US/China and Pakistan. No False Flag needed!

Originally posted by jcord
Instead of being sensational and stating "WAR! WAR! WAR!" be specific. What will China + Pakistan use to wage war? They have nothing unless they use nukes and why would they be suicidal right now as to use nukes on the US? What a load.

Be specific?

What more do you want than the trails of attacks by certain elements from Pakistan do you want? They support separatist groups in China, They have helped facilitate attacks in India, They support the Taliban over in Afghanistan what more specifics do you need?


Suicidal?

I'm sorry but certain extremist groups have proven themselves very "suicidal"

reply to post by BRITWARRIOR


I am inclined to believe they were either aiding Taliban or Haqqani. The outposts were hit by gunships and fixed wing aircraft. One of them was hit at least twice. That wasn't an accident. Something provoked NATO forces on the ground to call for that air support. I know in the past, Pakistani firebases have shelled Afghan forces across the border. That opens the possibility that the outposts were firebases and they shelled NATO forces. Either way the Pakistani troops potentially did something incredibly foolish.

This is what I predicted before

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why don't they just form alliances so at least NATO would have boundaries and not just do anything they like. Having a separate alliance would make them think twice before they do something stupid.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
You ever wonder what if?

-Warning highly speculative-

China and Pakistan together covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west, and on US and coalition forces in the wars that followed. and even in providing safe-haven for key leaders and figures in both groups, all while Pakistan played the role of an ally in the war on terrorism.

Everyone knows there was many things wrong with 9/11.... Well, what if?

Nah, it's too far fetched, to far out there to even go further on ATS with it.

Lets not go there, and just say we did, once upon a time.

China covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west? What a complete load of rubbish! I guess the next thing people will be saying is china is Al Qaeda lol You people should start thinking for yourselves and realise that your governments are playing you, playing all of us.

Originally posted by WinnieDaWho
This is what I predicted before

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why don't they just form alliances so at least NATO would have boundaries and not just do anything they like. Having a separate alliance would make them think twice before they do something stupid.

Those nation are already allied tho

Russia & China

China & North Korea

Russia & Iran

So yes Russia China Iran & North Korea are already allied, but you mean like a NATO type alliance right?

I doubt NATO/The West would worry to much or listen to them should they start barking orders & making demands tho, lets be honest they just wouldn't, the first threat would no doubt end up in another World War, which they would most definitely lose, i think thats probably the most likely out come should such a coalition form, the only reason they would form such a coalition would be to rival NATO and start pushing there weight around, to which i think its highly highly likely they would get a quick response to

Yeah i'm pretty sure tensions would be sky high, something would definitely come of that should it happen

Just my opinion based on what is & has gone on before in the past,

reply to post by metaldemon2000

So if an attack on Pakistan is an attack on china then NATO just attacked china.

Well China says so but they never went with it.

Pakistan has been asking (for years) that China signs a mutual defense treaty with Pakistan... and China has refused so far because they know the nutjobs run Pakistan.

China is not THAT crazy as to ally themselves 100% with Pakistan. They know Pakistan is very unstable.

reply to post by Jay-morris



I can't speak for Fractured but...

I doubt he was being serious and even if he was, why not question?
I mean this is a conspiracy site. Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box.

I mean, For years now we've seen threads here at ATS all day everyday declaring Isreal is going to attack Iran any second yet, we havent seen anything of the sort.

BUT ITS GOING TO HAPPEN!

someday.....

maybe...

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
You ever wonder what if?

-Warning highly speculative-

China and Pakistan together covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west, and on US and coalition forces in the wars that followed. and even in providing safe-haven for key leaders and figures in both groups, all while Pakistan played the role of an ally in the war on terrorism.

Everyone knows there was many things wrong with 9/11.... Well, what if?

Nah, it's too far fetched, to far out there to even go further on ATS with it.

Lets not go there, and just say we did, once upon a time.

China covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west? What a complete load of rubbish! I guess the next thing people will be saying is china is Al Qaeda lol You people should start thinking for yourselves and realise that your governments are playing you, playing all of us.

edit on 26-11-2011 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

Well i don't know, quite abit adds up here, don't you think?

Iran fund & aid the Taliban (arms) and also trains & fund Hezbullah to attack Israel,

Pakistan aids & funds the Taliban

Russia is close allies with Iran

China is close allies with all the above including north korea



Now we have our conspiracy to fight your conspiracy's/propaganda

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Well China says so but they never went with it.

Well, doesn't that lessen their credibility?

Pakistan has been asking (for years) that China signs a mutual defense treaty with Pakistan... and China has refused so far because they know the nutjobs run Pakistan.

I dunno, This whole threads premise and the subsquent follow up contributed replies have shown a complete opposite situation. It seems China is going joyfully down the same Rabbit hole as everybody else so far.

Pakistan's Government has ZERO credibility. PERIOD. I'm sure you'll agree on that.

China is not THAT crazy as to ally themselves 100% with Pakistan. They know Pakistan is very unstable.

