Tree of knowledge of good & evil, And the Tree of Life

__________________

All in all, the devil has no power.

" the devil will say, I had no authority over you except that I called you and you obeyed me. So blame me not, but blame yourselves"

reply to post by dn4cer2000


I will simplify it again for you.

There was no knowledge of good or evil, It was neutral, what man knew, he knew only, what was and what is.
But man did have a free choice on how to act and what He would do.

Where do you think such knowledge now comes from? To punish to wicked and reward the just in society?.
To know what is a good thing to do, and what is a bad thing to do.

its really the act of disobedience that brought in this knowledge, because doing the act of disobedience led to knowing what they had done, sinned, and hid them selves.

reply to post by phoenix0714


why do you let your children out of the house, knowing that a car might run over them, or they might be abducted, or some other calamity might come their way??
ya, at first you watch over them and guide them, but you hope, your wish, is that they will grow up and be able to function in the world....

maybe god allowed us to fall because his goal wasn't to have a bunch of babies for enternity???

Given the attributes that god seems to have I have always wondered why a being who is all powerful and all knowing create something with the knowledge that he will destroy it and punish a vast amount of them for eternity. If god actually knew this before the creation then I have problems with accepting he loves. Why put satan in a position to effect mankind forever? Why not just pop him out of existence and be done with it and no more worries before all of this started.

Op you stated:

"I think its possible to explain or think that, Satan could not be destroyed right because hes an angel, But we know that he will be chained up and locked in the abyss for all eternity with those angels that disobeyed with satan. "

That statement shows god is not all powerful. He is not supreme. Therefore he doesn't deserve the worship he receives. The only way to rationalize the satan issue is god wanted him there for a reason. He wanted man to fall. He wants to punish us and for us to suffer. That is not a loving god nor a perfect god. How do you work that out in your mind?

reply to post by drivers1492


If God wanted us to suffer, he wouldnt have sent Jesus to die on the cross, His only Begotten son, that at anytime could have destroyed the world, But chose to save it.

God will get all my worship from my heart and spirit, I will serve Him alone, and only Him, For He alone is worthy and deserves all the glory, If you cannot understand that, maybe you need read the bible.

I think we underestimate God........Seriously.......

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


I see your reasoning there but if he truly wanted us not to suffer he would have created everything perfectly instead of with issues. Making the assertion I may need to read the bible isn't really helping answer my questions though. But, just so you are aware so we can get past that, I have read it quite a bit over the last 40 years. Anyway, I asked for your thoughts on my questions posed and your statement of faith doesn't really do that. I would appreciate your thoughts on my previous posts questions though. I'm asking in the pursuit of understanding not trying to shake you faith. I do hope you understand that.

reply to post by drivers1492

Everything was made perfect, Because God saw all that was made and said it was good, Then He rested.

The point where all creation turned, was when man sinned, and disobeyed God.
God is Perfect, Satan wasn't made perfect, because pride was found in his heart, governing free wills choice.

God knew the beginning, He knows the end, But its free wills choice that changed the nature of mankind, because God couldnt make man a robot creature to follow and do as commanded, Not God wanted a close intimate relationship, between Son and Father, God only gave two commandments, To multiply and be fruitful, and Not to disobey Gods only law which was not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, because in that day He would taste death and sin, and the act of being awakened to disobedience led to scaring, Which then God was disappointed as any parents would be, He cursed satan and banished man, But it does not mean that God wouldnt have a grand plan of redemption, Jesus, And thus starts the era of mankind, through until 2011 years ago, so to speak, maybe 1980 years ago, when Christ Died on the cross and paid that price restoring thus completing Gods plan for salvation. At no time was anyone in hell until after Christ went down into the bowels of the earth, taking the keys of life and death, preached to those in prison, those which are dead, and took all those who were in Abrams boo-sum and ascended into heaven with them, Thus since the 3rd day was complete, Mankind was now a new creation, made a quickened Spirit, Still in a flesh nature of sin body, But being able to be born of Gods spirit once again through the Blood of Jesus, leading thus to redemption of man through the Spirit, not through the flesh, because the heart and mind cant be saved, they can only be brought into line with the Word of God, But the Spirit is born again, saved, forgiven and cleansed when you repent and ask Jesus as Lord of your life, and which point He sent His Holy Spirit, That he would consume us, and live within us, No christian has ever not received the Holy Spirit, To be born again you receive renewing of your Spirit by Gods Spirit on our inside, Which this process you receive the helper, anyone who accepts Christ, receives the mark of salvation, The Holy Spirit. But the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a different thing all together, Its receiving the power from on high, and being clothed in it.

