Possible Solution to the Khalezov, Deagle 9/11 Nuclear Demolition Theory

reply to post by ipsedixit


New York City Department of Health concerned about a "dirty bomb" sent health inspector with sensative
radiation detectors to WTC

Within minutes of the crash, McKinney sent a radiological health inspector to check the site for any radiation sources. He reached Richard Borri, a senior scientist in the department’s office of Radiological Health, who like most people from DOH, was on his way to work when the first tower was hit.

“While I was walking down Church Street, with all my instruments, I came within 1000 feet of the South Tower, and unfortunately the building came down,” says Borri, sounding every bit the unruffled scientist. “It’s a good thing I walked slowly.”

Used extremely sensative equipment

That was fortunately not the case, Borri found, using a portable liquid scintillation counter, which measures radioactivity like a Geiger counter. The high-tech portable gadget he carried, one of the few available in the United States, is far more precise than its century-old cousin, the Geiger, counter with a much more refined ability to detect any kind of radioactivity.

Only radiation at scene was from radio pharmacueticals in pharmacy in WTC

Although Borri didn’t turn up any problematic radioactive readings by the end of the day, his work would be supplemented by the federal Department of Energy, whose technicians remained on site and continued to sample. [Only during the last days of the Ground Zero cleanup would radioactive testers find any evidence of radioactive emissions, from a pharmacy laboratory located within one of the buildings.]

www.neha.org...

Later that day FDNY HAZ MAT unit carried out surveys - once off duty members assembled, original crew
was killed in collapse

At this point it was utter chaos trying to find people and get organized. It took a while to re-organize and find some people and get working on the rubble to look for survivors. A total recall was ordered and upon the arrival of a few more Haz-Mat guys we performed quick surveys of the perimeter in two teams of four checking for radiation, nerve and blister agent, all results were negative. We then began digging for survivors.

As can see radiation monitoring was carried out from start of the incident

YOU LOSE....

A major concern was that terrorists could have unleashed a so-called “dirty bomb,” an explosive device containing radioactive compounds like cesium.

Within minutes of the crash, McKinney sent a radiological health inspector to check the site for any radiation sources. He reached Richard Borri, a senior scientist in the department’s office of Radiological Health, who like most people from DOH, was on his way to work when the first tower was hit.

I find this account hard to believe. "Terrorists", within minutes of the first crash? Maybe he had inside knowledge. I find it hard to take this at face value, but I will look at it in more detail.

Thanks for the info about the radiation detector used.

This subject is very labyrinthine, but I'm not convinced that Borri's search for radiation on 9/11 or that of others in the weeks that followed would have detected depleted uranium.

The article cited by thedman is a little misleading, I believe, regarding the capabilities of Borri's liquid scintillation counter.

www.neha.org...

That was fortunately not the case, Borri found, using a portable liquid scintillation counter, which measures radioactivity like a Geiger counter. The high-tech portable gadget he carried, one of the few available in the United States, is far more precise than its century-old cousin, the Geiger, counter with a much more refined ability to detect any kind of radioactivity.

Not according to this:

en.wikipedia.org...

Liquid scintillation counting is a standard laboratory method in the life-sciences for measuring radiation from beta-emitting nuclides. Scintillating materials are also used in differently constructed "counters" in many other fields.

This quote from the Wikipedia article on liquid scintillation speaks to the fact that Borri and associates didn't seem to find, according to your article, tritium in their search for "radiation". Note the reference to "ideal" conditions. That would be laboratory conditions, and undoubtedly, preparation of samples.

en.wikipedia.org...

Counting efficiencies under ideal conditions range from about 30% for tritium (a low-energy beta emitter) to nearly 100% for phosphorus-32, a high-energy beta emitter. Some chemical compounds (notably chlorine compounds) and highly colored samples can interfere with the counting process. This interference, known as "quenching", can be overcome through data correction or through careful sample preparation.

Also note that depleted uranium is a low level alpha particle emitter.

www.wildclearing.com...

A July, 1990 report from the U.S. Army Armament, Munitions, and Chemical Command notes depleted uranium is a" low level alpha radiation emitter which is linked to cancer when exposures are internal, [and] chemical toxicity causing kidney damage."

