Mass. School district to close tuesday for ISLAMIC holiday?!

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Stop quoting random people and quote the QUR'AN!!

OK.

How about when Muhammed, blessed be his name, ordering people burnt in their houses for not praying?

The episode appears in the Bukari which is a religious Hadith which is sacred to Sunni Muslims who make up 80 to 90% of all Muslims globally ( en.wikipedia.org... ).

Bukhari (11:626) - "The Prophet said,

'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

www.quranexplorer.com...

Originally posted by soaringhawk
reply to post by RedGod

 

I'm all for learning about cultures, but having students participate in religious worship is wrong. Christians cannot pray in a public school today because the school will face a lawsuit likely which has happened several times in our recent history. I know the facts and you can't tell me different.

Learning and participating are two different things. I don't believe I've heard of them being forced into Islam. If you have a source for that, I'd love to see it, and I will kindly eat my words.

As for prayer, are you telling me that a Christian bowing his or her little head at their desk will get the school sued? I would call you, sir, incorrect.

All the time separation of church & state is used when students were led in prayer, or prayer at a football game, or removing crosses, removing the 10 Commandments from a court house in Alabama, stopping the pledge of allegiance and many other unconstitutional actions.

How, exactly, is this unconstitutional? I'd prefer an answer that isn't "Because it's unconstitutional." Thank you.

These happen because these people are enemies of our government, the Constitution and they are Socialist working to destroy this nation. They have infiltrated our society up to the highest levels of government. The ACLU founder said Communism is the goal. The fulfillment of Socialism is Communism.

Your view is that they are enemies of the U.S. and are working to bring it down, theirs is probably more along the lines of doing it to better the nation and the people in it. So, that falls into the "matter of opinion" category.

Again, I know what I'm talking about and you do not.

That's a bit rude. Also, using "Again" in that sentence is a bit off, since that's the first time you said "I know what I'm talking about and you do not."

It's people like you that are either knowingly helping to destroy this nation or out of ignorance. You and those like you have a lot to learn and I hope you do before it's too late.

Yes, those displaying a lack of bigotry are knowingly working to destroy this nation.

You accuse me of "ignorance" for lacking a hatred of people different than me. You accuse me of working against the Constitution and the Country without even knowing me. Yes, I'm against the U.S. Government. That is due to it's lack of adherence to it's own laws, as well as it's continuous disregard for treaties signed with the indigenous peoples of North America and their terrorist actions against them. I am leery of Caucasians, particularly armed Caucasians, because for years and years their arrival meant oppression. Yes, I hold a bit of an old grudge reinforced by continuing actions.

Am I helping to destroy your nation? Not particularly. I've merely turned my back on it. Am I hoping for it's fall? Eh, I'm on the fence.

allurchips you complain too much my friend..

get over it..

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

Originally posted by primus2012

Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by relpobre000

 

There are many GOOD thing about being ethnocentric. Look it up again. EVERY country is ethnocentric. ( means they feel their cultures and values and beliefs are superior to anothers. So how is that bad?

It's bad because the United States population comes from every ethnicity possible in the world. The Great American Melting Pot.

Christmas Day is a recognized holiday because of Santa Claus, not Jesus of Nazareth. Not a religious holiday.

The origin is what matters. Just because people took the religion out of Christmas, doesn't mean that Christians aren't in church commemorating the day. Who cares what other people do. They aren't the ones who invented Christmas!

True, but my point is that it can't be used in the argument that it is a Federal religious holiday, only a Federal one.

I find no issue with the district calling for a day off. It's not that they are doing so to observe the day, but respecting those that do, while being fair to those that do not.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Stop quoting random people and quote the QUR'AN!!

OK.

How about when Muhammed, blessed be his name, ordering people burnt in their houses for not praying?

The episode appears in the Bukari which is a religious Hadith which is sacred to Sunni Muslims who make up 80 to 90% of all Muslims globally ( en.wikipedia.org... ).

