Police officer pepper-sprays seated, non-violent students at UC Davis

On monday the news will say officer John Pike will be suspended.

so what he did was wrong....and the police are not saying it was because they were blocking the sidewalk but rather the police officers said they were surrounded and needed to get out which video and photographic evidence has proven not true.

The police are making themselves the enemy, it is sad some of you are defending this.

Originally posted by Vaxar
What if elderly people had to walk along that footpath and could not walk on the lumpy grass incase they fell???


Block public space and be expected to be removed simple as that.

You know, somehow I feel like the protesters would let the elderly through. You're just coming up with excuses. I mean, did you see the video where the protesters created a massive silent path for the Chancellor to walk through? They have the ability to move, and will voluntarily do so. The police were telling them they had no choice and that they had to disperse or else.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Riffrafter

Originally posted by poundpuppy
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Many FAIL to realize that the FAILURE to comply with a police order or request to disperse is probably what brought this on.

I do not agree with it per say but I really find it hard to have empathy nor sympathy for those who FAIL to respond to a verbal order to disperse in a non violent way.

For the 100th time - then the students should have been ARRESTED. Not ASSAULTED.

What part of that don't you get?

This is not assault.
Please show me the Law stating that use of pepper spray by LEO and the Department during non compliance is such.

Did you actually watch the video?!?

Are you actually trying to defend the actions of that cop?



Really?

LMAO....

reply to post by Riffrafter


Was there an order to disperse?

Originally posted by poundpuppy
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

Many FAIL to realize that the FAILURE to comply with a police order or request to disperse is probably what brought this on.

I do not agree with it per say but I really find it hard to have empathy nor sympathy for those who FAIL to respond to a verbal order to disperse in a non violent way.

Maybe we fail to realize that because our founding fathers told us we have the right to peacefully assemble. Maybe until we get the batons smashed against our faces, we didn't realize we allowed that precious right to be eroded to meaninglessness through reinterpretation in court cases and myriads of smaller laws that we allowed to take precedence. So one day we wake up and realize our first amendment right is stripped of all meaning and power and a majority of our citizens are perfectly fine with that because it means less inconvenience to them.

I think the founding fathers would be disgusted to see we have got to the point we think it's perfectly normal for armed thugs to order us about when we are doing nothing more than standing or sitting and they tell us to move just because they can. They have gotten us so cowed that we believe they have the right to violently assault us when we present no physical threat.

I have an idea. Why not let those students sit there and peacefully exercise their first amendment rights? If they start littering or trashing the place, impose the approriate fines or punishment for that. But otherwise, why not let them go about their protest and show America is still what we purport it to be. Or is patriotism only now safely limited to flying small flags on the fourth of July? I was a student once and have seen more disruption and assembling on days everyone was out on the lawns studying for finals before summer break. Nevermind how crazy it gets when we would amp up for sporting events.

Hahah

I love how Americans always view their nation to be morally superior to anyone else and entertain the notion they are by any decent standard a free society..

You know what would happen if this was in the UK? Italy.. ? France....... ? Eastern Europe......... ?

Really, US protests are like pony shows, where the protesters are allowed to hold up signs and repeat slogans surrounded by a battalion of Gestapo style black uniformed policemen. And even then, your people ridicule them and call them "worthless hippies" with "no cause". A bunch of kids sitting on a bench get pepper sprayed, surrounded by a bunch of insecure petty power junkies in black uniforms with batons.. Nazi Germany, anyone?

The most perverted thing is people actually GET OFF on fascism now.. they love it..

Congratulations, you have been completely domesticated

See you in hell..

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

Was there an order to disperse?

It doesn't matter. If the police issues an order to disperse and the protesters simply sat there quietly (which is EXACTLY what they did) then the police could or should have ARRESTED them.

Explain why that idiot need to pepper spray them?

Does he not know how to perform a simple arrest?!?

If not - he has NO BUSINESS BEING A COP.

Why do people continue to try and defend the indefensible?

It boggles the mind....

reply to post by SheeplFlavoredAgain


I think the Founders would be disgusted with both sides at this point.

The main thought is that while people can protest all day long, be prepared to suffer the rewards or consequences that come with it.

reply to post by Riffrafter


Yes, it does matter.
Order of disperse was given.

The LEOs decided not to go hands on with people that out number them.

They used the approved use of force as defined by the department, and approved by the City Officials.

It is not assault.
No matter how much you want it to be or how hard you stamp your feet.

reply to post by macman


How about WRONG? Can it be WRONG, please? Will it be wrong if I stomp my feet enough?

