Why are Americans so Vengeful?

Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by MRSeuphoric1
OMG...seriously I am gonna pull my hair out.

This is another incorrect statement, and by the way, guns dont kill people, people kill people. Probably chalk all school shootings up to bad parenting/supervision/ or mental illness.


Okay, respectfully, here is my opinion on your rant since you asked for it,
Read about the US constitution. Read what our fore fathers intended the laws and rules to be. Then study history/current government and you will notice that yes, those rights are being stripped from us. Then ask your self who can change it??? And are you part of the solution??? If your not part of the solution, then your a part of the problem.

Guns don't kill people no, but they make it much easier and likely for people to kill people. I agree school shootings are the result of bad parenting and mental illness (not to mention bullying), but the fact is if we had tighter gun laws, most of them would not happen.

That laststatement was in no way verifiable as a"fact"...
Funny; ALL school shootings occur in "gun -free zones!" Its against the law. No guns within 1000 feet of a school.
Isuppose you'd make the entire interior of the u.s. a
a"gun free zone"? Lovely....

Originally posted by m1991
Our forefathers originally meant for the Constitution to only apply for white males. It wasn't written by God and wasn't a perfect document. If it was, it wouldn't have had to be amended so many times.

Originally posted by m1991

Maybe militant would be a better term. Or maybe forgiving of little things but vengeful of big things? Though I get the idea many Americans would shoot a person to save their TV, even if there was no threat to their life, and then sleep like a baby. I dunno.

I wouldn't even kill a person to protect my family. Hurt them yeah, but I don't think I would kill them intentionally. I suppose if I got too pumped up, I might kill them by accident. Trying to kill them on purpose to me would feel like a revenge murder, but I would do what I needed to ...

edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)

Wow.. so you've totally bought into the mind control stuff that is being spewed for the purpose of disarming America so that TPTB can totally take over without any resistance. Good job! Way to go! Thanks for trying to sell us out, guy.

Like a brainwashed, foolish pawn, you'd let them kill you and your family. Oh you're making some power-crazed, greedy dictator wanna-be drool with delight! They are so proud of you and how gullible and easily guilt tripped you are. They just wish the rest of us Americans could be so easily misled and consequently disarmed, darn it!

Why do you think TPTB haven't taken over America yet?? Even Japan's WWII Fleet Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto said, "Japan would never invade the United States. We would find a rifle behind every blade of grass." That hasn't changed other than now they would run into a lot more handguns too.

TPTB don't really know, even with all their super weapons, that they would win. It is part of why all of our "national guards" are away from home, overseas. If TPTB see a chance to implement martial law on a national level and then try to disarm the average citizenry, they can go for it and not worry about the national guard taking the sides of the American citizens (which they would, because they are american citizens too). Even still, they are afraid they wouldn't win. And the militia are springing up for a reason (and being persecuted for a reason) because they'll be about the only groups really organized to initially resist the take over attempt.

Just a little side note about the effects of every house being required to have a firearm:

Kennesaw, Georgia enacted a law in 1982 requiring every household to own a firearm, exempting those with criminal records or religious objections. Opponents argued the law would result in serious accidents and that angry residents would settle their differences with gunfire. Happily, those predictions never materialized.

The residential burglary rate in Kennesaw fell immediately -- almost 90 percent in the months directly following the law's enactment. That drop far outpaced the more modest 10.4 percent drop in the entire state of Georgia during the same period.

In the ensuing years, Kennesaw's crime rate has remained at basement levels. In 2001, there was not one murder in the town. No one was gunned down, even though the entire town is armed! The law has continued to work well for 20 years.

And their burglary rate? Well, it seems that thieves are still scared to enter the premises of the average Kennesaw home. Burglaries are still down more than 80 percent.

Kennesaw's results should not be surprising. Guns are a deterrent to bad guys.

And further:

Opponents argued that more guns in people's homes would lead to more shootings, more killings and more carnage. It would mean increased liability for the town.

