Military training and it's effect on humans, page 7

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 07:49 AM

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reply to post by NAeagle89

but unless you have signed the dotted line and been through actual combat or live combat training than you have no place to talk.

agreed.
i'm only giving my observations on the matter, and i hope i havn't disrespected them or anyone for that matter
.
im sure if i served, i would think and feel that im "better" or at least "different" than civilians, it's human nature.

StopFearMongering

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 07:50 AM

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reply to post by Raivan31

I have tons of family in the military and if any of them come out thinking they're of "a different breed" well it's probably because they are. Especially if they are Marines. You get stuck in gas chambers without masks to know how tear gas feels, you get physically and mentally abused every day, and all the while you're doing it with other people who are going through the exact same thing.

My aunt works in the military as a linguistics expert and she works with civilians who get paid more than her. I can't blame her in the slightest if she harbors some resentment. But most of the time people who come out of the military are hardworking and honorable people.

Dr Cosma

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 07:53 AM

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I like your post, but don't put all the eggs in one basket.
My best friend is a french foreign legionaire, he's been through some tough training and brainwashing.
He's russian. Never see's his family. He's been here to my house a few times and when he did, not only did he meet all my family where I'm living atm, he was educated, polite and helped with the dishes for example even though he didn't have to.
Now this guy who's in south america in some jungle at the moment, who hardly sees his family, maybe like once a year, who's been through some tough training and brainwashing, rings me up and tells me he can't wait to come to mine so he can spend some time with my family. He doesn't think he's better than anyone else, he has a big heart.
And he can't wait to return to civvy life.
Don't get me wrong, he loves all the training and all that stuff, but he'd rather be a civvy.
My grandad was in the British army 23 years. You can't tell he was ever in the army.

They're not the kind of monsters you make them out to be.

My point is that it's also the individual. I could've been in the army also but I chose not to.

edit on 16-11-2011 by Dr Cosma because: (no reason given)

jerico65

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 07:59 AM

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Originally posted by Raivan31
in the year after they finish their basic they become different people, out of touch with their basic humanity and convinced that they are a different breed. Convinced that they are better then the civilian population. Colder.

It's because we are better. Next question.

Originally posted by Raivan31
They sever relationships with their 'Civy' friends, convinced that they have become better as people when the reality is that they are merely brainwashed into thinking that they are now part of some kind of brotherhood, some kind of elite group that has an excuse to shed their basic humanity. They develop and 'us' and 'them' mentality and it strips them of their humanity. They think they are so tough and capable but really they are just moulded into a part of a machine, completely replaceable and disposable.

Ah, the ol' "Brainwashed" comment. Tried and true, it always comes out in discussions like this. Sorry, Gus, it don't fly. It's not brainwashing, it's discipline.

And yes, we are a brotherhood. Unless you've been thru that all, you'll never understand.

Originally posted by Raivan31
They distance themselves from anything 'Civvy' including friends and family that has always been there for them. They are institutionalised to believe that their new 'pack' cares more about them and understands them better then their old friends, the people that genuinely love them. They are wiped clean and reprogrammed to be a good little soldier that follows the bouncing ball and doesn't question the world around them. They are convinced into thinking that their new 'Family' is more real and stable then the one they left back in useless 'Civvy' land.

Because civilians are useless in a military environment. Sorry about that. And see above about brotherhood.

Originally posted by Raivan31[/i
Then they get deployed to a war zone and they witness hell. They are humans like the rest of us so they sometimes break and when they do they are suddenly far less important and valuable to their new 'Family' they have no one left to turn to because they've severed ties with the people who really care and then they are left to wither and die, incapable of real independance because they've been so heavily indoctrined to rely on the 'pack'.

Opps, wrong again. Seems to be happening alot in this thread. The best support system is fellow military members, especially guys in the same unit. Common experiences and they can always throw the BS flag if you're sinking too deep. Yeah, the system sucked in the past, but it's getting better. And I'd rather have a beer with guys in my squadron and complain about what I saw than have some scumbag civilian whine about PTSD and call me and my friends baby-killers or murderers.

Originally posted by Raivan31
I'm sick of being the victim of this s&%t time and time again. giving of myself freely in a genuine attempt to form a strong and loving bond and then being discarded because i'm just another useless 'civvy' that doesn't understand. I understand, i understand only too well. and i'm sick of seeing beautiful and unique people allowing themselves to be wiped clean and reprogrammed to be a good little bit of cannon fodder, to lose their true individuality and become cogs in a heartless machine that lies to them and makes them believe they are better off.

Geez, once again, squawking about reprogramming and brainwashing.
Since you've never been in the service, you don't have a clue and are way out of your lane. Try winding in your neck a bit.

Originally posted by Raivan31
After a few years of service most people (because thats what they are, 'people', 'humans' like the rest of us) come good again. they start to remember that they are actually a part of human society and not seperated from it. Others die or are disabled and discover all too quick just how 'important' their new families think they are.

Never been around the Wounded Warrior project any, have you?

