A lie told often enough becomes the truth!

I found this picture i find it very interesting perhaps the masons on this site will help authenticate it!

www.members.tripod.com/therev67/mstructure.jpg

I have heard some masons claim that the red cross and knights of malta and so on had nothing to do with real masons this would seem to prove them wrong.
Some one also told me that their were only 3 degrees in masonry not 33.
Also i might as well put this picture in here to.




Bilbo

Edit: had problem with the picture so you will have to manually click the link.
Edit: argh i curse tripod still having problems with the picture but enter the url manually and it should work



[edit on 28-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Some one also told me that their were only 3 degrees in masonry not 33.

that is correct. only 3. the others are appendant degrees. seperate groups.

you can be a MM and not be affiliated with York or Scottish Rite, but cant belong to either one unless you are a MM.

But you can understand that outsiders see it as 33 degrees and the number 33 has a meaning in itself it�s the master number of all numbers, in a spiritual way anyways.
And when you write it like this in your own book:

1st Entered apprentice
2nd Fellow craft
3rd master mason
4th Secret master
5th Perfect master
6th Confidential secretary
7th Prevost and judge (provost?)
8th Intendent of building
9th Elu of nine
10th Elu of fifteen
11th Elu of twelve
12th Master architect
13th Royal arch of Solomon
14th Perfect Elu
15th Knight of sword
16th Prince of Jerusalem
17th Knight of east and west
18th Knight rose croix
19th Pontiff
20th Master, symbolic lodge
21st Noachite or Prussian knight
22nd Knight of royal axe
23rd Chief of tabernacle
24th Prince of tabernacle
25th Knight of brazen serpent
26th Prince of mercy
27th Knight Commander of temple
28th Knight of the sun, adept
29th Grand Scottish knight of Saint Andrew
30th Knight kodosh
31st Inspector inquisitor
32nd Knight Commander Court of honor, sublime prince of royal secret
33rd inspector general

I know you like master numbers they have a special meaning to you, I also see the knights of Malta, Knights templar and red cross as chapters of masonry not something different as some of you would like us to believe.
So why your 11th degree is called 12 seems strange to me, but I will dig deeper and see what I find.
I also like the way you refer to the morning lord what�s up with that? And why you have animosity for the north, isn�t that were GOD is?

Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone

I also found this:



And this:



And this:




Now some of the illustrations say that masons condone in �drug distribution�, "Paedophilia" and �organized crime�, I in no way condors these statements or view them as my own, as I haven�t seen any direct proof of that.


Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone


[edit on 31-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Neon:

What is "Prison Warder Consciousness" ?

Neon:

What is "Prison Warder Consciousness" ?

Now I know you all would like me to go there, I will first say there is no fact�s or evidence to back up my claim, but for good sport I will try to explain in my best text book English.

1st I will start with some quotes of my own.

Chapter G: Are the watchers watching you

Not much is known about these prison wardens as I like to call them in fact they are not even on this earth at least not in physical form, they are the energies that have the job of keeping us in place so we wont know the truth or be ridiculed by every one else so we wont dare speaking our minds.
Their home is the 4th density; there is a higher frequency there so it can�t be compared to our slow moving 3rd density.
These watchers are the police of the illuminati they hold us in place so we can be exploited again and again.
I would like some feedback on the subject of these so called watchers!

Now there are in fact no facts or proof about the wardens but the knowledge I have of them is purely from my higher self so no need to ask for proof on this subject as I can�t provide any.

