Do you have a relationship with the creator of the universe?

Originally posted by randomname
do that with santa claus and tell me if you feel the same. that should answer your question.

Dear randomname,

You have absolutely no idea how amusing your answer was because you do not know why the OP began this thread. I do hope the humor is not lost on the OP.

reply to post by Hydroman


It's similar to a male/female relationship. Is the female always on the same page as the male? Or a parent and child? How many times do we tell our children don't do this. They turn around and do that same thing but say with a different car or friend and tell us well you didn't say I couldn't do that with them or use the other car instead. To many times we fill in our own wants and desires.

reply to post by Hydroman


Like typical religious 'christians' you try to put God in a human box. If you can accept part of you is spirit you communicate that way. If you don't then it's just religion as you may as well talk to trees (gee some do).

There is a reality that exists outside of our time and space and is more real than what we see. To think
we are all alone and created by an explosion of nothing into all we see takes more faiht than any christian.

My estimation is that you weren't a 'Christian' but more likely a religious person who went to a dead church with no more expression of the real God than at a football game.

If you did read your Bible, the answer was right there. Did you church actually follow the Bible? It makes me wonder? Twenty years !!! and you couldn't find it. That church leadership needs whipped! and likely will be .

Faith, is the only true expression as a person who understands the kingdom (what Jesus came to start). As God isn't something you can touch, you need faith to enter the dimension he exists in. I can hear him, but not always with my ears.

How can you explain knowing and 'seeing' a place you've never been to yet when you got there the answer you were looking for was there? How do you explain speaking to an illness and watching it disappear? There are things not easily explained. And even if someone said 'thats not God', well it aint human, so there is something spiritual out there.... which leads me back to my first point about you can't communicate with God on a human level without deep relationship. God himself say 'faith'. If you can't, then you never were of Him.

If you can't get this, then you didn't know God in the first place... which is very very sad for someone who spent 20 years in something.

Originally posted by EvolEric
Hydroman may I ask what transpired to make you a non-believer?

Yes you may. It started with something I already mentioned in this thread. People saying they hear from god, and come out to be wrong. I have seen this happen many times in my life, with people who were christians of many years. It made me think, "If after being a christian for 30 years, they still can't discern between their own thoughts and god speaking to them, how do I know anyone does?"

That was the beginning of the weakening of my faith. I decided that I wasn't going to be afraid to ask questions about my beliefs. Why do I believe what I believe, and how I do I know it is the truth? What if I were born in a predominately muslim country? Would I still believe the way I do now? If not, would that be fair to me or anyone else who is brainwashed to believe a certain way? Wait, maybe I was brainwashed too.....

I tried to read the bible, but every time I read it, I would only have questions. Such as, "How was there night and day on the first 3 days of creation when there was no sun?" Or "Where did Cain's wife come from?" Just a couple of the many examples.

I looked into the thousands of different denominations of christianity and how they don't agree with each other on many things such as how to aquire salvation, whether baptism is necessary or not, are the gifts of the spirit for us today, is there a rapture, is Jesus god or just the son of god, is the trinity true, and many others. I imagine there are those in this thread now who don't agree on some of those. Why not? Why doesn't this god have all of his followers on the same page, especially since they have a personal relationship with him?

Then I looked into the bible itself. Where did it come from, and what about all these different translations? Some leave verses out, some add verses. At one point, entire books were removed, such as The Book of Enoch. How can a powerful god let this happen? Then I found out that there are no original manuscripts. Only copies of copies of copies. I found out that man put the bible together much later after these books were written, and they left out things that didn't jive.

So, I would seek this god and hear nothing. No response. I wanted to really know this god if he is real. I wanted to be a true follower. Nothing happened, as you can see.

I began watching debates between christians and atheists, and the atheists made more sense to me. They just did. That's when I realized I was an atheist. That was over a period of about 8 - 10 years. I haven't mentioned everything that changed my mind, but that's pretty much the idea.

