For anyone that has any doubt as to the identity of Jesus Christ

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["Do I sense a tinge of belief of JC in your post Bogomil?"]

Not in JC, but in J, and that only implies that he was a wise guy, a maverick against OT tyranny and worthy of respect. That is...... the character described by the two-gods bible-relaters.

There may even have existed a real physical human being around whom all the hallabaloo is constructed.

Quote: ["If he does not exist, then there is no harm."]

Apart from a few million madmen, who DO believe he exists, and that it is their holy duty to interfere elitistically with mankind in various ways (the number is an estimate).

Quote: [" If he does exist, then I am praying to Jesus to save a lost soul. Once again, no harm done."]

Probably not, but you have just proven your self-proclaimed right to act on behalf of other people, as YOU do believe in it. You are probably operating from your own premises on this, and believe it has effect.

reply to post by XplanetX


I am glad your source mentions The Talmud. I have a very good friend who is a Jewish Rabbi, and a very well educated fellow who has researched the history of his, and the other religions for a great many years. Here is what he told me about worshipping the so called man named "Jesus." He said "The man himself was made up by the Romans in Ancient times, and anyone who worships this man, (who did not fulfill the prophecies outlined in the Talmud for the real Messiah,) is in mortal danger of losing his/her soul." We have had many discussions on this very subject, and he has read all of the stuff brought forth by the Christians in an attempt to prove bloodline and divinity of their saviour. The evidence is quite mixed, as if long ago a giant conspiracy was perpetrated to fool everyone who looked deeply into the religion for proof.

To me, what people tend to call "God" (a job description, not a proper title) is a collective of many Ancient beings, some of may have even been of Divine origin. But to elevate a common man to the same level as a Divine Being is beyond my way of thinking. To me there is a Creator and a Creatoress, God and Goddess, whom I just call "Father," and "Mother." He provides the power, she distributes it quite wisely. She is the Earth itself, it is a sentient being worthy of our love and devotion, we really should take better care of Her.

Whatever you think, remember this always:
There are but two kinds of people on planet Earth.
Those who Serve Others, and those who Serve Self.
Every decision you have, or ever will make is based on only one of two things, there is no other choice.
Love, or Fear.

So, you must ask yourself....is my religion a thing of love, or is it rather based on fear? Fear of God, fear of the Devil, fear of Hell?

Some links for you to ponder:
10 Christ like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus

How the Jesus Myth was Created

Exposing Christianity

Bible Atrocities - Compiled by Donald Morgan

God's Mistakes

A List of Biblical Contradictions (1992) - Jim Meritt

GODDESS AS CREATRIX OF THE UNIVERSE

The Goddess--I, Introduction and History

Love and Light to all Beings!

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Next time do a little research you deceitful little devil. Your lies have found you out.

So now I am a little devil? Sounds just like a lot of Christians. See my post on the polarities of Christianity: Why the Polar Opposites in Christianity?
You probably would never read it, so here is a little quote:
"On the one side is God and Jesus.
On the other side is Satan and the Anti-Christ.

There is no middle ground, folks, you are with them, or you are with Satan, and that's all there is to it. This is all based of course, on their book. None will admit all of the translations and changes it has gone though, nor will any of them do any research on the origins of words or stories found in the book. Any earlier books or texts are "lies," or "work of the Devil." I don't know a lot about Islam, but my take on the extreme version is quite like this, either or. Don't these two book religions realize the heartache and bloodshed they have caused with this "belief system?" Right now, at this moment, Christianity is at war with Islam. Where does it end? When you destroy the world?"

So, I have to ask you, if I am the Devil, does that make you God?
I also have to reference this post, it fits here most perfectly:
Why do the Christians think they are always right?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by idonotcollectstamps
After having read this thread I am going to have to vote for the side that says that Jesus never even existed. Having used the evidence presented as my guide it is very clear to me that Jesus was never actually a real person but rather a mythical made up fictional character. Just like Zeus, and Horus, and Io and Ra and every other made up fictional religous character and diety.

Sorry but jesus is the weakest link, jesus you are FIRED!

I have to agree, most wholeheartedly! Does this Jesus ever actually answer prayers?

Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:
1) And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

2) Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

3) Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst. (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

4) Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him. Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours. (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

5) And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

6) And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it. (John 14:13-14 NAB)

7) If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you. (John 15:7 NAB)

8) It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you. (John 15:16 NAB)

9) On that day you will not question me about anything. Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you. Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete. (John 16:23-24 NAB)

www.evilbible.com...

I agree with all of that quote, friend, and here is why. I once had 20 some Christians, filled with hate because I challenged them on this very thing. The leader told me; "they were going to pray that I be held over the pit of Hell and shown how wrong I was."

Well, they all knelt down, as they do, and prayed for this. At the end, I was still there, laughing at them. I still am. Christians have a lot to learn, and I highly doubt any of them will get to Ascent to a Higher Level of Existence. The chains of their dogma will drag them down. Sad.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["Do I sense a tinge of belief of JC in your post Bogomil?"]