Bukhari (11:626) - "The Prophet said,

'No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.' The Prophet added, 'Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.'"

Muhammad orders his men to burn alive those who do not present themselves at the mosque for prayer.

www.quranexplorer.com...

lmao at the fact that you STILL haven't quoted Qur'an. Muslims debate hadith all day long. Many muslims disregard hadith entirely because of the way they were (weren't) documented. Do we debate Qur'an? nope.

Originally posted by antar
Our founding fathers are turning over in their graves...

If we "Americans" were to move in masse to a deep Muslim Country, do you suppose they would begin to honor Western Religious rights and freedoms?

Would they allow all of their students a day off for Christmas, or 4th of July?

I find it odd that it is day of sacrifice when it is clear they want to sacrifice everyone who is not of their faith.

Ummm.... Thomas Jefferson celebrated Ramadan at the White House. Most of the founding fathers rather admired the Islamic religion. I really don't think they'd be rolling over in their graves right now.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I really wish people wouldn't call us "moderate" any longer.

Then you'd see that we aren't "moderate" muslims, we are REAL muslims, and the other dudes are just messed up...

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council doesn't share your optimism.

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council has testified that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques.

Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, a Sufi leader, visited 114 mosques in the United States.

Then he gave testimony before a State Department open forum in January 1999 declaring that Islamic supremacists controlled most mosques in America .

“The most dangerous thing that is going on now in these mosques,” Kabbani said, “that has been sent upon these mosques around the United States—like churches they were established by different organizations and that is okay—but the problem with our communities is the extremist ideology.

Because they are very active, they took over the mosques, and we can say that they took over more than 80% of the mosques that have been established in the U.S.”

www.humanevents.com...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I really wish people wouldn't call us "moderate" any longer.

Then you'd see that we aren't "moderate" muslims, we are REAL muslims, and the other dudes are just messed up...

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council doesn't share your optimism.

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council has testified that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques.

Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, a Sufi leader, visited 114 mosques in the United States.

Then he gave testimony before a State Department open forum in January 1999 declaring that Islamic supremacists controlled most mosques in America .

“The most dangerous thing that is going on now in these mosques,” Kabbani said, “that has been sent upon these mosques around the United States—like churches they were established by different organizations and that is okay—but the problem with our communities is the extremist ideology.

Because they are very active, they took over the mosques, and we can say that they took over more than 80% of the mosques that have been established in the U.S.”

www.humanevents.com...

The two statements don't even correlate.

I said we aren't moderates, we are REAL muslims. And you responded with Shaykh Kabbani saying extremists have taken over???? Interesting.. you are now on my questionable list..

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

lmao at the fact that you STILL haven't quoted Qur'an. Muslims debate hadith all day long. Many muslims disregard hadith entirely because of the way they were (weren't) documented. Do we debate Qur'an? nope.

I gave you a link ( en.wikipedia.org... ) that explains that the Bukari is a primary Hadith (sacred relgious text) for Sunni Muslims who make up 80 to 90% of all Muslims globally.

Either you are ignorant as to the nature and status of Hadiths in Islam or you are embarssed that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine

lmao at the fact that you STILL haven't quoted Qur'an. Muslims debate hadith all day long. Many muslims disregard hadith entirely because of the way they were (weren't) documented. Do we debate Qur'an? nope.

I gave you a link ( en.wikipedia.org... ) that explains that the Bukari is a primary Hadith (sacred relgious text) for Sunni Muslims who make up 80 to 90% of all Muslims globally.

Either you are ignorant as to the nature and status of Hadiths in Islam or you are embarssed that Muhammad ordered people burnt to death for not praying.