EDIT: AH, I forgot to mention the most important part, faith. I realized that no matter how much faith you have, it doesn't make it any more true. Hundreds of us believed and had faith that my brother would live after having a brain aneurysm. Heck, god told one lady that he would be healed. He wasn't. Hundreds of people had faith and prayed that the 7 year old boy in my son's class would be healed from brain stem cancer. After a year of suffering, he died. Having faith doesn't make your beliefs true. As a matter of fact, many belief systems have faith that theirs is true. Can they all be true? No. Can they all be false? Yes.

No, I believe that it is our mission to reach GOD not the other way around. I have a relationship with the Holy Spirit which is a part of myself from another place and another time. So I am reaching back to myself helping me to overcome these obstacles that are in place around me; in my effort to reach Heaven I can hear "within" that I have already reached it, just not yet, so I need guidance and that is what I receive within!

In essence I believe I am having a personal relationship with myself through Spirit in my attempt at reaching GOD.

GOD is not at all concerned about the workings of Man as we are only Life forms existing within GOD itself and nothing more, as all is eternal our dramas are insignificant to GOD.

As for our God, our Lord (lower case please), there is a difference and I believe that eventually we will be faced with the fact that we should have listened to our Spirits within because fundamentally we have failed to follow the path that would lead us to GOD; at least some of us might overcome this challenge, but on a whole we are all going to Hell if we cannot overcome the Demons that have infiltrated this realm, and face the fact that we are property.

Simply put, there are those who are touched by Spirit and have a personal relationship, and there are those who have cut themselves off and may very well have never been connected and are oblivious to the workings of GOD.

Myself, I cannot deny that I am having a relationship with a Higher Power and it is within me and all around me and it expresses itself quite clearly for the most part, I only have to listen!

Originally posted by daggyz


My estimation is that you weren't a 'Christian' but more likely a religious person who went to a dead church with no more expression of the real God than at a football game.

Meh, could be right! At least I thought I was a christian. This god played a mean trick on me and let me go live in another country other than my own for over 2 years to work with drug addicts and tell them about him. That was dangerous! Why would he do that? It seems like he would have stopped me when he saw that I wanted to live for him, and tell me that I wasn't doing things right. Jeeeeeez.

reply to post by Hydroman


Your whole spiel is based on what matters to you. As far as any Moses types walking around ? Those were the times that will come again. Should be soon but it dosn't have to be. I believe in God and Jesus Christ was the holy lamb. I don't claim I talk to God and I would never lie like that to claim I do. Why would God talk to me ?

You don't see the elite hang'in out with the homeless.

Anyone that claims, they are bad enough to with stand the voice of God ? I don't think has a clue. God may speak to his profits, but he only reveals things to thier mind. If you and God had an earthly relationship conversing to each other ? From my understanding, you wouldn't survive the first word out of Gods mouth. You must put on immortality for that.

Faith. It's all we have because that's how he wants it for now. It's not about you.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

This is in response to why you became an atheist. Let me begin by saying, believe whatever you want, believe what seems true to you. I don't think we are punished for believing in our hearts what makes sense to us. I don't have anything good to say about people who call themselves Christians and don't live the life and I don't believe anyone who says they speak to God and makes no effort to show love to others. The bible is pretty clear on one point, if someone says that God told them something and it doesn't happen, then they are a false prophet. That is a great way to determine who not to listen to and who is not of God.

How do you feel when you are apart from your loved ones, you are not interacting with them; but, you can feel the separation, the loss. If you never felt such loss then I do not know of a good example. We are born feeling that loss, we don't understand it and are not meant to. I am not big on forcing one's children to believe, didn't treat my own that way. We attended church; but, I preferred to stay at home with my children and just discuss spirituality. I would say what I believed and why and asked what they thought and what questions they had. My ex-wife committed adultery and she was the church goer, does that make her a Christian? I would say not.

I left the Catholic church at 12 and became an agnostic, I spent better than a decade investigating the different religions and the resurrection, I also studied apologetics. Being aware of my own sentience and seeing it as more than just a mechanical reaction caused me to look at other sentient beings. Who was the first sentient being and where did sentience come from, from a rock? How about this answer, the first sentience was the creator of all later sentience. Science shows that. Be well.

Originally posted by Hydroman
Meh, could be right! At least I thought I was a christian.

