Do you have a relationship with the creator of the universe?

Originally posted by AQuestion
Show me where it says that in the bible, that Moses was not saved. Tell me where in the bible it says that and what of Enoch, was he not raptured? Perhaps as you mention, we can be saved after we die and be brought out, where was Moses brought out from, were you a Catholic that believed in pergatory or do you believe Moses and Enoch went to help, doesn't sound very rapturous for Enoch does it. Perhaps you were told the wrong answers.

First, I don't even know that Moses was real. Next, I can't show that Moses was not saved, because it doesn't say so. Show me where it does. The belief, as far as I remember, is that no one could get into heaven until Jesus died. When he died, the bible says he went to hell for three days and preached to the spirits there and brought them out. Jesus talks about Abraham's bosom, which yes, was some kind of purgatory where people went when they died. No, I wasn't Catholic, more like Full Gospel believer.

The confusing issue is hell. The bible speaks of hell, and also speaks of a lake of fire, which are two different things. The bible says that hell and death will be thrown into the lake of fire, whatever that means. So, if hell is a lake of fire, how can you throw a lake of fire into a lake of fire? That doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by fooks


so you really didn't help?

with real help? not just platitudes? aspirin, get to a doc?

not saying you should be a one man intervention but dam..

Right. No medicine. Just encouraged them through their cold turkey phase. Took long walks with them for exercise. Tagged along with them when they went to see family so that they didn't do anything they shouldn't, etc.

addicts need more than that. believe me.

you weren't given the tools to deal with those things.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

I enjoy answering challenging questions, it does not scare nor upset me, I just don't like deceit. I am particularly upset with people claiming to be Christians exercising the tools of the Devil, that would be deceit. You asked me, "When did I say that I did anything for a reward?", you said you did it for God, that is when. We must do all things to be in service, not to please God, when we do things merely to please God, we don't please him. When we do things because we agree with God, because we have the heart of Jesus, because we love our neighbor as ourselves then the OUTCOME is that we do please him. Faith leads to improved actions, improved actions do not necessarily lead to improved faith.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Is your child as a baby able to communicate with you clearly or understand you when you talk to him or her? No but that does not mean you are not the father or creator. In due time the baby will learn to communicate with his or her father. And so will we learn to communicate with our father. We are as babies right now not able to communicate with the creator as of yet.

A baby can still hear, see, smell, touch, taste its parents even if it can't understand them.

I once thought as you do hydroman, except that I kept on waiting and never gave up, that God might someday let me really know he was there...

I actually have always known he is really there, but have had times of doubt...

Then there was a time where I was in deep emotional trauma, and I asked out loud if God was there, two times, the second time was to make sure he heard me if he was there, hehe....

And suddenly I felt I was not alone, but it didn't stop there, I was pulled away in the spirit to some other place, and I saw gracefull winding paths with perfect grass lawns and sunshine.. And he was walking with me there.. I wasn't dreaming though...

He told me that it made him happy that I always loved him so much, and he offered me a place in his kingdom... I of course accepted and thanked him...

But even after this has happened, It is still easy to get pulled into doubting again... But doubts no longer have a firm grip on me, and won't ever again..

The whole time I was thinking why God would have mercy on me of all people, but I think most people feel the same way, since we all know we are just simple and small imperfect humans..

There are a few scriptures that mention those who wait on the Lord will be answered eventually..

A very humble mind and heart also helps a lot...

Sorry to hear that you have lost your faith so easily.. There is no reason you couldn't get it back if you really wanted to... it sounds like maybe you don't want to... It would be worth it though, if you did..

Cheers

reply to post by randyvs


Dear randyvs,

I loved how you used God and farts in the same post. I agree, God loves fart jokes, in my opinion, or we wouldn't fart. God loves fart jokes more than women do, there is a price to pay. LOL.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by hawkiye
Is your child as a baby able to communicate with you clearly or understand you when you talk to him or her? No but that does not mean you are not the father or creator. In due time the baby will learn to communicate with his or her father. And so will we learn to communicate with our father. We are as babies right now not able to communicate with the creator as of yet.

A baby can still hear, see, smell, touch, taste its parents even if it can't understand them.

And how does that baby know who you are despite those senses? What about the atoms in your body do they hear see smell touch and taste you thier parent also?

These are both examples of one life having a relationship with a higher life and not knowing it right away.

Originally posted by randyvs
After all, can you tell me the difference, between an actual Creator creating everything, that is existence. And the universe just farted it self together?

