Possible Solution to the Khalezov, Deagle 9/11 Nuclear Demolition Theory

reply to post by pteridine

It should be stock piled if there is no way to keep from accumulating it as a by-product of the nuclear power industry. Its military use is probably unavoidable, realistically speaking.

I suspect it was used on the World Trade Center demolition and that it originated with the US Navy. If I had been one of the perps, I would have argued against its use for legal/forensic reasons, but I probably would have been overruled anyway because I would have been assured of the Bush administation's intention to sabotage the criminal investigation in the follow-up to the crime.

It is a tough problem.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
reply to post by pteridine
[more

I suspect it was used on the World Trade Center demolition and that it originated with the US Navy.

How do you suspect that it was used?

reply to post by pteridine

In a nutshell, through rejecting the idea that nuclear detonations were responsible for the demolition of the WTC, while attempting to come up with an alternate explanation for "First Responder's Syndrome", a medical issue that Dr. William Deagle suspects is related to the use of micro-nukes at the WTC, but which is, in my view, more likely to be related to the use of depleted uranium shaped charges.

Most people, even in the 9/11 truth movement, haven't considered that depleted uranium shaped charges may have been used at the WTC, although depleted uranium has been discussed in relation to the Pentagon incident.

They are a neat fit, both for the demolition and for the medical "syndrome" found among first responders who worked at Ground Zero.

reply to post by ipsedixit


There is no evidence of shaped charge demolitions. Other causes for first responder syndrome are more probable than depleted uranium. The fact that Deagle 'suspects' depleted uranium means that he has no evidence for depleted uranium. Why would conspirators use uranium in demolitions which would tend to make them more noticeable and provide additional evidence?
Deagle is clueless.

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

There is no evidence of shaped charge demolitions.

That is disputed. It is the way that buildings are brought down by the demolition industry in certain situations. Shaped charges are a ubiquitous tool in the industry. If one believes that the buildings were demolished for the obvious reasons, elaborated in numerous threads on ATS, symmetry of collapse, near free fall speed of collapse, uniqueness of collapse, then shaped charges automatically are assumed to have been used.

Here is a photo of one of the so-called "wheatchex" assemblies from the pile, showing the inside of the assembly, the side to which floor joists would have been attached, with the small welded ledges, which would have supported the floor joists, blown off and showing the scorch marks (circled in yellow) assumed to have been left by a shaped charge.

www.hoaxofthecentury.com...

Other causes for first responder syndrome are more probable than depleted uranium.

That's a side issue and not really relevant to the discussion.

The fact that Deagle 'suspects' depleted uranium means that he has no evidence for depleted uranium.

Whoever wrote this portion of your answer obviously hasn't read the thread.

Why would conspirators use uranium in demolitions which would tend to make them more noticeable and provide additional evidence?
Deagle is clueless.

Again, I addressed this earlier in the thread. If you are a committee, please all sit at the same table and try to come to an understanding of what has been posted before replying.

Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

There is no evidence of shaped charge demolitions.

That is disputed. It is the way that buildings are brought down by the demolition industry in certain situations. Shaped charges are a ubiquitous tool in the industry. If one believes that the buildings were demolished for the obvious reasons, elaborated in numerous threads on ATS, symmetry of collapse, near free fall speed of collapse, uniqueness of collapse, then shaped charges automatically are assumed to have been used.

Here is a photo of one of the so-called "wheatchex" assemblies from the pile, showing the inside of the assembly, the side to which floor joists would have been attached, with the small welded ledges, which would have supported the floor joists, blown off and showing the scorch marks (circled in yellow) assumed to have been left by a shaped charge.

Other causes for first responder syndrome are more probable than depleted uranium.

That's a side issue and not really relevant to the discussion.

"Assumed to have been left by a shaped charge." You could assume it to be left by a cutting torch or a hot hacksaw blade, too. Have you calculated how many charges would be necessary to cut the floor truss connections on every floor? Have you considered how the charges would be placed? Do you think that someone might have noticed? Do you see evidence of a cutter charge? [That would be a deposit of the liner material on either side of a cut, commonly copper.]

As to the first responder health problems, didn't Deagle look at similarities between GWS and FRS and assume that depleted Uranium was the common link. A "side issue" that is the basis of his theory and that has big holes in it. Similar vague symptoms do not mean similar causes. Linking depleted Uranium to GWS is difficult. Linking it to FRS without any evidence is groundless speculation, at best. You probably want to call it a side issue because you can't respond to it.
Your depleted Uranium shaped charge theory has nothing going for it. Judy and the DEW have a better argument.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Wrong as usual.....

Here are pictures of the truss seats on WTC columns

Notice how seats are attached (ie welded to the column)

Note the scars left on the columns as the welds holding seat to the columns were ripped away

www.aws.org...

I think the idea put forward in this thread is a real issue and should be looked into, for reasons which I've already stated. Obviously finding out the truth about the sort of shaped charges used on 9/11 will be difficult to do, but it still might be done, if not by scientific tests, then possibly through whistleblowers or other witnesses.

My understanding of the origin of Deagle's ideas on the WTC is that, taking note of the similarity between GW syndrome and FR syndrome, he looked at analysis of WTC dust found to contain elements associated with nuclear fission. His micro-nuke theory followed from that.