The liability argument seems spurious at best. And it is inconsistent. If one can hold a town like Kennesaw... liable when a gun accident occurs, then why can't one use the liability argument in cities that have taken the opposite approach?

Why isn't the anti-gun city of Washington, D.C. liable for every unarmed victim who is murdered within its jurisdiction? That city has basically said, "Don't protect yourself. That job belongs to us."

But they can't. And they haven't.

Washington, D.C. used to have a relatively low crime rate in the 1960s. It never used to be the nation's Murder Capital.

But that all changed after the city passed its draconian gun ban in 1976. In the following 25 years, the city's murder rate has increased 51 percent, even while the national rate has decreased 36 percent.

You see, taking guns away from good people never makes them safer. It should be obvious by now.

Thankfully, most people in this country are still allowed to own firearms for their protection. Nearly 7,000 people use a gun to defend their lives every day.

Passing a law that says everyone in a town must own a gun would be a good thing. It would be like putting a sign on every door saying, "This home is protected by Smith & Wesson."

Criminals don't like such signs.

Like Robert A. Heinlein said, "An armed society is a polite society." I know I was sure glad I had my 9mm when some a#hole stuck a gun thru my espresso stand window and tried to rob me. I threw hot cocoa in his face and went for MY gun... you know, he didn't hang around.. he was running faster than anyone I've ever seen when I got to the back door with my gun in hand. If I hadn't had a gun... I think things might have turned out a LOT differently and not in a good way.

Originally posted by m1991

Originally posted by Aleksander

I agree we should be a more forgiving and tolerant society but how many times are you going to forgive someone that keeps doing the same unforgivable acts? You lable Americians as being vengful, like all 300 million + are all in the same category, how arrogant of you to say. How many of those 300 million americians do you know? Where are you getting this information? you base your opinion on what? our government? our media? Seems like just another USA Basher, I dont think in good conscience i could come on here and say all british are lazy, or all australians are dumb, when I know very few and only get the benifit of the media to base those opinions. the few British people I actually know have been some of the nicest and smartest people i know, as well as some of the Aussies I know, Hell I have an Aussie for a Brother in Law.

I dont agree with how our country is being run anymore then the rest of the world, and I am sure its easy to sit on your laptop and bash another culture cause of what a select few people have done. We are not the only country in the world that display acts of vengence, greed, pettiness.

Jesus said forgive seventy seven times seven, I mean I'm not saying we should just let Manson free, but I think it's wrong to hate even the worst people. No matter how bad a person is, they should not be put to death. I find it shocking how most people in this country still like the idea of execution. It's the 21st century for crying out loud. I'm glad you agree with my basic premise we should be more forgiving though.

I never said every American was vengeful, of course there's a good 20-30% who aren't. The vast majority are though, and this thread has proven that as hardly anyone here agrees with me that we should be a more forgiving people. I base my opinion (it's really fact tbh) on Gallup polls and all the Americans I've met online and in real life. By the way I AM an American so it's not like I'm bashing some foreign country.

No you're right, we're not the only country that is vengeful, greedy, petty or has vice. However, were are not as nice, charitable, righteous, and so on as we pump ourselves up to be. In fact I find American culture in general pretty mean-spirited in a lot of ways.

Execution out of Hate I agree would be morally wrong, but execution out of the need for Justice is in my opinion diffrent as long as it's for justice and not personal reason. take your example manson, and all the other that kill for that sake of killing or for hateful reasons, not the people that are truly mentally ill, but the ones that know what they are doing. If sending these guys to prision to be rehabilitated did not work after 2 or three times would it not be more responsable to humanity as a whole mentally and resource wise to document theses ppl and their behavior and quickly do away with them, unless they are contributing to society why should everyone else be burdened with feeding them making sure they have the better medical care then you or I

I can not argue with pretty much anything else you said there as I agree with you,forgivness and tolerance is greatly needed in this world. somehow we need to fix the family structure, the work week and our educational system to meet modern standards. There are so many houses in america and technology to grow foods that it amazes me we have homeless starving people over here. The education system used to be top notch for everyone in the 50 to the 70's. Parents are not allowed to spend as much time with their children, to teach them discpline and manners. Instead they have to leave that talks to teachers who anymore with the ammount of kids they have to teach in the way they ahve to teach , lose patience and somce times losses it one the kids.

