Military training and it's effect on humans

reply to post by Raivan31


Ah, I see you have never given yourself to a higher calling? or service? 8 years and I still have the friends I made in Elementary School. The military will only make you a bigger boy, and give you structure beyond what you already knew if you had it. I spend loads of time with my friends and family. I barely stay in touch with my military cohorts. 3 to be exact. I really don't understand why you feel swept under the rug, being in the military means a tough schedule where a soldier only has time to call his family. When in a theater of operations, we can't stop amidst a conflict and call my childhood best friend or mother cause someone shot at you or that you lost 5 friends that day. We look to the man next to each other, and fight for one another. Bring each other up when we are down. So yes you can say we are a different breed. To go where others fear to go, and to do what others will not do.

29INFDIV

Originally posted by canoland

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Military service and law enforcement attract a specific personality type. I don't think it's fair to label all military servicemen and women as you did, but I do agree that a large portion of them buy into that cult mentality.

Not true at all. The cult mentality barely exists in the military. We just have respect for each other and would trust one another over someone who has not experienced the same things we have.

This isn't what I witnessed in my 4 years in the U.S Army Reserves, but I suppose everyone has a different experience.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Military service and law enforcement attract a specific personality type. I don't think it's fair to label all military servicemen and women as you did, but I do agree that a large portion of them buy into that cult mentality.

No more so then people that join PETA, Straight edgers or any other group.

I agree, and it should be common sense in this day and age, but alas humanity is imperfect.

Originally posted by DocEmrick

Originally posted by canoland

Originally posted by DocEmrick
Military service and law enforcement attract a specific personality type. I don't think it's fair to label all military servicemen and women as you did, but I do agree that a large portion of them buy into that cult mentality.

Not true at all. The cult mentality barely exists in the military. We just have respect for each other and would trust one another over someone who has not experienced the same things we have.

This isn't what I witnessed in my 4 years in the U.S Army Reserves, but I suppose everyone has a different experience.

Personally, I have never witnessed this cult behavior. I work/live on a joint base. Air Force/Navy. I don't see it at all here. If anything, the people I work with in maintenance don't like each other at all haha.

So we're all a bunch of smug, superior, holier-than-thou indoctrinated cold-blooded killers, is that it? We judge anyone who chooses a different path in life and consider ourselves to be better than you?

Seriously, take a good, long look in the mirror.

I've been around military folks for most of my life, and this idea of being 'indoctrinated' by boot camp is laughable BS. On the social spectrum, military members honestly don't differ that much from the rest of the population (except when it comes to things like physical fitness). I've met some of the most principled and caring people I've ever known in the military. Then again I've also met plenty of civilians like that too. I've also met some of the guys who just want to kill 'towel-heads for 'murica'. Guess what? That's why they joined. They weren't indoctrinated, they already had that kind of screwed-up mindset beforehand.

But yes, when it comes down to it, our job is in fact to kill people and break things. I hate using movie quotes, but "you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall" - different context, but it still applies. I'm all for peace, just as any sane human being is.

But guess what? People try to kill each other to take each others' stuff. They always have, and always will. This idea of peace without having some method of defense is laughably naive. That's why we have a military (and really why we have a federal government); common defense of life and property. A lot of what we're doing IMO is not for the common defense of our people, but the solution to that is actually voting people into office that care so we can stop the perpetual motion of the military-industrial complex.

Point is - and I'm not a religious man - "judge not lest ye be judged".

Originally posted by CaptainIraq

But yes, when it comes down to it, our job is in fact to kill people and break things. I hate using movie quotes, but "you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall" - different context, but it still applies. I'm all for peace, just as any sane human being is.

Our job is not to kill people. What branch were you in?

reply to post by CaptainIraq


Your job is to kill people and break things? Who are you...the Hulk? All joking aside, it is really terrible that you feel your job description is to kill people. I would hope that you would avoid that at all costs unless it was absolutely necessary. Those "people" you speak of are human beings. I'm sure that there are situations where it's kill or be killed, but when you start to think that your job is to kill people, it's probably time to seek some therapy.

