ATS and OWS: What the heck, ATS?

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


What you have ranted about is articulated,thought provoking and most of all in the right direction. I am new to ATS and have only recently found out these types of forums existed. So through my recently discovered outlet im finally quenching my thirst for truth and knowledge but i still find myself playing catch up to the rest. Even though my lack of education, and i will add i have no GCSEs which is the equivalent to SAT or ACT in the US. Also i am a boy from a council estate( a tough neighbourhood ). Taking my predicament into consolidation i would say i qualify to be as common as the 99% can get. BUT with all my limitations i have NOT let the media sway me. I find it hard to believe more educated people than me have either circum or sold out to such media. They have been demonizing main stream media for so many years. Or is it the demonizing of the media is only said not to be believed when it suits there argument. I am aware of propaganda and how most rallys or out crys can win wars or lose wars quicker and more effective than a bomb. I cant see how ANY person can not be against Inequality and the true overall influence the super wealthy have on OUR OWN lives. People lack the knowledge on how to connect the dots to why they are for OWS and this gets attacked often by media and ATSers. Let me quote something i posted

The 99% and there individual back round are so diverse there preaching and reasons may differ for being a part of the OWS such as school fees, jobless prospects, retirement funds and so on

A quick qoute about the 1% because this gets lost to media and ATSers say we just hate rich people

are people who control most of the worlds assets in the form of ,money like banks and the fed which in turn control your finical life these affects of greed affects the average family's life limitedly and is easy to see to all.Then comes the geopolitics oil ,gas,etc. The individuals who influence the play of geopolitics and the control of natural resources, This part is more on a wider scale it effects country's through staged wars and creating enemies through propaganda which in turn causes rifts between country s which manifest into hatred then takes a life of it own. THEN the conglomerations move in. It is not the rich who have millions its the rich who have trillions who have the forms of influence that call the shots above our government's this is the true 1%.

Now when thinking about how all this affects you take this example in to considration heres my quote from another thread

Whole towns were once reliant on factory's theses factory's were the heart and soul of these towns. The population of these towns were hard working middle class who worked in the factory's for generations. Until the factory's decided to move the company's abroad due to cheaper labour costs. Now you have towns full of unemployed. Which in turn they lose there homes and materiel possessions so people have to relocate, schools close lack of pupils,so more family's relocate in the end you end up with a once middle class town resembling a ghost town. this population now has now prospect of a better life due to greed by 1% RIPPLE AFFECT

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

funny how quickly your photo was "debunked"
but my world map of the occupy movements/activities worldwide got no response at all

sort of how a lot of folks are ignoring the indisputable fact that the zetas released their hostage,
thus conceding defeat.

:sigh: sometimes i consider changing my username to
TheElephantInTheRoom

Wrong.

Its not hard to see the many cities that Occupy is in. Not wrong to say there are thousands. What wrong is to say that this is a Arab Spring moment,cause I dont see MILLIONS of people or MASS Chaos in the streets before,and if you read your news,after.

The Zetas might have released their hostage,but for a group that "claims" justice for all,they sure look like a group that doesn't have the ability to sacrifice one of their own,for the sake of it.Figures, when you HIDE behind a MASK,and a Computer.Old "Guido' Fawkes had NO problem jumping from the gallows,but these internetz champions of justice,with ALL their power cant release the names of known killers,and murders,Businessmen,and associates,with more money then probably the banks have and money that's funneled into the banks ! Irony,hey ?

edit on 5-11-2011 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)

with all due respect you are advocating human sacrifice, MAJOR Part of The Problem,

if the hostage had "sacrificed" himself by jumping out a window or any other way, that would have been moral, why? because he valued spilling the beans on the zetas more than his own life. Anon chose to not abandon/sacrifice the hostage how is that immoral?
and since when has keeping ones word/end of the deal become reprehensible?

when Bradley Manning got sent to Mil.Prison there was much hooing and hawing about wiki abandoning him,
i'll assume you are consistent and were not among that crowd

it's easy to call for sacrifices when its not you being thrown into a furnace.

as for Fawkes masks; just the most recent form of an idea.

here's an older if not the original, and for your further education,
courtesy of Serenissima The Serene Republic

Bauta

Bauta (sometimes referred to as baùtta) is the whole face, with a stubborn chin line, no mouth, and lots of "gilding". One may find masks sold as Bautas that cover only the upper part of the face from the forehead to the nose and upper cheeks, thereby concealing identity but enabling the wearer to talk and eat or drink easily. It tends to be the main type of mask worn during the Carnival. It was used also on many other occasions as a device for hiding the wearer's identity and social status. It would permit the wearer to act more freely in cases where he or she wanted to interact with other members of the society outside the bounds of identity and everyday convention. It was thus useful for a variety of purposes, some of them illicit or criminal, others just personal, such as romantic encounters.