Now I believe the prison warders to be of a different plane of existence, this would mean another dimension, density or universe or what you like to call it, I came to this theory through the superstring theory, multiple universes or multiverse you could say that they are a higher frequency (i.e. Motions per second) than our normal atoms, neutrons, electrons, protons and quarks, in this universe/density.
This is also why they can�t manifest them selves in our three dimensional world, they would simply evaporate or self ignite or something like that.
Now the job these wardens have is to block all incoming and outgoing messages we send to our higher selves (i.e. soul) located in the 6th density (the 7th density is what most people call god).
The reason they do that is to hold us down, to keep us from learning the truth now not all people are blocked this way as all of us can simply go around the wardens but if you aren�t aware of them, you wouldn�t know that you should fight them.
If all humans truly knew they were free, this world wouldn�t be so dark, the power the so-called Illuminati has is only an illusion, its not real we can all simply choose not to do their work, if we are aware of it off course.
So the wardens have a single job, to keep us from communicating with our soul, so that we may be used in this 3rd density to do the bidding of some evil and corrupt energies located in the 4th density also called Lucifer, Satan, the morning lord and Baphomet, you see the 4th density is what we call emotions, love, fear, hate, shame, happiness, guilt they all go there and over time they have become self aware feeding on our emotions, they have become intelligent they want more they want us, they cant be here physically but they can twist us to the extend that we become them.
Now this was a poor attempt by me to explain something I cant, I know this has worsn't my position but I really don�t care I cant explain an emotion a feeling, I have tried and reading this through I can see I have failed.


Baron Bilbo Baggins
Bilbo's Empire of the Neutral Zone


�I turn to you, I poke you in the arm with my finger and I ask, "Is this your body?" You answer, "Yes." I then ask, "Well ... if that's your body, WHAT are you?" The answer of course is something not of the physical, a spiritual being."

[edit on 28-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

A 5-pointed star within a circle turned 33� means you only have 3� to go.

(If you hold Alt + 0176 on the numpad you get degrees� - list here - www.fingertipsoft.com... - don't forget the zero)

Originally posted by stoneskull
A 5-pointed star within a circle turned 33� means you only have 3� to go.

3� to go to what? The distance between one point of an "ideal" five-pointed star and the other is 72�, not 36�.

And is there a significance to what you have said?

Finally. This thread has gotten interesting. Anyone care to comment on the images provided by NeonHelmet ?

The distance between one point of an "ideal" five-pointed star and the other is 72�, not 36�.

Turning a pentagram 72� shows the same picture.
The half-way point between the two is 36�.

Edit: Did you get up on the wrong side of bed or something AK? You think people are stupid? You aren't superior to the other people here.

[edit on 31/8/04 by stoneskull]

Originally posted by LTD602
Finally. This thread has gotten interesting. Anyone care to comment on the images provided by NeonHelmet ?

Yes. They're nonsense. That's all the comment they require.

Just try turning a normal (1 point up 2 point�s down) 5 pointed star 33�, clockwise and counter clockwise and see what you get.
Also 33 in it self is a master number like 11,22,44,55,111,222, and so on, but in certain beliefs including my own 33 has a special meaning, actually it has a very special meaning any comments on this?
Now these are things I found to be interesting I am not stating anything with this, perhaps I am but so far I am just curios!

Bilbo

ps:perhaps i did it wrong but for me it worked.

Yes. They're nonsense. That's all the comment they require.

Thank you AK does that include me? Or are you just referring to the graphs I pulled out?
Also I found this link, it spooks me a bit any of you masons know this?

tgaotu.uneven.us...

Bilbo

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Just try turning a normal (1 point up 2 point�s down) 5 pointed star 33�, clockwise and counter clockwise and see what you get.

You get two different images, based on whether you want to rotate it clockwise or anti-clockwise. The number you are looking for, so that you can generate a so-called "inverted" star, is 36�.

Also 33 in it self is a master number like 11,22,44,55,111,222, and so on, but in certain beliefs including my own 33 has a special meaning, actually it has a very special meaning any comments on this?

Any comment on the fact that in your personal beliefs the number 33 has some special significance? No. The number 347, 009 has special significance in my beliefs... so what?

Now these are things I found to be interesting I am not stating anything with this, perhaps I am but so far I am just curios!

That's right, you aren't stating anything... why don't you try actually stating something?

����*******36*******
******3435******

*****313233*****
****27282930****
***2223242526***
**161718192021**
*09101112131415*
0102030405060708

True you get two different images, and I made a mistake that�s why I wanted confirmation, in my beliefs 33 is THE master number, it states all knowing, wisdom and Odin.*
Now AK take it easy I am only asking questions, you get all jumpy did I hit a nerve or is it just my ignorance that annoy you , how about the link what do you think of that, mason made or anti mason?

