Beijing develops pulse weapons

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Sky watcher

 

One U.S. carrier battle group would need a nuke exploding on top of it to stop its war fighting capability. Since the battle group has air and sea dominance out to 250 miles, good luck with that.

You don't need a nuke to stop a carrier. Any simple conventional attack to ruin the runway would effectively put it out of business. You obviously do not understand modern warfare. Air sea dominance lmao, give me a break, did you hear about the russian fighters who buzzed the kitty hawk and the carrier was only able to get a freaking prowler off the ship; lmao. If they had hostile intentions, that carrier would have been sunk.

EMP protection was built into every piece of hardware the U.S. military since it was first figured out in the 50s.

EMP protection does not win a war. I already know that US hardware has emp protection; civialians are not. Do you think the US food supply tractors have EMP protection on it lmao? The military relies heavily on the civilian sector.

edit on 22-7-2011 by THE_PROFESSIONAL because: (no reason given)

What did you expect the navy to do? Blow the Russian fighters out of the sky and start a war for no reason? The U.S. knows when someone is gonna attack and when some asshat is show boating.

If you think a conventional attack is gonna get through a carrier battle group then you are really ignorant. Do you even have any idea what getting through the defenses of 8 surface ships surrounding the carrier would be like? It just wont happen. Im sure in your wet dream it does but even the Russians knew it was subs or long range cruise missiles to get that job done, they planned on shooting a hundred cruise missiles at one carrier. Some nuclear at that. The carrier alone has more than enough firepower to defend itself, let alone an Aegis battle group!!

If you think a conventional attack is gonna get through a carrier battle group then you are really ignorant. Do you even have any idea what getting through the defenses of 8 surface ships surrounding the carrier would be like? It just wont happen. Im sure in your wet dream it does but even the Russians knew it was subs or long range cruise missiles to get that job done, they planned on shooting a hundred cruise missiles at one carrier. Some nuclear at that. The carrier alone has more than enough firepower to defend itself, let alone an Aegis battle group!!

Didn't a Chinese sub surface once amongst the US fleet and didn't the Australian Military sink the Enterprise more than once in war games??

The US Military is good but no one is invincible..

Originally posted by TheOneYouFearIsRight


This type of technology isn't new, but it DOES cost a TON!

China wouldn't be building this just for the heck of it. They are much more pragmatic than to spend that kind of money on a nasty little toy that they do not plan to use.

Do you really, honestly believe that this is to defend against Taiwaan actions by the US? These strike me as offensive weapons rather than defensive.

The big question is: Are they planning to kick things up with Taiwaan? Or are they planning to make a run at us???

www.washingtontimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Weapons like these are primarily defensive, remember, weapons like the emp and the thermonuclear explosive do not discriminate. They can either be used for invasion, but, the user would still need to be quite a distance away, meaning we the victim would have plenty of time to regroup and prepare for the invasion force that can be expected. When being used defensively it would be a last resort because they are not going to want to just turn their own defenses vulnerable. They would only use it in battles that become definite losses. Like it has been said in the op, these weapons are extremely expensive. They won't be used lightly.

Originally posted by Kokatsi
BTW aren't all HAARP-type weapons capable of blasting out EMP?
I think so, and then not only China, but several other countries - including even Norway - have experimented with it.

I think you should study up a little on what HAARP can and cant do. Here I can help you get started: www.haarp.alaska.edu...

Originally posted by backinblack

If you think a conventional attack is gonna get through a carrier battle group then you are really ignorant. Do you even have any idea what getting through the defenses of 8 surface ships surrounding the carrier would be like? It just wont happen. Im sure in your wet dream it does but even the Russians knew it was subs or long range cruise missiles to get that job done, they planned on shooting a hundred cruise missiles at one carrier. Some nuclear at that. The carrier alone has more than enough firepower to defend itself, let alone an Aegis battle group!!

Didn't a Chinese sub surface once amongst the US fleet and didn't the Australian Military sink the Enterprise more than once in war games??

The US Military is good but no one is invincible..

I know I will be called a disinfo agent here but here goes. The story of a Chinese Submarine surfacing in the middle of a US battle group, is totally fabricated. I was a (I have since been honorably discharged) US Submariner during the time period of this supposed incident, and believe me the submarine force would of been well notified of such an event.