High School needs to be redone and the whole popularity racket needs to end, It should be a time of learning and social bonding, not who has the best materialistic item, or the best hair. Maybe have students learn a for of matrialy art's from kindergarden through 12th grade like ti chi to help foster self displine and respect to others, who knows but great change is needed now so we dont have to resort to punishment by death.

I like that you have a good grasp on the world at your age makes me hopeful for our youth!

Originally posted by charles1952
Sorry, apparently i failed to realize it, too. I re-read the opening post, and there is a sentence or two about bombing, but almost all of the post talks about the American personality using domestic examples. Would you explain to me the parts about our worldwide presence as found in the opening post?

I'm not going to get into a drawn out semantics debate with you. If you can't read the opening post and use basic reasoning skills to understand that the OP is upset with how America is operating in 'the world', and how Americans deal with it domestically, then I'm not going to explain it to you, frankly.

Originally posted by charles1952
I don't understand your point about "excessive military."

Right.

Originally posted by charles1952
I'm sorry to admit how confused I am, but since the argument is based on an opposition to violence, vengenance, and all that sort of stuff, do you then approve of: "it's going to chopped down, spat on, toppled and dragged away kicking and screaming."

Thats what some would call a "metaphor". If you need an example, refer to the fall of the Berlin wall and the toppling of a regime. My "vengeance" is a docile, reasoning form of 'vengeance'. Call it, "reacting to an atrocity". This is an amazing, almost comical debate. You're trying to tell me I'm hypocritical, by being vengeful, because I react negatively to the willful destruction of third world nations, an oppressive military, and the ignorance that supports it. Therefore I sympathize with the OP, and I see where he is coming from. There is no 'angst' or ignorance in his post.

It's just downright silly that you could say I'm "violent" or "vengeful" in light of the knowledge surrounding this topic. I like how, in America, you're supposedly 'not genuine', unless you have monk-like altruism in your arguments against America's foreign policy and wholesale destruction of other countries. "Oh, you used an ambiguous metaphor once, your argument is invalid and America is still incredible."

reply to post by 46ACE


Well said..Guns are not the only common denominator in school shootings..I believe the SSRI class anti-depressants are also usually present....but those are use to help not hurt.

reply to post by m1991


Because, our ultimate goal is to conquer the world duh.

Sorry, but that is as simple as I can put it. It goes back to our defiance towards the Crown and the old way of things, America is about a new beginning, a new Aeon, a NWO, whatever. The way we set up D.C. We called on help from the 'gods' to carry out this task. This is why we are so close with Israel, this is why why are crusading once again in the holy land, it truly IS A HOLY WAR so to speak. The killing part sucks, but war comes and goes like the seasons.

The problem is that corruption is everywhere, and we will first be humbled before we rule the nations in the Aeon.

Rise Phoenix, Rise.

From the smoke and ashes of degradation, to perfect glory and righteousness.

YES.TRUTH.

so america is worse than any other world state?.... take a little trip around africa for starters then come and talk

As long as there are humans on this planet you will always have conflict and revenge don't matter what country your in it's human nature.

reply to post by NightShift

Canadians never take vengeance. They never go to war! They only fight when the King or Queen of England is in trouble, because even though Canadians love peace, the Kings and Queens of England are delicate and need to be protected from Germans.

?? hunh?? they only fight when the king and queen are in trouble?

The kings and queens of England are of German descent.. from my understanding...and they certainly aren't delicate...

but your whole post was a joke..correct?

Originally posted by zenobserva
so america is worse than any other world state?.... take a little trip around africa for starters then come and talk

Yes, because America should learn to conduct itself on the world stage by not exceeding the merits and foreign policy of war-torn, warlord-led Africa.