It is possible that Borri, on the lookout for a "dirty bomb" style radiation signal paid little attention to alpha particles, if he did detect them. The usual "dirty bomb" terror scenario imagines that the bomb will be manufactured with commonly available commercially used radioactive materials. A typical example would be cesium-137.

epa.gov...

Cesium-137 is one of the most common radioisotopes used in industry. Thousands of devices use cesium-137:

moisture-density gauges, widely used in the construction industry

leveling gauges, used in industries to detect liquid flow in pipes and tanks

thickness gauges, for measuring thickness of sheet metal, paper, film and many other products

well-logging devices in the drilling industry to help characterize rock strata
Cesium-137 is also used in medical therapy to treat cancer.

Borri was likely on the lookout for beta and gamma radiation because nobody would make a "dirty bomb" using a "low level alpha radiation emitter" like depleted uranium. Cesium-137, one of the obvious radioactive materials on a terrorist shopping list is a beta and gamma radiation emitter.

Cesium-137 undergoes radioactive decay with the emission of beta particles and relatively strong gamma radiation.

Since, in the 9/11 scenario, an alpha particle threat was probably not part of the official thinking for people like Borri and since alpha particles are hard to detect anyway, being both weak and detectible only within a range of a few centimetres (couple of inches), it is highly unlikely that Borri's efforts were optimized to search for them.

Not optimized for alpha particles and not really looking for them, he would probably have written off any he did detect as coming from expected backround sources and never think at all in terms of depleted uranium.

reply to post by ipsedixit

I find this account hard to believe. "Terrorists", within minutes of the first crash? Maybe he had inside knowledge. I find it hard to take this at face value, but I will look at it in more detail.

New York has always been a prime target for terrorists going back to early 20th cent when anarchists were
setting off bombs

The Wall Street bombing occurred at 12:01 p.m. on September 16, 1920, in the Financial District of New York City. The blast killed 38 and seriously injured 143. Although the bombing was never solved, investigators and historians think it likely the Wall Street bombing was carried out by Galleanists (Italian anarchists), a group responsible for a series of bombings the previous year. The attack was related to postwar social unrest, labor struggles and anti-capitalist agitation in the United States

The Wall Street bomb caused more fatalities than the bombing of the Los Angeles Times building in 1910, and was the deadliest act of terrorism on U.S. soil up to that point .

In the 1970's it was Puerto Rican FALN and Croatian nationialists who bombed JFK airport, Fraunces Tavern
and Statute of Liberty

1980 June 3: Bombing of the Statue of Liberty. At 7:30 p.m., a time delayed explosive device detonated in the Statue of Liberty's Story Room. Detonated after business hours, the bomb did not injure anyone, but caused $18,000 in damage, destroying many of the exhibits. The room was sealed off and left unrepaired until the Statue of Liberty restoration project that began years later. FBI investigators believed the perpetrators were Croatian terrorists seeking independence for Croatia from Yugoslavia, though no arrests were made.

On December 29, 1975, at 6:33pm a bomb with the equivalent of 25 sticks of dynamite exploded in the main terminal at LaGuardia Airport, killing 11 and injuring 79. The bomb had been placed in a locker adjacent to a luggage carousel. At the time, suspects included the FALN, the Jewish Defense League, the Palestinian Liberation Organization, and the Croatian nationalist Zvonko Busic. The bombing remains unsolved.[2]

en.wikipedia.org...

Did you forget the 1993 bombing of the WTC ?

The 1993 World Trade Center bombing occurred on February 26, 1993, when a truck bomb was detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. The 1,336 lb (606 kg) urea nitrate–hydrogen gas enhanced device[was intended to knock the North Tower (Tower One) into the South Tower (Tower Two), bringing both towers down and killing thousands of people. It failed to do so, but did kill six people and injured more than a thousand. The attack was planned by a group of conspirators including Ramzi Yousef, Mahmud Abouhalima, Mohammad Salameh, Nidal A. Ayyad, Abdul Rahman Yasin and Ahmad Ajaj. They received financing from Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, Yousef's uncle. In March 1994, four men were convicted of carrying out the bombing: Abouhalima, Ajaj, Ayyad and Salameh. The charges included conspiracy, explosive destruction of property and interstate transportation of explosives. In November 1997, two more were convicted: Yousef, the mastermind behind the bombings, and Eyad Ismoil, who drove the truck carrying the bomb.