In 18th century, the Bauta had become a standardized society mask and disguise regulated by the Venetian government.[3][4] It was obligatory to wear it at certain political decision-making events when all citizens were required to act anonymously. Only citizens had the right to use the Bauta. Its role was similar to the anonymizing processes invented to guarantee general, direct, free, equal and secret ballots in modern democracies.

It was not allowed to wear weapons along with the mask, and police had the right to enforce this ruling.

source en.wikipedia.org...
it was also known by the names/titles of:
1-The Great Leveler and
2- The Common Man
More pictures www.google.com.pr...:en-USfficial&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&so urce=univ&sa=X&ei=Nvq1TubQMs6utwfbh6SxDA&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1400&bih=815&sei=%20b_21TpexMMjy0gG92_jQBA

reply to post by SaturnFX

LL
The Hordes of GuLP= GLP
TCOTBIP= the custodians of the black iron prison; AKA:TPTB, the Overlords of Entropy [tip o' the hat to JP Zodeux].

The time has supposedly arrived, the prayers supposedly answered...and you're honestly baffled that the response has been a bit of a back-step??


Sounds like basic humanity to me.
That whole "Be careful what you wish for as you might just get it" chestnut...



I've got a mate who always talks about coming out hunting with me.
He's keen as mustard to tramp alongside me for days out into the back of beyond, 'bag himself a big Buck' and carry it proudly on his shoulders all the way back out again.

Opportunities come, phonecalls to him get made, and so too come the excuses...
"I'm out of town that week"
"Bro, recovering from a Rugby injury, legs still a bit sore"
"Gotta stay home as I'm expecting family to drop some day over that time"

...the idea of it is likely more palatable than the impending arrival of the hardwork and effort to bring that idea to fruition...



So too I have another friend. He's an pretty cool guy, like him lots, but boy does he talk smack ten-to-the-dozen.
He had his place broken into a while back. He was understandably peeved to say the least. Vented and vowed that if he ever caught the sum-b he'd do them all manner of evil.


Last month apparently that sum-b came back for another go.
Sum-b got caught by my friend.
Friend calls me and asks what he should do...I told him to just call the Cops, no point doing anything silly to the guy as he'd likely spend way more time behind bars than Mr Burglar Sum-B.
"Yeah, true, I'll call the Cops. Lucky for him though, I would have buried him in lots of different places otherwise"




...when the wish is granted...some do, some don't...thats just how it is.
And ultimately everyone has to make their own choice for their own reasons...and really, no point hating on them for the choice they make...it's theirs so theirs to live with...either option they take...

reply to post by libertytoall


And who was in the government pushing CRA along?
Who was in the government pushing to stop regulation of OTC Derivatives?

Wall Street Banksters!

Tell me why can't I find 13 Banksters in an uproar with the creation of CRA, like the uproar they created when Brooksley Born tried to regulate OTC Derivatives?
No, there were Wall Street Banksters with smug grins on their face the day CRA was signed in.
When Clinton added the minority clause, I'll bet the banksters said, "Nice Touch" as they greedily rubbed their hands and licked their chops.

"I walk into Brooksley'***s office one day; blood has drained from her face," says Michael Greenberge***r, a former top official at CFTC who worked closely with Born. "She's hanging up the telephone; : 'That was Assistant Treasury Secretary] Summers. He says, "You're going to cause worst financial crisis since "... [He says he has] 13 bankers in his office who informed him of this. Stop, right away. No more.'"

So spare me the lie that the poor banksters were forced with a gun to go along with CRA. They own the government!

Look at Larry Summers, Robert Rubin, Ben Bernanke, all have ties, or were former Wall Street Execs.