It's nice to know the bar is that low. Wow, America can really succeed after all.

because ower parents believe in a god that has yet to show him self and there for know nothing and the cops would take a bribe over doing their job every day of the week and no one cares about any one in general we all look at each other like they are the last person and we dont shoot enuf people

Thank you SyphonX for clarifying matters for me. Thank you also for showing why the OP is wrong and the opponents are right. Let me explain it to you.

I came to you with humble politeness, asking questions which were germane. Imagine that I was a humble country seeking friendly, cooperative relations. Instead of pointing out that the OP doesn't support the idea of an American presence in the world no matter how hard anyone tried to find it, this humble nation asked the "great powerful nation" to consider it.

Gently, the humble nation asked for information about military strength instead of saying to the "great powerful nation", "You have no business telling us what our military strength should be."

The other questions were similar.

Two of the four questions were completely ignored. The other two questions were answered in a condescending, insulting manner. In a way which no country, however humble, could ignore. THESE OBSERVATIONS ARE VITAL TO THE OP.

They are vital because they show that even if Americans reach out to others, there is a good chance they will be slapped, ignored, hated, and attacked by countries who claim falsely to be peaceful. (In case of confusion, I call this an extended metaphor)

Americans would be foolish to listen to the countries who encourage us to be more peaceful, when we have just demonstrated what the result will be.

I am not, currently, a gun owner, but this experiment in relations shows me that the only sane policy is to be militarily overwhelmingly powerful, and individually prepared.

Thank you, SyphonX

reply to post by NightShift

Good stuff, Nightshift.
I agree with all your points. I think you forgot about the peaceful countries of the Middle east, though. Your sober analysis should not be wasted in this thread. I think your own version of this OP, combined with your serious and truthful commentary would be the best bet. Simply a request.
I understand that you might be busy fending off attack by violent Americans, so I understand if you do not have the time.

War.
(American sign off as opposed to "Peace" used by all other cultures).

Originally posted by The Old American
Nice troll thread. To anyone that doesn't know, an m1991 is a Colt .45 1911 (hope to get a 1911 for my birthday, BTW). It's also a rocket system used by the North Korean army.

Interesting that the OP's forum name is the same as that of those two items, yes?

/TOA

edit on 2-9-2011 by The Old American because: (no reason given)

i had no idea about that actually. i just chose m1991 because my name starts with M and 1991 is a palindrome and a (kind of) recent year.

Originally posted by dannotz
I'm American, i don't think i'm vengeful?

Don't just put errybody in a big pot together.

you and me both. but i think if 70% of Americans are vengeful, it's fair to say, as a group, Americans are generally vengeful people. im just glad there's some exceptions to the 'rule'

Originally posted by m1991

I don't hate America. I just wish we weren't so vengeful and merciless. We have this idea of us being meek, righteous Christians, but we have NO sense of turning the other cheek

So merciless?

Not meek?

America does not turn the other cheek?

REALLY?

America is turning the other cheek right now with Iran!!
Letting them build *peaceful* nuclear plants when we know
what the real intention is as quoted by Ahman dinajabi
to wipe israel off the face of the earth?
The US military could burry Iran in an hour!!
Merciless is Iran stoning gay people!
Merciless is Iran stoning women accused of cheating!



Turn the other cheek?
North Korea is still around ONLY because
we are turning the other cheek!

The whole troll factor from that post is out of control.

Merciless when Afghanistan was ran by the Taliban
The whole place could of been wiped out.

Same with IRAQ. WAS SADDAM not killing the kurds in droves?
Saddam did not deserve to be brought to justice?
Iraq could of been non-existent!

reply to post by gabby2011


Correct!

I'm just kind of tired of America-bashing and decided to hold up a mirror to the silly posts that result from it.

What I didn't expect was that so many would (at least partially) take me seriously. It shows how formulaic, predictable and ultimately ridiculous such posts are.

