A lie told often enough becomes the truth!

stoneskull: Apparently you didn't read my post concerning the legitamacy of Freemasons being on NeonHelmet's list at all or you have dismissed my comments, because you have already decided that you want discuss Freemasons. Everything you are posting has been brought up one thousand and one times on ATS and you are just regurgitating the same old stuff. yawn...

cya, enjoy your self indulgence. I will not be part of it.

PS: You provide no documentation references which makes your rambling of little use to me.
.

[edit on 20-8-2004 by df1]

As I recall, you stated earlier, perhaps in another thread, that you have many more illustrations, enough to fill pages of threads. I have no doubt that this can be accomplished, but I just do not see the point.

Yeah, another thread, and in regard to someone mentioning the Masonic degree structure (I could probably fill 5 pages with Masonic symbol pictures). I don't really have any more pictures I would add to this thread at present, and have found myself fascinated by the history of Masonry all over again and will be researching for a while.

Alex, I put the bracketed (and the OTO) in as an afterthought, giving the impression the OTO was born that early. It does seem to have come from 18th and 19th century Occult Templarism though. (I'm reading about it now.. and yeah, I have the modern OTO Manifesto/Constitution not published on the web, which is mainly Edward Alexander Crowley worship, and I have just about every published work of Crowley as well). You keep amazing me, and I'm appreciating your posts a lot, man. I love being proved wrong, and I will check out the references you mentioned.

Heh. The study of 18th and 19th century Templarism could fill a lifetime. As I said in a paper (which is posted somewhere on this forum), it's fairly likely that the Medieval Templars were exactly what they seemed -- illiterate monk-soldiers of surprising devoutness, but no special esoteric signification.

BUT...

that does not deny the "existence" in the "collective unconscious" (if you want to call it that... zeitgeist, perhaps?) Of the mythological Templars, who, of course, were wizards with a special knowledge from the East and power over all of history. The problem with this, though, is that (to speak Jungianly (is that a word?) for a moment) the mythological entity becomes "inflated," and we see its intrusion into the "real world" as an entity. Now, it's a non-historical entity, yes... but that doesn't change its influence on those who believe it to be a real entity.

As I said in the paper, what I'd infinitely prefer is if, for example, Freemasons decided to stop with the idolisation of the Mythical Templars and started to mythologise our own order -- or better yet, if we could outgrow the mindset that has to see mythological entities as historical if their stories are to have any currency. See, the problem with a non-historical entity like the mythical Templars is that everyone has possession of it. So, if you want to alter the myth of the Templars to say they were actually alien-worshipping lizards, you can do so... this wouldn't be such a big deal if they were accepted as a myth (just like Disney's "Hercules" doesn't diminish the traditional renditions of that myth), but it is a big deal when people get into the mindset that the mythical Templars were real people -- then you're arguing about something real... and that means that people try to apply rules of argument and consequence that work on physical entities to mythical archetypes. No wonder people get into such big arguments.

Noise so far:

I have a big penis.
I have a big penis.
I have a big penis.
..........

See... any accurate and interesting points about Bilderberg, the world capital/power conspiracies you do make, you let down with basic.. Mega-flawed bullsh*t... I mean... The bread n butter stuff...

and then you try to downplay these flaws by going 'ohh you think I am a fruit loop right???� I don�t think you're a fruit loop.. just too overtly simplistic.

Just to continue the little (but important) knit pick...
Ethnic Russians come from European Russia. Khazars from the steppes. One conquered the other... Than visa versa...

If you want to find credible theories for the harder to prove stuff (something I totally applaud) get the basic bullsh*t right... and leave out the ethnic slurring...

now I leave this thread for ever...

phew!

Now I have a plea for DF1 I did respect your first post but now you are trying to dictate what we should use this thread for please don�t do that.
LTD602 I have found out why I called you a mason it was because of the thread you started, about joining the masons; it must then have been in my subconscious mind, there for the claim that you were a mason.


StoneSkull:
I think we should just drop the Arthur tale as it really has nothing to do in here so agree with you there, I also like the remark about me being anti solar system that made me laugh big time.
I also agree on the ear/ mouth part, I don�t understand why people who don�t like what�s on this thread use their energy in saying it, you don�t find me on pro Masonic threads shouting how much I oppose them.
Sure post away, I thought about posting the picture myself but I thought it would be stealing from one of your earlier posts.