War games: All sides in a war game are afforded the chance to "sink" the "enemy" usually known as the orange force during an exercise. If the Offensive combatant is unsuccessful in achieving the goal initially using all available means the defensive combatant will make themselves more vulnerable. More vulnerable usually just means simply ignoring the oncoming threat and taking no defensive measures. Most of the time in an exercise all the participants are afforded the chance to be the offensive group. This sounds crazy, but it has a point. The countries we play war games are allies and we want to learn from each other and they want to learn from us and when tasking multiple battle groups this is usually the most efficient way to do so. (This is speaking from a Naval point of view as I know little of ground forces exercises)

reply to post by mileysubet


The US Navy was non too impressed when the Enterprise was hit..

Please stop with the excuses..

And please show proof of the Australians being given a clear run or that the Chinese story was BS..

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by mileysubet

 

The US Navy was non too impressed when the Enterprise was hit..

Please stop with the excuses..

And please show proof of the Australians being given a clear run or that the Chinese story was BS..

Proof: I have been in multiple (around 40) exercises, including many with the RAN. I am not giving you excuses, I am just pointing out the reality of modern Naval exercises.

Chinese Story: Daily News was the first "source" and the ONLY original source if you want to call it that. Also I would have known about it. Not everything is conspiratorial. Come on the daily news really?

But if you cant except an honest eye witness with military experience then I suppose I am at a loss then, you have won with pure speculation.

reply to post by mileysubet

But if you cant except an honest eye witness with military experience then I suppose I am at a loss then, you have won with pure speculation.

Eye witness??
What, were you there on both occasions and were also privy to the orders to "let the aussies sink us" ??

I think ALL the speculation is on your part with zero proof.

It is very obvious to me that you will only believe what you want to believe, so I digress, you are right, you have won. I could care less either way. I was just attempting to inject some reality to the situation, it was not about a military pissing match.

The fall has killed you....

reply to post by mileysubet


Ignorant comment because you lost the debate..

Well done and Cya..

reply to post by backinblack


The only thing I have lost is time, you where never my opponent, and never could be regardless of how many stars and flags you have.

This is my last post in this thread, you have fun with your little world Backinblack.

Originally posted by Aggie Man

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Aggie Man

 

Bullet at whom? Does a bullet have a 3000 mile range to China? Next

Touche!

Ok, so they EMP the US...what next? ground invasion?

Let's say 1/3 of America is armed....let's say 1/5 of them can fire a single bullet truly...what's the body count?

They can destroy our electronics....we can do the same....what happens after that?

Of all the little men on planet Earth, the Chinamen are about as worrisome as a cloudy day.

The results of the emp blast would result in millions of deaths in the first minutes of the attack(unless done in the middle of the night). Millions more would die of thirst and starvation in the coming weeks and months after the attack. No city has more(and most have less) than a 30 day supply of food. With no farmers farming, no truckers trucking, no planes flying, how would food be grown and more importantly distributed? Almost all money would cease to exist, the internet....gone, cell phones....dead, computers(civilian anyway) dead. One emp blast in the right place would be the most devastating attack ever launched against a civilized society.

And THAT is why I do not buy it being a defensive weapon.

We DO have something the Chinese would like to have... High quality agricultural land.

There are plenty of reasons for them to use it offensively against the United States.

reply to post by TheOneYouFearIsRight


I checked the sources and backtracked the references. The United States (US) Air Force Research Laboratory sponsored the 2004 conference where the Chinese presented this research. The conference goal was to establish safe international levels for electromagnetic radiation exposure. Like everyone else at the conference, the Chinese were looking at the kind of electromagnetic radiation emitted near transmission towers as well as environmental EMF pollution - and they found EMF exposures totally buggered multiple organs.

The Chinese findings were damning - threatening international corporate expansion - and could not be discredited; the results were solid. So US "Intelligence" developed a "distract, deflect and disinfo scenario" to neutralize the findings and block safe international standards for EMFs.

Unfortunately, there always will be people who'd rather chase boogeymen and hope for war than deal with right-here right-now real threats. Especially when real solutions to real problems threaten the bottom line.

Electromagnetic fields (EMF): World Health Organization & US Air Force Asia Pacific EMF Conference

Bangkok, Thailand

Statement of Conference
Over 140 scientists and government officials from 24 countries met at the Asia-Pacific EMF Conference on Electromagnetic Fields, Research, Health Effects, and Standards Harmonization in Bangkok, Thailand, 27-30 January 2004.

