Military training and it's effect on humans

Originally posted by gravitor

Originally posted by Equidae

Originally posted by gravitor

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by gravitor

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
reply to post by gravitor

 

Sooooo how would your soldierless country defend it self against a well trained military force? Hmmmmmm??? No anwer i bet.

Go away silly child!

Ask Switzerland.
Nobody is invading America.
America is invading others.
www.youtube.com...

Gravitor

Really ....Switzerland!

What resources does Switzerland have that could in any way shape or form incite an invasion from anybody? Invading the swiss would be just for practice. Ok soooo how about this, smart azz! How would switzerland prevent such an invasion? Hmmmmmm. No military and all, just wondering.....

"Smart azz", there You go again loosing Your cool, poor training.
If the armed forces are for DEFENCE, fairy snuff.
But You see NOBODY is invading America.
The last invaders into America is YOU lot that killed all the natives off ,and built Your forts.
OH that's what YOU are doing in lots of countries right now....isn't it???

gravitor

Ummm, as far as attacks on the USA let's see: The Revolutionary War, the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Quasi War, The Barbary Wars, Second Barbary War, The West Indies Anti-Piracy Operations, The African Anti-Slavery Operations, Battle of Ty-Ho Bay, the Reform War, The Colombian Civil War, World War 1, World War 2, etc

en.wikipedia.org...

Your link is to where America is/was involved, the most telling feature was the APACHE so called war, and that AMERICA won, the natives were removed to reservations.

Nobody is attacking America, your enemy is within.
gravitor

Which is why I did not list any of the Indian wars as defensive campaign.

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by Sek82
The fact that I, and some others here, are even members of this website debunks the entire OP's concept that we are brainwashed robots. Can't speak for others, but I am a very free thinking individual who isn't afraid to think and speak outside the box - So long as I put my civilian clothes on first.

And believe me, I am way outside the box these days.

Tip: Don't judge the military and it's members by the characteristics taken on by fresh-out-of-basic servicemembers. While they are military, they are still largely uneducated on what all the gears and levers within it do, or how they work if you will.

Also, members of a unit are frequently encouraged to spend time with each other often as they will be stuck with each other during deployments day in and day out. This is not an elitist behavior you are seeing, it is an important aspect of improving unit cohesion that they must go through and it can be hard to see it this way from the outside.

I have kept away from this thread because it stinks to high heaven of civilian vs. military rhetoric, but let me leave you with one parting gift.

*does the robot dance*

82,

I have tried with no success to convey everything you just said. I too tried to stay out of this thread because, these types always turn into a civilian vs. soldier battle. They seem to forget that we soldiers ARE civilians held to higher standards, with LESS rights, greater responsibility, and total selflessness.

At any rate, you did pose a valid question to Gravitor, which I too would like answered!

"Does the robot dance?"

Gravitor has grown on me a bit. My little confused chum from the UK.

Do your thing Gravitor, Do your thing!

(he will have a problem with everything I just said undoubtedly. Tough love)

I have no problemo sir.
I must admit to not having any idea what the term about robots dancing refers to.

INSURGENTS.
As nobody will reply.
Are classed as people fighting and opposing the ruling governing body.
The so called insurgents in Afghanistan/Iraq/libya are fighting against a false IMPOSED ruling governing body.
That false governing body has been installed by the invasion force.
If anyone did ever invade and conquer America I trust the military types on here would be INSURGENTS???????

I have on purpose pushed peoples buttons on here to bring to the surface their actual thinkings, if I have caused any offense it was only mean't as a means of actually debating that which is not been debated which is the training of young impressionable minds into obeying orders without first been humans.
This may lead to what is thought of as good soldiers, but You reap that which You sow, and America and it's so called allies will reap a very bleak future.

But the military industrial complex will be grinning.
And WHO now runs that??
I am afraid that the NAZI's do, and they have an agenda relative to the whole planet.

Your enemy is within, but your loyalty demands that You obey, thus You are in peril of obeying the nazi's.
WAKE UP.
gravitor

This thread has changed my view of military men. I didn't know that they called us "civvies" and harbored so much superiority and hatred towards those of us not in the military. It's been a real education. The OP's point has been proven in the comments. I was skeptical, but not anymore.

Originally posted by RainbeauBleu
This thread has changed my view of military men. I didn't know that they called us "civvies" and harbored so much superiority and hatred towards those of us not in the military. It's been a real education. The OP's point has been proven in the comments. I was skeptical, but not anymore.

Excellent post.
And I why I have been pushing some of the MILITARY TYPES on here to actually declare their real thinkings post their indoctrination so called trainging.

