NKorean Prison Camp Survivor: Starving Women Cooked & Ate Their Own Children

Part of me wonders what N Korea is really like. I mean, it is common knowlege to us that they give disinfo to their citizens making their country, and their allies seem like the best countries on earth, and make the US and their allies out to be the devil.

Since NK has closed borders to us, how are we to know what things are like there? The only information we have from them is from the gov't and a Brittish tv station. Things could be much different there than what we currently believe.

We cornered them and are starving them to death.

There are very few North Koreans alive right now. Officially they say 10 million but I doubt that.



They can't go to the sea and get food because China, Japan, and South Korea have dredge netted that portion of the sea DEAD...no more fish.

North Korea can't afford diesel for fishing boats to venture out further in search of sea food.

They're cornered and either they EAT THEMSELVES....or they fight for their survival and attack those below them who've been stripping the SEA in their area of food.

Why North Korea hasn't attacked South Korea yet to get food is beyond me. They're dead either way

There is a reason no one is allowed to leave that hellhole. Because if anyone was allowed to leave, that short fat bastard would be ruling over a country of no one.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Not everybody wants to be slaves to money, not everybody wants to live in class-states. Some people in the world still resist it and I stand by anyone willing to stand up to those who believe they own us all because their wallets are bigger. North Korea is no exception.

You are just blinded by your ideology, IMHO. Because you consider one thing wrong, does not make another wrong all right.

North Korea is not communist utopia, nor is it class-less. It is a wicked dictatorship abusing the people horribly. If you are willing to stand by this, then I am disgusted.

My ideology? What ideology is that exactly?

I fail to see how I am blinded by ideology, when I exist on a whole different spectrum than simple left vs right argument. I believe in progression, not repression. Those who make great claims about progressing the world by bombing other countries and assassinating dissidents only fortify adversaries into isolation.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

I believe in progression, not repression.

Yet you seem to have little problem with north Koreans being repressed by their own illegitimate government.

Those who make great claims about progressing the world by bombing other countries and assassinating dissidents only fortify adversaries into isolation.

You cannot expect the world to stay silent in face of such failed countries. I am no fan of non-intervenionism and looking the other way. Thats not progress, thats stagnation and regress. War is sometimes lesser of two evils.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

I believe in progression, not repression.

Yet you seem to have little problem with north Koreans being repressed by their own illegitimate government.

Those who make great claims about progressing the world by bombing other countries and assassinating dissidents only fortify adversaries into isolation.

You cannot expect the world to stay silent in face of such failed countries. I am no fan of non-intervenionism and looking the other way. Thats not progress, thats stagnation and regress. War is sometimes lesser of two evils.

The world? No, the US. It is the US that has surrounded North Korea for 50 years and has tried to provoke it into either war or collapse by starving it through sanctions. You cry about the harsh conditions in North Korea yet you don't seem to have a problem with the US manipulating the UN into limiting the amount of food going into North Korea, or limiting North Korean trade entirely. In fact, it seems like North Korea has been forced into a dependancy on American food aid, and the DPRK has to extensively ration food when the US won't hand it over.

Then pro-warhawks such as yourself cry when the DPRK feeds its soldiers and politicians before their civilians. They couldn't even maintain their country or defend it from hostile foreigners if their government was starving. But the US enjoys strangling and starving North Korea just so it can make them out to be "evil" (quote from George Bush, who described any country not alligned with him as the "axis of evil"). Well gee, how could anyone morally support something "evil"?

Figuratively, this whole situation is akin to dangling a sandwich over a caged person. All they have to do is allow you to violate them inside and out for the promise of being let out of the cage, but it doesn't mean they will ever be free whatsoever; not with you inside of them anyways.

You want to see progression in North Korea? Pull the remaining 25,000 American soldiers, along with American naval warships and combat aircraft, out of Korean territory and let the Koreans figure it all out for themselves. But this won't happen, because the American military presence there is to ensure that nobody screws with the colonization of South Korea, known as a free-trade pact.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Then pro-warhawks such as yourself cry when the DPRK feeds its soldiers and politicians before their civilians.