If you die without being born again or saved, Then you wont be cast into hell just because you dont know Jesus or God or heard of salvation, But you will stand before God, all men will, and give an account of the things they have done, and whether you may enter the city, or be outside on the gates, God is a gracious and loving God, do you really think He is that wrong to make a mistake, If He made all things, He knows all things, and If He knows all things, dont you think He could know if He made a mistake, But its not God that makes mistakes, Its man.

Look i hope not to go to far in this, because i can share and give my views on nearly everything, But When it Comes to The garden to the cross, you have to realize how much God actually did for the people of the earth, and for the nation of Israel. Eventually for all the world.

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


Thanks for expanding on that. Your views are what I am asking for, so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to go further into this since that is the purpose of the q&a interactions with users on a forum.....

Anyway, the only issue I come across in your response is the limitations you have put upon god to explain why he did things the way he did. Saying that "because God couldnt make man a robot creature to follow and do as commanded" is stating your god does have limitations. If he is what he is believed to be then he would have no problem at all creating a being in a different manner and avoid all of this pain and suffering in life and the possibility of damnation due to the use of free will. Simply removing a known adversary at the beginning of man's existence could have been all it took. With that in mind I personally am left wondering why? Why create something with the knowledge you will destroy it and cause it pain? Unless you don't believe in hell. But if you do then you are left with the realization that god did actually create us with the full knowledge that he would cause suffering for eternity.

Sending his son as a sacrifice for us is an excellent gesture but sadly it doesn't negate the punishment coming if these texts are true. So still the issue remains.

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


"We know satan is a lier and the father of them, since he was a lier and a murderer from the beginning.
the one thing that sparked such a hate for man, was the relationship and love of God for man, and satan hated man for this, and satan came to the conclusion if he cant get to God through himself, he would pull down and get to God through man, and destroying what privileges and authority that man had recieved from God.

Satan was envious, He hates mankind so much.........Its unreal how much. so lets take a deep look into what really went on during the temptation is the garden

Satan made something twisted and poisonous out of order and truth, he questioned and seeded doubt into the heart of eve, he wove his way into eves emotion and through her easily weak nature, and mind, he cunningly convinced her with that temptation question, "Does the Word really say that, Is God really true, Are you sure that you wont become like God(s) Like a God being Gods more than one. the second And final adam went through this as well is Matthew 4 whom is The son of Man, (Jesus Christ), and praise God forever and ever Christ overcame and the victory was won on a tree. "

Okay wow, first of all Lucifer was an angel, Satan represents the Devil entity, and the Serpent represents Knowledge and Kundalini energy, I do not believe they are all really the same. Lucifer was not a murderer. He basically developed an Ego, and was envious, had pride, and wanted to rule Heaven. God did not want him to rule, but because of his Ego he was kicked out, thus the Fall of Man.

The Serpent that tempted Eve was her Kundalini rising up, and opening her eyes to what was really going on. She then became the Mother, and she is not necessarily evil. Adam represents man, and yes he too opened eyes and saw what the world was really like. They developed their egos as well, and like I said thus the Fall. Before it was equal balance and perfect harmony. Which we have to attain within one self.

Thus when Lucifer was cast out his Ego became Satan, which i personally think is God's shadow self. That is a whole other topic. Now Jesus came upon Earth not as a perfect soul, he was sent away to learn how to perfect himself, which i think is why you read about him until the age of 12, and then he comes back onto the scene at the age of 33. He was sent to learn the secret mysteries and attain perfection, Ie enlightenment, same thing that Buddha and all the other prophet did so they could become a teaching tool, to show people, who understand the mysteries, the path to enlightenment.

Jesus dying on the cross represents the path you need to take to become enlightened, if you know understand what he was saying. In Qabbalah, it is teached we all have this inside we can all change, we can all become enlightened. There is a path you have to take to reach to that point. We all have this knowledge inside of us we just need to know how to unlock it. Jesus was trying to teach mankind to get back to the way it used to be with perfect harmony and perfect balance. There are numerous ways to reach that point, through initiations, through meditation, through Chakras, and so on. That was the teaching of Jesus he did a living reenactment by showing us the way through his life!