I really wish people would stop using that old excuse; I mean, the one about only leaving Christianity because you were never really Christian to begin with. It's kind of like saying drug rehab is impossible, because only fake addicts could ever stop being addicts/using drugs.

reply to post by AQuestion


Thank you for your response.

As you can see, there are many different beliefs when dealing with this god. Many claim to know him and have a personal relationship with him, but have different beliefs than others who also have this same relationship. Some christians say that others are not christians, just as you have. I would wager that some christians say that you are not christian either. It is so strange to me! If all these people claim to have a personal relationship with this god, why does he not unify them? A house divided against itself can not stand.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

You said "This god played a mean trick on me and let me go live in another country other than my own for over 2 years to work with drug addicts and tell them about him. That was dangerous! Why would he do that? It seems like he would have stopped me when he saw that I wanted to live for him, and tell me that I wasn't doing things right. Jeeeeeez."

You ask why he let you go to another country and why he didn't stop you. Why did you go, what did you think it meant to your relationship with God, was it for others or because you wanted to prove your love to God for God. That is what many are taught, that we are to try to make God happy, give him a cookie, he doesn't need our cookies. We are to love others and help them, were you not happy for the addicts that you did help or were you unable to help any in two years?

Originally posted by randyvs

Your whole spiel is based on what matters to you.

Yes, because I am concerned about me.

Originally posted by randyvs
From my understanding, you wouldn't survive the first word out of Gods mouth. You must put on immortality for that.

Imagine that. An almighty god doesn't know how to speak to us without killing us. I wonder how he spoke to the Jews when he said, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased," and they all heard it according to the bible. None of them dropped down dead to my knowledge.

Originally posted by randyvs
Faith. It's all we have because that's how he wants it for now. It's not about you.

Too bad for me.

Originally posted by AQuestion


You ask why he let you go to another country and why he didn't stop you. Why did you go, what did you think it meant to your relationship with God, was it for others or because you wanted to prove your love to God for God. That is what many are taught, that we are to try to make God happy, give him a cookie, he doesn't need our cookies. We are to love others and help them, were you not happy for the addicts that you did help or were you unable to help any in two years?

First, the bible says to go out into all the world and spread the gospel.

Second, I don't know if I helped people or not, but I made many friends. I tried to encourage them that they can overcome their addictions. As long as they stayed in the drug center, they were ok. But, I saw many times that those who would leave, even after becoming christian, would go back to drugs and sometimes they would OD. Like I said, as long as they stayed isolated from that stuff, they were good.

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

Yep not everyone one who says they are Napoleon is. Nope, lots of people claim to be Christians and are not, heck, you read the bible, it says that. It says many will come to him claiming to be of him and he will tell them to go away because he never knew them. If you are unfamiliar with the text I will get the chapter and verse; but, I am guessing you know the one if you were in the "church" for twenty years. Why would I believe everyone who says that they have a personal relationship with God when I have met so many liers, why do you believe them when you don't believe in God, that is very confusing. Most people don't even know themselves well. In either case, why be looking to answers from others regarding your relationship or lack thereof with God?

Shhhhh, read my second sentence of this post. Does that sound like God planned on having all people who claim to be believers of one mind, no it is called free will and people love to pervert religion and philosophy to make up answers to justify their bad deeds.

Originally posted by Hydroman
reply to post by AQuestion

 

Thank you for your response.

As you can see, there are many different beliefs when dealing with this god. Many claim to know him and have a personal relationship with him, but have different beliefs than others who also have this same relationship. Some christians say that others are not christians, just as you have. I would wager that some christians say that you are not christian either. It is so strange to me! If all these people claim to have a personal relationship with this god, why does he not unify them? A house divided against itself can not stand.

