Outside energy had to be introduced for the twin towers to collapse the way they did

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by -PLB-

 

do you want me to write an equation that factors in velocity to show it doesn't effect the outcome, but only makes the process faster or slower?

lets see... (Tx - Bx)*9.8=? same answer.

acceleration is multiplied to both sides equally, because the amount of force you give is the amount of force you take. the top floors give the same amount of force to the bottom as the bottom gives to the top. that's newton's third law.

ergo, velocity does not change the outcome, but only the size of the numbers. 1/5=10/50. same thing.

The point is the design of the floors in the WTC TWIN TOWERS, the floors were suspended between the walls and the core on seats basically bits of angle iron.

When any MASS fell on a floorslab the only thing that could RESIST THE IMPACT LOAD was the floorslab connections CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT it didnt matter how much MASS was below a floorslab because of the fact that slabs were suspended between the walls and core!!!

So if that slab failed the only way was down !!! that would then add to the mass falling on the next slab the impacts also caused problems for the walls as they lost stability so the only way was down!

The MASS of the falling floors was contained by the walls they then gave way.

WATCH HERE FROM 0:30 TO 0:34 TELLS US WERE THE 15 FLOORS OF MASS WENT!!!



Then work out the IMPACT force !!!! the concrete alone would be 15 x 700 = 10500 tons

reply to post by wmd_2008

When any MASS fell on a floorslab the only thing that could RESIST THE IMPACT LOAD was the floorslab connections CAN YOU NOT SEE THAT it didnt matter how much MASS was below a floorslab because of the fact that slabs were suspended between the walls and core!!!

consider this. what would happen if the bottom floors fell on the top floors? let's just round it off and say 90 floors on 20. the 20 would be crushed first, right? the 20 definetly wouldn't survive intact to destroy all the other floors.

mathematically and physically it is the same as the 20 falling on the 90. 20 stories falling 90 floors (the max potential energy) "F=ma" is 20*90*9.8m/s. we get 17640. 90 stories falling 20 stories is 90*20*9.8m/s. that's 17640.

perspectives can be deceiving. the 20 stories would break at the same rate as the floors under them (actually at a faster rate, because of the fire damage and stronger supports lower, but we're going to round it off in the OS's favor). so why do we see the 20 stories surviving all the way down, and not breaking like the floors under them did?

resistance was removed. fire and uneven structural damage can't create a synchronous global failure.

reply to post by -PLB-


i wrote an equation that gives a higher value to the OS theory than actually existed. i factored in the failed floors as intact AND providing space for acceleration.

basically, you're stalling because you're wrong.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

...the OS'er model requires the floors to be free floating with no resistance between them, and no resistance under them.

...And no resistance from themselves. IF all the connections failed AND the floors were not destroyed and ejected horizontally, as per the OSers claims, then they would stack up and create resistance themselves. Floors lower down in the stack may be crushed flat, but the higher up the stack with less mass falling on them, the floors would still be whole and visible in the footprints.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


No, you did not factor in the failed floors. Your "equation" only shows you neither know and understand physics nor math.

reply to post by ANOK


Yes, floors that are no longer connected to anything and completely free to fall down are offering resistance. It is because of their magical floating power, right Anok?

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by superluminal11

D.E.W Directed Energy Weapon

Can you tell us more about the Truther Physics used to power this D.E.W. Weapon. Did it produce a 8.5 KiloTon blast ? How did they harness the power of the hurricane. Please tell us more.

I think what he is trying to tell you to go and read Dr. Judy Wood' book "Where Did The Towers Go"

AS I've said here many times, all the answers are in the book.

Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by ANOK

 

Yes, floors that are no longer connected to anything and completely free to fall down are offering resistance. It is because of their magical floating power, right Anok?

What happens when things fall down, and drop on something under them? They stop falling due to resistance.

Now, you want to believe all the floors stayed in their footprints, and slammed down on top of each other. What happens when all the floors are sitting in top of each other, after falling because all the connection have failed? The floors can not fall any further, because they have nowhere else to go, right? They are stacked up like 'pancakes' with no space between them. They resist their own complete collapse to the ground.

Unless of course you now want to admit the floors did not stay within their footprints, and were actually ejected horizontally from force of impact, or other reasons? But then of course you are losing mass required to collapse other floors.

Either way, the physics does not support your claims.

Originally posted by ANOK


...And no resistance from themselves. IF all the connections failed AND the floors were not destroyed and ejected horizontally, as per the OSers claims, then they would stack up and create resistance themselves. Floors lower down in the stack may be crushed flat, but the higher up the stack with less mass falling on them, the floors would still be whole and visible in the footprints.

Again with the apcray!!!!! Anok! Mr. Disinfo himself. Wake up. You have yet to even begin to explain just how you have any evidence to base your nonsense about the floors being ejected. I feel like the guy at the end of a circus train with the waste basket and a shovel, cleaning up your messes. Can you show us one, JUST ONE photo taken up close of any of the collapsing towers that show the floor trusses being ejected along with the steel floor pans and concrete? Just one. I beg of you for your sake.

The floors stayed in the footprint. Workers cut into the footprint and discovered stacks and stacks of floors compressed into a fraction of their original sizes. You have been shown photos. Enough is enough. You have been caught lying waaaaay too many times on this. How would the floors be clearly visible in the pile, when you still had the top section falling top of it all? Did you stop and think about that before you opened your mouth and made a fool of yourself, AGAIN? No of course not. No matter how many times you have been proven wrong, you insist to repeat the WRONG thing over and over. You are no longer a "truther" but a disinfo agent. Pure and simple. You purposely say the lies and incorrect information to keep the truther train on the tracks, even though, A) The train has long derailed, and B) the train is burning.