(A) I have some names of people who have attended the Bilderberg meetings, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger and of course not to forget our famous Rothschild�s I also think that Jim Tucker does a fantastic work in exposing the Bilderberg.
(B) Sure lets do a (B) [i.] and a (B) [ii.].
(B)[ii.] What happened in 1885? Well 3 of them died, they made the best wine that year or was it the first? But a lot of other things happened in 1885 like King Leopold creates he�s own personal state called Congo, the final act of the Berlin conference regulates trade and colonization of Africa, a rebellion in Canada, the statue of liberty arrives in New York, the Canadian Louis Riel is executed for treason, now I am not saying any of this has anything to do with the death of 3 Rothschild brothers just that they were events that happened in 1885.
(D) I don�t know about the worlds royal family, but one thing is for sure it is not what it seems, I still find it unbelievable that there are no more noise about this so-called crown/city, if something similar would happen in my country we would yell out as to why our Queen should ask anybody for permission to enter her own land, but our Kings and Queens are just a big a part of suppressing the population though I doubt they have any influence.
(E) Nice picture I like it, here is something I found on the net.

Documentary proof as to the existence of the "Committee of 300" is not forthcoming, and it may be no more than a convenient phrase to describe certain key players. Socialist politician and financial adviser to the Rothschild�s, Walter Rathenau, writing in the Wiener Press (24 December, 1921) said, "Only 300 men, each of whom knows all others govern the fate of Europe. They select their successors from their own entourage. These men have the means in their hands of putting an end to the form of State which they find unreasonable." Exactly six months after publication, Rathenau was assassinated.

Quote taken from: home.tiscali.de...

(F) Hmmm though I haven�t started on writing on this chapter yet, you shouldn�t think I concede with the masons it is just that for the time being I am trying to keep the noise down in here.
(G) Yes actually they have doctored these pictures both ways to hide true items or create fake ones like the face of mars which to my knowledge were made by NASA them selves to get more funding, but this is not a claim only a thought.

I also say lets ignore the naysayer�s for now and focus on the task at hand.

Quick remark to the pyramids well I have for once always thought they were older than they say and what�s up with the Egyptian tourist police or what they call it and how about the underground rooms the Japanese scientist found under the sphinx and the pyramid?

Now this is a long post and more will come, now some more questions!

DF1 so you doubt me well I think that is a very big progress for you, I take it as a complement, thank you.
Now I don�t want to discuss the wardens with you I have only put them in this thread because I feel they have a big part in this, I cant prove anything to you about them it is only what my higher self are saying to me, I happen to trust my 4th chakra and I listen to it.
About the Masons well good for you I really already knew were you stand on this I am not stupid you have said this about 20 times in the past few days.
And for the record it is the illuminated free masons we are talking about, not normal free masons, now you said.

The Wardens, as you call them, are described by you as being from a completely different plain of existence from mortal man. Presuming that the Wardens exist at all, me and you live in the physical world and are unable to even fathom the stuff of spirits and legends that rule their plain of existence. While perhaps worthy of examination by themselves, I do not believe the Wardens belong as part of the organizations you have itemized as major players in the NWO.

How do you know what I can fathom I think that word means something like understand / grasp right?
You don�t know what I know, especially when talking the 4th, 5th 6th and 7th density, so you accusation really just falls to the ground; I know you don�t know anything about this because then you wouldn�t be saying what you just said.
The wardens aren�t key players on this earth as I don�t think they can manifest themselves here in the 3rd, but they are more like routers who control what and how much information that passes through the 4th, but still I am not sure what there role is, I just feel the play a part.
I think the reason you don�t want me to talk about the masons are obvious now I can understand about the wardens as it clearly weakens my position, but I cant express this enough I FEEL THEY BELONG HERE.
Now I have to say this again stop dictating what is put in this thread if anybody have something to say on that it is me or the moderators.
DF1 you want documentation not all the evidence can be found on the internet you are not acting very patiently in my eyes.

Now this is only comments on posts made in here I will shortly bring my own post on facts and evidence I have found on the internet, hopefully it will make this whole subject clearer and not more blurry.


Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

[edit on 20-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Well, Bilbo, facts would be a welcome relief in this thread... so far its nothing but conjecture based on an admitted LACK of evidence.

Now I have a plea for DF1 I did respect your first post but now you are trying to dictate what we should use this thread for please don�t do that.

I have no power to control anything you wish to discuss. I merely made the reasoned arguement that the Freemasons and Wardens are so dissimilar from your other dots that they do not merit discussion in the same breath or in this case the same thread. My point was made. Have it your way, however it will be without my further partcipation or comment.
.