I like this scene, I can relate. I think many find themselves in this position.

youtu.be...

reply to post by Hydroman


Dear Hydroman,

You did not answer my questions and I thought you started this thread so that we could discuss such things. Why did you go in the first place and was it about the people or pleasing God. You say that the bible says to spread the word throughout the world, there are many that do and are quite effective, you say you don't know if you helped any or just made friends, why do you not know if you helped any when many became your friend? Some are called for many reasons, not all to preach, perhaps you were not called to preach.

interesting thread.

i've always had a relationship with god.

even though i left the catholic church many years ago. i'm really not into the pomp and structure.

the personal relationship to the creator is the only thing that matters but there are people that can help

with bigger questions that you have, pastors, priests, rabbi's, etc.

we have just joined a small christian congregation in our town, my wife sort of gave up going coz i was not interested and i decided not to be selfish about it anymore.

she is very devout, being chinese when most of her family is tao and buddhist.

i've been blatantly struck over the head by god 20yrs ago, among other situations in my life i recognize as his hand in my life.

i can say i have never heard him "talk" to me like voices, that is not how you listen, also that is not what people mean when they say he talks to them

he sends me e-mail but it's funny, he's from nigeria and needs money, just kidding.

people don't realize how much something bigger than themselves are in their life. even people disappointed and bitter who have left the church etc, have to realize they can't negate his existence.

we are his children, all growed up and need to get on with our lives, he won't bail us out every time we get into trouble, he won't grow back limbs on humans, he is leaving all that magic up to us.

he set the wheels in motion a long time ago, living a good life (don't need to be a nun or a monk) will not guarantee a blessed life.

if you think you been screwed over or "lucky" to be alive, ya gotta look inside.

i'm fairly old now and dam if i know how i got this far on my own. shoulda had my account closed years ago!

i look out on the natural world every day and am amazed at what i see. i see my friends from many different religions, cultures, class lol, orientation, talents, education and say to myself, ya right, I am the center of my universe. I made this all happen.

no, i was listening.

eta; i didn't tell you the downsides of my life, there are many! i try to stay positive.

Originally posted by AQuestion


Dear Hydroman,

You did not answer my questions and I thought you started this thread so that we could discuss such things. Why did you go in the first place and was it about the people or pleasing God. You say that the bible says to spread the word throughout the world, there are many that do and are quite effective, you say you don't know if you helped any or just made friends, why do you not know if you helped any when many became your friend? Some are called for many reasons, not all to preach, perhaps you were not called to preach.

I went because I was invited to go by a missionary. I thought that maybe this is what god wanted me to do. I don't know if I helped them because I haven't spoken with them in over 14 years. I never claimed to be a preacher. I was just volunteering over there, and witnessing when I saw the opportunity. I wasn't trying to avoid your questions, lol. There are Jehovah Witness and Mormon missionaries who are quite effective as well.

reply to post by Hydroman

Yes, because I am concerned about me.

When you can let go of that? You will know a greater freedom and you will see the first little glimmers of truth.
I've truely been to the point, that I didn't give a crap anymore, weather I lived or died. Dosn't mean I was out there walk'in the iron everyday, tempting fate, or try'in to do my self in. But I did go from cooning the iron and only
bolting up. To walk'in the iron and connecting in one day. I gave it all to God and I'm still here.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Dear Hydroman,

Yep not everyone one who says they are Napoleon is. Nope, lots of people claim to be Christians and are not, heck, you read the bible, it says that. It says many will come to him claiming to be of him and he will tell them to go away because he never knew them. If you are unfamiliar with the text I will get the chapter and verse; but, I am guessing you know the one if you were in the "church" for twenty years.

Yep, I've heard it many times and would have said the same if I were in your shoes.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Why would I believe everyone who says that they have a personal relationship with God when I have met so many liers, why do you believe them when you don't believe in God, that is very confusing.

Yes, it is confusing. And, I don't believe them now, but I did when I was a believer.

Originally posted by AQuestion
In either case, why be looking to answers from others regarding your relationship or lack thereof with God?

Because they claim to know and have a personal relationship the creator of the universe.

Originally posted by AQuestion
Shhhhh, read my second sentence of this post. Does that sound like God planned on having all people who claim to be believers of one mind, no it is called free will and people love to pervert religion and philosophy to make up answers to justify their bad deeds.

I'm not talking about people who are doing bad deeds. I'm talking about people who love their god and live for him. Even the missionary that I went overseas with, he gave up everything he owns to live for god. He had a great job, nice house, great family life. He gave up all. He told another family that god told him that their son would be healed, because he believed god spoke to him. Their son died as well. That doesn't make any sense to me. How can a man like that still not get god's voice correct?