I'll take your word on that for now.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Jay-morris

 

I can't speak for Fractured but...

I doubt he was being serious and even if he was, why not question?
I mean this is a conspiracy site. Nothing wrong with thinking outside the box.

I mean, For years now we've seen threads here at ATS all day everyday declaring Isreal is going to attack Iran any second yet, we havent seen anything of the sort.

BUT ITS GOING TO HAPPEN!

someday.....

maybe...

Well, this site is also here for peole like me to shut these fear proaganda people up, or at least tell them why they are wrong. Popele just want china to be bad, to be evil. Maybe because it makes them feel better about their own country going down the drain. Governments have a way of brainwashing their people to believe this and that about other countries, and the sad thing is, it works. Just like communism is evil and bad BS. At the end of te day, communism is not bad or evil, people are bad or evil..

Originally posted by BRITWARRIOR

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
You ever wonder what if?

-Warning highly speculative-

China and Pakistan together covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west, and on US and coalition forces in the wars that followed. and even in providing safe-haven for key leaders and figures in both groups, all while Pakistan played the role of an ally in the war on terrorism.

Everyone knows there was many things wrong with 9/11.... Well, what if?

Nah, it's too far fetched, to far out there to even go further on ATS with it.

Lets not go there, and just say we did, once upon a time.

China covertly aided Al Qaeda and the Taliban in orchestrating attacks on the west? What a complete load of rubbish! I guess the next thing people will be saying is china is Al Qaeda lol You people should start thinking for yourselves and realise that your governments are playing you, playing all of us.

edit on 26-11-2011 by Jay-morris because: (no reason given)

Well i don't know, quite abit adds up here, don't you think?

Iran fund & aid the Taliban (arms) and also trains & fund Hezbullah to attack Israel,

Pakistan aids & funds the Taliban

Russia is close allies with Iran

China is close allies with all the above including north korea



Now we have our conspiracy to fight your conspiracy's/propaganda

Yeah, so China are giving money to the same terrorists that have caused a few problems in China, including killings and bombings. Yeah, you have great logic there. Why don't the uk fund the IRA lol

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Well, this site is also here for peole like me to shut these fear proaganda people up, or at least tell them why they are wrong.

Who are you to shut them up?

People are allowed to speak their minds. Talk about Fear mongering. We see threads again, All Day Everyday about this impending attack on Iran which never happens.

I don't see you doing your self appointed job of defeating fear mongering in those threads now do I?

Popele just want china to be bad, to be evil. Maybe because it makes them feel better about their own country going down the drain.

OR

People are realizing that the US/West arent the only possible "Bad Guys" in the world. But you'll charge in to shut them up..Right?

Governments have a way of brainwashing their people to believe this and that about other countries, and the sad thing is, it works. Just like communism is evil and bad BS. At the end of te day, communism is not bad or evil, people are bad or evil..

Well tell that to all those people who died behind the Iron Curtain under Stalin or better yet Red China under Mao and ask them how they feel about the Communist way of life

Oh wait, you can't because they were shut up I mean killed by PEOPLE who were communists

Maybe i'm over thinking due to tiredness here, but hey thats what we do here right, over think on all sorts of subjects

So... the attack on pakistani troops & the recent US aircraft carrier "apparently" of the coast of Syria

Is it likely they was both aimed at testing Russia and Chinas word?

China stating any attack on Pakistan is an attack on China, & Russia pretty much stating the same about Syria

Both of those statements have been tested in the past 24hours,

reply to post by SLAYER69

Well, doesn't that lesson their credibility?

Well it was just something they were saying at a press conference to be buddies with Pakistan. To look good.

Pakistan's Government has ZERO credibility. PERIOD. I'm sure you'll agree on that.

Totally.

It seems China is going joyfully down the same Rabbit hole as everybody else so far.

Well China needs Pakistan to ``contain`` India... so that India doesn't put all it's military on China's side.

But China hasn't put into a treaty the mutual defense agreement. They ``like`` Pakistan but not that much. China is building nuclear power plants in Pakistan after all and giving them weapons... but putting their lives on the line for Pakistan? I don't think so.

The only country China ever put their lives on the line for was North Korea because of their ``communist brotherhood`` and North Korea as a buffer state.

They don't need to put their lives on the line for Pakistan, Pakistan can take care of themselves, they have nukes. Not to mention, Pakistan, like India and Iran, have been ``observing`` members of the SCO for a while now and not been made FULL MEMBERS... so if there's ever ANY ``mutual defense`` it won't be between China and Pakistan, it will be between Pakistan and the SCO.

And to be a full member of the SCO, Pakistan and India need to solve their differences, so it's gonna be a long time before that happens...

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Yeah, so China are giving money to the same terrorists that have caused a few problems in China, including killings and bombings. Yeah, you have great logic there. Why don't the uk fund the IRA lol

Puts on his tinfoil hat....

OR

Maybe they are going to take advantage of the situation to gain some level of influence in that region of the world and are looking out for their best interests which the US/West are doing as well?