It seems to me that with the illustrations you provided, that have expanded NeonHelmet's investigation to include every grain of sand on the planet. In the ultimate sense everything is related in some manner, but that does mean everything is part of the NWO conspiracy.

Do you think that connecting the dots is meaningful when you provide so many dots that the dots touch without drawing any connecting lines?

It seems to me that the challenge should be to provide facts connecting the handful of dots in NeonHelmet's first group of dots before you go adding more dots. The lines on your charts do not establish a connection between NeonHelmet's dots or even between your new dots with facts, without facts they are just arbitrary graphic lines. Perhaps others will be more satisfied with your pictures of new dots, but I for one am not satisfied. If some reasonable limits are not put on this bucket of dots, I will quickly lose interest in this thread and leave it to those that prefer counting dots rather than connecting dots.

StoneSkull: Apparently you didn't read my post concerning the legitimacy of Freemasons being on NeonHelmet's list at all or you have dismissed my comments, because you have already decided that you want discuss Freemasons. Everything you are posting has been brought up one thousand and one times on ATS and you are just regurgitating the same old stuff. Yawn...

DF1 it was those remarks that made me feel like you were dictating what should be put in this thread, however I do like your criticism, and it helps me a lot to sort out some of the disinformation I would like you to stay on this thread just don't dictate what we should put on this page perhaps I was wrong from the start and you didn�t do it, I just felt you did it.

Have it your way, however it will be without my further participation or comment.

Well I for once will be saddened by this but it is your choice I will however like to say thank you for adding constructive criticism to this thread and hope you will keep on doing so, off course this is not good bye as we will bump in to each other on other occasions but I beg you to reconsider.

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

[edit on 20-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Wow, as I go through reading all these posts about various secret societies all I can think is that I would love to see some agendas. Now, I realize if secret societies made their agendas readily available to the public then they wouldn't be secret, but I wonder how we can criticize things we don't understand except to critique the fact that we don't have enough info. I have often wondered if these so-called secret societies truly exist, did it start out as being nothing more than bureaucrats and politicians getting together over dinner to figure out how they can right the wrongs of the world in ways that are not permitted due to red-tape procedures. Granted, that defies the theory of democracy on one hand, but then there are so many uneducated folks fighting the educated that it can be hard to fight a losing battle. Another underlying question in my mind is "Are people truly evil and trying to destroy the world through secret societies," which is what I tend to gather from rampant paranoid discussions. I'm sure there is always...rephrase...I know that money is almost always involved in political ventures...hmmm...I just get lost in contemplation. I give.

I started doing a little more research into the Bilderberg Society, and here is what I found in terms of criticisms:

No one knows what they are doing
No one knows who they (all) are
Because no one knows who they are and what they are doing, we should be suspicious of them...

Now, come on folks. A lack of evidence is not evidence of anything OTHER THAN a lack of evidence.

Doesn't it seem silly for adults to be getting all worked up over a lack of information?

Does anyone seriously think they are entitled to the minutes of every meeting by everyone everywhere? By what right?

Help me here. My position seems overly rational, and I just don't get all the angst and hand wringing going on...

Other than the hand wringing and angst keeping folks engaging in it out of trouble...

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
DF1 it was those remarks that made me feel like you were dictating what should be put in this thread, however I do like your criticism, and it helps me a lot to sort out some of the disinformation I would like you to stay on this thread

Phew! Thank goodness you got permission, DF1!

just don't dictate what we should put on this page perhaps I was wrong from the start and you didn�t do it, I just felt you did it.

That's right, DF1. Freedom of speech is for people like NeonHelmet, not people like you! If you dare try to influence what should or shouldn't be on a thread, you should be BANNED! (Heavy sarcasm -- can you tell?)

Is that humor AK, I don�t find it funny don�t walk all over me, he haves freedom of speech I don�t go into your threads and start talking about what you should and shouldn�t write he don�t need my permission to do anything, stop being such a spoiled little brat AK.
On the other side I was expressing emotions and input I got from DF1 how come you have to be like a gang I say something to DF1 I get replies from all others I smell you and you don�t smell good.
I thought we were starting to behave properly towards each other, but I thought wrong I guess.
Well now that this sour burp has cleared my throat I will continue on my writings.

Bilbo

[edit on 20-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
AK HAS LONG TEETH AND UGLY HAIR!