I have a hunch that he is off the track.

I think it makes more sense to look for depleted uranium shaped charges, but I can't argue the point on scientific grounds. Maybe it is Occam's razor at work.

Originally posted by ipsedixit
Obviously finding out the truth about the sort of shaped charges used on 9/11 will be difficult to do,

Just how will you find out what sort of shaped charges were used when none were used? This is typical truther think, very silly.

I think it makes more sense to look for depleted uranium shaped charges

as they do not exist, you will never find them

but I can't argue the point on scientific grounds.

Truthers never can, so nothing new there!

reply to post by ipsedixit


WHY?

Because I dont feed into your conspiracy fantasies?

Did you bother to look at the article in a welding journal concening the truss seats at the WTC and how they
were torn off the building during the collapse?

Or in typical truther mode you reject anything which opposes your conspiracy delusions......

reply to post by thedman


I urge people to look at your linked paper and to compare it with my posts. I've said what I had to say. People can think for themselves.

Even lead is pyrophoric under the right conditions.

Oh, and one more thing:

Here is a patent description for a manufacturing process associated with depleted uranium shaped charges, dated 1986.

metalpass.com...

United States Patent 4,592,790
Globus June 3, 1986

Method of making particulate uranium for shaped charge liners . . .

The invention is characterized by the use of specific depleted uranium powder compositions and namely mixtures of such depleted uranium powders, the powder particles having been coated with silver, lead and/or copper, such that the uranium content of the finished liner for the shaped charge amounts to at least 20% by weight of the mixture and preferably at least 40% by weight thereof. . . .

The mixture of powders is then compressed and formed into liners for shaped charges. These charges can then be inserted in the form of pressed cones into explosive shells. Utilizing such explosives enables the user to attain perforations of at least fifteen (15) inches into solid rock as compared with a possible six (6) inches for copper powder used under the same conditions.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Do we know how loud they would be? I can't find videos of the charges being used, and the information I'm finding is that these things are known as dirty bombs and are banned for being a type of WMD when used as bombs.

What kind of radiation would be released by each charge, and can you argue the effects are any different than the known-present asbestos which is the currently blamed carcinogen that caused first-respondents health problems?

reply to post by Varemia

This is a very involved area of inquiry, which I'm only starting to look into. At present in my own research I am following another train of thought involving the explosive characteristics of hyperbaric weapons. These weapons, which are third generation uranium, not depleted uranium, but uranium weapons generate a high temperature plasma and leave virtually no detectable radiation signature when they are detonated.

The high temperature molten metal at the WTC is more easily understood in the context of shaped charges and demolition charges that create a plasma burning at 20,000 degrees centigrade.

I want to go back to accounts of WTC survivors to read descriptions of what they experienced near the building to see if it tallies with experiences of survivors of hyperbaric explosions in Iraq and elsewhere.

There is a lot to do on this issue. I feel it is an important line of inquiry. I hope other truthers will look into it.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I'm not sure about that being the cause of the underground fires. If you've ever made a camp-fire, you'll know that the embers can smolder for a very long time under the ash. With the trade center complex, it's a large amount of space, and according to some of the witnesses, gas-lines were likely broken and creating fireballs underground. This would create a number of the initial heat pockets, I imagine.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: Here's one testimony that I read which describes the underground fireballs, a ways down the page:

www.bowhunter.com...

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

I'm not sure about that being the cause of the underground fires.

I'll take a look at your link. Molten metal was reported to have been seen flowing like lava in pockets of the pile by firemen.

There has been a lot of work done by doctors in Iraq, tracking the symptoms of what are presumed to be diseases caused by depleted uranium munitions. Incidents of multiple cancers, etc. Alpha particles are not easily detected by Geiger counters of the sort used during the clean up of the pile because the radiation only travels a couple of inches before being absorbed by the air.

However, if breathed in, the dust emitting the particle can come to rest somewhere in an internal organ and continue to radiate within a small area of the body, causing cancer there, or simultaneously generate cancer in multiple parts of the body.

That is thought to be one of the signatures of exposure to radioactive dust. It is one of the disease paradigms seen in Iraq.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Yes, the unfortunate thing is that asbestos is known to directly cause cancer, which is why it is banned from use as fireproofing in buildings nowadays. There was certainly asbestos in the air on 9/11, and many of the first-respondents have cancer now.

This wikipedia page sums it up well:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Varemia

There were definitely a lot of carcinogens in the WTC dust. Only a careful study of what was in that dust can determine the likelihood of the products of uranium or depleted uranium weapons being present.

The asbestos problem in the building of course provided a window of opportunity for work to be done in the building's crawl spaces, something that could be done at any time and over a long period of time without arousing suspicion. In fact tenants of the towers would have expected, maybe even insisted, that every inter-floor crawl space be entered by workmen to conduct assessments of the asbestos situation. Their insurance companies may well have insisted on it.

Enter your friendly black ops demolition technician with his bag of shaped charges. This could have gone on for months or even years.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Ah, but only on the lower floors, as asbestos use was halted during construction.

Anyway, I don't really see why depleted uranium would be advantageous. A regular charge would do the job, if charges were used, right?