Atheism is just plain stupid.

Originally posted by Planet teleX
Why do theists think they are the normal ones? Why do they think that atheists are unusual? We don't require a stretch of the imagination to be who we are.

You are born an atheist. You are raised to be religious. Therefore atheism is the default state of mankind, it requires years of indoctrination and several stretches of the imagination to believe anything other than atheism.

Atheists cannot disprove the existence of God....Theists cannot prove His existence.

I am a person of faith...but I'm not religious. I seek truth...not dogma.

Each of us is free to choose...belief or not.

We are also free to choose whether to work together and try to solve some of the horrors of today or snipe at each other over age old topics that will never be resolved in our lifetime.

Let us choose wisely.

Originally posted by gabby2011
wow...stupid hunh?

Tell me then..where did God come from?

He just magically was there?

Quite honestly...anyone who would believe in words written by humans concerning how this whole universe started..is a little mentally insane in my opinion.

I am not an atheist...but I understand where they are coming from...

edit on 31-7-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

What book are you referring to? I didn't see that the op had made referrence to any book... Where did God come from? Oh so since your great human mind couldn't come up with an answer then there must not be one, is that it? Oh and again, that question was not what the op was talking about so you just avoided arguing by coming up with your own arguments against... Um, Christianity I'm guessing? (based on your introducing the concept of a book "written by humans" and the term "God" as the Creator) Nice job turning the discussion into something it was never intended to be.

Op: Atheism is stupid. Something cannot come from nothing.
You: Where did God come from then? If you believe a book written by humans has all the answers, well you're just insane mister!

Ummm... Ok. That sure sounds like a rational and SANE reply to a statement having nothing to do with books or God. Do they allow internet privileges at the asylum these days? No wonder ATS has been so interesting lately....

And for fun, here's an example of a future conversation you may see here at ATS..

ME: Hey anyone else think the pyramids at giza might be a lot older than what mainstream archeology would have us believe?

Random ATS Member: You can't mix wiggles with waggles! And besides, where did Stonehenge come from then?? If you think Peter Pan was a true story, why am I even talking to you? Bleeble Blobble!!

Other random ATS members: S n F mate that is just what I was thinking!

Me: *facepalm* ....sigh. ats truly has gone down the tubes...

reply to post by JAGx1981


I can get behind most of what you've said.

I stopped going to church when I was about 10 years old, was decidedly agnostic by 12 or 13. In searching I considered atheist ideas, but came to the conclusion it's just the end of learning and it's stupid.

Imagine if scientists approached anything the way atheists approached religion. It's quitting in the middle of the search (or maybe even the beginning). Imagine if a scientist just said "cells" that's all there is, that's as small as it gets for no reason just because that's what they believe. That is exactly what atheists do (but also what the religious do as well)

The fact is I don't know, you don't know, and they don't know. The religious can give up the hunt and stay on their knees, the atheists can lead their uber productive lives for no reason, I will enjoy my time thinking and helping things along when I can.

reply to post by bwinwright


Dear bwinwright,

I guess I don't understand the point of your post and I am a Christian. In fact, I am currently working with a Pastor in developing his new ministry. The starting point is to do everything from love as we have been instructed by Jesus. There are certainly some very hostile and nasty atheists on ATS, I would hate to think that you were a Christian and were acting as they do rather than as we should, it does not speak well for believers when we do. Peace.

reply to post by Nosred


You said: "You are born an atheist. You are raised to be religious. Therefore atheism is the default state of mankind, it requires years of indoctrination and several stretches of the imagination to believe anything other than atheism".

Let's switch up your words for a sec, it may be said,

"You are born ignorant (of everything). You are raised to be educated. Therefore, ignorance is the default state of mankind, it requires years of education and several stretches of the imagination to believe anything other than being educated".

My point is, your argument is invalid. Just because you are born knowing nothing doesn't mean you should stay that way.

reply to post by Reprobation


There's a difference between being born not knowing facts and being born not knowing certain myths. A fact can be proven to a child and children can discover facts on their own, a myth requires indoctrination and forbids questioning. If atheism was not the default state of mankind, children would be religious whether they're raised to be or not.

reply to post by Nosred


But you guys aren't talking anything near facts. You are both talking about two unproven ideas. Opposite ends of the spectrum, but no facts regardless.

reply to post by RavagedSky


If you accept for the sake of argument that The Creator has no beginning (which you would have to), then your question is asinine; whatever is has a beginning is a creation. The same cannot be said for the universe, for an infinite regression in time is untraversable. Infinity, by definition, is that which cannot be surpassed.

