This Whole "Occupy Wallstreet" thing seems like theater of the absurd.

reply to post by Stormdancer777
Yea I read it. I still don't know why they didn't let him speak. I don't know what good he would have done. People seem fed up with the government. They probably don't want to hear from someone who is part of it. I don't know. Personally, the only speech I want given is "Drop out" repeated over and over again. The only reason I would go to an Occupy, besides being a statistic, is to network. I need bodies for our commune.

Originally posted by Honor93

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Cinaed

 

I'm not saying they need to just protest the gov. I am saying if they want to get to the real heart of the matter they need to protest the Federal Government and the FEDERAL RESERVE....

No they don't...because both the federal reserve and government are now run by Wall Street, and that's a FACT.

Talking to the government is like talking to a sock puppet or marionette, it would be silly. You want to directly go to the source of the issue, the puppet master...which is DEMONSTRABLY Wall Street.

it just doesn't get any funnier than that

The Federal Reserve run by wall street ... ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, haha
you keep believing though ... especially cause Rolling Stone says so

"Demonstrably" you say ?? well ok, show me.

edit on 8-10-2011 by Honor93 because: add txt

You might wanna read up on the author before making yourself look like a fool

reply to post by MrXYZ


Okay I did, he writes COMMETARY

en.wikipedia.org...

Seriously that made me laugh..... even harder

from the freedictionary.com

commentary [ˈkɒməntərɪ -trɪ] n pl -taries 1. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) an explanatory series of notes or comments 2. (Communication Arts / Broadcasting) a spoken accompaniment to a broadcast, film, etc., esp of a sporting event 3. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) an explanatory essay or treatise on a text 4. (Literary & Literary Critical Terms) (usually plural) a personal record of events or facts the commentaries of Caesar

Commentary is his opinion for the most part, no matter how informed you might find his opinion

OPINIONS are not necessarily facts....

i just got back from Occupy Philadelphia. All I can say is: Move Along. What a decrepit collection of rats. I asked everyone, searched for answers, tried to see what the movement was all about. They were all drunk or high, and rambled about the 99%, down with capitalism, legalize marijuana, and whatever else they could cling onto. I really tried to give them a chance to explain themselves, and nothing. Just the same useless repetition and them not knowing WHAT THE HELL they were talking about. OP hit the nail on the head. So disappointing.

I'm willing to say that a good 10% of this movement actually has something coherent to say, the rest are the usual people that come out to all of these rallies. All I encountered were crazy hippies and homeless people complaining. A lot of the kids I recognized from the nearby college campus, some attending the school free on their parents dime. I'm sorry but that was the last straw. I'm not sure how it is in other cities, but what I saw was embarrassing. There were a lot of tents and a lot of BS getting spouted about.

One man wildly exclaiming to me he was a better organizer and speech-giver than anyone else, then compared himself to Hitler. I asked what we should do with the system all they said was "abolish capitalism because it's run by greed!" I asked what we replace it with: they either said some type of Communism or they didn't actually know.

Originally posted by Shamatt
What I have learned though, is that perhaps there is an underlying thread - that the status quo is not acceptable

This is the part where you differ with those deriding the OWS. Those deriding the OWS believe the status quo is acceptable. That is the exact reason wht they diss the movement without offering any alternatives.

Because the status quo is acceptable to them, they want to ensure that any proposed change doesn't leave them at a disadvantage. These are the people who made many compromises to make the system work for them. They loathe a drastic change in the system that makes all their compromises meaningless. They have invested too much into the system to welcome it change.

Originally posted by gentledissident
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

Yea I read it. I still don't know why they didn't let him speak. I don't know what good he would have done. People seem fed up with the government. They probably don't want to hear from someone who is part of it. I don't know. Personally, the only speech I want given is "Drop out" repeated over and over again. The only reason I would go to an Occupy, besides being a statistic, is to network. I need bodies for our commune.

Can you guess what these guys would have been claiming if he were allowed to speak? They would claim that this is a partisan movement representing the Marxists in the democratic party. When he is not allowed to speak they claim it is Marxists burning their own

It was an extremely smart move by them not to let anyone who is part of the current establishment to appear to lead them in any way.

reply to post by LiberLegit

I am pleased it's about 10%...that means one in ten are actually paying attention! Let them see the read deal....let them learn

I think that's exciting news! I would hope for more but 10% is better than 5

I thought this would be a good thread to drop in this interesting photo...theatre


www.observer.com...

Heres another interesting sign...Obama is a centrist lol

www.observer.com...