How are you gonna give me 2 options and neither of them are the statement I made? Bad comprehension maybe? The status of Hadith in Islam is that if a Hadith contradicts the Qur'an it is null and void. I'm still waiting on you to quote Qur'an..

reply to post by AllUrChips

Originally posted by AllUrChips
reply to post by relpobre000

 

There are many GOOD thing about being ethnocentric. Look it up again. EVERY country is ethnocentric. ( means they feel their cultures and values and beliefs are superior to anothers. So how is that bad?

The reason it is bad is in your above quote. The fact that people think their culture is superior is at the heart of conflict.

Look at this situation. Muslims are getting a religious day recognized in a secular society because they believe this day is superior compared to other days. The USA should stop being a hypocrite and stop observing any religious holiday. Sadly, when it comes to these things it is simple mob rule. My religious beliefs are obscure in this part of the world and I could never get an observance of special days even if I wanted to. However, I don't want that and life should not stop on certain days over the petty fact that some people consider those days superior to others. Holidays are such a waste of time. Every one of them.

Originally posted by antar
Let me clarify my stance. While I feel it is important to honor all of the melting pots variety and taste in religious holidays, I also am afraid that eventually the whole situation could turn against us quickly if we do not hold some sense of balance for those freedoms which are not the norm in Muslim states.

That position doesn't make any sense antar. The Muslim immigrants probably came here to escape laws like that.

Since when did we start discriminating against people based on their homeland's laws? Our earliest settlers and founding fathers came here precisely because their countries were trying to force one specific religion on them.

I see how the worldwide take over could potentially defeat us if we do not stand up for continuity and our sense of again the word freedom.

Or we could, you know, give liberty to all our citizens and be the example that other countries want to follow.

How the hell is suppressing someone's rights based on their country's laws "freedom"?

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


The truth about the religion of peace hurts doesn't it, guess what that is what Law of islam is all about and no sugar coating of so call "moderate religion" can erase the truth behind it.

Sharia law in Europe, this is coming near us here in the US very soon

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
I said we aren't moderates, we are REAL muslims. And you responded with Shaykh Kabbani saying extremists have taken over???? Interesting.. you are now on my questionable list..

What would the the Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council know about Islam in the USA when he testified before the State Department that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques?

The Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America and the Sufi Muslim Council has testified that Islamic supremacists control 80% of US mosques.

Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, a Sufi leader, visited 114 mosques in the United States.

Then he gave testimony before a State Department open forum in January 1999 declaring that Islamic supremacists controlled most mosques in America .

“The most dangerous thing that is going on now in these mosques,” Kabbani said, “that has been sent upon these mosques around the United States—like churches they were established by different organizations and that is okay—but the problem with our communities is the extremist ideology.

Because they are very active, they took over the mosques, and we can say that they took over more than 80% of the mosques that have been established in the U.S.

And there are more than 3,000 mosques in the U.S. So it means that the methodology or ideology of extremists has been spread to 80% of the Muslim population, but not all of them agree with it.”

www.humanevents.com...

I do agree however that most Muslims, like yourself, are moderate. To pretend that the extreme Muslims do not exist however is an insult to not only non Muslims intelligence, its also an insult to the intelligence of the Chairman of the Islamic Supreme Council of America.

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by Ihsahn

 

Here in the Bible belt where I live, the schools do not allow us to say "Christmas Vacation" anymore, instead it is winter break. So why can they celebrate "Slaughter Day"? I find that word and its practices deeply grotesque, potentially dangerous and offensive.

The Jews slaughter lambs on passover, do you find that offensive?

Oh of course not, it's politically incorrect to be offended by the Jews. Muslims are fair game though in the modern day. One of the only minorities you can spew hate against without much retaliation.

What has happened to our country when Christmas is a big no go but Slaughter day is welcome?

In case you didn't notice schools still get weeks off for Christmas. Not just a day, weeks. And Easter.