The Conference was organized and sponsored by the following scientific and government organizations: World Health Organization (WHO), the Thai Ministry of Public Health, United States (US) Air Force Research Laboratory, Health Canada, US Air Force Office of Scientific Research (AFOSR), AFOSR Asian Office of Aerospace Research and Development, AFOSR European Office of Aerospace Research and Development, Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand, TOT Corporation Public Company Limited, the Association of Thai Professionals in America and Canada, US Army Research Office-Far East, and the US Office of Naval Research-International Field Office.

Electromagnetic fields (EMF) are emitted from devices such as mobile telephones and their base stations, high voltage transmission lines, radars, or any equipment involved in the generation, distribution, or use of electricity.

Preceding the Asia-Pacific EMF Conference, international experts provided a tutorial on EMF exposure issues, including biological effects, energy absorption (dosimetry), standards, and electromagnetic interference. This tutorial was held at the Thai Ministry of Public Health, Nonthaburi, with approximately 200 attendees.

At the conference, lectures and discussions were held on international and national standards and the WHO framework for standards development and harmonization. The latest research and planned experiments on biological effects of EMF exposures, dosimetry in adults and children, electromagnetic compatibility as applied to medical devices, power line exposure assessments, and gaps in knowledge needing further research were presented. An (political?) assessment of the scientific evidence to date suggests that no adverse health consequences have been established at exposure levels below current international guidelines. [sic]

From the 2004 National Ground Intelligence Center scenario that Bill Gertz references in his July 22, 2011 Washington Times article:

(U) China: Medical Research on Bio-Effects of Electromagnetic Pulse and High-Power Microwave Radiation

(U) Purpose

(U) The purpose of this report is to explore the possible meanings and relevant implications of China's medical research on the bio-effects of intense high-power microwave (HPM) and electromagnetic pulse (EMP) radiation.

…Dose related effects on eyes, brain, heart, bone marrow, reproductive, and other vital organs were reported.

…Chinese medical researchers presented three briefings at the Asia-Pacific Electromagnetic Fields, Research, Health Effects, and Standards Harmonization Conference in Bangkok, Thailand (26 to 30 January 2004), on the bio-effects of intense HPM and EMP radiation. …Abstracts for these briefings are available on the Internet

(U) Species Specificity and Mortality Study

…The high mortality rates of animals (especially for primates) exposed to EMP radiation in the recent Chinese experiments are in graphic contrast to the lack of reported bio-effects associated with EMP exposures during the period of atmospheric nuclear testing (1950s/1960s) by the United States and other nations. This is probably a consequence of the extremely high field strengths used in the Chinese experiments. [sic. More likely related to the lack of reporting.]

References:
…www.who.int/peh-emf/meetings/archive/en/bangkok04_proceedings.pdf [no longer working - go to Electromagnetic fields (EMF): World Health Organization & US Air Force Asia Pacific EMF Conference ]

Electromagnetic fields of all frequencies now pollute our entire world - and are damaging human health everywhere. The World Health Organization (WHO) sponsors regular conferences on EMFs as part of its EMF program and project:

Electromagnetic fields

Electromagnetic fields of all frequencies represent one of the most common and fastest growing environmental influences, about which anxiety and speculation are spreading. All populations are now exposed to varying degrees of EMF, and the levels will continue to increase as technology advances.

As part of its Charter to protect public health and in response to public concern, the World Health Organization (WHO) established the International EMF Project in 1996 to assess the scientific evidence of possible health effects of EMF in the frequency range from 0 to 300 GHz.

Also see:

Electromagnetic fields (EMF): Mobile Communication & Health: medical, biological & social problems

The conference “Mobile Communication and Health: medical, biological, and social problems” was held in Moscow on September 20-22, 2004. It was jointly organized by the Russian National Committee on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection within the World Health Organization's (WHO) International EMF Project. Representatives of WHO, the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection (ICNIRP), and scientists from 14 different countries discussed the topic of "Electromagnetic safety of base stations of mobile communication."

The development of mobile communications, and the consequent need for global coverage networks has led to the installation of large numbers of mobile communication base stations. As a result there has been a need to fully characterize exposure levels around base stations, to check compliance with national and international exposure standards, and to assess possible health risks of public exposure.

reply to post by soficrow


Excellent research... and only because I am indulging my 'ego", I told you so.

We have a serious issue brewing deep in the background of all of our lives and the Chinese, with a billion people to think about, know that electromagnetic emissions are of consequence, especially for any soldiers and personnel who may find themselves exposed to massive Gaussian forces as technologies continue to advance beyond our ability to embrace their full impact.