Originally posted by EspyderMan

Originally posted by RandomThought
You guys obviously don't know what occupy wallstreet is all about. You think its all children then you are just plain and simple being ignorant. I'm not going to sit here and explain what its all about, its all over the web and easy to obtain information.

You think people are doing this because they don't want to work? are you kidding me?

You won't explain it because you can't, let's be realistic. Fact is this "movement" is all about rich vs poor. The poor are pissed at the rich for getting bailouts from the government and people are upset their governments are not transparent.

Do these marches express that to a layman? Nope not even close, most people I know who have not heard of this movement think the movement is a sad joke. Look outside your own realm and see what the window-peekers see, they see people being idiots not standing up for a firm belief.

I am not for the government bailing out rich people and taxing the poor more. I am not for any of that craziness, but I am also not siding with Anonymous half-assed messages either in the name of "Freedom".

Sure, shout freedom and how we don't have it (which we do) and watch the sheeple protest.

You're silly. The government created the financial problem by allowing wall street free reign as well as the real-estate paper scams.

The government allowed it because it was paid for by the corporations represented on wall street.

Therefore by protesting wall street, they impede the government. If it doesn't stop, the government will eventually have to do something.

Occupy Fort Myers, where I'm from, is protesting for the reinstatement of Glass Steagall. This directly affects WS and the WH....

I don't see how you could NOT get that?

reply to post by MrXYZ

hmmmmm, which Taibbi ... the new one or the old one ???
it's just more of the same old NBC so what's your point????

either way, you expect me to place any value in a paid, political mouthpiece ??
yeah ok, if you're that foolish, be my guest.

btw, credibility is seldom established on a "conspiracy" forum

reply to post by Laokin


re-instating "Glass-Steagal" ????
do you EVEN have a CLUE what that was or did or why it was repealed ??

where you even born when the Savings & Loan orchestrated collapse occurred ??

why would ANYONE expand the duties of the Beast (Glass-Steagal) that destroys you?

negotiating with the FedReserve is akin to negotiating with terrorists ... learn and be well.

Originally posted by Shamatt
reply to post by Cinaed

And

post by Honor93

 

Hi friends,

OK, I will gracefully bow out - perhaps just lurk here for a while and drop in with the odd rude (Sorry, meant intelligent) comment lol

You see, in order to hold a meaningfull conversation there needs to be at least a small patch of common ground. There is a little perhaps, but there is way too much that we dissagree on. We are all aware that there is no way any one of us will influence the others opinions or thoughts. And although it is good to give people with alternative opinions additional food for thought, I think we have already achieved that. So all that remains for this conversation now is a long roundabout ride with each os us (re)presenting our possition, and others rejecting that in order to promote their own.

Don't get me wrong. I am not dissing anyone, just comming to the realisation that having presented all our arguments we still dissagree. What I have learned though, is that perhaps there is an underlying thread - that the status quo is not acceptable - that the rich elite who's greed caused this crises should pay for it, not the 99% - that the banks should be serving the public, not manipulatin them for their own profit - that government should do what is best for the people, not what is best for themselves - on which we all agree. So I guess there is not much more between us than the method by which we as a people go about demanding the changes which are desperately needed. And as quiet as I may have been with regards to any potential political landscape etc AFTER the OWS, it seems little more volume has come from any other direction regarding alternatives to it. It seems we all reccognise the need for change; I feel it is rather bad show to critisize those who are out there campeigning for it. You may not agree with how they are going about it, but I don't see you jumping up with any alternatives.

So, again, we agree to disagree. But I have enjoyed our chat.

Cheers

yes, in order to hold a conversation, it is necessary to "quote" correctly, not re-write posts from a different thread as though it applies here.

not only did you MIS-quote me, but you infer it was actually posted in this thread ... troll much?

since you state we are not successfully swaying opinions, why then are you addressing me?
i promote no position other than that of self-reliance ... you disagree?

pssssst ... i am dyslexic and use spell-check, whereas you should try using the resources available to you ... try again.

I'm an American, i NEVER believe "there is no way" ... that is UN-American

the "status-quo" hasn't been acceptable all the days of my life ... but, i don't see these protesters changing it either ... have you read their 'demands'? have you seen the "plan of recovery" ?
tis no wonder it is only a mass of disillusion, a focused effort is yet to be seen or recognized.

every business "manipulates" their "customers" for profit ... do you even understand business?
no, the govt should not decide what is best for the people ... the govt should do what is best for the country ...that is its j-o-b ... nothing else. hint: the American govt IS the people or are you missing that part?

apparently, we don't ALL Agree, do we?
changes these protesters are demanding are not likely to occur in this generation or the next ... nice try though ... as i've said before, so long as the Federal Reserve exists, there will be no peace in any nation, govt, citizenry or world for any generation ... but you keep feeding the beast and don't cry when he bites your hand.

if you don't see alternatives being offered then you ain't lookin !!!!
killing the "consumerist" is no platform any real American will support ... ever.

when you kill the consumerist, you kill the artisan, the entertainer, the businessperson, the schoolteachers, the farmers, the mom&pop shops in every city and eventually you'll get a few criminals too but the collateral damage you support is nothing remotely resembling America.