They are been taught to be a team, a brotherhood who will fight to the death anyone declared their enemy.
Imagine if the general population of America was declared such an enemy????

gravitor

I survived military training almost intact mentally, but I saw so many guys change in basic and AIT. The programming works, and if you make waves, it's against the rules. They do think they are better than civies, often talked about it.

Now that I know they simply kill innocent people for money lenders, I am deeply saddened, but also very glad I never killed anyone when I was a solider.

I doubt most of the soldiers would fire on Americans. Some would, plus all those wonderful UN peace keepers. Plenty of troops to go around.

Originally posted by gravitor
INSURGENTS.
As nobody will reply.
Are classed as people fighting and opposing the ruling governing body.
The so called insurgents in Afghanistan/Iraq/libya are fighting against a false IMPOSED ruling governing body.
That false governing body has been installed by the invasion force.
If anyone did ever invade and conquer America I trust the military types on here would be INSURGENTS???????

So, how do the insurgents fight against the ruling governing body by killing their own innocent women and children??

Originally posted by thejlxc
Now that I know they simply kill innocent people for money lenders, I am deeply saddened, but also very glad I never killed anyone when I was a solider.

Riigghhtt.

I guess when you were going thru basic, you missed the class on killing innocent people.

And if you were actually in the military as you said, you'd know it's "Soldier", not "soldier".

You are a no-go at this station. Sound familiar?

Originally posted by gravitor
They are been taught to be a team, a brotherhood who will fight to the death anyone declared their enemy.

And this is some sort of freakin' bolt from the blue to you? Of course the military trains their people to be a team and fight hard for them. You're acting like it's some sort of newsflash.

Originally posted by gravitor
Imagine if the general population of America was declared such an enemy????

Originally posted by RainbeauBleu
This thread has changed my view of military men. I didn't know that they called us "civvies" and harbored so much superiority and hatred towards those of us not in the military. It's been a real education. The OP's point has been proven in the comments. I was skeptical, but not anymore.

If you got that opinion from this thread, I feel sorry for you.

Wait, I take that back, I don't.

Originally posted by thejlxc
I survived military training almost intact mentally, but I saw so many guys change in basic and AIT. The programming works, and if you make waves, it's against the rules. They do think they are better than civies, often talked about it.

Now that I know they simply kill innocent people for money lenders, I am deeply saddened, but also very glad I never killed anyone when I was a solider.

I doubt most of the soldiers would fire on Americans. Some would, plus all those wonderful UN peace keepers. Plenty of troops to go around.

Good morning All,

Guess this day will be started earlier than it should, but lets go with it.

Lets talk about Basic Training and AIT.
In Basic you will learn just as its called, the Basics. Yes, yes basic marksmanship for starters. Now this can be challenging if you were a city boy/gal. A large portion of the new soldiers have had some experience with rifles so its no big deal. It actually opens up the door to develop interpersonal skills, and also a start for identifying leadership qualities in their beginning stages. So rifle marksmanship, drill and ceremony, physical fitness, oh oh the confidence course ( loved it, was very challenging), these are all things needed to build a soldier that pushes him/her self, and forces the SM to pay attention to detail. Also things like having your Locker set up a certain way, and dress right dress to everyone in there, shows that a SM can adjust to standards, and again pay attention to detail. ALL of this is for the purpose of building personal confidence, and discipline. No programming going on. Now it can be further challenging IF you don't feel you should have to do certain things. Life wake up early, stand in line quietly, or do what anybody tells you to do without question. Yep there are those that think, even though basic training has be doing a fantastic job training soldiers at their initial entry into the armed forces, starting today, right here, right now, the army needs to change to suit my needs, the way I see it. Well that's called failure to adapt. Majority of the issues fall on that one topic. Failure to fallow direction, fallow a direct order, fallow a lawful order. See training is training. If i cant count on you to do a simple task such as " Bring BOTH canteens to class today. But you bring one, because you didn't feel like carrying two." How dependable will you be when its " double your ammo load tonight, will be supporting all TIC's in our AO tonight. However your sorry azz decides I dont want to go through the effort of drawing the additional ammo, that will be stored in your vehicle, should you need it. ANd guess what! you do need it! but nooooooooooooo you didnt draw it. So now you will index before everybody else."

You know im starting to rant. Im going to enjoy my breakfast.

Basic and AIT is just training. Learn how to soldier first, then learn your job. You must be confident, and you must be discipline! point blank!