Because of this the local FBI offices and NYPD are always on alert - when planes start flying into the WTC
its a good guess that terrorism is involved and to check all the angles.....

reply to post by thedman

Thanks for the history lesson. You should look into the history of false flag attacks. That is interesting too.

Do you know if they investigate for radiation hazards routinely in all airliner crash scenarios? I've never heard of it, not that that means anything.

reply to post by ipsedixit


The tritium was later detected in samples of water from WTC - here tritium replaced one or more of the normal
hydrogen atoms in the water molecules.

It was detected in very minute traces - mostly tracable to use of tritium in luminous signs. Commercial airlines
use tritium powered signs to mark the aisles in crash of crash. Additional sources or tritium are night sights
for guns. Numerous police agencies had offices in the WTC complex (Port Authorithy, Secret Service, ATF)
and had large arsenals stored there. Ordinary luminous watches use tritium to make the glow.

Tritium is weak beta emitter - energy of only 25 KEV (electrons of 25000 electron volts)

Uranium 238 is primary alpha emitter - alpha particles are stopped by piece of paper. Problem is if are ingested/
inhaled into the body. Here alpha radiation can attack nearby cells causing numerous diseases including cancer

[exU238 radiates alpha-particles and decays (by way of thorium-234 and protactinium-234) into uranium-234. 234U has a half-life of 245,500 years. The relation between 238U and 234U gives an indication of the age of sediments that are between 100,000 years and 1,200,000 years in age.

Most radioactive substances emitt beta particles along with gamma radiation - which is why use scillation
counters (Cesium 137, Strontium 90)

Caesium-137 (137 55Cs, Cs-137) is a radioactive isotope of caesium which is formed as a fission product by nuclear fission.

It has a half-life of about 30.17 years, and decays by beta emission to a metastable nuclear isomer of barium-137: barium-137m (137mBa, Ba-137m). (About 95 percent of the nuclear decay leads to this isomer. The other 5.0 percent directly populates the ground state, which is stable.) Ba-137m has a half-life of about 153 seconds, and it is responsible for all of the emissions of gamma rays. One gram of caesium-137 has an activity of 3.215 terabecquerel (TBq).

reply to post by thedman


How many low level radioactive stuff can be found in the older model computer monitors? There were a lot of those on that day in the towers. Now in 2011 we have the flat screen monitors but those old ones had radioactive stuff in them.

I say stuff because I can't think of the word for it. If we have had X-rays, we have had low levels in us for that. Doctors even do nuclear stress tests on us. We are surrounded by it more than we even realize.

reply to post by WarminIndy


You are thinking of low energy (soft ) X ray radiaition being emitted from older model TV sets/monitors

To fix that most of tubes were made using leaded glass to block the X ray emissions

Because of that older mod CRT are considered hazardous waste requiring special disposal

Originally posted by thedman
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

You are thinking of low energy (soft ) X ray radiaition being emitted from older model TV sets/monitors

To fix that most of tubes were made using leaded glass to block the X ray emissions

Because of that older mod CRT are considered hazardous waste requiring special disposal

Yes, that was what I was thinking. There were how many of those in the WTC? I would think a thousand would be substantial enough to pick up readings on.

reply to post by WarminIndy


X-rays are only emitted when the CRT's are operating, much like x-ray machines in medical offices. The collision of an electron beam with a target material produces the X-rays.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

X-rays are only emitted when the CRT's are operating, much like x-ray machines in medical offices. The collision of an electron beam with a target material produces the X-rays.

I see. That does make sense to me. Still with that amount of substances in the dust and rubble it would definitely lead to health issues for the first responders.

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

X-rays are only emitted when the CRT's are operating, much like x-ray machines in medical offices. The collision of an electron beam with a target material produces the X-rays.

I see. That does make sense to me. Still with that amount of substances in the dust and rubble it would definitely lead to health issues for the first responders.