Everything the Nazis did was absolutely legal.. so excuse me if I don't have much respect for the notion of "legally" just..

reply to post by macman


I think they would be proud of those kids and wonder why the rest of us are letting this happen or even saying it is right to happen, and good on the police. I see your point. I always teach my own kid that actions have consequences. I do believe in law and order. But I also now realize we've let too many laws get on the books that have eaten away our most fundamemtal and basic rights. I know from having my middle aged harmless law abiding housewife self harassed by police for just walking my dog in a neighborhood where my olive toned skin looked out of place, that we really don't have any rights at all if a policeman tells us we don't. There's a little numbered law somewhere we can be cited in violation thereof.

reply to post by Thaxter


Thanks for posting that for us. Here's my e-mail:

As I'm sure you've already been made aware of, a police officer recently peppersprayed a group of college students who posed absolutely no threat whatsoever to the police or the other protesters. Here is a link to the video of this event: www.youtube.com...


Whether or not he was giving orders that the students did not obey, that does not warrant the use of of pepperspray on nonviolent protesters. The First Amendment protects the right to peaceful assembly, and everything about this protest was peaceful, other than the actions of the police themselves.


According to California state law, the actions of this police officer were against the law, and he should be punished accordingly. Police officers are not above the law that they enforce, so this man should face the consequences. Here is the law that I am referring to:


California Penal Code Section 12403.7 (a) (8) (g) Any person who uses tear gas or tear gas weapons except in self-defense is guilty of a public offense and is punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months, or two or three years or in a county jail not to exceed one year or by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment, except that, if the use is against a peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2, engaged in the performance of his or her official duties and the person committing the offense knows or reasonably should know that the victim is a peace officer, the offense is punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for 16 months or two or three years or by a fine of one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.


Source: law.onecle.com...

Whoops, I typed "of" twice in a row in the second paragraph....oh well.

Originally posted by falseveils
reply to post by macman

 

How about WRONG? Can it be WRONG, please? Will it be wrong if I stomp my feet enough?

Everything the Nazis did was absolutely legal.. so excuse me if I don't have much respect for the notion of "legally" just..

We are not talking about wrong. We are talking about legal, in the US.
Nazi Germany has nothing to do with this.
If you wish to apply this, please look to who, at the end of the day, is in charge of the laws written and policy approvals to the area. I believe this area to be a Democratic stronghold.

Originally posted by SheeplFlavoredAgain
reply to post by macman

 

I think they would be proud of those kids and wonder why the rest of us are letting this happen or even saying it is right to happen, and good on the police. I see your point. I always teach my own kid that actions have consequences. I do believe in law and order. But I also now realize we've let too many laws get on the books that have eaten away our most fundamemtal and basic rights. I know from having my middle aged harmless law abiding housewife self harassed by police for just walking my dog in a neighborhood where my olive toned skin looked out of place, that we really don't have any rights at all if a policeman tells us we don't. There's a little numbered law somewhere we can be cited in violation thereof.

edit on 20-11-2011 by SheeplFlavoredAgain because: Typo

I agree.
I am not in any way suggesting that people do or don't protest. Their right to peaceably assemble.
Lawful order to disperse is just that.
If you wish to go against the machine, do not cry when it does what it is there to do.

Originally posted by macman
I agree.
I am not in any way suggesting that people do or don't protest. Their right to peaceably assemble.
Lawful order to disperse is just that.
If you wish to go against the machine, do not cry when it does what it is there to do.

I agree that there are consequences to disobeying the system, but sometimes disorder is necessary to bring attention to the disease and corruption that permeates the country. It will always be ok until you are the one being persecuted, and currently with the Patriot act, we can do exactly what China does. The US has the power to arrest you under secret charges and never give you a hearing.

reply to post by TupacShakur


While I applaud your efforts, this does not apply to the use of force as defined by the Department.

Originally posted by FrenchOsage
"This is perfectly legal. "
It's immoral. That trumps "law". That principle is why we fought the Revolutionary War. The actions of the Nazi's tried and hung at Nuremberg were "legal". That proved to not be a very convincing argument.

Hey, brother... Actually, "legal" and "lawful" mean two very different things. Real substantive law is observable all around you. Things like gravity, cause and effect, the conservation of angular momentum, what you resist, persists. I totally agree with "legal" equating to "bull feces", but the word "law" deserves more respect than the word "statute" or "ordinance", because those are what is being referred to as the authority, not Law, when the word "legal" is used, especially when in support of an action most people would call "immoral".

reply to post by Varemia


There is no disagreement on my part.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Riffrafter

 

Yes, it does matter.
Order of disperse was given.

The LEOs decided not to go hands on with people that out number them.

They used the approved use of force as defined by the department, and approved by the City Officials.

It is not assault.
No matter how much you want it to be or how hard you stamp your feet.

LOL - you keep telling yourself that.

In the meantime - let's see what the fallout from this is to the cop, the department, and the school.

Then we can re-group in a week or so and see who's right.

Fair enough?

reply to post by Riffrafter


Ok then. Sure sure.
Fallout is mob rule.

The fact that many will look past that the local law states this as LAWFUL, speaks volumes.
The Police action is not unlawful.
No matter how much the students march and chant.

If they or you want this changed, time to look towards the beloved Democrat Politicians in charge for that area.