Originally posted by PLASIFISK

Originally posted by thejlxc
I survived military training almost intact mentally, but I saw so many guys change in basic and AIT. The programming works, and if you make waves, it's against the rules. They do think they are better than civies, often talked about it.

Now that I know they simply kill innocent people for money lenders, I am deeply saddened, but also very glad I never killed anyone when I was a solider.

I doubt most of the soldiers would fire on Americans. Some would, plus all those wonderful UN peace keepers. Plenty of troops to go around.

Good morning All,

Guess this day will be started earlier than it should, but lets go with it.

Lets talk about Basic Training and AIT.
In Basic you will learn just as its called, the Basics. Yes, yes basic marksmanship for starters. Now this can be challenging if you were a city boy/gal. A large portion of the new soldiers have had some experience with rifles so its no big deal. It actually opens up the door to develop interpersonal skills, and also a start for identifying leadership qualities in their beginning stages. So rifle marksmanship, drill and ceremony, physical fitness, oh oh the confidence course ( loved it, was very challenging), these are all things needed to build a soldier that pushes him/her self, and forces the SM to pay attention to detail. Also things like having your Locker set up a certain way, and dress right dress to everyone in there, shows that a SM can adjust to standards, and again pay attention to detail. ALL of this is for the purpose of building personal confidence, and discipline. No programming going on. Now it can be further challenging IF you don't feel you should have to do certain things. Life wake up early, stand in line quietly, or do what anybody tells you to do without question. Yep there are those that think, even though basic training has be doing a fantastic job training soldiers at their initial entry into the armed forces, starting today, right here, right now, the army needs to change to suit my needs, the way I see it. Well that's called failure to adapt. Majority of the issues fall on that one topic. Failure to fallow direction, fallow a direct order, fallow a lawful order. See training is training. If i cant count on you to do a simple task such as " Bring BOTH canteens to class today. But you bring one, because you didn't feel like carrying two." How dependable will you be when its " double your ammo load tonight, will be supporting all TIC's in our AO tonight. However your sorry azz decides I dont want to go through the effort of drawing the additional ammo, that will be stored in your vehicle, should you need it. ANd guess what! you do need it! but nooooooooooooo you didnt draw it. So now you will index before everybody else."

You know im starting to rant. Im going to enjoy my breakfast.

Basic and AIT is just training. Learn how to soldier first, then learn your job. You must be confident, and you must be discipline! point blank!

Oh and one more thing. Civies is what we called our regular clothes, ya know the not uniform ones! we don't call civilians, civies. That's just stupid to think so. You get out of uniform and into civies. Everyone tracking now! jeeezzzzzzz.

Concerning turning our weapons on the civilian population,

I cant speak for all soldiers, i can however for most.

The american tax payers have paid for ALL of my training. If ever, IF EVER, the need came that I would walk out of my front door into a war zone, My civilian neighbors can count on me to use every bit of my training in the protection of THEM. And my military neighbors can count on my falling in to form a QRF instantly.

Protect the people is first. And i will do so until the people become a threat to me or my family. Then it will become a different story.

I will protect your family as I do mine.

I am a disabled veteran and while I may have been screwed by our government. While I do not agree with our past current and more than likely future commander and chief I am still proud to call Myself a United States Marine. I always will be and nothing anyone can say or do wil ever change that

Semper Fi
Patriot

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Concerning turning our weapons on the civilian population,

I cant speak for all soldiers, i can however for most.

The american tax payers have paid for ALL of my training. If ever, IF EVER, the need came that I would walk out of my front door into a war zone, My civilian neighbors can count on me to use every bit of my training in the protection of THEM. And my military neighbors can count on my falling in to form a QRF instantly.

Protect the people is first. And i will do so until the people become a threat to me or my family. Then it will become a different story.

I will protect your family as I do mine.

You are turning Your weapons on civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan and libya, the so called insurgents are fighting against YOU.
There will be different countries armed forces deployed in America whilst You are playing soldier in a foreign land.
gravitor

Originally posted by thejlxc
I survived military training almost intact mentally, but I saw so many guys change in basic and AIT. The programming works, and if you make waves, it's against the rules. They do think they are better than civies, often talked about it.

Now that I know they simply kill innocent people for money lenders, I am deeply saddened, but also very glad I never killed anyone when I was a solider.

I doubt most of the soldiers would fire on Americans. Some would, plus all those wonderful UN peace keepers. Plenty of troops to go around.