The term you are looking for is called Songun. Its a good read and I highly reccomend you look it up, either through wikipedia or the North Korean sources, like Rodong Sinmun.

As for the rest, the war is not over as no peace treaty was ever signed. North Korea remains at war with South Korea, and the UN resolution dealing with the Korean war is still in effect, with the US being one of the countries involved.

If North Korea starves its their own damn fault. Maybe they should build farms instead of nuclear boms. Your typical argument of blaming the US for everything is humerous but sad. Withdraw troops from South Korea? Why should that happen. The decision to host american troops is the decision of the South Korean government and its people, not the North.

While your at it you should research China and its involvement in that war.

Source
Total size of North Korean military (active and reserves) - approx 10+ million
Total size of South Korean military (active and reserves) - approx 4 million (active duty is about 650k)
Total size of the US Military (active and reserves) - approx 3+ million

reply to post by Xcathdra


You're always acusing me of blaming the US for everything.

I only give credit where credit is due.

Besides, all of my sources happen to not paint modern fascist America in a friendly light. And by sources, I'm talking about books and other academic material, not sketchy internet sites (which happen to be all of them, in my opinion). I find some aspects of pre-Cold War America to be quite admirable, especially the original intent of the Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence, as well as a lot of the views of the founding fathers of American independence.

However, there is no room in my heart for warhawks who murder for profit and exploit for power. The US has waged wars of aggression ever since WWII in order to rise as an empire, and it has left nothing but death and destruction in its wake.

Personally, I prefer the DPRK to the Khmer Rouge. You may not realize this, but the Khmer Rouge were extremists her murdered over a quater of their own countrymen through their ideology. They were able to take over Cambodia because the country was devastated from the secret American campaign to level the country through carpet bombing and chemical warfare (Agent Orange). This was a deliberate attempt by the Americans to ensure that Cambodia would not have a successful economy, and managed to destroy over 80% of Cambodia's forest sector. The poverty brought on from economic hardship, combined with both the health defects of Agent Orange and bombed infrastructure, allowed brutal extremists the chance to rise to power by promising a utopia (while delivering dystopia).

The Khmer Rouge was supported by the US, because as long as their brutal forces were enslaving and murdering Cambodians, they weren't progressing communist ideology.

This is but one example of many instances where the US has created nightmare scenerios for entire countries, all for the sake imperial dominance. It is instances like in Cambodia that have helped fortify regimes like in the DPRK.

You can sit there and accuse me of being anti-American all that you want, but I don't think that you're able to disprove facts like Cambodia.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
You're always acusing me of blaming the US for everything.

I only give credit where credit is due.

Lol if you did this, you would list other countries besides just the US. What you do is blame, not give credit, to the US for every injustice you perceive in the world. Thats your point of view, and thats fine, no matter how wrong and blind it is.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Besides, all of my sources happen to not paint modern fascist America in a friendly light. And by sources, I'm talking ...snipped for length.

Which we still have and maintain to this day.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
However, there is no room in my heart for warhawks who murder for profit and exploit for power. The US has waged wars of aggression ever since WWII in order to rise as an empire, and it has left nothing but death and destruction in its wake.

Nor is their any type of objectivity in your heart either. You said it yourself you blame the US for everything, while in the same breath denying it. Blaming the US for the decisions of other governments is in the realm blind hatred. The blind hatred you have for the US clouds your objectivity, placing your argument into the realm of porpoganda to put in mildly. You dismiss anything coming from western media with regards to the US, as well as any information that doesnt support your view of the US.

Going back to the 17th light dragoons.....