No. At one point I had long hair and ugly teeth, but I got braces and a haircut (I also had four teeth removed -- funny operation... doesn't hurt at all, but I could only eat soup, and the freezing meant that eating was hard. Still, my teeth are now straight and comfortable).

I thought we were starting to behave properly towards each other, but I thought wrong I guess.

What, acting properly in the sense of saying that someone has "long teeth and ugly hair?" Or perhaps properly in the sense of accusing someone having horns and a tail, and murdering virgins? Or in the sense of accusing my entire order of being Satanists (or being "controlled" by Satanists) without any evidence whatever? Or are you behaving properly in the sense that you complain of being censored every time someone expresses their disagreement with what you say?

What particular brand of "behaving properly" a la NeonHelmet should I be following?

Well now that this sour burp has cleared my throat I will continue on my writings.

It's good to know that this forum is your private "sour burp" receptacle.

Alex you said

Of the mythological Templars, who, of course, were wizards with a special knowledge from the East

in reference to the KT, do you think that given the context of the time
period, that there might be some basis in fact to these statements? my point being that during that time period most people with any knowledge of healing,
herbs, or other knowledge not sanctioned by the church were considered, especially by the church , as witches etc..

Originally posted by stalkingwolf
Alex you said

Of the mythological Templars, who, of course, were wizards with a special knowledge from the East

in reference to the KT, do you think that given the context of the time
period, that there might be some basis in fact to these statements? my point being that during that time period most people with any knowledge of healing,
herbs, or other knowledge not sanctioned by the church were considered, especially by the church , as witches etc..

This is a complicated issue. I would never suggest that there were not people in those years who had possession of what might now be called "occult secrets." However, I very much doubt that the Templars were such people. Well-researched history on the subject (such as Piers Paul reid's "The Templars") seems to contradict the idea... and believe you me, if you read the Templars, you'll come to realise how meticulous Reid was with his analysis. One thing that appears to be known for sure is that the vast majority of Templars were illiterate. This does not preclude the supposition that the Templars knew something special, but it's indicative. We should also remember that the idea of the Templars being special mystics is directly traceable back to the Templarism of the 18th century, and that Templarism was a product of the Enlightenment.

What I think happened is that a mythological "blank" was needed on which the occult "flip side" of the Enlightenment could be grafted. The Templars won out.

Macrocosm, microcosm.

As above, so below.

The Sun, The Mind.

This is what links most gnostic schools and major religions, as well as humanity itself.

The Sun is the real messiah, the life-giver, the basis of Horus, Mithra, Krishna and Jesus, among many other religious figureheads. Astrology is the original religion, and the Earth's wobble, its Ages and Great Year are responsible for the story of Adam and Eve (Age of Gemini) Horus/Krishna (Age of Taurus) Moses/Mithra/Nike (Age of Aries) Jesus (Age of Pisces) and we are close to the beginning of the Age of Aquarius. (We enter a new Age every 2150 years, and 12 Ages - 25,800 years - is one Great Year).

The magic mushroom, more specifically the Amanita Muscaria mushroom, is not only the basis for the burning bush, Santa Claus, Christmas stockings, Easter eggs and circumcision, but is the Holy Grail itself.

This is the truth, and everyone should watch this supreme presentation of the truth (it's free), showing just how obvious everything is, that the truth will set you free, and the War on Drugs is really a Pharmacratic Inquisition

Been eating a little of that magic mushroom before you posted tonight?

So, I find this vastly entertaining, do tell us about your sources for this "astrology" being the "first" religion and the Sun being the prototype (??) for Jesus.

I have a PhD in Religious Philosophy, and I never heard THIS theory in any of my classes, so, please, do tell...

I've just provided a link to the Pharmacratic Inquisition website, which has a free download of a taped presentation which explains it better than anything else I have.

If you watch the presentation, and then you are still in doubt, I will provide more evidence.

HI!

I have been AFK for awhile and haven�t been able to update or answer in this thread for that I am sorry.
I will come with a full update shortly just have to get my kid and get a shower, if any of you wonder where you favorite NH or BBB has been, then don�t despair I am BACK.
Special greetings to AK and Theron Dunn I have missed you, and I know in your hearts that you love me to.


Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone


�USA Today has come out with a new survey: apparently three out of four people make up 75 percent of the population.�

NH:

Love and kisses...

wouldn't want you to think I didn't care...

Quick question what happens when you take a normal pentagram (one point up two points down) and rotate it 33*?

Bilbo