Not in JC, but in J, and that only implies that he was a wise guy, a maverick against OT tyranny and worthy of respect. That is...... the character described by the two-gods bible-relaters.

There may even have existed a real physical human being around whom all the hallabaloo is constructed.

Quote: ["If he does not exist, then there is no harm."]

Apart from a few million madmen, who DO believe he exists, and that it is their holy duty to interfere elitistically with mankind in various ways (the number is an estimate).

Quote: [" If he does exist, then I am praying to Jesus to save a lost soul. Once again, no harm done."]

Probably not, but you have just proven your self-proclaimed right to act on behalf of other people, as YOU do believe in it. You are probably operating from your own premises on this, and believe it has effect.

I believe that you do a lot of harm by opposing those that have a belief in Jesus.

I certainly do not cross the line of interjecting on behalf of others as you have done in these forums. I am however guilty of praying for others, something that I will not change.

reply to post by XplanetX


You wrote:

["I believe that you do a lot of harm by opposing those that have a belief in Jesus."]

While it's demonstrable, that some of those believing in certain kinds of the optional Jesus-versions HAVE done a lot of harm considerably worse than my verbal quarrelsomeness ever can do.

Quote: ["I certainly do not cross the line of interjecting on behalf of others as you have done in these forums."]

This is a blind alley, I will not enter.

Quote: ["I am however guilty of praying for others, something that I will not change."]

It just accentuates an attitude of: "It's for your own good", with or without peoples' consent. And which is a point that never must be ignored in a context of ideological missionaries.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

You wrote:

["I believe that you do a lot of harm by opposing those that have a belief in Jesus."]

While it's demonstrable, that some of those believing in certain kinds of the optional Jesus-versions HAVE done a lot of harm considerably worse than my verbal quarrelsomeness ever can do.

Quote: ["I certainly do not cross the line of interjecting on behalf of others as you have done in these forums."]

This is a blind alley, I will not enter.

Quote: ["I am however guilty of praying for others, something that I will not change."]

It just accentuates an attitude of: "It's for your own good", with or without peoples' consent. And which is a point that never must be ignored in a context of ideological missionaries.

That is the beauty about praying for someone, consent is not required. I am sincerely praying for your heart to soften Bogomil.

PS 10:4 In his pride the wicked does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God.

I make no apologies for any offence that this may cause.

Originally posted by autowrench
I agree with all of that quote, friend, and here is why. I once had 20 some Christians, filled with hate because I challenged them on this very thing. The leader told me; "they were going to pray that I be held over the pit of Hell and shown how wrong I was."

Well, they all knelt down, as they do, and prayed for this. At the end, I was still there, laughing at them. I still am. Christians have a lot to learn, and I highly doubt any of them will get to Ascent to a Higher Level of Existence. The chains of their dogma will drag them down. Sad.

Pics or it didn't happen heheh. I never thought that I'd use that line, but it did seem appropriate here.

I know there are some folk out there that would do something like that, but for some reason I don't believe you on this one autowrench.

reply to post by XplanetX


Just once more on my part, to make sure positions and attitudes are cut out in capital neon-letters.

Quote: ["That is the beauty about praying for someone, consent is not required."]

No, not in your self-proclaimed value-system.

Quote: ["I am sincerely praying for your heart to soften Bogomil."]

The Jesus-version I like the best, is a Jesus saying: "Mind your own business and stop pestering me with requests about how you would like other people to be".

Quote: ["PS 10:4 In his pride the wicked does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God."]

The book of TFSM 24:91758427: "It's wicked to follow self-proclaimed authority, because your thoughts will be what authority wants them to be".

Quote: ["I make no apologies for any offence that this may cause."]

None asked.

End of this direction.

reply to post by The GUT


Most venerable deserter of esteemed forefathers' and foremothers' faith, you wrote:

["I know there are some folk out there that would do something like that, but for some reason I don't believe you on this one autowrench."]

Ofcourse a majority of the christianities are 'civilized' these days, but a somewhat cynical, though pertinent question is: Given the chance, which kind of christians would like to run the show once more, and would some of the christianities fall in line again?

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by The GUT

 

Most venerable deserter of esteemed forefathers' and foremothers' faith, you wrote:

Beautiful my friend, I'm still laughing. Hard!

Of course a majority of the christianities are 'civilized' these days, but a somewhat cynical, though pertinent question is: Given the chance, which kind of christians would like to run the show once more, and would some of the christianities fall in line again?

Yes...sadly...but I'm beginning to suspect that those that would might have a surprise come judgement day. Anyone not trying to mould their life on the first century example is suspect to me.

Having said that, I'm not one of those that think I know what my "verdict" will be on that day either. I can't get around the book of James. And he seems to have set a pretty high bar for what real "religion" is. But I muddle along anyway.