Originally posted by marg6043
For anybody that is trying to play the political correctness in this thread while trying to defend the Mass decision better learn the truth behind Islam law because obviously you have been deceived by propaganda of so call "Muslim moderates"

Muslim Loyalty to
Non-Muslim Governments

Muslims are not meant to be ruled by non-Muslims. The Qur'an is very clear that they are to resist unbelievers by any means until Islam establishes political supremacy. This doesn't mean that everyone must be forced to become Muslim, but rather that everyone must submit to Muslim rule.

There you have it, it is not Islamic law to be ruled by none Muslim so then why do Muslim migrate to countries that are not ruled by Islam? very simple to root themselves out and try to change the nations laws

In Islam, loyalty is to Allah and his religion. It cannot be to a kafir country. As the former mufti of the Grand Mosque in Mecca put it in a recent fatwa, "His homeland may be not Islamic, so how can he be loyal to his homeland?"

Scholar Jamal Badawi insists that, "Muslims should not melt in any pot except the Muslim brotherhood pot."

Is again the islamic laws to embrace other nations laws and to become part of the nations that are none Islamic way of live.

Islam teaches that nations are in one of two major categories - Dar-al Harb (house of war) and Dar-al-Islam (Muslim rule). Any nation that is not Muslim is therefore, by definition, at war with Islam (or, at best, in contradiction to the preferred order). Muslims cannot be expected to maintain loyalty to a nation that is at war with their religion.

Again why move to countries that are not of Muslim believes and Islamic law?Because they are in agenda of changing countries law to Islam

To be fair, some Muslim scholars contend that there is a middle ground, Dar al-Ahd (land of covenant) or Dar al-Sulh (land of truce), in which non-Muslim countries agree to allow Muslims to practice their faith and evangelize freely in exchange for peace (rights that are formally denied to infidels in Islamic lands). Scholars consider this a transitional period leading to the eventual triumph of Islam via conversion.

Plain and simple to understand.

Even a government of Muslims is not necessarily a Muslim government. Islam requires Islamic law, therefore theocracy is the only pure form of government. In fact, this is what propels the vast majority of violence in the Muslim world, which victimizes Muslims themselves more than any other group.

Although Muslim apologists sometimes claim that Islamic terrorists aren't Muslim by virtue of the fact that they kill other Muslims, the Qur'an advocates striving against both unbelievers and hypocrites, the latter of which are Muslims who profess Islam, but do not support Islamic rule over the way of the infidel as required (see Muslim 20-4696).

Hypocrites include any government which does not uphold strict Sharia, as well as those that make alliances with a non-Muslim country (thereby making covenants and truces quite difficult to legitimize). This is the real reason terrorists kill fellow Muslims, particularly local police, troops and officials who are in the service of such governments.

.www.thereligionofpeace.com...

The foremost duty of Islam in this world is to depose Jahiliyyah (unbelievers) from the leadership of man, and to take the leadership into its own hands and enforce the particular way of life which is its permanent feature."

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Now, see why somebody like me have a problem with the Mass. Islamic holiday? that is because it smells of agenda like crap.

edit on 8-11-2011 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)

Ha, believing this crap is true would be the same as believing that Christians still go around stoning people for having premarital sex and wearing polyester.

Edit: I mean it's in the Bible, therefore all of the Christians must do it right?

Originally posted by AllUrChips
So I didnt know where to post this mods please move accordingly. This is TOO FAR to me. What is going on in the US. We have become a nation of sissies. Whatever happened to ethnocentrism being a POSITIVE thing for a country?! We should not be letting this to affect the way we do things in THIS country, If they want to celebrate the holiday, then stay home, like the jews do when they have a holiday not celebrated in this country! This is an outrage Im sorry.
www.theblaze.com...