It does not make any sense what is going on with those against OWS.

The "right" that is against Obama, should also be against his Wall Street Admin Team, and well as all the Banksters that have bought and paid for him and should be protesting on Wall Street against Obama's masters.

But, their willing to overlook that part because the hypocrites know that both sides serve the same masters.

I appreciate that someone had the GNADS to point out the absolute hypocrisy regarding ATS users and the OWS movement. It's really a joke. I hope we can all understand that the OWS movement has a sensible foundation. But when ATS is fanatically masturbating to this OWS MSNBC/Al Sharpton endorsed main-stream media followers cry for more money, it gets a little-- stupid. This website can be surprisingly one sided on what should be an open forum for the vigilant citizens. Let the herd go to the slaughter house. They're apparently all over the damn place, including this place- where the majority of us go to rid ourselves of said herd. It's funny. It's really the automatons going at it. Let them. Real is real.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I stand my ground on this and still do not see anyone declaring that corporatism has to end, only that the collusion between one legal artifice and another has to somehow stop. How, nobody knows, but what they all seem to instinctively know is that they are not ready to do away with corporatism because they want the good paying jobs that corporatism can provide, providing that government makes them provide this. The free and unregulated market is given no credence and all eggs are placed in the basket of heavily regulated markets and everyone wants people like me to stop being such purists and go into agreement that this business as usual can be fairly called a free market. It ain't a free market and hasn't been ever since either one of us have been born. The purist me argues that the U.S. has never seen a true and free unregulated market at all.

I have said corporation need to end and be replaced with something more akin to a Co-op.

Corporations having more rights than the citizens is a broken system.

The film "The Corporation" covers this very well, and others make the point very well.

Some of the ppl at the Occupy movement have this mindset as well.

Some of the ppl at the Occupy movement are paid to be there by various "Alinksy method" groups.

If you can't take over a movement then you discredit it, and alot of ppl on here are buying into
the MSM propaganda they see on TV.

Maybe its the chemical in the water combined with the fact ppls brains enter into a trance like state
while watching TV.

Glad I stopped watching TV years ago.

Originally posted by Cuervo

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Isn't this like me asking why you won't support the Tea Party?

Because it's obviously not politics you identify with.

Why don't a lot of people side by OWS?

Because they don't identify with the politics. And that's exactly what it is... politics. Really not that surprising?

The Tea Party has never done anything like this. They "rally" and stuff but they never occupied the federal reserve. Instead they often rallied for social issues. If they amassed tens of thousands of people and actually did something like OWS is doing, they'd have public support. I would support the Tea Party if they did this even though I find many of the things they stand for repulsive.

So, in short, nobody supported the Tea Party occupying because the Tea Party hasn't occupied anything. Sorry to break it to you guys.

Nobody has or will occupy the Federal Reserve but the bankers. It is a silly notion anyway. Much like the vague and meaningless "yes we can" slogan someone used to sway people into believing hope and change.

This is stereo typin, generalization makin heaven in this thread.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Noam Chomsky is a leftist anarchist socialist, so you just outed yourself as one. Thanks

Yeah, well, it is too bad for you then that virtually all of what is considered to be perennial wisdom ends up sounding, to people like you, like something based on a 'leftist', 'anarchist' or 'socialist' ideology.

You should consider an overhaul of your lexicon.

But I am interested , you have my attention now.

If I am a leftist, anarchist, socialist; what are you then that stands in opposition to these things?

Thanks in advance.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Tks. OP
That about sums it up.

In the near decade I have been giving ATS my attention, I have noticed common refrains passing through this place, day in and day out.

"The system is broken."
"When are the people going to do something?"
"How much can they take?"
"There ought to be a revolution."
"The media is bought."
"Both parties are corrupt in America."
"We won't stand for the NWO."
etc., etc., etc.

Originally posted by 5 oClock
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Tks. OP
That about sums it up.

In the near decade I have been giving ATS my attention, I have noticed common refrains passing through this place, day in and day out.

"The system is broken."
"When are the people going to do something?"
"How much can they take?"
"There ought to be a revolution."
"The media is bought."
"Both parties are corrupt in America."
"We won't stand for the NWO."
etc., etc., etc.