Originally posted by Honor93

yes, in order to hold a conversation, it is necessary to "quote" correctly, not re-write posts from a different thread as though it applies here.

not only did you MIS-quote me, but you infer it was actually posted in this thread ... troll much?

I'm sorry, but I haven't the slightest idea what you are talking about. I have neither quoted nor misquoted anybody here. What I wrote is my opinion, and my thoughts. If you have expressed simmilar in this thread or any other then feel free to point it out to me as any simmilarities are both coincidental and accidental.

Originally posted by Honor93

since you state we are not successfully swaying opinions, why then are you addressing me?

I thought it polite to explain my exit.

Originally posted by Honor93

i promote no position other than that of self-reliance ... you disagree?

nope.

Originally posted by Honor93

pssssst ... i am dyslexic and use spell-check, whereas you should try using the resources available to you ... try again.

You know, I am well past 40 years now, and I can not be botherd with pesky spell checkers and the lark. I have spent my life typing and retyping and spell checking. And I realised that I can get my message accross perfectly well with the odd spelling error. So why should I? I acheive my goals. It is harder for me than for most, and I have to use all sorts of tricks to do this. It is a slow porcess but I get there. I am not goinng to add more time to the process when it adds nothing to my being understood.

Originally posted by Honor93

I'm an American, i NEVER believe "there is no way" ... that is UN-American

It is that attitude which got me where I am - I am British. I went from being kicked out of school a useles failure who could not read and write, to being global IT manger for an international software company with offices in 4 countries. I ran the budget, the IT staff reported to me, I had final responsability for the computers, servers, networks and telphone systems etc. I wrote the yearly IT department plans and alligned them with the business plans of each department, and then used that to create my (£ million) budgets.

Acheiving despite severe disability is a human trate, not just part of the American dream.

Originally posted by Honor93

the "status-quo" hasn't been acceptable all the days of my life ... but, i don't see these protesters changing it either ... have you read their 'demands'? have you seen the "plan of recovery" ?
tis no wonder it is only a mass of disillusion, a focused effort is yet to be seen or recognized.

Already agread to disagree with your opinioins here. No offence but whay go over it again?

Originally posted by Honor93

every business "manipulates" their "customers" for profit ... do you even understand business?

As IT manager of several large commercial companies I think I understand business.
I completely understand the profit before people paragigm and I too am sick of it. I have seen it appear from within organisations, as well as from the viewpoint of a consumer. This is one of the things which needs to change.

Originally posted by Honor93

no, the govt should not decide what is best for the people ... the govt should do what is best for the country ...that is its j-o-b ... nothing else. hint: the American govt IS the people or are you missing that part?

I don't understand why you are lecturing me on this? This was not even part of any previous discussion we have had. I agree with you on this for gods sake! But it is not what they actually do, is it? What part are YOU missing?

Originally posted by Honor93

apparently, we don't ALL Agree, do we?
changes these protesters are demanding are not likely to occur in this generation or the next ... nice try though ... as i've said before, so long as the Federal Reserve exists, there will be no peace in any nation, govt, citizenry or world for any generation ... but you keep feeding the beast and don't cry when he bites your hand.

if you don't see alternatives being offered then you ain't lookin !!!!

killing the "consumerist" is no platform any real American will support ... ever.

when you kill the consumerist, you kill the artisan, the entertainer, the businessperson, the schoolteachers, the farmers, the mom&pop shops in every city and eventually you'll get a few criminals too but the collateral damage you support is nothing remotely resembling America.

Well, again I can't agree with your opinions. Change is coming. We don't know how it will manifest, or if it will be this generation or the next. My bet is it is just arround the corner. We can agree to disagree on that too if you like.

Originally posted by Honor93
every business "manipulates" their "customers" for profit

You're correct, for the most part. This is a flaw of capitalism.

Originally posted by Honor93
the govt should not decide what is best for the people

You're correct. However, TBTB don't seem to give a damn what the people think is best for them.

Originally posted by Honor93
the govt should do what is best for the country ...that is its j-o-b

I'll just quote you for this reply...