YouSir

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by wWizard
Is this a joke? Or are the majority of you just delusional? The checklist posted by muzzleflash is so far out of line with the military that it's insulting. Hell yes service members act cold when they come back from basic, they spend months without communicating with anyone from their life besides maybe two people who may have sent them a letter or something. Give me a break. Hell yes service members act closer with each other than their friends at home. Are you daft? They went through hell together, got in trouble together, and would probably do just about anything for each other. The "cult checklist" is ridiculous. They are encouraged to only speak with certain people? They are actually encouraged to get their families involved with their units and what they are doing on a day-to-day basis.

I could go through every point made on that "checklist" and show you guys just how far off base you are. I couldn't even read through the entire first page of replies because I was so angered by those of you who would so easily disrespect service members that would fight for you WHETHER YOU SUPPORT THEM OR NOT! NO QUESTIONS ASKED!

Ummmmmmm........YOU DONT FIGHT FOR US......you fight for the current schmuck in the white house...for his friends, cronies, fellows.....you go wherever they point THEIR fingers......not where we point ours...
You fight for government policy......not some altruistic ideal, "for the greater good"......You go through hell because it's what you signed on for...remember...you ENLISTED....you CHOSE to be where you were sent......you CHOSE hell.....
The "cult checklist" is "spot on mate".......take off the shades and open your mind.....You see.....I "been there...done that"......The military is all about indoctrination....it's pounded into your head 24/7......you are taught that your elite....the "best of the best"...to "be all you can be"...K.I.S.S......T.M.I.....train to ingrain...yada, yada, yada....
Your families are also "indoctrinated" into the "culture"......brought on board.....acclimated...............

wake the F@%$...up......soldier.............your a cog...

YouSir

sapien82

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by steveknows

Gaurding us from who exactly , where are all these people that wish to harm us that we actually require an army to be there should we suddenly be invaded ?

Where ?

Oh right they are insurance in case # happens !
oh I see , well since the invention of ICBM's the west technically dont need standing armies , they are just used for show of force and in case they need to send people in to steal #

sapien82

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by Dr Cosma

the reason most of them cant wait to come back is because they realise the serious and epic mistakes they made by signing up and realise they are fighting in some hellish illegal conflict somewhere and dont want to be there any more than we do !
So they want to come back to normality away from all the death and destruction and depleted uranium

Dr Cosma

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by sapien82

the reason most of them cant wait to come back is because they realise the serious and epic mistakes they made by signing up and realise they are fighting in some hellish illegal conflict somewhere and dont want to be there any more than we do ! So they want to come back to normality away from all the death and destruction and depleted uranium

Err no.
The reason is he's finishing his contract, but most of all he found a nice girl and you know really who the bosses are.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. He hasn't been around depleted uranuim or death and destruction or an illegal hellish conflict.

So sorry but you're wrong.

sapien82

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by jerico65

You dont need to join the military to have discipline , good parenting does this !
you arent better in any way except we think twice about killing people
you do it without losing a heart beat !

so how does that make you better than me ,
oh you have more physical stamina , regular exercise does that
you can make camps and survive in different climates,
yeh reading books and going camping does that

basically anything you can do in the military anyone else can do by reading
relevant source material to a point where basic understanding comes into play.

The only difference between me and you is you kill people because your told to
and you get paid for it , and you dont care about the consequences of your actions

Where as everyone else in society who choses not to enlist , has made the conscious choice
that they dont want to kill people for money because they are told to !

you are no better than us , your worse, your paid to kill for profit , your worse than a wall st banker
or a CEO of a corporation , because you kill for others to enforce these corrupt officials
and shady corporations . Your not defending us , your against us , and yes you have been brainwashed so
that you dont realise it either !

sapien82

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:13 AM
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reply to post by Dr Cosma

Good for him he got out easy then wouldnt you agree?

most if not all of US troops see combat now dont they since they are currently fighting in 5 theatres
most likely the same with UK troops

sapien82

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:16 AM
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Id also add that the US , as I have said before has become a facist empire , because
they enforce military action and use it as a nationalist identity that everyone in america can get behind
they force propaganda that war is good for the US , they have a police state.

Patriotism through military action and engagement of war to enforce national identity .

read it up on the defintion of facism ! the 3rd reich died , but the 4th reich was started in america
under a disguise of a democracy .

sapien82

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:19 AM
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reply to post by jerico65

So you are happy to discuss all of the horrible things you have seen with your war buddies
and talk and discuss it , but not actually realise you were put through hell for nothing but a paycheck.
Most likely in an illegal conflict for resources , when your not actually protecting or gaurding anyone or any rights or anyones freedoms , other than the governments freedom to extort the people of the country you supposedly fight for !

Dr Cosma

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by sapien82

I didn't say he hasn't been in combat, but combat comes in many forms, from a small encounter to a "hellish illegal conflict" like you said.
And he hasn't been in a hellish illegal conflict, touch wood.
I know a lot of army peeps, one thing I have realized which is in total opposite to the OP is that they're active members of the family. They all go visit their families and spend time with them and go on events with them just like any other normal human being. When it comes to the job, yes I agree they're following orders without questions.
But if you worked for macdonalds and were given an order to supply 10 bigmacs, would you question that order and say "can't I leave out the damn gherkin, I think it tastes better without it?"
You wouldn't, you'd just follow orders, you're there to get paid not to cause death and destruction and a hellish nightmare for obese people.

