Possible Solution to the Khalezov, Deagle 9/11 Nuclear Demolition Theory

Originally posted by spoor
What evidence is there that they threatened Deagle?

None at all of course!

What evidence would satisfy you?

Originally posted by ipsedixit
What evidence would satisfy you?

How about a witness? any evidence actually, but in this case we have no evidence at all.

Basically, in this thread I am taking Deagle at his word. I think he tried to test dust from Ground Zero using, if I recall what he said to Steven Jones correctly, Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP/MS) measurements. I'm assuming, as a layperson, that this sort of testing must be done in a lab using high tech equipment not available outside a university setting or a government lab or a private industry lab.

He says that he was roadblocked and could not even get the tests done in Europe. He says that he was threatened if he continued to try to get these tests done that he would be arrested. Enter the Patriot Act. I accept this account on good faith.

Has anyone done such tests? I don't know.

I looked into facts about depleted uranium and about radiation detection in general. In fact not until after 9/11 have high quality portable radiation detectors been available. The famous "Geiger" counter, or, Geiger-Müller tube detector is a device that can only be used intelligently by well trained people who know its limitations. This fact plus the fact that indications of depleted uranium are difficult to separate from indications of regular background radiation, or radiation from artificially manufactured but common instances of radiation sources in the environment, bring into question the efficacy of radiation detection efforts in force during the clean up of ground zero.

What was the regime in force on 9/11. Were they scanning clothing, which is a good idea because it collects radioactive particles like a filter, or were they walking around on the pile, holding the tube detector in the air, which is a far far less useful procedure?

Portable HPG style (highly purified geranium crystal) detectors were not available on 9/11, as far as I know.

www.hc-sc.gc.ca...

Because uranium is ubiquitous throughout the natural environment, approximately 90 :g of uranium, on average, exists in the human body from normal daily intakes of air, water and food. The biological distribution is approximately 66% in the skeleton, 16% in liver, 8% in kidneys and 10% in other tissues. Due to the presence of natural uranium, a suspected intake of depleted uranium cannot be confirmed by techniques which measure total uranium or uranium-238 only. Depleted uranium is detected by measuring relative amounts of the isotopes on samples such as urine or hair, or on a person in a whole-body counter. Thermal Ionisation Mass Spectrometry (TIMS) or Inductively Coupled Plasma Mass Spectrometry (ICP/MS) measurements on urine or hair are approximately a million times more sensitive than whole body counting techniques.

This is the kind of thing Deagle wants to do to the dust from Ground Zero.

It's important to remember that this dust was full of carcinogenic toxins. From the point of view of an ATS conspiracy oriented person, this makes Ground Zero an ideal place to hide one more carcinogen, depleted uranium.

If you are a perp and you want to use what amounts to depleted uranium munitions on the WTC, the massive amount of other carcinogens and toxins including ballast uranium from the airplanes, provide an ideal cover.

I think Deagle might be right to suspect radioactivity as a factor in "first responder's syndrome", but I think he is off the track with the nukes.

I suspect depleted uranium is an ingredient in the mix here, which would account for the roadblocks and the threat against him. To me this is a criminal case. This is CSI related material, stuff that needs to be tested for. Unlike many others, I don't trust the Bush administration and I wouldn't put any sort of crime past them, including using depleted uranium explosive charges on the people of New York.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
which would account for the roadblocks and the threat against him.

Except that no such roadblocks or threats actually existed!

Originally posted by spoor
Except that no such roadblocks or threats actually existed!

Spit it out, if you have something to say. You're not telling me anything.

Dimitri Khalezov on the other hand, ex-Soviet military nuclear technician, ex-associate of Mossad hooligan, Mike Harrari, ex-lounge lizard in the bars of Bangkok, comes out of nowhere, like so many intelligence agents with tales of 150 kiloton devices (Hiroshima was advertised as destroyed by a 20 kiloton device) planted under WTCs 1, 2 and 7. That's a total equivalent of 450,000 tons of TNT under buildings 1,2 and 7.

This is so unbelievable and ridiculous, I cannot even take it seriously.....

I mean seriously

Nuclear was not even needed.....What a waste of a good bomb

This is the typical linear shaped charge configuration used in controlled demolitions:



Posted as a test of the new photo upload regime. More to follow.

(Voice of Rod Serling: "Imagine if you will a copper tube, pressed into a V shape along its length, but still hollow in the middle. The hollow portion of the tube is filled with explosives. That in essence is a description of a shaped charge used in controlled demolition." Until I figure out how to upload images it will have to do as an illustation of what I want to put in my next post.)

There is nothing preventing anyone from having samples analyzed by commercial laboratories. The labs don't ask for a history of the sample and don't know where it comes from. ICP-MS is a capability many labs have along with other techniques that can analyze for whatever is desired. Deagle is an entrepeneur and has an agenda. Trace uranium is common and there is a natural background due to uranium so it will be found, of course.

Khalezov is pushing his theory which has many problems of its own. The entire concept of "dustification" is complete nonsense invented by con artists to seduce the gullible. Metals under impulsive loads undergo plastic deformation and do not turn to dust.