That is true. Materials from fluorescent lights, alone, would be substantial. Redispersed dust and pyrolyzed materials in the underground fires would also add to the mix.
The attempt to link complex medical symtoms with root cause is the failure of the OP. Some people are sick for some unknown reason in an area where depleted U was used in projectiles. Some other people in another area are also sick for some unknown reason. The false conclusion is that depleted U is causing the illness in both cases.

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

That is true. Materials from fluorescent lights, alone, would be substantial. Redispersed dust and pyrolyzed materials in the underground fires would also add to the mix.
The attempt to link complex medical symtoms with root cause is the failure of the OP. Some people are sick for some unknown reason in an area where depleted U was used in projectiles. Some other people in another area are also sick for some unknown reason. The false conclusion is that depleted U is causing the illness in both cases.

I remember before 9/11 that people were upset with George Bush because of the radioactive waste being transported across the country via the interstate system to the Yucca Mountains. That frightened me because I thought of how anyone who would know what these trucks would look like could steal them. Apparently when they are shipped, they are also under surveillance the whole time. But it would only take one horrible accident for this waste to affect a lot of people.

And the OP did not mention how the Uranium would have gotten there in the first place. I know it could not have been on a semi trailer, because no one can drive semi-trailers into downtown Manhattan. But I would think that to make a theory about such things, one should answer those questions before making an assumption because people believe the assumptions quicker than the true answers.

Perhaps the only way that any Uranium could have possibly gotten there, and I am talking about enough to cause any damage, maybe was on a delivery truck. But the people bringing it there would have had to wear Hazmat suits, and this would have to be before the planes hit in the first place. There are enough people in downtown Manhattan who would know something would be up.

I have been in Manhattan, people there are aware of what is going on. You could tell they were completely caught by surprise by the planes. And today, they still show a level of fear. I will give an example, in 2008 I went to Manhattan for business. Not far from the Empire State Building, there was a sound of a small boom because a truck hit something. Two men rushed from a building to see what it was and as I listened, both men started talking about 9/11 and what they saw and they made the comment that "you just don't make sounds like that without people being afraid". This was a truck belonging to a construction company. It was not a semi-truck but one that is like a delivery truck.

People in Manhattan are vigilant. They stay aware of what is going on around them. There is a 200 dollar fine for even honking your horn in Manhattan and the police presence is very noticeable.

I was in New York City and Washington DC on Sept. 8, 2001. I thank God every day that I missed it by those 3 days. I was riding a bus from Toronto to North Carolina. When the bus stopped at Border Patrol in Buffalo, all the passengers had to get off for the bus to be searched, which was and is routine for buses. The Border Patrol agent actually let me go through without checking my bags, even though they checked some from some of the men there. That was back when we did not need a passport to go to Canada. There was simply no heightened sense of alarm coming from the Border Patrol agents, they were just doing their job.

The more I read about the nuclear angle on the WTC 9/11 incident, the more disgusted I become.

Being Canadian I am only too well aware of the seedier sides of Canadian politics, all the phony crap that goes on, all the theft by people on the inside, the so called snugger b's (I don't want to spell it out for fear of being too crude.), Canada's carefully cultivated image as an international "good guy", etc.

But I have to tell you, for the first time since 2007, when I first got involved in the 9/11 wars on ATS, I felt a genuine compassion for the people of the United States. The reason for it was a link that LaBTop posted in 2005, to a USGS survey of dust samples taken in Manhattan in the days immediately following 9/11.

pubs.usgs.gov...

I won't post LaBTop's comments with regard to this publication, but he asks some very relevant questions that indicate that he believes that the USGS were on a leash when they did this study of WTC dust. The following quote from their report, linked above, is very revealing.

The chemical makeup of the dust samples, although quite variable, reflects the chemical contributions of mate-rials used in building construction or found in buildings, such as glass fibers, concrete, gyspum wallboard, steel girders, wiring, ductwork, electronics, computers, paper, and many others.

The mean concentrations of some heavy metals in the WTC dust samples (such as antimony, molybdenum, zinc, copper, lead, chromium, manganese, nickel, and barium) are relatively high compared to their mean concentrations in natural soils from the eastern United States.