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Personally, I prefer the DPRK to the Khmer Rouge. You may not realize this, but the Khmer Rouge were extremists her murdered over a quater of their own countrymen through their ideology. ...snipped for length

Of course the Khmer rouge was evil and those people have Pol Pot to blame. If we want to delve into history we could maybe blame the Chinese for the Khmer rouge, since pol pot was chinese. Either way oit doesnt change history for him, or even for hitler.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The Khmer Rouge was supported by the US, because as long as their brutal forces were enslaving and murdering Cambodians, they weren't progressing communist ideology.

Nazi Germany was supported by other countries, China supports North Korea, Russia supports Iran and Syria. Again your bias towards America is showing through. Where was Canada and your perceived moral superiority of Canada, when that was going on? Where were you and Canada when Hussein was killing his own people, or when Iran walked school children through minefields to clear them for advancing Iranian troops?

You are either in for a penny or in for a pound. Making distinctions based on Americas involvement goes to the heart of your problem.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
This is but one example of many instances where the US has created nightmare scenerios for entire countries, all for the sake imperial dominance. It is instances like in Cambodia that have helped fortify regimes like in the DPRK.

Again, blmaing the US for every problem in the world is a copout. As Is aid above, where were you prior to US involvement in these countries? Where were you afterwards? Where are you when it comes to other countries, maybe like Russia and Chechnya, or China in Sudan?

You save your "judging" for the US and only the US, which is biased. You do blame the US for everything while excusing the very crimes you rail against when its in a country the Us is not involved.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
You can sit there and accuse me of being anti-American all that you want, but I don't think that you're able to disprove facts like Cambodia.

IU dont think your able to disprove the fact your anti American. All thats needed is for you to go back and read your posts and you see it plain as day.

Sometimes its difficult to see the trees while your standing in the middle of the forest. In this case when dealing with the US, you have made permanent camp in the forest and see nothing but the US.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I'm just going to say this. US foreign policy is a primary focus to me because I cannot escape it. It is all over TV, it is all over books, it is all over my education; it's everywhere. It is the prevalent issue that affects the entire globe.

I am quite aware that there are other empires and nationstates than just the US that do work against the common good of humanity. However, they are not doing it on nearly the same scale and rarely do they have to lie about it.

My personal contention with the US is how it moans on about spreading "democracy" and "liberty" to the people that it bombs, when the US itself is nothing more than a sham democracy that is ultimately plutocratic, veiled fascism. The US government has been hijacked by the private interests of the elite and its military and intelligence organizations work for corporate interests. They have become a dangerous entity to all people who oppose corporate and imperial dominance, and they will only continue to go down the slippery slope while dragging us down with it.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I'm just going to say this. US foreign policy is a primary focus to me because I cannot escape it. It is all over TV, it is all over books, it is all over my education; it's everywhere. It is the prevalent issue that affects the entire globe.

Which in all honesty is a personal problem of yours, and has nothing to do with anything but your perceived issue with it. As for the rest, take your argument up with your government if you feel there is too much reference to the US. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean everyone else feels the same.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I am quite aware that there are other empires and nationstates than just the US that do work against the common good of humanity. However, they are not doing it on nearly the same scale and rarely do they have to lie about it.

Thats because when you line up the countries who are willing to try and do good, the US is at the top of that list. Countries whill moan and groan about the US, while in the next breath expect us to give out billions or deploy troops to some 3rd world crap hole that no one else gives a damn about. At the end of the day, thoise same countries who complained about no action being taken all of a sudden complain about the action.

I would be more than happy to see the US pull all troops home, close down all bases, and let countries in the world duke it out themselves. If we use history as a guide there were 2 wars where the US tried to remain neutral - WWi and WWII. Since we had to clean that mess up, in addition to rebuilding the countries involved, we take a more proactive approach in an attempt to head a major porblem off before it gaines traction. 2 world wars is enough.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
My personal contention with the US is how it moans on about spreading "democracy" and "liberty" to the people that it bombs, when the US itself is nothing more than a sham democracy that is ultimately plutocratic, veiled fascism.