People who signed up for the army knew what they were getting into.
The army itself as a whole group, only work for whoever pays them.

Violater

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:26 AM
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reply to post by muzzleflash

Muzzleflash, I think somebody has hacked your account! I dont think someone with a military themed avatar and a gunfire-related username would be talking so much feces about the military. If your account information IS secure then I think you should change your avatar and username to something more appropriate.

canoland

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by sapien82
reply to post by jerico65

You dont need to join the military to have discipline , good parenting does this !
you arent better in any way except we think twice about killing people
you do it without losing a heart beat !

so how does that make you better than me ,
oh you have more physical stamina , regular exercise does that
you can make camps and survive in different climates,
yeh reading books and going camping does that

basically anything you can do in the military anyone else can do by reading
relevant source material to a point where basic understanding comes into play.

The only difference between me and you is you kill people because your told to
and you get paid for it , and you dont care about the consequences of your actions

Where as everyone else in society who choses not to enlist , has made the conscious choice
that they dont want to kill people for money because they are told to !

you are no better than us , your worse, your paid to kill for profit , your worse than a wall st banker
or a CEO of a corporation , because you kill for others to enforce these corrupt officials
and shady corporations . Your not defending us , your against us , and yes you have been brainwashed so
that you dont realise it either !

Ok let me start this by saying that I am currently active duty Air Force. I am an aircraft mechanic on c-17s.

I agree 100% that we as military are NOT better than you as a civilian. I for one have never felt that I am better or above an every day person. I was a disciplined person before I joined the service but, the military gives a person a completely different type of discipline.

I will also say that your comment about killing people without losing a heartbeat is COMPLETELY WRONG. There are hundreds of soldiers out there with PTSD caused by the things they had to do over there. Not just because they have watched friends die but also because they have had to kill people. It does not matter how mentally trained for it you are, it will still effect the majority of people.

You absolutely CAN NOT do anything we do just by reading a damn book. This is easily the dumbest thing in your entire post. Reading a book will not give you the experience to accomplish the tasks military members do. Yes, it may give you the knowledge but experience is 100 times more powerful than reading a book about how to do it. So, go ahead and read your books about survival and when the time comes to actually do it, please let everyone know how well it actually helped if you are still alive to tell your story.

And another thing, we do not get paid to kill people. I'm sorry that your understanding of how the military works is so backwards that you actually believe this. yes, sometimes military is forced to make the decision to take another persons life but that is not what the military is about. The individuals who go out and kill people make up less than 3% of the actual military. The jobs you can choose from are the exact same as the civilian world. Everything from medical to food/gym services all the way up to satellite communications and general mechanic. Learn your facts about military jobs before you put us all in the same category.

I chose to enlist as a way to provide for my family. The pay is well below average, the time away from my 2 young children is terrible and not knowing when I will be sent overseas sucks. But I did it for the benefits and the job security. The military provides a home for my family and I have confidence that I will be getting paid tomorrow.

So next time you decide to talk # about the military how about you talk about more than just the wars going on. We are all normal people making a living. We just chose to do it a different way than you did.
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stephanies-chase

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:15 AM
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reply to post by Raivan31

You wanna know what my dad does now that he is out of the military? He drinks himself in to a stupor every single day. he has been in and out of my life...my whole life. He has made an effort in the last year to have a relationship. Wanna know where he is going in January? To prison for 5 years for habitual DUIs. I don't know what he's been through, but I know that he is a broken man. It is sad to watch.

This is my experience with someone from the military. I don't what other people go through, I only speak of my father.

DocEmrick

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:24 AM
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Military service and law enforcement attract a specific personality type. I don't think it's fair to label all military servicemen and women as you did, but I do agree that a large portion of them buy into that cult mentality.

macman

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:25 AM
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Originally posted by DocEmrick
Military service and law enforcement attract a specific personality type. I don't think it's fair to label all military servicemen and women as you did, but I do agree that a large portion of them buy into that cult mentality.

No more so then people that join PETA, Straight edgers or any other group.

canoland

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Originally posted by DocEmrick
Military service and law enforcement attract a specific personality type. I don't think it's fair to label all military servicemen and women as you did, but I do agree that a large portion of them buy into that cult mentality.

Not true at all. The cult mentality barely exists in the military. We just have respect for each other and would trust one another over someone who has not experienced the same things we have.

BillyBoBBizWorth

posted on Nov, 16 2011 @ 09:29 AM
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Wow,what a thread.

OP,if your just venting your thoughts,i respect that.

But to the others that posted on this thread saying they think there better because they have been apart of a killing organization.
Personally,i don't care how much your military leaders tell you your better than other people,better than me,that BS doesn't slide with me.
Military personnel are in no way better than anyone else,if anything,i would say they are pretty weak minded.
Considering they feel the need to be apart of a organization,and a killing organization at that.
Considering they are so easily manipulated into a person that believes they are licensed to kill and are better than other people.

And all because another person with a higher rank badge said so...?

You mustn't be all there in the head to believe something like that..

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