Thank You for having the courage to retain Your humanity.
Watch for the deployment of foreign troops.
gravitor

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by gravitor
INSURGENTS.
As nobody will reply.
Are classed as people fighting and opposing the ruling governing body.
The so called insurgents in Afghanistan/Iraq/libya are fighting against a false IMPOSED ruling governing body.
That false governing body has been installed by the invasion force.
If anyone did ever invade and conquer America I trust the military types on here would be INSURGENTS???????

So, how do the insurgents fight against the ruling governing body by killing their own innocent women and children??

WHO TOLD YOU that they do any such thing?
gravitor

Originally posted by gravitor

Originally posted by PLASIFISK
Concerning turning our weapons on the civilian population,

I cant speak for all soldiers, i can however for most.

The american tax payers have paid for ALL of my training. If ever, IF EVER, the need came that I would walk out of my front door into a war zone, My civilian neighbors can count on me to use every bit of my training in the protection of THEM. And my military neighbors can count on my falling in to form a QRF instantly.

Protect the people is first. And i will do so until the people become a threat to me or my family. Then it will become a different story.

I will protect your family as I do mine.

You are turning Your weapons on civilians in Iraq/Afghanistan and libya, the so called insurgents are fighting against YOU.

There will be different countries armed forces deployed in America whilst You are playing soldier in a foreign land.
gravitor

"playing" soldier.

Gravitor ole buddy ole pal. You are on a slippery slope i must say. The battle you fight is with self and no one else. While i could counter everything you say, it would be in for not. Im going to settle on the fact that the world needs people like you and me. Just the cards dealt . You could be very effective as a voice of reason given better facts, links, sources. At the moment your argument is just your belief. And ats is your soapbox!

Out.

Originally posted by RainbeauBleu
This thread has changed my view of military men. I didn't know that they called us "civvies" and harbored so much superiority and hatred towards those of us not in the military. It's been a real education. The OP's point has been proven in the comments. I was skeptical, but not anymore.

'Civvies' is just a slang term that is used, it is not a pejorative. A similar term used is 'grunts' for those in the infantry. It's a byproduct of working somewhere that is obsessed with creating acronyms and code names for just about everything

It isn't resentment, it's just the emotional gaps that are brought about by experiencing things that only other military people have. I am very close with friends I grew up with, and I tell them a lot; however, I don't talk about my deployments and military experiences with them. It isn't anyone's fault, it just is. Dangerous situations also bring about similar things.

Try as I might, I just cannot explain the feelings and effects of constant mortaring, abject poverty, close calls, and difficult ethical decisions which are central to war in any form. I can't even really explain why I'm a pacifist to people who haven't deployed because my reasons come from my deployment experiences. When I have tried to tell people back home it always ends with an awkward duality of either pity or a congratulations on killing people. It reinforces not wanting to talk about it with people who weren't there to experience it no matter how good intentioned they are.

reply to post by gravitor


Of course war breeds terrorists. It's one of the ugly realities involved, and one that society as a whole likes to ignore by slapping a yellow ribbon stick on their car and then continue on their merry way. No matter how hard you try there will always be innocent people hurt by war. Most people in the military are young, and so have never had an opportunity to vote.

When you enlist you waive many of your right to free speech for the duration of your time in. It is necessary in a hierarchical organization which in many cases can't afford to set up a Town Hall about a topic because someone could be killed by that. Society trusts the military to defend them. There are no PACs for people in the military, so the military places their trust with their society to advocate for good policy decisions. That is why it is societies responsibility to choose leaders who only send off the military when there is absolutely no last resort.

Originally posted by gravitor

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by gravitor
INSURGENTS.
As nobody will reply.
Are classed as people fighting and opposing the ruling governing body.
The so called insurgents in Afghanistan/Iraq/libya are fighting against a false IMPOSED ruling governing body.
That false governing body has been installed by the invasion force.
If anyone did ever invade and conquer America I trust the military types on here would be INSURGENTS???????

So, how do the insurgents fight against the ruling governing body by killing their own innocent women and children??

WHO TOLD YOU that they do any such thing?
gravitor

I've seen the aftermath. I'm not fond of the term insurgent since it implies that people are complete Taliban/NATO supporters. A large number of the Taliban aren't even Afghans. In Afghanistan suspected 'collaborators' are often murdered in the middle of the night, or their sons are kidnapped and forced to fight or help place IEDs. Many girls have had acid thrown on them for going to school. Remote farmers are sometimes forced to grow poppy, which is turned into heroin and sold in Europe and North America, to fund the Taliban. I also remember after the election one man had his nose, ears, and some of his fingers cut off because he had voted (fat lot of good that election did since there was fraud which got them stuck with the Karzai thugs for a few more years.)