If he was being really honest he would have added:

"Deny Ignorance"
"Get out of my thread"
"How much are your handlers paying you?"
"Don't worry they are just a sock puppet/disinfo agent"

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I'll tell you OP what's behind it and it makes me so mad. ATS as a whole (not all of us. Myself and some people I talk to on a regular basis aren't like this) loves everything to be a conspiracy. I think for the most part the people here are paranoid. If the media or majority says one thing we have to say something else. Actually I take that back. We aren't paranoid. We're hipsters!

"I thought the system was broken before it was cool"

Anyways it makes me so mad.

Originally posted by relpobre000
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

You've made a huge jump in your argument (from a logical standpoint). You've insinuated that if I don't support this kid's free University education that I am in full support of the corporate bail outs in America.

I'm not sure I understand how you came to this conclusion. You've highlighted another short coming of the movement: the 'if you don't agree with this point you kill kittens' tactic.

Please take the time to re-read my post. I accused you of nothing of the sort. I did say you obviously buy into the notion that he wants "something for nothing." However the thing about corporate bailouts? That's what the media is telling you is just awesome. If you don't buy into it, that's great. But i have to wonder. Are you doing anything proactive about that problem, or are you just content to gripe about people who are?

I support neither socialized university education nor did I support the bail outs these companies received from the United States Government. During the aftermath of the subprime mortgage crisis I wrote letters to my local, state, and federal representatives--as well as voted--which is more action than most people within this movement have taken.

edit on 5-11-2011 by relpobre000 because: grammar

Well, it's hard to vote in a non-voting year, don't you think? And i believe you would be very surprised at the lengths these folks have gone to try to be heard. So, question - ansd answer honestly here - did your letters and votes get you the results you wanted? Why do you think you got whatever results were received?

Typical OWS BS...



So if the small dwindling movement feels a little heat or resistance here at ATS it means it's an obvious plot by the diabolical Neocons.

This should be moved to the RANT section in my opinion.


Pathetic
No wonder most people don't take them seriously.

reply to post by drew1749


Personally I think I am just scared. I have been told my whole life to be afraid of everything, boogie man, Santa Clause, God, Teachers, Parents, Government, Boss, Child Molesters, Drug Dealers, Gang members, now Terrorists, Muslims, Planes, Bombs, my Neighbors, Anonymous, Computer Viruses, Chemtrails, Heart Disease, Cancer, Death.

Of course I am not going to go out in the street and try and fight the police. Im too F'ing scared to do anything.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I've seen OWS point out a lot of problems, but I've not seen them offer any solutions to our problems.

Except to vote Democrat.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


You actually bring up yet another complaint from the many who do not support this "OWS" movement, and that is the unrestrained proclivity to dismiss anyone who disagrees with the movement as "sheeple" who've been indoctrinated by the "MSM". Lord knows how many times I am accused of being a "FOX News" adherent, and no one cares a whit that I can count on one hand the number of times I have actually watched this news station. I, to this day, have never seen a Glenn Beck segment, I do not like Bill O'reily or Hannity, and the whole lot of them, when preeningly attempting to present themselves as "conservatives" strike me as a bunch of pathetic posers.

Even so, if I am not willing to agree with this movement, or if I defend capitalism, or if I defend the rights of individuals and insist that what the Bill of Rights say's Congress cannot do, then Congress cannot do it, I am accused of being a corporate schill, tool, or a FOX News acolyte. Those who share similar ideals as I do know precisely what I am talking about, and all of us are supposed to somehow cow-tow to this insidious ad hominem fest and hang our heads in shame, reject our carefully thought out ideals and join a confused movement.

When more people engage in discussion much like Memory Shock has, instead of just dismissing the opposing view as being a product of indoctrination by broadcast media, this "movement" will start getting more respect, but this petulance and outrageous characterizations of those who have done nothing other than offer up valid criticisms and questions will not help push this movement towards any more productivity than a simple bowel movement can handle.

The Corporation was an entertaining movie that made compelling points, but it is also a documentary that offered up as fact legends that have no basis in truth. It was the movie the Corporation that popularized the current belief that the Supreme Court declared corporations a "person" in Santa Clara County v Pacific Railroad Co., but this is demonstrably false. What was said in Santa Clara was not holding, but merely dicta and dicta is not holding. It was never held, under the Supreme Courts ruling in Santa Clara that corporations were people.