Originally posted by ANOK

What happens when things fall down, and drop on something under them? They stop falling due to resistance.

Really? They just stop? Just like that?
What if there is very little resistance? What then?

Now, you want to believe all the floors stayed in their footprints, and slammed down on top of each other. What happens when all the floors are sitting in top of each other, after falling because all the connection have failed? The floors can not fall any further, because they have nowhere else to go, right? They are stacked up like 'pancakes' with no space between them. They resist their own complete collapse to the ground.

But the floors' connections were very weak in comparison to the overwhelming dynamic loads dropping on it. They just kept going down, smashing through the connections with ease, until, woops, no where to go. The basement stopped the collapse. The basement apparently had enough resistance to stop the collapse from going to the center of the Earth.

Unless of course you now want to admit the floors did not stay within their footprints, and were actually ejected horizontally from force of impact, or other reasons? But then of course you are losing mass required to collapse other floors.

Either way, the physics does not support your claims.

edit on 9/23/2011 by ANOK because: typo

Uhh but the floors did. Can you show me one photo of the floors being ejected horizontally, with floor trusses and steel pans and concrete slabs in plain view? Just one? Pretty pleeeeese? With whip cream and a cherry on top? Pretty PLEASE?

reply to post by -PLB-


(16x-89x)9.8m/s=-715.4x

the result is still negative by a long shot, which means newtons 3rd law is violated. quit with the stalling tactics, it's kind of sad.

that's mass factored in, failed floors factored in, acceleration factored in, and all the pigeon poop on the roof added too.

you say my math and physics is wrong, but you never show it or do any of your own math.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


So BOB please tell everyone WHAT kind of IMPACT LOAD could 31 FLOORS for the South Tower OR 15 FLOORS for the North Tower generate. IN TONS!!!!!!

YOU think your a whizz at this so give us an IDEA ????

THEN of this IMPACT LOAD what proportion hits the floor slab just your best guess for that what % of the falling mass hits the floorslab below???

reply to post by ANOK


I know already you are unable to fathom that floors can both break into pieces and remain mostly inside the perimeter. Its not that you are too stupid, but it would destroy part of your delusion when you accept that as viable option.

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


Your understanding of physics is just way too little when you think you have a model here that bares any resemblance with the WTC collapse. But you are the first truther I have seen who gave it a shot, so kudos for that.

reply to post by -PLB-

my "model" is a simple statement of newton's third law. i've asked and asked how it is "wrong" or "too simple" but you never reply with numbers, just "you're wrong".

lets see some.

reply to post by wmd_2008


obvious troll is obvious.

if you really are asking that question, then yes, the amount of force that the top floors coming down would generate would be pretty big, but the resistance of the larger mass is greater.

the whole point is that velocity doesn't play a vital role because both sides are multiplied by the same constant (9.8m/s^2) and as we are multiplying acceleration by the mass, it's already representing F=ma.

plug the numbers in for yourself if you want to know, the actual weight changes nothing as each floor weighs about the same, and we'll never know the exact weight of each floor, so you'd divide the mass of the building by how many floors, and multiply that number by the top and bottom floors. the result is the same.

Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by ANOK

 

I know already you are unable to fathom that floors can both break into pieces and remain mostly inside the perimeter. Its not that you are too stupid, but it would destroy part of your delusion when you accept that as viable option.

No, you are unable to fathom that the floors were not in the footprint post collapse, and the only logical explanation is they were ejected out of the footprint during the collapse.

How would the floors stay in the footprint after being broken up? So the floors crashing together, that caused the air pressure you talk about that took out windows multiple floors bellow the collapse wave, would also not cause the rubble to be forced horizontally? What would keep the rubble inside the footprint? How did all that rubble get outside of the footprint after it had stopped collapsing?

....as evidenced by FEMA...



Try dropping a plate, and tell me where the pieces go.

reply to post by wmd_2008


It doesn't matter how much force the top had, as long as what it is falling on has more force pushing back, equal opposite reaction law.

More mass, more force pushing back.

95 floors has more mass to push back against 15 floors.

Your main misunderstanding is with momentum. Like a lot of layman you can't get your head around the fact that an object with momentum puts no more force on stationary object than what that stationary object puts on the object with velocity. Equal opposite reaction law. Velocity increases the force felt by BOTH objects, equally.

It's actually common sense if you really stop and think about it for one second, instead of continually denying reality and facts.

4. Which of the following statements are true about collisions?

a. Two colliding objects will exert equal forces upon each other even if their mass is significantly different.

www.physicsclassroom.com...

Answer....

a. TRUE - In any collision between two objects, the colliding objects exert equal and opposite force upon each other. This is simply Newton's law of action-reaction.

www.physicsclassroom.com...

Now, quit saying we're wrong and address the equal opposite reaction, and momentum conservation laws, in context with 110 concrete, and steel panned, floors collapsing themselves into the ground.

Originally posted by ANOK


Now, quit saying we're wrong and address the equal opposite reaction, and momentum conservation laws, in context with 110 concrete, and steel panned, floors collapsing themselves into the ground.

So how does gravity work in Truther World ?

How do you turn it off after the top block of floors collapse an equal number of lower floors ?

reply to post by ANOK


I indeed can not fathom that the majority of the floors ejected, because there is no physics that can explain that, nor any evidence to support it, and I don't believe in magic.