If the empiricist accepts the existence of The Creator for the sake of argument, then they must accept that The Creator can't be grasped by the sensory perceptions. This is because only the material object or something in a place can be grasped by the senses. Again, if they accept the existence of The Creator (meaning the One Who existed before everything - time, places, darkness, light, etc.

reply to post by Reprobation


What if there is a god that doesn't know we exist and we were created as a byproduct of the universe he made. So, since we are unknown to him he never created an afterlife for us..
Then can you both be wrong so we continue on with our lives?

Originally posted by ZackMorris

Originally posted by gabby2011
wow...stupid hunh?

Tell me then..where did God come from?

He just magically was there?

Quite honestly...anyone who would believe in words written by humans concerning how this whole universe started..is a little mentally insane in my opinion.

I am not an atheist...but I understand where they are coming from...

edit on 31-7-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)

What book are you referring to? I didn't see that the op had made referrence to any book... Where did God come from? Oh so since your great human mind couldn't come up with an answer then there must not be one, is that it? Oh and again, that question was not what the op was talking about so you just avoided arguing by coming up with your own arguments against... Um, Christianity I'm guessing? (based on your introducing the concept of a book "written by humans" and the term "God" as the Creator) Nice job turning the discussion into something it was never intended to be.

Op: Atheism is stupid. Something cannot come from nothing.
You: Where did God come from then? If you believe a book written by humans has all the answers, well you're just insane mister!

Ummm... Ok. That sure sounds like a rational and SANE reply to a statement having nothing to do with books or God. Do they allow internet privileges at the asylum these days? No wonder ATS has been so interesting lately....

And for fun, here's an example of a future conversation you may see here at ATS..

ME: Hey anyone else think the pyramids at giza might be a lot older than what mainstream archeology would have us believe?

Random ATS Member: You can't mix wiggles with waggles! And besides, where did Stonehenge come from then?? If you think Peter Pan was a true story, why am I even talking to you? Bleeble Blobble!!

Other random ATS members: S n F mate that is just what I was thinking!

Me: *facepalm* ....sigh. ats truly has gone down the tubes...

Wow...feel like picking on me much...?

I was referring to the bible...where a lot of peoples beliefs about God come from. ..

As far as as humans having the answers to how life all started..I don't totally buy the theories from scientists either..though they are just theories.

I'm so sorry if I obviously hit some sort of "sensitive" spot ..be stating that the very question the OP posed about atheists not believing there is a God..could very well be posed about a God or creator as well. I'm so sorry you did not see that I meant the bible in referring to a book...though others seemed to have understood.

ATS may be going down the tubes...I haven't been here long enough to make that judgement...but I can tell you this... its attitudes like yours that is helping send it there. You're example of future ATS posts was gibberish, much like your post was...

reply to post by Nosred


You said: There's a difference between being born not knowing facts and being born not knowing certain myths. A fact can be proven to a child and children can discover facts on their own, a myth requires indoctrination and forbids questioning. If atheism was not the default state of mankind, children would be religious whether they're raised to be or not.

...and this doesn't change the argument being invalid. You presume that religion is categorically wrong, and deem it a "myth", and, this, according to you, is a fact. You even know that this presumption is disputable to most people. On a similar note, The Creator's existence can be proven logically.

Can you name any form of order, just one example of orderliness that did not require some form of intelligence to produce or create it? Let me stop you now. I don’t want you wasting too much time thinking about it. There is no such thing. All orderliness requires intelligent direction. This law, alone, proves atheism to be a false idea.

Five pages, and no one so far has effectively refuted your assertion. No wonder it persists, never seems to die.

It may be true that "life", and the "universe" has been intelligently designed. Who are we to say otherwise, our perspective is rather insignificant?

It's actually a matter of fact, that a living cell, is far more complicated than a Swiss watch. Seemingly, a "designer" is implied.

Or is it?

What if there was a "form of order", that even the vast majority of religionists, already accepted as requiring NO "intelligence"? Perhaps you won't believe me, but check in with your priest or minister, see what they say...

MATHEMATICS

Here we have the most intricate order we can imagine!

But when we ask our religious leader if God can make a "square circle", or if He can make 1 + 1 = 6, he may laugh at how silly you are to even ask such a question!

Does mathematics exist "apart", even "independent of" God? Is it something that, like God, simply IS?