This is a major mistake for a documentary that wants to be treated as a method of truth telling. While not as gleefully shameful as Michael Moore, the Corporation allowed a lie to be presented as a truth, and this only undermines everything else that movie was attempting to accomplish.

Finally, replacing with corporations with co-ops is your ideas, and I certainly encourage you to flesh those ideas out, and in my not so humble opinion, you should use these boards to do so, but it is your posit, not mine. I want nothing at all to do with legal fictions of any kind, and have no interest in asking the state permission to do what would otherwise be a right to do. I do not need permission from the state in order to earn a living. I do that by right! I do not need any charter or DBA to earn a living, nor do I need to agree with any statutorily defined notions of "person" or "employee" or "employer", and by not acquiescing to this dubious regulatory schema, it does not make me any sort of outlaw.

What always astounds me about those who rail so much against capitalism, (and I am not saying you are), is that what seems to be missed is that under capitalism, any group can go and form their own co-op, and if they so choose, on a small scale they can implement a community that abides wholly and unabashedly by communist principles and there would be nothing about capitalism that would prevent this, but flip the coin, and try and be a small group of capitalists within a communist society and see how tolerant the communists will be with those capitalists.

If the theory, policy or legislative acts impede the free and unregulated market, then expect all efforts to keep a market stable fall into disarray and instability. This is not to say that free and unregulated markets will not have their own periods of instability, only that this instability will not be caused by outside agents and nefarious means. Why anyone would devise policies to avoid instability anyway, is beyond me. Where Stone wrote Gekko's "greed is good speech" to illustrate the evils of capitalism, if I wrote Gekko, he wouldn't be claiming that it was greed that marked the upward surge of humanity, Gekko would be arguing that it was instability and humanities ingenious response to it that has marked the upward surge of humanity.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by nenothtu

Are you quite certain you want to hold up a budding military dictatorship promoting the genocide of a religious minority as a shining example of the sort of "progress" you espouse?

Sure........Change your mask to a Guido Fawkes one,and you too will have the power to feel this way........


I couldnt resist Nenothtu............

No problem!

Leonidas has been taking a lot of hits of late from posters who can't seem to find a flaw in my logic to attack, and so have to resort to an assault on the Avatar to save face, so I've been planning a change. I can't go the Fawkes route, though, considering the current OWS association it has - that would just be too confusing for ATSers who have developed a fond sort of hatred for me over time.

I suppose the Fawkes mask is a youth thing. When I was a kid it was Duncan Yo Yos, but every generation has it's own fads. This OWS fad strikes me as a bit more dangerous than most, since it can't get itself organized and aimed. That's an open invitation to takeover by folks who will bring organization and purpose to it, but the kids, they can't listen to us old farts who have been there, done that, and got the T shirt. They think they know better, and have all the answers, as everyone does when they are too young to know any better, but time will reveal all to them.

When it does, some of us old farts will probably still be around to watch them try to warn their own kids about The Next Great Thing, and we'll giggle behind our hands at them, as our parents are doing to us at this very instant!

reply to post by MaximosPoena


I know right?! i was going to make a comment but it doesn't really matter because a few members are having a good go at this right now, so I think this thread is officially taken over at the moment. OWS

1. Occupy ATS
2. Whine that your stance on the issue is the right one
3. Seethe because other people don't agree with you

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

I've seen OWS point out a lot of problems, but I've not seen them offer any solutions to our problems.

Except to vote Democrat.

And i see you often griping about crime, but I'll bet you've never arrested anyone. You point out bad legislation, but aren't running for office, are you? Maybe your shoes pinch your feet, I don't see you opening a shoe company. And the reason is simple - it's not your job, is it? The police are there to handle crime when we call on it. The politicians are there to follow our voices when we see a problem. The company is there to provide the best quality for its consumers (ideally, in all three cases - reality is, of course, rather different.)

That said, though, there are numerous solutions being floated. Name a problem, there's a solution for it.

The trouble you might be having is that while none of these solutions are actually "Vote Democrat," none of them are "vote republican," either. None of them call for even more punishment being heaped on people for being poor, or rewards given to people for being rich. So maybe the solutions just sail under your radar, since you don't consider htem "real solutions."