And now a confession: I humbly pray for you too fine warrior. But not holier than thou. The same type of prayer I pray for me: To know the truth He would have me know, not what "I" think it is. It's a testament of my true affection for you and I hope it doesn't offend...but if it does I ain't stopping either.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by XplanetX

 

Just once more on my part, to make sure positions and attitudes are cut out in capital neon-letters.

Quote: ["That is the beauty about praying for someone, consent is not required."]

No, not in your self-proclaimed value-system.

Quote: ["I am sincerely praying for your heart to soften Bogomil."]

The Jesus-version I like the best, is a Jesus saying: "Mind your own business and stop pestering me with requests about how you would like other people to be".

Quote: ["PS 10:4 In his pride the wicked does not seek him;
in all his thoughts there is no room for God."]

The book of TFSM 24:91758427: "It's wicked to follow self-proclaimed authority, because your thoughts will be what authority wants them to be".

Quote: ["I make no apologies for any offence that this may cause."]

None asked.

End of this direction.

That is an interesting version of Jesus that you have there Bogomil, but not one that I subscribe to.


2PE 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.


“Men may spurn our appeals,
reject our message,
oppose our arguments,
despise our persons -
but they are helpless against our prayers.”

J. Sidlow Baxter

reply to post by XplanetX


you may wish to review this

Matthew 6

with attention to

Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

reply to post by racasan

you may wish to review this

That is a different type of prayers which was a sort of science of the Levites to devise blessings of God, as if God needs people to bless Him.

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by XplanetX

 

you may wish to review this

Matthew 6

with attention to

Matthew 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Out of context much?

reply to post by XplanetX


I think not, it looks to me like you are on a public forum trying to display your piety by telling people you are praying on for them

But let me ask you, would you be happy if some random dude on the internet was to tell you he was going to cast his brand of juju over you?

Or would you think it was silly and maybe just a little bit sordid?

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by XplanetX

 

I think not, it looks to me like you are on a public forum trying to display your piety by telling people you are praying on for them

But let me ask you, would you be happy if some random dude on the internet was to tell you he was going to cast his brand of juju over you?

Or would you think it was silly and maybe just a little bit sordid?

His juju would not work.

EPH 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.


I will now pray for you also Racasan, not out of piety, but out of love.

reply to post by XplanetX


ahhhg!!! it burns it burns!!1!!!!!

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by XplanetX

 

ahhhg!!! it burns it burns!!1!!!!!

Hmmmm.... wrong prayer.

reply to post by The GUT


Illustrious adherer of an anthropomorphicated Tao, you wrote:

["Yes...sadly...but I'm beginning to suspect that those that would might have a surprise come judgement day. Anyone not trying to mould their life on the first century example is suspect to me."]

Aaaah, my non-root-seeking friend, we all have dreams of tomorrow, where everything will be honky-dory. I'm more concerned about the meantime, because tomorrow never comes around to where it should be: Today.


Quote: ["I can't get around the book of James."]

By which you probably mean the epistle of James (no offence, I'm just being pedantic)? Whom Luther detested so heartely, that it is taken out of some protestant bibles (amongst them mine, so I had to use the satanic device internet to re-read it).

Dearie me, this is going to take time....but then, waiting for tomorrow, that shouldn't be a problem.

In a way I'm unbiased, as I until a few years ago was unaware of the extent of christian schisms. Digging through them, initially trying to clarify for myself what the various positions are and what basic components they share or disagree about is quite a job, especially because the subject mostly is rather boring for me and wrapped so heavily in faction-propaganda and double-talk, that it's like reading a victorian 'moral' novel.

But cutting it down there are the basics of: Faith, law, do-gooding, the direct experience and ofcourse the passive sheeple nominalism with spoon-feeding. Each with its own 'Jesus'.

Upgrading the perspective to bird's eye OUTSIDE the various constellations these components are arranged in, I honestly think, that christians in general have become entrenched in formalisms, where the elsewhere in life important angle of pragmatism is long time lost.

I believe you capable of seeing the consequences of such a loss, though you may not be willing to consider it more important than doctrines. Your choice, but at least the recent developments on this forum have begun to profile what's what (so I don't have to write a detailed book about it here), and it's a direction worth observing.

To enigmatic? But that's the way of us, who now carry your cultural heritage. We, the pink devils (we are not really white, thank you).

Quote: ["And now a confession: I humbly pray for you too fine warrior. But not holier than thou. The same type of prayer I pray for me: To know the truth He would have me know, not what "I" think it is. It's a testament of my true affection for you and I hope it doesn't offend...but if it does I ain't stopping either."]

As you have at least SOME of the 'components' I sympathize with, have them decently arranged and aren't invasive about it, this will not count against you karmically, and I will even go so far as to re-compensate your good intentions by, if I ever meet one of the cosmic administrators, putting in a good word for you. That would be in the vicinity of the buddhist heaven(s) I guess.