Bilbo


ps: whats special about you number or is it a SECRET?
pps: i wanted comments on the master numbers not why it is special in my beliefs
ppps: nice pyramid stoneskull perhaps there are 3 hidden degrees in masonry?

[edit on 31-8-2004 by NeonHelmet]

Originally posted by NeonHelmet

Yes. They're nonsense. That's all the comment they require.

Thank you AK does that include me? Or are you just referring to the graphs I pulled out?

Just the graphs.

Also I found this link, it spooks me a bit any of you masons know this?

tgaotu.uneven.us...

Bilbo

This link is merely an image, with the title TGAOTU. There's not even any reason to suspect it is Masonic, aside from the title. I'm sorry that it spooks you, but there's no significance -- it's just an image.

Just an image but it must have been put there for a reason!
The Great Architect Of The Universe I think it stands for and isn�t that a Masonic saying for God? And it doesn�t SPOOK me I just find it weird to make and pay for a homepage with just this image, I am having some "friends" check it out I believe perhaps there is a backdoor in, but this is just speculation.

Bilbo

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
True you get two different images, and I made a mistake that�s why I wanted confirmation, in my beliefs 33 is THE master number, it states all knowing, wisdom and Odin.*

Why? Is there any reason? Have you just decided that this number signifies?

Now AK take it easy I am only asking questions, you get all jumpy did I hit a nerve or is it just my ignorance that annoy you

A little bit. What annoys me more is when you post those crusty old "graphs" that imply that Freemasonry and Freemasons are involved in not only generic evil, but also Paedophilia. Now, I'm not saying that you are implying this, but you put up the graphs -- you had a choice. You didn't HAVE to post those graphs. You seem at least moderately intelligent, so you must realise how nonsensical those graphs are, and how there is not one iota of proof that they are accurate (because, in fact, they are not). That annoys me. if I felt you were making statements like that about Masonry -- just pulling the idea that Masons are evil out of the air, unsubstantiated, simply because you want a "conspiracy" to entertain you, then I would have set you on "ignore," plain and simple. I've already explained elsewhere how I feel about and deal with slander.

, how about the link what do you think of that, mason made or anti mason?

Neither. Not everything in the world falls into "Mason-made" or "Anti-Masonic" categories. This is just a picture -- it doesn't mean anything on its own, and the picture doesn't even seem to imply anything (other than the idea that Christ is The Great Architect of the Universe).

ps: whats special about you number or is it a SECRET?

That number was my student number when I went to university to obtain my Bachelour of Science.

pps: i wanted comments on the master numbers not why it is special in my beliefs

There are no comments to be added. Your question is insufficiently specific. To say, "what is the significance of the number 58?" doesn't lend itself to useful answers. You must state what kind of information you want. The number 58 is used too often to be very useful out of context (much like the five-pointed star is used too often to have any meaning out of context).

ppps: nice pyramid stoneskull perhaps there are 3 hidden degrees in masonry?

There are THREE degrees in Freemasonry. The Scottish Rite an ASSOCIATED but SEPARATE organisation confers an additional 29 degrees, but there are MANY other organisations that confer degrees, such as the York Rite. The idea that there are "33 degrees" in Freemasonry is TOTALLY INCORRECT. This is something like the 50th time I have said this.

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Just an image but it must have been put there for a reason!
The Great Architect Of The Universe I think it stands for and isn�t that a Masonic saying for God?

Yes, but we have no copyright on it. Anyone can use it. Using it does not make you Masonic or even remotely connected to anything Masonic.

And it doesn�t SPOOK me

Originally posted by NeonHelmet
Also I found this link, it spooks me a bit any of you masons know this?

tgaotu.uneven.us...

Bilbo

(emphasis mine)

I just find it weird to make and pay for a homepage with just this image, I am having some "friends" check it out I believe perhaps there is a backdoor in, but this is just speculation.

If you look at the source of the webpage, you will see that it is simply an image. There is no further code. There is no "backdoor" because there is nothing more to that web-page. There may be associated directories within the "web-page" storage, but that page has nothing more.