Interestingly, in science-fiction there is a story (Johnny Mnemonic) which features the rise of a new illness caused by the constant exposure to increasingly powerful and pervasive electromagnetic signals which even now are all around us. I believe they called it Nerve Attenuation Syndrome in the movie.

At any rate, what's important here is the powerful meme that the Chinese are a threat to the US and vice versa. Many people seem married to the possibility, despite it's relatively unlikely chances to actually happen. The military is not always a source of malignant research. And we happen to be cooperating with them; so the theory that this is yet another doomsday weapon program seems to serve us poorly.

Could an EMP weapon be a terrible blow to any industrialized nation? Yes. Will it. Perhaps in some alternate reality this is an immediate concern. In our reality it seems like the propagation of an unrealistic possibility which only serves to feed fear and engender a focused concern somewhere where it will do little good.

So the US can have HAARP and more but we cannot have EMP.

US has nuclear power and weapons but we cannot have nuclear power or weapons.

I can go on and on about the hyprocricy and double standards.

Let's be very clear, the US has detonated 2 (TWO) NUCLEAR weapons in anger, in another country plus uses DEPLETED URANIUM weapons in other countries daily by the Metric TONNE daily.

But we cannot use such weapons, right?

For all we know (and is speculated) that the US uses low yield weapons today.

Seriously, while you maybe able to blow smoke and hot air up american's jacksies, you cannot blow it up ours.

Originally posted by TheOneYouFearIsRight
So if they had it 10 years ago, why bring it out now?

Is there something that they are not telliing us?

There is always somethin there not telling us...they dont admit to it until they think the public can handle it and after they test its full capability

reply to post by Maxmars

Excellent research... and only because I am indulging my 'ego", I told you so.

Thanks Maxmars. ...but when did you tell me (us) so? Do you have a link?

But seriously, post that link!

We have a serious issue brewing deep in the background of all of our lives and the Chinese, with a billion people to think about, know that electromagnetic emissions are of consequence, especially for any soldiers and personnel who may find themselves exposed to massive Gaussian forces as technologies continue to advance beyond our ability to embrace their full impact.

No kidding! And a lot more is known than is admitted.

Like that bit about …Dose related effects on eyes, brain, heart, bone marrow, reproductive, and other vital organs were reported.

Interestingly, in science-fiction there is a story (Johnny Mnemonic) which features the rise of a new illness caused by the constant exposure to increasingly powerful and pervasive electromagnetic signals which even now are all around us. I believe they called it Nerve Attenuation Syndrome in the movie.

I've often noticed that things like the poverty, problems and violence portrayed in movies is sugar-coated for mass consumption. Suspect the fictionalized "Nerve Attenuation Syndrome" in Johnny Mnemonic barely touches the current reality.

At any rate, what's important here is the powerful meme that the Chinese are a threat to the US and vice versa. Many people seem married to the possibility, despite it's relatively unlikely chances to actually happen. ...we happen to be cooperating with them; so the theory that this is yet another doomsday weapon program seems to serve us poorly.

Ah, but the warmongers don't like cooperation.

Could an EMP weapon be a terrible blow to any industrialized nation? Yes. Will it. Perhaps in some alternate reality this is an immediate concern. In our reality it seems like the propagation of an unrealistic possibility which only serves to feed fear and engender a focused concern somewhere where it will do little good.

Ahem. Methinks the industrial microwaves in our planet's atmosphere already are "an EMP weapon" - one that's disabling and debilitating people way before their time, altering brain function, mucking up animals and plants, and sometimes, even killing.

Already. No military action, just business as usual.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


The stealth fighter first flew in 1977. The F-117 would be revealed to the public in 1988.

The foundations of its design go back to 1958 to the Convair Kingfish and a 1964 Soviet text on radar.

The history of the Space Shuttle is just as bizarre, with its foundation in a USAF space fighter, the X-20 Dynasoar, that goes back to 1957.

We have toys in our toybox that even Santa's elves wish they had.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Evanzsayz

 

The stealth fighter first flew in 1977. The F-117 would be revealed to the public in 1988.

The foundations of its design go back to 1958 to the Convair Kingfish and a 1964 Soviet text on radar.

The history of the Space Shuttle is just as bizarre, with its foundation in a USAF space fighter, the X-20 Dynasoar, that goes back to 1957.

We have toys in our toybox that even Santa's elves wish they had.

I agree.

My feeling is that the US doesn't acknowledge any weapon or system, until they have something superior to it.
I love the F-22 and believe we have something in that "toy box" that is far far superior to it.