The article said that there was a large muslim population in the district, so even if they did stay home the school probably would've closed on that day anyways. I really don't see any point to this story other than to enrage anti-muslim bigots which given the source of this article (The Blaze), really wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

Originally posted by AllUrChips
Also I noticed a show coming out on TLC called american muslim? Just the trailer really upset me the way they are trying to bring their sharia law to this country. Look, your welcome to immigrate here, or practice your countries ways as long as it falls within the peramiters of US LAW. Period!

edit on 7-11-2011 by AllUrChips because: (no reason given)

1. You're most likely lying.
2. If 1 is the case, then this show was targeted towards people like you.

reply to post by goldcoin


Muslims are required to pray at certain times during the day, Christians can pray whenever they want.


You hypocrite , there is a seperTion of church and state period, screw them , this country has been pissing and moaning about christians and Jews blurring this line with thousands of law suits from the ACLU , Athiests and all others opposed to God. Now the muslims come along being this small minority in this country and all of a sudden its ok to pray in school with separate rooms and designated times . This is wrong and the hypocrisy from the far left allowing this makes me sick . It seems to me Satan has things under control .

reply to post by My.mind.is.mine


This is from the Qur'an

9:5 And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

4:171O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught ... ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) ...


9:29Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor ... forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) ... the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. ...

This is Islam. Do not "true" muslims follow this?


But how can I trust you if you are a "true" muslim? When you are taught to lie?

16:106 Whoever disbelieves in Allah after his belief... except for one who is forced [to renounce his religion] while his heart is secure in faith. But those who [willingly] open their breasts to disbelief, upon them is wrath from Allah , and for them is a great punishment;

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
The status of Hadith in Islam is that if a Hadith contradicts the Qur'an it is null and void.

Perhaps you can point out where the Koran contradicts the Bukhari (11:626) in which Muhammad ordered people burnt for not praying?

You wanted the Koran quoted?

Perhaps Muhammads most notorious jihad was the beheading of 800 male Jews of the Banu Qurayza tribe.

The Koran refers to the murder of the Jews (suwar 33:26 & 33:27).

33:26 He also brought down their allies among the people of the scripture from their secure positions, and threw terror into their hearts. Some of them you killed, and some you took captive.

33:27 He made you inherit their land, their homes, their money, and lands you had never stepped on. God is in full control of all things.

Note the above source is The authorized translation of the Koran.

www.submission.org...

A more comprehensive explanation is that of Ibn Ishaq.

Ibn Ishaq was a devout Muslim historian and was the author of the first biography about Muhammad - Sirat Rasul Allah - "Life of God's Messenger" in 768 AD. He provided details about the episode mentioned in sura 33:26 & 33:27.

www.archive.org...

From page 84 & 85 of Ibn Ishaq's autobiography about Muhammad

"The apostle of Allah imprisoned the Qurayza in Medina while trenches were dug in the market-place.

Then he sent for the men and had their heads struck off so that they fell in the trenches.

They were brought out in groups, and among them was Kab, the chief of the tribe. In number, they amounted to six or seven hundred, although some state it to have been eight or nine hundred.

All were executed. One man turned to his people and said, 'It matters not! By God's will, the children of Israel were destined for this massacre!’ Then he seated himself and his head was struck off...

...Now the apostle distributed the property of the Banu Qurayza, as well as their women and children, to the Muslims, reserving one-fifth for himself. Every horseman received three shares, one for himself and two for his steed, and every foot soldier one share. There were thirty-six horses present on the day of the Qurayza.

The apostle dispatched an emissary to Najd with the prisoners, to barter them as slaves in exchange for horses and camels. The apostle of Allah selected one of the Jewish women, Rayhana, for himself, and she remained with him as his slave until she died .

He had suggested marriage to her, that she should wear the veil (to separate her from all other persons, as his wives did), but she replied, 'Rather allow me to remain thy slave; it will be more easy for me, and for thee.

The koran itself refers to the killing of the Jews and the confiscation of their property by Muhammad, blessed be his name.

The devout Muslim, Ibn Ishaq who wrote the first biography of Muahmmad went into more detail -

The beheading of 800 Jewish males and the enslavement of the women and children by Muhammad. Blessed be his name.