The moaning and groaning would be coming from the countries in the example I listed above, where they demand on one hand we take action while condemn us for that actyion on the other. Secondly, and most importantly, the US is NOT a democracy - It is a representative Republic, and contrary to popular belief, there is a difference. As far as the veild facism I will chalk that up to your personal problems you have with the US that you superimpose on other issues.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
The US government has been hijacked by the private interests of the elite and its military and intelligence organizations work for corporate interests. They have become a dangerous entity to all people who oppose corporate and imperial dominance, and they will only continue to go down the slippery slope while dragging us down with it.

Swinging the pendulem back into the other direction you want, socialism, is not the answer either. Its easy to condemn and throw stones when your on the outside looking in. Its becomes worse when you throw stones with your eyes closed because you allow your personal view, and hatred for the US, to sneak into just about every topic you make, or every response in threads, even in ones that have nothing to do with the US.

Your are more than entitled to your opinion and anger towards the US. However, the paranoia and anger that you portray in threads dealing with the US diverts attention from the point your trying to make.

reply to post by Openeye


Um yeah , i squeezed flesh shrapnel from face. I have killed 8 muslims i have confirmed and have marked on my wrist keeping count. Lost 4 brothers , keeping count on them as well.

Im Christian and i love my God (Jesus Christ my Lord and savior) , however , i do not oppose war , War is a needed evil in my opinion. The sooner you realize your body is a tool and a weapon , the more efficient you will be on the battlefield. God forgives ... and me fighting a war that im ordered to .... is not a sin. Ill kill the enemy relentlessly if i could , however , i get shot at to and all those bullets dont miss.

Ill kill them , i could care less who i kill. Its not that hard .... you hear all those war stories on TV about people freezing up ... naw ... its not from killing people ... its easy , its losing your friends that hurt. Dont let hollywood confuse you.

I highly doubt you have seen War .. hell i would hate to know what a real War looked like , when you have 200,000 enemy soldiers that know how to use combined arms warfare ...... thats War ... this # in Afghanistan ....isnt war.


O and by the way ... the THOERY of EVOLUTION is not a Fact. It is a Theory and is in no way proven.

Originally posted by NeoVain
So the propaganda is already starting. Looks like North Korea will be the next target, for the troops withdrawing from Iraq.
You heard it here first.

The so called civilized world has known of these camps for years , they don't care because the country has nothing to offer. These testimonies are true , if a person commits a wrong over there his whole extended family is sent to the death camps. This country is by far one of the cruelest regimes to ever take place, it's evils have no bounds.

reply to post by Xcathdra


I find it funny how you act like I am alone in my "paranoia" and "hatred" of the US. I highly recommend that you explore geopolitical opinions outside of the US. The only people who like the US are neo-con/neo-lib types who are obsessed with the prospect of making money by exploiting others. Usually these people were raised in lives of priviledge and know nothing of hardship. My people certainly outnumber and outmatch them, the only thing is that most of the people on my side choose to ignore involvement in the politics of old men from past generations, and tend to live outside of the realm of the political sphere.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Alone? Not at all however your posts and my analysis of those poosts is accurate - hatred of the US permeates your view point. Instead of being objective, you lay blanket blame, and whats worse is its not based on any one incident, but based on the fact you just hate the US... There are many peope who hatre the US for personal reasons. Their opinions dont bother me in the least because what I stated stands. They will complain that the US does nothing, and then complain that the US interferes to much.

Im perfectly happy to hand off global peace keeping duties to Canada. Although if you guys do that then you will be forced to issue arrest warrants for your own Prime Minister. God forbid if that happens and you have no one else to blame but yourself.

As I said, you and Canada are more than welcome to take the lead. When you guys scrounge up 28k troops to replace ours in S. Korea let us know. Unless you would prefer all troops are withdrawn from there? At which point you would be advocating abandoning an ally of YOUR country, in addition to ignoring UN resolutions, and the simple fact a state of war still exists.