reply to post by Raivan31


I agree with you on many of your points. I am ex-military and so are all of my friends, I wouldn't say we think we are better but their is a difference after training and after war. I see it this way (this is the way I see it and is not neccesarily right) we are trained and sent to war, are friends and family stay behind. These people represent the civilian population to us, it is are referrence in which we gauge the "WORLD." Now when the people get mad because the war is wrong or un-just , or just plain sucks as most wars do, the people will lash out and for the most part it is the soldier who is stuck in the line of fire. For example the people of OWS I believe are attacking
the wrong people, they are attacking the end product of a bad system that generated from corrupt Government.
But it is easier to attack wall street and banks than to face the real problem creator. The same applies with the Government and soldiers, the people tend to take an easier route and go after the man that pulls the trigger.
I sat in Iraq waiting for the people to demand that the Government to end the war and they let me down. I came home to things like, " why did you go" and, " how come you obeyed and went " ect. When you go into the military you are forfieting some of your own personal rights, and you are hoping that the civilians of the good ol U.S.A. will have your back but human nature prevails. I would say to anyone out there, if you yourself did not do everything in your power to end these wars, than do not be so quick to judge us please.

P.S. Good post I hope I gave a little bit of inside mind set for us Joe's, of course I do not speak for all
so don't lump us all into the same bunch please.

to the OP: the same can be said for any person that achieves outside their peer group. Get a degree, an advanced degree, become good at something, pass a milestone in your life and if your peers are unable or unwilling to do the same you change peer groups.

Has exactly 0 to do with "military training" and more to do with achievement.

reply to post by stephanies-chase


So what do we do in the case of national defense? Use strong words? No. We use force to counter the initiation of force by an aggressor.

To clarify, our end goal is not to kill, but to protect. That being said, it does not mean that we seek out people we don't like and kill them (which is what we're doing now). If attacked, it is literally our job description to use force, and if necessary kill, the attackers and break the stuff they attacked us with. That's always been the role of the warriors in any society.

Originally posted by BIGPoJo
reply to post by Raivan31

 

Lets take a real look at why service men think they are "better" than their "civy" friends, its because they are. They are making a sacrifice while their civy friends are making pizza. They can run forever while their civy friends are stuck on the couch. They play real war games while their civy friends play XBOX. They risk their lives while their civy friends risk nothing. They are in athletic shape while their civy friends are in a pear shape. Better indeed.

EDIT - Watch this war propaganda to educate yourself about servicemen.

edit on 15-11-2011 by BIGPoJo because: (no reason given)

do you think
Crayola knows
that soldiers are making
radios out of their crayons

Originally posted by stephanies-chase
reply to post by CaptainIraq

 

Your job is to kill people and break things? Who are you...the Hulk? All joking aside, it is really terrible that you feel your job description is to kill people. I would hope that you would avoid that at all costs unless it was absolutely necessary. Those "people" you speak of are human beings. I'm sure that there are situations where it's kill or be killed, but when you start to think that your job is to kill people, it's probably time to seek some therapy.

"to close with the enemy by means of fire and maneuver to defeat or capture him, to repel his assault by fire, close combat, or counterattack" FM 3-21.8

Originally posted by Hootsmanwheresmaheid
reply to post by ILikeStars

 

Im telling the truth, plain and simple. Sometimes it hurts i know but it has to be said. Look! this comment was made many years ago and it still stands true today........

"Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy." Henry Kissinger

I'm not sure I believe Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein about this particular quote. Allegedly this quote from Kissinger was said back in 1973 to Haig in his new office after his promotion to White House chief of staff. This quote was attributed to Kissinger in Bob Woodward & Carl Bernstein's book The Final Days, written/published 21 years later in 1994.

Alexander Haig denied Kissinger ever said that to him. Kissinger himself did not deny saying, but also did not say he said it. Kissinger had a "no comment" attitude towards the quote.

“Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are people who want crops without ploughing the ground; they want rain without thunder and lightning; they want the ocean without the roar of its many waters. The struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, or it may be both. But it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.”
― Frederick Douglass

Originally posted by Welshy77
reply to post by ILikeStars

 

What price does someone have to pay, for that education?

Depends how much experience they want. How much they want or need to know before acting upon actionable intelligence. It depends upon how much on job training (OJT) they want or are compelled to strive for and push themselves to gain.

Price? Sometimes cost is not monetary. Sometimes payment is not monetary either. Cost is a subjective consequence, a collateral renovation.

I was active duty for 11 years. I was trained to the level of Assistant Chief of Fire Protection (Fire Officer III, Fire Instructor II, Fire Inspector II, Haz Mat Incident Commander, Emergency Medical Technician (EMT-I) National Registry, Airport Rescue, and the list goes on. In the civilian sector my experience translates into about $110,000 annually. The state of Illinois pays for all my college since I am a veteran of a foreign wars. And my pension/retirement checks are $3,000 a month for life, not to mention full medical coverage for life.