I am not a cosmologist, so I can't help you out there. If a creator created it though, why did he create galaxies where they would collide into each other? Why does he create stars that explode? Why is the universe chaotic? We could be hit by an asteroid any day. As a matter of fact, we have been hit by things as is evidenced on the surface of the earth.

Originally posted by randyvs
Throw consciousness in when ever you like.

What is consciousness? Do you think that because you can't explain how it got here that it must mean a god did it? Do you know how lightning works? If not, do you say "Hmmm, god must have done that"?

Originally posted by Hydroman

The confusing issue is hell.

There are assumptions I have to make in regards to my near death experience. My view of hell is partially what I experienced on my ascent. The darkness was so void of life,love and emotion. It was a physical darkness that had weight.

Oh my God, and then the light, it's more than can be expressed in words.

I see hell as that dark place.....

Originally posted by hawkiye


And how does that baby know who you are despite those senses? What about the atoms in your body do they hear see smell touch and taste you thier parent also?

These are both examples of one life having a relationship with a higher life and not knowing it right away.

I never said that it knows who the parents are, but it has a place to start. As the baby grows and learns, and its brain develops, it won't be asking, "Did my parents just talk to me, or was that my own thoughts?" It will hear the parent, see the parent's lips moving, and recognize them as their parent.

reply to post by Hydroman


"First, I don't even know that Moses was real. Next, I can't show that Moses was not saved, because it doesn't say so. Show me where it does. The belief, as far as I remember, is that no one could get into heaven until Jesus died. When he died, the bible says he went to hell for three days and preached to the spirits there and brought them out. Jesus talks about Abraham's bosom, which yes, was some kind of purgatory where people went when they died. No, I wasn't Catholic, more like Full Gospel believer.

The confusing issue is hell. The bible speaks of hell, and also speaks of a lake of fire, which are two different things. The bible says that hell and death will be thrown into the lake of fire, whatever that means. So, if hell is a lake of fire, how can you throw a lake of fire into a lake of fire? That doesn't make sense."

Dear Hydroman,

You say "The belief" huh, what belief, it is not mine and I am the one talking to you so don't try and saddle me with "the belief" that you don't even believe. How about you try talking to me and not asking me to respond to the people you don't believe, I will treat you the same, I don't saddle you with the belief of complete haters of all believers. In regards to your first paragraph quoted above, I ask you again do you believe in purgatory or that Moses and Enoch went to hell until Jesus arrived. I believe they went to heaven, I left the Catholic church and do not believe in pergatory. Am I having a discussion with an ex-Catholic or an ex-presbatirian?

Your second paragraph speaks of hell and the pit of fire. Those are analogies. If you read the description it is of separation from God. Enoch was not separated from God, he was brought to God, he spent no time in separation that is why he was raptured. What is the unforgivable sin, it is a refusal to interact with God, to know him at all, we have free will and can choose to not know him. Someone in an earlier post said that on a beach they heard Gods voice, that they felt him move away and that he told them that he was always there; but, they had moved away from him. I don't know God to force himself on anyone, that would be un-Godly, or would that be the kind of God you hoped existed, one that used force beyond our free will"?

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by hawkiye


And how does that baby know who you are despite those senses? What about the atoms in your body do they hear see smell touch and taste you thier parent also?

These are both examples of one life having a relationship with a higher life and not knowing it right away.

I never said that it knows who the parents are, but it has a place to start. As the baby grows and learns, and its brain develops, it won't be asking, "Did my parents just talk to me, or was that my own thoughts?" It will hear the parent, see the parent's lips moving, and recognize them as their parent.

Yes but before the baby reaches that point it has no idea who is talking to it etc. The point is that it is possible to have a relationship with a higher being and be unaware of it until you mature and can communicate and understand it. And in the beginning with a baby communication is vague and often ignored. So it is with us. While it may not be a perfect correspondence I think you get the point.

Is thier some reason you have ignored the atom analogy? Why is is it you cannot communicate to the atoms in your liver or stomach etc? Are you not the god of your body? Why do you not communicate to your children the atoms that comprise your body? Why did you create your arm to break or your tooth to rot etc? Or is it perhaps they are fulfilling the measure of thier creation and they need no communication from you until they are mature enough to receive it and understand it and you them? Or perhaps graduate from that realm to a higher realm? Food for thought...

reply to post by Hydroman

What is consciousness? Do you think that because you can't explain how it got here that it must mean a god did it? Do you know how lightning works? If not, do you say "Hmmm, god must have done that"?