I think what is going on here is that under duress to remain silent, the USGS is doing their best to draw people's attention to the heavy metals in the WTC dust without running afoul of the criminal element at the top of the Bush administration.

Checking the table in this publication, of the chemical composition of the WTC dust is a difficult thing to do casually, because all the chemical names are printed sideways. But if one reads down the list of constituents of the dust, by weight, one finds that there is actually more barium and strontium in the dust than copper!!!!, this from a building that would have huge amounts of copper wiring in it.

Barium and strontium are the products of nuclear fission.

The USGS remit was to look for asbestos, a well known health hazard, as an aid to deciding what precautions the clean-up crew should take. They do find asbestos, but they also find high amounts of radioactive barium and strontium, higher than copper for heaven's sake, and they are limited to a very understated aknowledgement of it's presence, designed to alert only the educated and knowledgeable in nuclear matters.

This is a shame and an outrage. Poor Americans. Thank God the Canadian government hasn't sunk that low, at least not to my knowledge.

Originally posted by ipsedixit







Checking the table in this publication, of the chemical composition of the WTC dust is a difficult thing to do casually, because all the chemical names are printed sideways. But if one reads down the list of constituents of the dust, by weight, one finds that there is actually more barium and strontium in the dust than copper!!!!, this from a building that would have huge amounts of copper wiring in it.

Barium and strontium are the products of nuclear fission.

I grew up in an area of Ohio that has high levels of Strontium naturally occurring in the ground. While Strontium can occur from nuclear fission, it is a byproduct rather than a product. I know without a doubt that there was no nuclear explosion or nuclear meltdown anywhere near where I grew up and my family has lived there 4 generations. The one thing that could be said about where I grew up is that we all have good teeth and bones. My grandfather died with all of his own teeth, which is pretty good for a 79 year-old man 30 years ago.

www.atsdr.cdc.gov...
econgeol.geoscienceworld.org...
pubs.usgs.gov...

I think that was a "jump the gun" assumption on that posters part.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
The more I read about the nuclear angle on the WTC 9/11 incident, the more disgusted I become.

I won't post LaBTop's comments with regard to this publication, but he asks some very relevant questions that indicate that he believes that the USGS were on a leash when they did this study of WTC dust. The following quote from their report, linked above, is very revealing.

The chemical makeup of the dust samples, although quite variable, reflects the chemical contributions of mate-rials used in building construction or found in buildings, such as glass fibers, concrete, gyspum wallboard, steel girders, wiring, ductwork, electronics, computers, paper, and many others.

The mean concentrations of some heavy metals in the WTC dust samples (such as antimony, molybdenum, zinc, copper, lead, chromium, manganese, nickel, and barium) are relatively high compared to their mean concentrations in natural soils from the eastern United States.

I think what is going on here is that under duress to remain silent, the USGS is doing their best to draw people's attention to the heavy metals in the WTC dust without running afoul of the criminal element at the top of the Bush administration.

Checking the table in this publication, of the chemical composition of the WTC dust is a difficult thing to do casually, because all the chemical names are printed sideways. But if one reads down the list of constituents of the dust, by weight, one finds that there is actually more barium and strontium in the dust than copper!!!!, this from a building that would have huge amounts of copper wiring in it.

Barium and strontium are the products of nuclear fission.

The USGS remit was to look for asbestos, a well known health hazard, as an aid to deciding what precautions the clean-up crew should take. They do find asbestos, but they also find high amounts of radioactive barium and strontium, higher than copper for heaven's sake, and they are limited to a very understated aknowledgement of it's presence, designed to alert only the educated and knowledgeable in nuclear matters.

This is a shame and an outrage. Poor Americans. Thank God the Canadian government hasn't sunk that low, at least not to my knowledge.

1. You overreach once again. The strontium and barium found in the dust are not the radioactive isotopes found after nuclear explosions. The gypsum wall board contains Sr and Ba as impurities. There is no evidence of any fission reaction at the WTC. How you got here from the depleted uranium fantasy is unexpected but not surprising. Are you so desperate to show a conspiracy that you misinterpret data purposely or are you just "chemically challenged?"