What is the price for that education? Ask the smart civilian tax payers who pay for that education.

Thank you, btw.

reply to post by spoonbender


Actually we use MRE spoons to make radios.

“You can make a field expedient antenna by taking copper wire and splicing the ends,” said Lance Cpl. Randy R. Groves, the senior radio operator with Alpha Company, 1/1. “Take a MRE spoon poke a hole into it and combine it with 550 cord and the wire and hang the field expedient antenna in anything not conductive to electricity. Before you know it you are back in business communicating with higher. As far as field radios go, it’s actually the best antenna we have in the Marine Corps and it can reach the farthest as far as signal goes.”

SOURCE

I agree with the OP. I used to work with a great friend/programmer. For some reason he really wanted to complete the military training. Even though he screwed up his knee to the point of surgery he completed it and was a different person since.
In everyday situations he'd tell me stuff like how he would love to go to africa and kill some black people.
In time we grew apart. I couldn't cope with his view on the world anymore.

Originally posted by Raivan31
I've known a few people in the defense force and there is one thing that i've noticed that comes around to bite me in the ass every time.
I don't know of a solution to this, and i don't really know where i'm going with this. all i know is that i'm sick of saying goodbye to people i care about.

You do your utmost to make sure people dont join the armed forces.
Absolutely no need for it.

If somebody wants to learn self defense, plenty of private courses available to learn
combat/martial arts and weapons training.

US Army Basic training is designed in three parts.
Red White and Blue, at least thats the way it was back in the 20th century.
Tons of psychology has gone into it.

Fist part is to break down the person,
The second part is to mold them,
The third part is to make them proud about what they have been molded into.

Of course, going through the hardship of training, you start bonding with the people you are training with.
Thats when you start seeing this, "us vs them" type of mentality to form.

Not to forget that most people join the armed forces when they are still mentally and physically growing.
An easy age to for manipulating the mind and body.

Governments/regimes tend to like their soldiers young.
They dont call it INFANTtry for nothing.

When I see a military man, all that I can see is a man without principles who can't think for himself.

They say they're serving their country and yet they serve enemies of the people.

They commonly express that they're not appreciated. They're right. They're not.

It's alright though, at least their leaders appreciate them...

Military men are dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns for foreign policy - Henry Kisssinger

...oh wait, they don't.

Military men show their true colors when confronted with the truth about how they are cancer within our species. Yes, countries need a military for defense but that's not what countries like America use their military for.

The funniest and saddest thing of all is how proud some military men are. Well done, soldier. You took the bait and served another mans purpose without scrutiny. Who cares if you serve institutions that are destroying humanity, right? You're just a dumb stupid animal being used as a pawn for foreign policy, right?

This is freakin hilarious seeing a bunch of people talk about life and ways of the military that have no idea what they are talking about.

Seriously ... 90% of you have no idea what your talking about.

A death cult ....... that actually made me spit my mountain dew out when i saw that i laughed so hard.

Our job as military men are to kill and suppress any and all enemies foreign and domestic. Any one tells you different , then they are in denial.

I rather enjoy my job.

Killing a human being that wants you dead is wrong? What makes you so high and mighty? If you threaten my way of life .... ill kill you before you can kill me , or id at least try.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

O and the guy above me. If you are having to defend your country. Then you did something wrong. You need to study military history because you are one of the ones that have no idea whats coming out of your mouth.

The best defence is an offense because you dont want to defend , because if you are defending then that means your losing in war. You want the enemy defending.

... and you are obviously a dumb stupid animal for making most of the ignorant statements that you just made.

I endured two years of military academy (grades 9-10) and basic training (non-USA) and I can say this, it had no real effect on my personality. None, I don't think I'm special. I endured a lot of exercise and humiliation, but I have civilian friends who are triathletes who can switch off their brain and run a marathon, swim two miles, and bike a 120 miles and they haven't ever been near a military base.

I have friends that are civilians with no police or military training that are far better shots, long gun and CQB than many people I have been in contact with that are members of elite cadres.

If you think your a bad ass because you got off the Island with your Globe and Anchor wait till someone is shooting at you. Everyone is a bad ass till the bullets start flying then your a scared pussy like everyone else. Sure, there are many brave men and women out there, but I don't know if the 'training' really has that much effect.

In my opinion, if you are *snip* coward when you join the USMC, Army, Navy, whatever, then you'll be a *snip* coward when you graduate boot, you'll just be a fitter *snip* with a shaved head.