People get far too caught up in the fallacy of "us/them". Americans are vengeful because all humans are vengeful. It takes a mighty effort to rise above the base nature of our animal selves. One moment of weakness, tragedy, fear, or greed and people lapse into lashing out.

Americans are no better or worse than anyone else....especially since we are just a mosaic of the rest of the world. All the "pieces" in place here are of foreign origin. While I would NOT argue that the drum of fear has not been sounded loudly in America, I do take issue with others who deny that such a drum has been beating across the world all the time, since time immemorial. If you are reading this, here on ATS, it is beating right next to you.

We come here to drown that sound out with truth.

Show me a people who feel they are without "sin," and I will show you the next belligerents. We have our fair share of that here in the states, but then again, so does EVERYONE else. War is the result of a chain of mistakes, and mankind is truly error-prone.

Originally posted by m1991
Like compared to Europeans, Canadians, and most other First Worlders? I'm an American, and it's pretty obvious to me that American culture puts vengeance on a pedestal. I mean New Zealand police don't even carry guns, but we shoot people just for looting TV sets.

Just think about it I mean. America has the largest military the Earth has ever seen, and most people in America don't feel outraged about using it for whatever reason, unless a lot of American troops die and a lot of American money is wasted. Bombing entire nations into the Stone Age is acceptable retribution to many Americans for killing 3,000 of us.

Most Americans continue to support the death penalty even though most Americans also believe innocent people are occasionally put to death. I guess it's a price worth paying to exact full payback? To be fair, most Canadians also supported the concept of the death penalty until very recently, and even now it's probably a 50/50 split, but many European countries oppose it by a vast majority. If you compare Hong Kong's crime demographics (a place with no death penalty) to culturally and socially similar Singapore's (a place that uses it so much Texans might blush) you will see no evidence that the death penalty has any kind of deterring effect.

And let's face it, the reason Americans are gun-crazed isn't just because of the Second Amendment. It's because a lot of people here just love the idea of blowing someone's head off if they intrude on their property. Not to mention people love guns because they wanna feel like they're in a Hollywood movie or on the TV show Lost (love the show, but how many hundreds of gun scenes are in it?) The argument that banning guns would increase crime because only criminals would have them is wrong. If that were true, Australia, Canada, and Britain would have far more gun-related murders than the States. Besides, otherwise law abiding citizens who loved guns could still obtain them illegally if they wanted to badly enough, so it wouldn't be that ONLY thugs had guns, it would be simply a lot less people in general would have guns.

The worst thing too is Americans are especially unforgiving of the less fortunate. We hate people who go on SSI yet re-elect those who steal billions of dollars. Isn't our indignation misplaced?

The point is, I would like to see a change from this vengeful and militaristic attitude in America. I would like us to become a peace loving and forgiving kind of people. Until then, I'm gonna laugh every time I hear people talk about Americans being the best people on Earth.

edit on 2-9-2011 by m1991 because: (no reason given)

After Adolf Hitler and the maniac Nazi movement and now 9/11 the U.S. does more to help the world.One could argue it is to much progress.

Sorry guys, but I'm starting to think this place isn't really my scene. I hope the New World Order is defeated, but tbh I really hope you guys aren't the order that replaces it, because the only solutions you know are blood and guts. None of you guys really 'get' the power of peace. Well, a few of you do, but not very many.

Thank you for all your answers people.

When American Presidents leave office the live out their remaining years in peace. In many other countires, the new regime arrests them, gives them a show trial, and imprisons them or worse. And you say that Americans are vengeful?

Earlier this year when a Congresswoman was shot, the assailant was not torn limb-from-limb by the crowd. Instead he was held down until the proper authorities arrived. In addition, no riot ensued. No cars were overturned or burned. No shops were looted. And you say that Americans are vengeful?

Have you not heard of the Trojan War? When the Trojans made off with the Queen of Sparta, the Greeks attacked Troy, killed all the males, enslaved all the females, and made the very ground infertal. America on the otherhand did inflict terrible damage upon her enemies during WWII, we then spent billions of dollars rebuilding their countires. And you say we are vengeful?