It is a possibility you know.

Stranger things have happened.

reply to post by Jay-morris


The same could be said about what you are posting here, from an opposing perspective.

It is all a matter of perspective, and ultimately where you perceive good exists and where evil is, and of course where your personal loyalties favor best.

China is very good at nearly everything they do, and with Pakistan any relations have always only been contingent upon what China alone can gain from any such relations.

I believe China has been (at times) so deeply involved with Pakistan, both overtly and covertly that it makes anything possible.

It's my opinion, no better or worse than yours.

So the reason why I find this very interesting is because these guys are coming out of Pakistan it seems trying to seperate China.

While that, i've always thought that Maoists in India were sent by China.

So it seems that what is happening in China is very much what they themselves MIGHT have been trying to do to India for a while.
There are disputed lands in India that China wants, and in google china maps they even claim it to be their own despite it being in dispute.

Well we already know what ground troops Indian vs. Pakistan would look like


But what would China vs. Pak look like?
Slayer, I know there's an image in your head you are thinking of creating RIGHT NOWWWW

reply to post by SLAYER69


China and Pakistan have recently held joint war games.
But they seem to have been planned long ago and are the fourth of their type since 2006.
However, China is still suspicious of Pakistan and where it's true loyalty lies.

On the face of it China - India relations are strained and they are both suspicious of each other.
But there is mutual ground and common purpose on a number of issues and they both want to significantly increase trade with each other.
globalspin.blogs.time.com...
They have also quietely agreed to settle their border disputes peacefully.
In addition China and India have scheduled joint war maneuvers within the LAC for early 2012.

The only thing I'm certain of is that China always put's China first and foremost and they are quite prepared to play the long game.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Who are you to shut them up?

People are allowed to speak their minds. Talk about Fear mongering. We see threads again, All Day Everyday about this impending attack on Iran which never happens.

I don't see you doing your self appointed job of defeating fear mongering in those threads now do I?

Ok, shutting them up is a word i should no have used. At the end of the day, when you have people saying all this stuff, then you need people to question it. Thats one of the things this, and other boards do. And alot of it is fear mongering, and mainly coming from people who don't have a clue and only post once in a thread.

Because this is a board where we all have free speech, does not mean im going to sit here and not question it when i think it is BS and fear propaganda.

OR

People are realizing that the US/West arent the only possible "Bad Guys" in the world. But you'll charge in to shut them up..Right?

No, because most of the people i debate with on here leave the thread when they can't answer my questions. Their are bad guys in every corner of the world, in every country and every government. But alot of people focus on what other countries do, rather than their own countries bad doings. Oh, and i said most people, not all.

Well tell that to all those people who died behind the Iron Curtain under Stalin or better yet Red China under Mao and ask them how they feel about the Communist way of life

Oh wait, you can't because they were shut up I mean killed by PEOPLE who were communists

No, people , leader, whatever killed them people, not commusism. Thats what people just can't see. They have been brainwashed at such a young age that they just go with the flow and say communism is evil. All governments are capable of terrible things, and thats because of the people running or in charge of these governments.

Originally posted by Jay-morris
Well, this site is also here for peole like me to shut these fear proaganda people up, or at least tell them why they are wrong. Popele just want china to be bad, to be evil. Maybe because it makes them feel better about their own country going down the drain. Governments have a way of brainwashing their people to believe this and that about other countries, and the sad thing is, it works. Just like communism is evil and bad BS. At the end of te day, communism is not bad or evil, people are bad or evil..

I want to get on with the discussion and debate at hand that Slayer has presented but feel the need to address this and your other quips you have provided us Jay:

You do know you are getting pissed off and angry over someone who gave a clear disclaimer that what they were saying was "highly speculative" right? Then for some reason you have since then gone on a crusade to "shut these fear propaganda people up" and "tell them why they are wrong. (though you haven't done the latter and only have worked on shouting down speculation and opposing opinion and thought).

Sadly, you couldn't refute or discuss why they were wrong and possibly fold such discussion into this topic. The geo-political scene is not some clear black n' white chalk board or Risk board game where the lines and armies are clearly defined.

Back room deals, arms pacts, defensive pacts, treaties; we know only the surface and what ever happens to either be pushed out for propaganda purposes or is leaked out (most likely intentionally). There really is no way to know if China was or wasn't involved -- hence the highly speculative disclaimer made before the poster went down the rabbit-hole.

Also, sticking your head in the sand about the known atrocities that take place under Communist rule shows a very naive understanding of the world and history. While you are correct that it was the leaders of those nations that were the ultimate evil, their evil was facilitated by the Iron Fist of Communist rule.

Do you think if the People of North Korea were able to speak freely, the press was able to report what they saw, and the People were able to make their own choices would still live in such destitute and oppressiveness? Kim Jung Ill maybe the leader oppressing but it is only facilitated by the structure of his Government.

----

Okay, I strayed a bit. Now to follow some links and read up on some fun United China-Stan threesome.