2. The elements found in the dust are not proportional to the elements present in the WTC. This is because not everything is proportionally converted to dust, especially metals. "Dustification" of metals theories are the result of the desire to discover a conspiracy combined with the abject ignorance of the physical world in the minds of certain folks. Both characteristics are common in the truther community.

pteridine, here is a picture of the W-54 nuclear warhead.

en.wikipedia.org...

There were four distinct models of the basic W54 design used, each with different yield, but the same basic design. These were:

Mk-54 (Davy Crockett) — 10 or 20 ton yield, Davy Crockett artillery warhead
Mk-54 (SADM) — variable yield 10 ton to 1 kiloton, Special Atomic Demolition Munition device
W-54 — 250 ton yield, warhead for AIM-26 Falcon air to air missile
W72 — 600 ton yield, rebuilt W-54 (Falcon warhead) for AGM-62 Walleye

Specifications

All four variants share the same basic core: a nuclear system which is 10.75 inches diameter (270 mm), about 15.7 inches long (400 mm), and weighs around or slightly over 50 pounds (23 kg).

There is no doubt that small size nuclear weapons exist and would be easy to carry into any building, wouldn't you say?

reply to post by WarminIndy

Thanks for your post. I looked at the links you included, particularly the report on arsenic. That report is, to my eyes anyway, a very thorough report on the distribution of arsenic in the ground of the area of Ohio studied. The amounts found vary in different places and at different depths.

Duly noted.

Just a question though. At the time of the Three Mile Island accident were there notifications given of radiation hazards or any follow up effort to look for evidence of contamination in your area? I realize that you are west of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, and most likely always upwind of trouble from there.

reply to post by ipsedixit


What does the size of the warheads have to do with anything? So far you have attempted to link depleted uranium shaped charges when no explosions and no residual uranium were in evidence, you erroneously assumed that barium and strontium found in the dust were somehow radioisotopes and the result of a nuclear explosion, and now you are showing some out of date mini-nuke warheads. For what purpose? There was obviously not a nuke explosion that caused the towers to collapse.
If anyone was planning to demolish the towers, nukes are the last things they would use because, when discovered, a nuke would certainly narrow the possible suspects to a very small group.

Give up on the nukes. No radiation consistent with anything other than emergency signs and radiopharmaceuticals was found.

Don't forget that EMP effects were documented and unexplained by any other means than nuclear/fu/ission etc. type devices. Nukes would generate the tremendous and instant burst of temps in the hundred of thousands or higher for a flash and disintegrate steel. The steel cores WERE disintegrated, meaning destroyed at the molecular level. The " Spire ' turning to dust is proof that the core was heated to the point of loss of structural integrity to the 90% and when the upper floors were blown by the mini-nukes and cut at sections with conventional charges as seen in recent video's, they were blown away basically from the cores and thus no real weight was being transferred, allowing for the core to stand briefly before" dustifying ".

NO OTHER explanation covers all the effects observed. You cannot get around the testimony of Ondrovic, the EMS tech and others who testified to EMP effects. Nothing else could account for what was related by these people, and anyone that si destitute of reason that they would say " falling debris ' over and over as if that could explain cars blowing up for no apparant reason and fire coats catching fire, people catching fire, vehicles melted and twisted in ways so anomalous that the official story drones avoid the topic like the plague, as anything they try to offer to explain it is so openly ridiculous and impossible that they end up humiliated.

The eruptions uPward and OUTward from the Towers, turning virtually all concrete and people...everything but paper, into dust or small shards. Anyone with even a basic amount of common sense knows that is a building were " collapsing" from gravity people and furnishings would be crushed and mangled perhaps, but not blown to tiny shards on roof tops far away!! Small nukes were used along with other agents for the total package...total destruction was necessary...no repairs this time...no waiting for war this time..so they brought out the big guns, the small nukes, and expertly set and detonated them.

The only problem is getting the people to wake up and think about what they are seeing, and what the evidence says. Check out what one witness says about the EMp effects she experienced:


graphics8.nytimes.com...

and : ______beforeitsnews/story/427/429/Witnesses_Saw_People_Vaporized_on_9_11.html