Originally posted by Honor93
every business "manipulates" their "customers" for profit

Originally posted by Honor93
the American govt IS the people

Of, by, and for which people?

Wow some of you people have not the slightest clue how business works nowadays, and you seem completely brainwashed. You get presented proof of Goldman infiltrating the highest echelons of the government, which is a FACT, yet you still don't believe there's corruption?? That's beyond ridiculous...and also kinda sad. Your party politics brainwashing has blinded you so much, you can't even see reality anymore. For crying out loud, it was those very same people who constructed the bailout plans, and convinced politicians to go along with it...but for some reason you don't even want to hold them accountable.

Kudos to those Wall Street companies, they managed to completely brainwash an entire part of the population, maybe even the majority

reply to post by MrXYZ

I don't think anyone is denying corruption in government. We all KNOW the government is corrupt, the disagreement is in how to deal with and correct it.

Our government is more corrupt than it has ever been far as I can tell. I don't think you are understanding this KEY point

WallStreet does not set interest rates, or create inflation, nor does it devalue our dollar.... not even the government does THAT...it is the FEDERAL RESERVE pulling the strings.

Many of the peeps that share my viewpoints have stated more than once, including myself...we admire the passion of the genuine protestors, we feel they are being misguided AND misinformed

The simple fact that none of you believe our government is suppose to be a Republic is a blatant testimony to the point.

The agenda of the money making the protest possible is all about socialism and communism....

Call me crazy but I would rather contend with trying to fix a corrupt government than be enslaved by that other BS....

The very people you are saying don't understand were ALIVE when communism had more power, we KNOW when the history you are learning in school now is WRONG and very VERY MISDIRECTING the youth.

My concerns at least is an entire generation is being duped into promoting the very thing that will destroy the country. I know most of the protestors DON'T want that, but since the money behind them DOES....what is your point?

You think a *movement* can redirect the power and money behind George Sorros? Do you REALLY?

The protest WILL facilitate HIS agenda, or he will just back out his money truck...it's that simple

reply to post by Cinaed

WallStreet does not set interest rates, or create inflation, nor does it devalue our dollar.... not even the government does THAT...it is the FEDERAL RESERVE pulling the strings.

But all the top shots at the federal reserve are sock puppets of the major Wall Street companies!!! They don't act independently, they are sock puppets.

To prove my point: Goldman's recent reports stipulate that they WANT QE3, which would be a disaster for the US$. If you listened to Bernake's latest speech, you realize that QE3 WILL happen, they will pull through with it, even though the previous ones haven't helped anyone but the big corporations on Wall Street...help them to cover up how much they screw up and cost the tax payer money.

You think a *movement* can redirect the power and money behind George Sorros? Do you REALLY?

Well, given that Soros toppled more communist regimes than most other people on the planet, if he supports it, it must be a pretty good movement

If you truly believe the anger should be directed at the federal reserve, you might just as well talk to sock puppets, because they're not who's behind all this mess...and believing so just shows that you haven't bothered looking up the CVs of those in power at the fed reserve. MONEY rules the world, and always has, and right now, those with the most money are Wall Street. It's only logical that they try to influence politics (including what the federal reserve does), but that doesn't make it right. And people would WASTE THEIR TIME complaining to politicians or the federal reserve, they are mere puppets...it would be INSANE to waste time talking to those puppets instead of accusing the culprit directly

reply to post by MrXYZ


If you want to prove your point call for the immediate audit of the FED... then you will know all the secret business that's been going on to manipulate the economy to control Wall Street. Wall Street is the fall guy....

If Soros is such a good guy please explain to me how it is he fondly remembers his days working for the Nazi's as the best days of his life>????????

The fact you find his cause a worthy one is all the proof I need

Originally posted by Honor93
reply to post by Shamatt

 

you would be mistaken ... we do understand the purposes of protest (just not this one) and many of us agree it is necessary (just not in this illogical, senseless meandering and unorganized way)

what you missed is that we desire a cohesive, concise, plan of action ... what this is ... is just more Tony Baloney only in a different and less obvious form.

So have you started working on this plan of action yet or are you still sitting on your behind belittling people out there doing more than you trying to affect change?

Popped in to share this article, which I think is very much on topic, and will give those asking for a list of demands some food for thought.

For the "prefigurationists," as I'll call them here, raising demands for specific reforms in the present--like taxing Wall Street, regulating corporate power or defending the right of workers to form unions--discourages the development of revolutionary struggle. Instead, goes the argument, such demands legitimize the existing power structure by recognizing its authority. Instead of articulating demands, activists should ignore the political process and focus instead on creating the alternative to it in the here and now.

Take the time to read the whole article