So we can reach that point but we have to work on it, and I am sorry to say that praying to some preacher and asking for forgiveness and saying Yay God I am saved doesn't work. that is what the religions taught and that is wrong. Why do you think there is a picture of Jesus pointing to his heart, with his heart showing and crown around the heart. he was showing you a path to take, in order yo reach God and attain the true meaning of Slavation, we need o basically climb back up the tree. Only then can you truly be saved, and enlightened. Other wise it's all show, and those people are not changed and you are basically a Sheeple for religion.

That's the only way to become truly saved. the choice is yours.

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


Those said to be GOD and NATAS/serpent are possibly brothers, depending on what YOUR reading. With that the evol aspect seems to be influenced on who won the most recent WARS between the 2 brothers. Meaning who ever won had SAY on who was good and evol to be read and deciphered TODAY by YOU. In many ways if the other brother won the last WAR you may be calling NATAS someone else, so its based on what you read and can decipher on your own. Thats why its embedded in the modern mind to not like snakes or fear them. GOOD LUCK

reply to post by liliththedestroyer


If you honestly believe that what it takes to become enlightened, saved and keep salvation, then i want no part of that cup. Seriously.

Satan is the serpent, Because he is the dragon, the deceiver, cunning and wicked,
Satan is a being, and He tempted eve's flesh to sin, by cleverly and cunningly twisting the Word of God to make something poisonous and bitter out of it.

As for the sacrifice for Christ on the Cross, By Gods standards, its all sufficient for both the past and the future of man. What you think or man thinks, Is not necessarily true. The only thing that is true, Is The Word of God, which is unfailing.

of course the God of this worlds wants nothing more than a bunch of spiritual dead, blind, manipulative sinning humans that are null and dead to the Word of God, that they are so deceived the only power that can set them free is the Word. And the last thing satan wants is for man to know this truth, to understand it and put it in to the right application

Now IF a new WAR was to be then AGAIN who is GOD and NATAS may change again depending on who wins..

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Where is the bible does it refer to Lucifer being a son of God?, where does it explain and tell us that Satan and Jesus are related?.

Dont you know the parable that if a house is divided against itself it cannot stand?

Matthew 12:25-30

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad

Originally posted by Warpthal
reply to post by InnerstellarOne

 

Lucifer was Satan before he was smote out of Heaven. He was the best Angel. You can look at the bible in almost infinite allegorical ways. Same goes for the tree of life. Ever heard of the Kabbalah?

I have, studied the Kabbala for 25 years or so. FYI, "Lucifer" is a Latin word. Are you saying that that the language existed at the beginning of everything? I knew the Holy Roman Church has been in power for a long time, but I didn't know they had a Temple in Heaven.

reply to post by InnerstellarOne


"I base my self on the Word of God, Because its true. Sufficient in its self, I'm a living testimony of the power of God, and so is my family. End of point. "

The word of God that you are talking about has been tampered with, there are so many missing books out of the bible because certain people, Catholics, didn't want you to know everything. they wanted to keep it hidden in the dark, and thus you are in the dark. The bible is all symbolism, it is a way for people who can actually see and know what it means as a guide to to get everyone back to where we all need to be.


"I believe that God is, and always was and always will, There is no goddess, there is no self will creating destiny, im not deceived because i cant be. Because the greater one abides in me,

1 Corinthians 3:16
"And do you not know that you are the Temple of God, And that the Spirit of God dwells in you?."

We do have self will or free will, God gave us free will to do what we will choose to do with our own lives. We are in control of ourselves not some energy form. Which is what God is, pure energy. It is also male and female because we are all Gods.

yes I know we are temples (souls) and we have to take care of our temples (souls) once are temples are prepared for God that is the only way the spirit of God (enlightenment) can dwell in you.

If you look at the path to salvation, and the tree of life, you will see they are the same, Jesus was correct in what he preached, it is people like yourself who take it too literal. Only very few people are truly saved, and I am sorry to say you are not one of them. Neither am I, but at least i am beginning to see as my eyes are opening to the real truth.

reply to post by liliththedestroyer


Yeah i have a relationship with the creator through Jesus.