If you wish to take us to task, please take the time to do the research. The agenda you are pushing will accomplish the opposite of what you want.

have fun

Yes N. K is a prison state and their problems are all of their own making. There is a whole community of escapees living in S Korea, who have told their stories of everday life in the communist hellhole that is N.K.


This should be an instructive lesson for every leftist progressive, of what happens when your mind becomes trapped inside an idealogical framework - it is like falling into a black hole where you become cut off from the rest of the universe.


www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Alone? Not at all however your posts and my analysis of those poosts is accurate - hatred of the US permeates your view point. Instead of being objective, you lay blanket blame, and whats worse is its not based on any one incident, but based on the fact you just hate the US... There are many peope who hatre the US for personal reasons. Their opinions dont bother me in the least because what I stated stands. They will complain that the US does nothing, and then complain that the US interferes to much.

I have NEVER met anyone critical of the US when the US doesn't intervene somewhere, at least not in this decade when it is clear that when the US involves itself somewhere, it is because they have underlying motives for it (usually economic or military in nature).

Have you even read PNAC documents outlining American plans to reshape and rebuild the middle east in order to ensure American supremacy of the 21st century?

Im perfectly happy to hand off global peace keeping duties to Canada. Although if you guys do that then you will be forced to issue arrest warrants for your own Prime Minister. God forbid if that happens and you have no one else to blame but yourself.

1) The US doesn't engage in global peace keeping duties, or at least it is not readily apparent.
2) Canada doesn't engage in any peace keeping operations anymore because we are politically forced to fight beside Americans, and doing so consumes our military budget.
3) Unlike the US, Canada has ratified the International Criminal Court and if the Prime Minister authorizes war crimes, then they are fully subject to the consequences. Fortunately, Harper is more concerned about reshaping Canada than reshaping other countries.
4) If Harper was brought to trial in the ICC, I certainly wouldn't cry about it unless it was Americans who brought him there. There's dozens of US officials who should be tried in the ICC and sentenced for warcrimes but they are protected under Bush's meddling with congressional acts and American coercion against anyone supporting fair justice of the ICC.

As I said, you and Canada are more than welcome to take the lead. When you guys scrounge up 28k troops to replace ours in S. Korea let us know. Unless you would prefer all troops are withdrawn from there? At which point you would be advocating abandoning an ally of YOUR country, in addition to ignoring UN resolutions, and the simple fact a state of war still exists.

I thought that I made it clear that all foreign troops should clear out of Korea.

South Korea is a member of NATO? If not, then how are they my strategic ally?

Frankly if I had the power to make these decisions, my quest for world peace would start with withdrawal from the international imperialist terrorist organization known as NATO. Then I would reorganize my military for defensive posturing and to resume international peacekeeping.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


Ask Bosnian refugees living in the united states what they think about the US intervention..

That's all I have to say to you.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Ask Bosnian refugees living in the united states what they think about the US intervention..

That's all I have to say to you.

It's probably not the same view that Bosnians still living near the NATO-established Kosovo territory share. Am I right?

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


So the lives of Bosnian families saved mean nothing?

I didn't hear anything about Canada quelling a genocide... In fact... I've never heard of Canada really doing anything...

Nothing against Canadians but... it's currently (and has been for a while) policy for Canada to turn away refugees... and the ones that are given furlow are treated like swine...

Pot you too are black.

Border officials are summarily sending refugee claimants back to the U.S. in breach of Canada's duty to let them seek asylum, says the United Nations – and refugee advocates say the practice must stop.

The latest incident involves four refugees from Haiti and one from El Salvador who were sent back Monday to the U.S. from the Lacolle, Que., border point near Montreal.

"It is completely unacceptable for the Canadian government, based on its convenience, to turn away refugee claimants who are seeking our protection," said Amy Casipullai of the Canadian Council for Refugees.

Source

In fact Canada's policy is simply just to dump them in the US... Make them our problem..

So yes those left there may tell a different story.. but were it Canada... in would be "inconvenient" for you to even let them stay in the first place.