Wheather I know the mechanics that God used to create my body. Or if I know how the magicians tricks work.
There is still a God and a Magician. Knowing the mechanics of the design dosn't negate the designer for crip sakes.

And you say the universe is chaotic? How many metorites landed on your house last year? Are you just so bad that meteorites steer clear of you?
How has all this chaos imposed upon your day to day meanderings?

Originally posted by AQuestion

. How about you try talking to me and not asking me to respond to the people you don't believe, I will treat you the same, I don't saddle you with the belief of complete haters of all believers.

I apologize. I meant that it was the belief of many christians that I've spoken with, not that those were your beliefs. As far was what supposedly happened to Enoch, I have no clue. Can you show me where Moses was saved?

Originally posted by AQuestion
I don't know God to force himself on anyone, that would be un-Godly, or would that be the kind of God you hoped existed, one that used force beyond our free will"?

You mean like Jonah, who was asked to go to Ninevah, but when he used his free will and said "no" to god, he was eventually swallowed by a giant fish, for example?

Or do you mean like Pharaoh, and how god hardened his heart so that he wouldn't let the people go?

reply to post by hawkiye


Dear hawkiye,

Eloquent words and appreciated.

Originally posted by hawkiye



Is thier some reason you have ignored the atom analogy? Why is is it you cannot communicate to the atoms in your liver or stomach etc? Are you not the god of your body? Why do you not communicate to your children the atoms that comprise your body? Why did you create your arm to break or your tooth to rot etc? Or is it perhaps they are fulfilling the measure of thier creation and they need no communication from you until they are mature enough to receive it and understand it and you them? Or perhaps graduate from that realm to a higher realm? Food for thought...

Yes there is a reason why I ignored the atom analogy. It is because I have no idea what you're talking about. Sounds like pseudoscience to me.

Moses is said to have spoken with the lord God Almighty. Since the ark of the covenant is taken very seriously, I would probably guess that he does talk back, exists, and is probably quite a danger to some.

Originally posted by KennyDurazo
Moses is said to have spoken with the lord God Almighty. Since the ark of the covenant is taken very seriously, I would probably guess that he does talk back, exists, and is probably quite a danger to some.

Depends on which believer you ask. They all have different ideas of how this god communicates, yet they have personal relationships with him.

Here is a video of someone who
slept with Janice Joplin,
invented the Christian music industry,
and then went on to prove that the godless internet generation
is still suceptible to prophecy by pretending to be John Titor.

He's a Roman Catholic Monk now, and
is much happier with his personal connection to the creator of the Universe
than the emptiness of his previous life as a Country Rock Musician.


David Grouchy


Enjoy.





Currently Catholic Music's number one recording artist.

catholic music network

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by AQuestion

. How about you try talking to me and not asking me to respond to the people you don't believe, I will treat you the same, I don't saddle you with the belief of complete haters of all believers.

I apologize. I meant that it was the belief of many christians that I've spoken with, not that those were your beliefs. As far was what supposedly happened to Enoch, I have no clue. Can you show me where Moses was saved?

Originally posted by AQuestion
I don't know God to force himself on anyone, that would be un-Godly, or would that be the kind of God you hoped existed, one that used force beyond our free will"?

You mean like Jonah, who was asked to go to Ninevah, but when he used his free will and said "no" to god, he was eventually swallowed by a giant fish, for example?

Or do you mean like Pharaoh, and how god hardened his heart so that he wouldn't let the people go?

edit on 4-8-2011 by Hydroman because: (no reason given)

Dear Hydroman,

I do love these questions. I didn't say I could show where Moses was saved I asked if you thought he went to Hell or purgatory, your answer was vague. I then asked if you thought that the rapture that Enoch was caught up in meant that he had to go to either of them. You have not answered that, I believe he went to heaven, that he spent eternity with God, that he walked with him and he talked with him, just like it says. I believe God took him because Enoch could not stand or live without being with God.

I love you bringing up Jonah, lol. Jonah did not have God forced upon him. Jonah chose to be in relationship with
God and promised to do his will and then Jonah tried to violate the agreement when God told Jonah to talk to non-Jews. Jonah's story is one of making promises and not trying to keep them and God never asks more than we can handle, Jonah was effective in his ministry and if you investigate it a bit, you will find out that it had an impacts for hundreds of years later.