Im enlightened by His Spirit because He is Light.

The truth is the Word, and im Word based, I dont believe in the kabalah, or any other doctrines of man or devils.
There is only one knowledge and truth, and thats the book that is inspired by the Word of God. The Holy Bible.

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by liliththedestroyer

 

If you honestly believe that what it takes to become enlightened, saved and keep salvation, then i want no part of that cup. Seriously.

Satan is the serpent, Because he is the dragon, the deceiver, cunning and wicked,
Satan is a being, and He tempted eve's flesh to sin, by cleverly and cunningly twisting the Word of God to make something poisonous and bitter out of it.

As for the sacrifice for Christ on the Cross, By Gods standards, its all sufficient for both the past and the future of man. What you think or man thinks, Is not necessarily true. The only thing that is true, Is The Word of God, which is unfailing.

of course the God of this worlds wants nothing more than a bunch of spiritual dead, blind, manipulative sinning humans that are null and dead to the Word of God, that they are so deceived the only power that can set them free is the Word. And the last thing satan wants is for man to know this truth, to understand it and put it in to the right application

You do not want to take that cup, because there is the truth in it and I am sorry to say you sir are the deceived one. I am sorry you are brainwashed by your own delusions and I wish you could only open your eyes to the truth. I too was at that point in my life, but I knew something was up when i wasn't changed because it's the not the way to do it!

Because of your will I cannot change you, i can only point you in the right direction. It is up to you.

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by Ophiuchus 13

 

Where is the bible does it refer to Lucifer being a son of God?, where does it explain and tell us that Satan and Jesus are related?.

[color=gold] BROTHERS

According to the ancient Sumerian texts, the Sumerian god, Anu, the “supreme Lord of the Sky”, the currently reigning titular head of the Sumerian Family Tree, had two sons. They were Enki (Ea), Lord of the Earth and Waters (whose mother was Antu), and Enlil (Ilu), Lord of the Air and Lord of the Command (whose mother was Ki). These two half-brothers -- surprise, surprise -- did not get along.



[color=gold] bible data from approx 6000 before bible designed by emperor Constantine. Constantine built bible with various pagen religious data hence how ancient Sumerian data got into bible- GENESIS-

The First Council of Nicaea was a council of Christian bishops convened in Nicaea in Bithynia (present-day İznik in Turkey) by the Roman Emperor Constantine I in AD 325. The Council was the first effort to attain consensus in the church through an assembly representing all of Christendom.[5][6]



[color=gold] BROTHERS both had influences NOTICE ENLILS INFLUENCE IS RELATED TO DATA YOU SHARE IN OP*

Abraham and his descendants served Enlil, and followed his precepts. The Egyptians, on the other hand, were Enki’s protégés, and based on food management practices during the devastating droughts around the time of Jacob and Joseph, were doing a lot better than Enlil’s followers.



Abrahamic religions are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham[1] or recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him.[2][3][4] They are one of the three major divisions in comparative religion, along with Indian religions (Dharmic) and East Asian religions (Taoic).

The three major Abrahamic religions are, in chronological order of founding, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Judaism regards itself as the religion of the descendants of Jacob,[n 1] a grandson of Abraham. It has a strictly unitary view of God, and the central holy book for almost all branches is the Hebrew Bible, as elucidated in the oral law. Christianity began as a sect of Judaism[n 2] in the Mediterranean[n 3] of the 1st century CE and evolved into a separate religion—the Christian Church—with distinctive beliefs and practices. Jesus is the central figure of Christianity, considered by almost all denominations to be divine, typically as one person of a Triune God.[n 4]



[color=gold] based on what you read and figure out internally / SPIRITUALLY

Originally posted by InnerstellarOne
reply to post by liliththedestroyer

 

Yeah i have a relationship with the creator through Jesus.

Im enlightened by His Spirit because He is Light.

The truth is the Word, and im Word based, I dont believe in the kabalah, or any other doctrines of man or devils.
There is only one knowledge and truth, and thats the book that is inspired by the Word of God. The Holy Bible.

I am done talking to you, because you are completely brainwashed. You cannot talk, nor persuade the brainwashed only show them the way.

The Qabalah is not evil in anyway, the only way a person is evil is if they let their ego control them, then you are truly possessed by the Devil. You have it half right, and i truly wish you could get the other half.