Originally posted by pteridine
There is nothing preventing anyone from having samples analyzed by commercial laboratories.

Theoretically you are correct, Mr. Spok.

The labs don't ask for a history of the sample and don't know where it comes from.

Isn't this a problem that the authorities in the Department of Defense could remedy, if they so chose?

ICP-MS is a capability many labs have along with other techniques that can analyze for whatever is desired.

That's true.

Deagle is an entrepeneur and has an agenda.

Heaven forbid that one should be an entrepreneur or that one should have an agenda. That sounds too much like organization and work. Are those the new standard marks of a fraud, entrepreneurship and an agenda.

Trace uranium is common and there is a natural background due to uranium so it will be found, of course.

That is true.

Khalezov is pushing his theory which has many problems of its own.

Of the two guys I think Khalezov is a better candidate for fraud.

The entire concept of "dustification" is complete nonsense invented by con artists to seduce the gullible.

Well, "dustification" is really a layman's term and I do apologize to Dr. Judy Wood if I have attributed the term to her incorrectly. I'm not going to argue with you on this point. It has been done to death in other threads. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Metals under impulsive loads undergo plastic deformation and do not turn to dust.

No argument there.

I'm writing a post about shaped charges which I will get up as soon as I can.

As I mentioned in my original post, Khalezov came to his nuclear demolition theory via the Soviet military and Mossad operative Mike Harrari. A lot of ATS’rs are not impressed with Khalezov’s theory, me included.

Dr. William Deagle comes to a different nuclear demolition theory, involving micro-nukes, via research into what might be called “first responder’s syndrome”. He seems to have made a connection between “Gulf War Syndrome” believed by some to be caused in part , by the use of depleted uranium munitions in the two gulf wars, and “First Responder’s Syndrome”, because of the similarities in symptoms shown by people thought to be suffering from the two syndromes.

This is a very controversial area of research. The US government, to my knowledge, does not believe that there is a “Gulf War Syndrome”. They know that a lot of veterans are sick and believe that these are simply people who got sick for a multiplicity of reasons. They do not believe that depleted uranium munitions are dangerous to American troops, if properly handled.

The question of the syndromes, “Gulf War” and “First Responder’s” and also the question of the dangers involved in the use of depleted uranium munitions is the subject of considerable debate. The debate on these questions is outside the scope of this thread.

Suffice it to say that Dr. Deagle , from his research on Gulf War Syndrome and his belief that it was connected to depleted uranium munitions came to the conclusion, from looking at the reports of “First Responder’s Syndrome”, that there must be a nuclear connection to that also.

When you throw Judy Wood’s ideas into the mix, particularly the disappearance of substantial quantities of steel from Ground Zero, in a giant cloud of smoke, one might be forgiven for thinking in terms of nuclear detonations. That was Deagle’s line of thought.

There is another line of thought, though, that corresponds to Deagle’s and many others’ thinking on the connection between “Gulf War Syndrome” and depleted uranium munitions, and that actually connects “First Responder’s Syndrome” to depleted uranium munitions by way of the use, on 9/11, of depleted uranium demolition shaped charges.

Has anyone come forward and said that “Yes, we used them.” No, of course not. No one has said that they used them. No one has said that they even exist. Do they exist? I believe that there is very good reason to think so.

Most people would say that the US Air Force is the most technologically advanced of the US armed forces, but I’m sure that the US Navy has them beat twenty ways to Sunday.

It turns out that the US Navy has been experimenting with creating more efficient shaped charges for demolitions and their experiments have involved using lead as the container.

www.dtic.mil...

Title : Penetration and Cutting Effects of Lead-Sheathed Flexible Linear Shaped Charges and Explosive-Filled Linear Shaped-Charge Containers (Mark 7 Mods 1 through 8 and Mark 8 Mod 2)
Descriptive Note : Final rept. Sep-Oct 1978
Corporate Author : NAVAL EXPLOSIVE ORDNANCE DISPOSAL FACILITY INDIAN HEAD MD
Personal Author(s) : Humphrey, William A. ; Gaines, Paula A.

Lead is a pyrophoric metal and has been used in munitions for a very long time. The Navy likes it as a container for the explosives in shaped charges. It works better within the parameters they consider important.

Depleted uranium is a lot like lead in some respects and when it is suitably alloyed could undoubtedly be brought to exhibit the same desirable working characteristics as lead. Depleted uranium shaped charges would probably work better than lead as penetrators and cutters.

The dots are getting very close together here. I don’t doubt that depleted uranium shaped charges exist.

If it could be proven that they were used on 9/11, it would be very, very damaging to the American government.

To me that speaks to Deagle’s credibility.

I acknowledge that the dust at Ground Zero was a witch’s brew of toxins and carcinogens and might be responsible for “First Responder’s Syndrome”, even without including depleted uranium in the mix.

But in the context of a criminal investigation, particularly of a mass murder, we don’t just say, “This is too complicated. Forget about it.”

I don’t think anyone to date has investigated whether depleted uranium shaped charges were used on 9/11. I think there is good reason to do so.

reply to post by ipsedixit

To me that speaks to Deagle’s credibility

Credibility????