Further, mathematics is the most "complicated" thing we know of! If a person has little familiarity with mathematics beyond average schooling, perhaps this is a new idea, but I would suggest you don't take my word for it.

Earlier in the thread, the notion of "zero" was tossed out there as perhaps being unreal. Tell that to my mathematician brother-in-law, who considers himself a specialist on the subject. No exaggeration, but many human lifetimes could be spent examining the concepts that issue from "zero".

Evolution? None of us were there. "Creation"? Again, no one there.

Mathematics. Apparently ALWAYS there. Far more complicated than the living cell. Something that somehow supercedes God himself! Something that allows us to "describe" the Universe we inhabit, whether we like it or not.

The fabric of our reality, or perhaps Reality itself, at the most fundamental level.

Are atheists stupid? Maybe. But I'm pretty sure that religionists can be pretty arrogant.

JR

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


You said: "What if there is a god that doesn't know we exist and we were created as a byproduct of the universe he made. So, since we are unknown to him he never created an afterlife for us..
Then can you both be wrong so we continue on with our lives?"

When I say The Creator, I mean the One Who created everything, the universe. I mentioned this in an earlier post, maybe not to you, but on this page. Creating everything entails knowing everything, hence, your saying that The Creator doesn't know we exist is invalid, it's even fallacious if you accept what most define as God, that is, the One Who created everything.

reply to post by Reprobation


I guess. I don't know why God would have to be all knowing.
We create all the time not exactly knowing what the result would have been.

Think of the hadron collider. They said it would be possible that they could create a mini big bang that would last for just an instance. In that instance could not what seems a billion years of life created by man occur in a nano second and us be totally aware. If intelligent life were created in that universe who is to say they wouldnt exist long enough to discover how they were created?

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by Planet teleX
Why do theists think they are the normal ones? Why do they think that atheists are unusual? We don't require a stretch of the imagination to be who we are.

You are born an atheist. You are raised to be religious. Therefore atheism is the default state of mankind, it requires years of indoctrination and several stretches of the imagination to believe anything other than atheism.

Lmao...... no you are NOT born athiest, just indifferent, you have no clue that a God could or could not exist thus you do not know enough to make a conscious decision that God doesn't exist. Nice try at patting yourself on the back though.

Also whether you choose to believe it or not atheism IS a form of religion aswell . It is a "belief " that a God does not exist. Where as every other religion has a "belief" that some form of higher power no matter if a God or a loaf of bread exists.

But anywaysbas stated you are most certainly not born athiest

reply to post by bwinwright




There really aren't any atheists friend. All those who claim such are merely reacting to obnoxious christians who want to save them. See that way we are suddenly put on the defensive and the game is theirs for a change. Ha.

Oh dang. I am losing my non-belief.

Calling people names and trashing their beliefs. How very christen of you!
Sorry you are so threatened by them.

Originally posted by sadwolf
Calling people names and trashing their beliefs. How very christen of you!
Sorry you are so threatened by them.

I love how people play the " oh how Christian of you" thing. It reminds me of the race card.........

Christians ARE NOT perfect its kinda the entire basis of the religion ya know? We admit that everyone is a sinner and has sin..... thus why Jesus sacrificed himself. The whole " oh how Christian" thing is pretty lame and a true moot point.

Just saying.... that way next time you can debate with belief and some conviction instead of a played out saying.

I was Almost expecting you to say burn afterwords.... like " oh how Christian of you..... ohhhhhhhh BURN!!!!"

I find the thread to be flawed at inception primarily because the belief in God is that he must have come from nothingness to create what we HAVE from nothingness..

If anything it adds another layer on top of the very thing being complained about.

I don't believe Atheists are claiming that something came from nothing, I don't believe science would even be arrogant enough to make such a clam.. we simply don't know, Atheism is just anti theism .. we don't believe a magical deity did it.. there's no good evidence for religion as a reality but there's plenty of evidence of religion as a creation of man... there's plenty of reason to be Atheist .. and no evidence to support creationism as concocted in the bible by men.

The bible is a story written by men in an attempt to explain what we don't understand.. Most civilizations in history have done this.. they all believed strongly in their Gods .. ( plural ) .. it makes them no better or worse than those who choose to believe in the Christian God, but it takes a lot of arrogance to claim you are right and everyone else is wrong..

It's humbling to admit you simply just don't know for sure, and religion doesn't really allow that.