Deagle believes that there are some 1500 secret military bases underground, nuclear weapons are hideen in
cities, but the one that takes the cake is "the killer baboons"

Their plan is to transition to Remote Operational Vehicles, cyborgs, weaponized animals like baboons that they have in a secret facility down near Galveston, Texas. They have them set up so that they have remote operating controls, so they have a kill mode and they have these nano-armor that can stop pretty well anything. Any 80 lb baboon can pick up a 300 lb man and tear him literally in two. They can run at 35 miles per hour, and they can jump 15-20 feet in the air. So I don't think you are going to outrun these. And their plan is to create supersoldiers.

Sorry. Deagle is bat crap. barking at the moon nuts

reply to post by ipsedixit

Lead is a pyrophoric metal and has been used in munitions for a very long time. The Navy likes it as a container for the explosives in shaped charges. It works better within the parameters they consider important.

Wrong as usual .

Do you even know what "PYROPHORIC" means?

Pyrophoric means "self igniting" - white phosphorus is pyrophoric

Lead is not a pyrophoric metal!

Reason Lead was used for bullets was simple, it is heavy., cheap, easy to mold

Uranium is pyrophoric under ceratin conditions - when used in armour piercing round strikes target the uranium
shatters into small pieces which combined with kinetic energy released when striking target ignites the small
fragments. A lump of uranium sitting on table is not pyrophoric.

Lead is not used as container for shaped charges, Copper is.

You lose as usual,,,,,,

reply to post by ipsedixit


Nuclear weapons are not able to be minaturized beyond a certain point. Yields can be tuned to applications but it is not possible to make a nuclear explosive that is physically smaller than a critical mass.

Metals are not converted into dust by shockwaves. No one who has posted the "metals-to-dust" claim has been able to provide a physical mechanism for such a transition and metal dust was not found at the WTC site. This is a claim based entirely on youtube videos and supported by the ignorance of the claimants.

Lead-based shaped charges were used for their flexibility; they can be bent to fit curved surfaces. This was a development of the EOD labs and does not somehow make the charges quiet or non-noticeable. As with any shaped charge, they will leave evidence on any metal structure that has been cut by them. EOD gets rid of bombs and being able to bend the charge around a cylinder is a handy characteristic. For cutting beams, it is not needed.

reply to post by thedman

I love it when the debunkers disclose all there is to know about them.

Pyrophoric Lead:

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Nuclear weapons are not able to be minaturized beyond a certain point. Yields can be tuned to applications but it is not possible to make a nuclear explosive that is physically smaller than a critical mass.

This thread rejects the idea that nukes of any size were involved on 9/11, barring categorical evidence to the contrary.

Metals are not converted into dust by shockwaves.

Who in this thread made that claim?

No one who has posted the "metals-to-dust" claim has been able to provide a physical mechanism for such a transition and metal dust was not found at the WTC site.

Dust is not a scientifically precise term. Tiny iron spherules were found in the dusty aggregate that lay inches deep around Manhattan after the towers were demolished. You know that. Are you trying to mislead readers?

Lead-based shaped charges were used for their flexibility; . . .

True but not relevant.

This was a development of the EOD labs and does not somehow make the charges quiet or non-noticeable.

Not relevant to the discussion.

As with any shaped charge, they will leave evidence on any metal structure that has been cut by them.

Relevance?

EOD gets rid of bombs and being able to bend the charge around a cylinder is a handy characteristic. For cutting beams, it is not needed.

Relevance?

I know I must be on to something when the obfuscating jailhouse lawyer ambles up.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

No one who has posted the "metals-to-dust" claim has been able to provide a physical mechanism for such a transition and metal dust was not found at the WTC site.

Dust is not a scientifically precise term. Tiny iron spherules were found in the dusty aggregate that lay inches deep around Manhattan after the towers were demolished. You know that. Are you trying to mislead readers?

Finding spherules is not relevant. They are commonplace. Are you trying to mislead readers by pretending you are on to something?

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by ipsedixit

No one who has posted the "metals-to-dust" claim has been able to provide a physical mechanism for such a transition and metal dust was not found at the WTC site.

Dust is not a scientifically precise term. Tiny iron spherules were found in the dusty aggregate that lay inches deep around Manhattan after the towers were demolished. You know that. Are you trying to mislead readers?

Finding spherules is not relevant. They are commonplace. Are you trying to mislead readers by pretending you are on to something?

This is about whether or not depleted uranium shaped charges were used to demolish the WTC. Up until now, I've never heard mention of them. I think I have made a good case for believing that they exist and that they ought to be pursued as a possible contributing factor in First Responder's Syndrome.

Do you think that depleted uranium shaped charges do not exist?

reply to post by ipsedixit


What advantages would accrue from depleted uranium shaped charges? As there is no evidence for any shaped charge demolitions, speculating on liners and standoff materials is pointless.

reply to post by pteridine


I don't know.

What would you do with depleted uranium?

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by pteridine

 

I don't know.

What would you do with depleted uranium?

I would try to avoid it. www.iacenter.org...

What would you do with it?