Ron Paul votes against the "Cut, Cap, and Balance Act". Why?

It is not what he says- but rather how he says it I fear.... I wish Dr Paul was a tad younger with a little charisma..and not such a wacky foreign policy( Israel etc)

What i don't see in all this discussion is any thing about Lobbyists.
This Government/Country will never function for the people until they are gone.
Get rid of the Lobbyists and you will see a return of government by the people for the people.
You will see a drastic reduction in Ear marks.
You will see an end to Media personality candidates.
You will see a end to wars of expansion.
You will see a drastic reduction of the deficit.
You will see a return of jobs and pride in America.
Get the fox out of the chicken coup.
They can do all they want to reduce the deficit, but if you don't get rid of the Lobbyists.
We'll be back to square one in a few years.
GET RID OF THE LOBBYISTS!

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

Please admit it - tax cut for the rich causing more jobs and wealth to the nation had been a lie and proven consistantly during the bush era when it had been prevalent. That money didnt go into creating jobs. It only went into either hoarding or gambling in the casino called Wall Street.

Not big on math are you. So prove it? You can't because it is leftist propaganda! What you blanking (Insert expletive here) don't understand is that not everyone who is rich is a politically protected mega corporation playing the stock market. The idiots define rich as grossing over 250,000 a year. That is not much for a small business to gross. Small business is still the backbone of the economy the idiotic idea that taxing the so called rich will bring in more revenues is the most assinine display if stupidity sold the dumbed down American public. So in your blind rush to punish the big politically protected mega corps you would wipe out the economy. They don't pay any taxes any way they are politically protected subsidized and bailed out etc. Please America pull you effin head out and and stop repeating unsubstantiated emotional BS!

Washington is teeing up "the rich" for a big tax hike next year, as a way to make them "pay their fair share." Well, the latest IRS data have arrived on who paid what share of income taxes in 2006, and it's going to be hard for the rich to pay any more than they already do. The data show that the 2003 Bush tax cuts caused what may be the biggest increase in tax payments by the rich in American history.

The nearby chart shows that the top 1% of taxpayers, those who earn above $388,806, paid 40% of all income taxes in 2006, the highest share in at least 40 years. The top 10% in income, those earning more than $108,904, paid 71%. Barack Obama says he's going to cut taxes for those at the bottom, but that's also going to be a challenge because Americans with an income below the median paid a record low 2.9% of all income taxes, while the top 50% paid 97.1%. Perhaps he thinks half the country should pay all the taxes to support the other half.

See the IRS chart: www.taxcutsincreaserevenue.com...

reply to post by shtf2012


While I think they are a HUGE part of the problem, they're not the solution. In a way, Corporate Lobbyists can be useful for identifying corrupt politicians. A combination of HUGE penalties for corruption (something China has gotten right), and reducing benefits received from Lobbyists. The purpose of our representatives should not be to benefit from the office they serve in, but to serve the public interest. Benefits that come from that should be welcomed.

Originally posted by shtf2012
What i don't see in all this discussion is any thing about Lobbyists.
This Government/Country will never function for the people until they are gone.
Get rid of the Lobbyists and you will see a return of government by the people for the people.
You will see a drastic reduction in Ear marks.
You will see an end to Media personality candidates.
You will see a end to wars of expansion.
You will see a drastic reduction of the deficit.
You will see a return of jobs and pride in America.
Get the fox out of the chicken coup.
They can do all they want to reduce the deficit, but if you don't get rid of the Lobbyists.
We'll be back to square one in a few years.
GET RID OF THE LOBBYISTS!

Good points.

Why Washington Lobbyists Don't Like Ron Paul

An interview with a lobbyist: electronpaul2008.wordpress.com...

This short interview outlines how the game is played.

AB SMITH: With him, I could send millions to his pocket, and if he intended to vote against my wishes, that money wouldn’t matter… he would still vote against my wishes. He’s a big problem if he ever made it into office.. thank God it looks like he won’t… not because I don’t like the man as an American.. it’s just that he would make my job hard

So I guess the word is out that Ron Paul's vote isn't up for sale like so many other's are.

Ron Paul Paid $352 By Lobbyists, Boehner Paid $202,165, Pelosi Paid $695,282

www.libertariannews.org...

Ahhhh...crony capitalism.....Mr.O's doing quite well... reporting.sunlightfoundation.com...

reply to post by hawkiye


The Bush tax cuts were sold to the public as a way for it to spur job growth and make up the loss in income from taxes of the $250K+ bracket. Jobs WERE created, but not enough to cover the lack of taxes by a LONG shot. Here's a great article that explains the results.

Bush Tax Cut Numbers

We made 2.74 TRILLION dollars less over 8 years than we would have if we hadn't enacted those tax cuts. Jobs WERE created, but it was economically unsound looking after the fact.

reply to post by crimvelvet


If 2.74 trillion is piddling, I'd be curious to see your idea of significant.

reply to post by robyn

Ahhhh...crony capitalism.....Mr.O's doing quite well... reporting.sunlightfoundation.com...

Thank you for that information. I have LOTS of use for it

Anyone who has seen my post knows I have been following National Animal ID which morphed into the "Food Safety Modernization Act"

In 2010 Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C was up for re-election. North Carolina is a heavily Agricultural state. I called Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C to find out his stand/votes on several issues. His staffer assured me he was OPPOSED to "Food Safety Modernization Act" so I voted for the S.O.B. Imagine my disgust when I found out he SPONSORED the blasted bill!!

Again I call and was assured that he had changed his stance because the Tessor amendment "protected small farmers" from regulation. AGAIN a BIG FAT LIE!


Now I have the connection to show how he was paid off to betray his state.

Pharmaceutical companies fete a favorite

The pharmaceutical industry’s favorite senator, if measured by the sector's contributions in 2009 and 2010, is Sen. Richard Burr, R-N.C, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.....

reporting.sunlightfoundation.com...

Source Watch shows the Rockefeller pharmaceutical/ agribusiness connections.

And of course there is the Rockefeller oil connection

....Oil and gas companies spent $39.5 million lobbying congress in just the first quarter of this year,2 and have donated tens of millions of dollars directly to the political campaigns of current Senators, including $501,502 to Sen. Richard Burr.3... freethinkerspub.yuku.com...

Sen. Richard Burr outspent challenger Elaine Marshall by a 4:1 ratio in this year’s election, an advantage he turned into a 55%-45% win, according to Washington’s Center for Responsive Politics. Burr raised $11.2 million, as compared to $2.8 million for Marshall....

Burr was the top Senate recipient ($30,575)of money from business associations.... He was the top Senate recipient($293,076) of contributions from the pharmaceutical/health products.... He was the top Senate recipient ($26,296) from steel production companies edging Sen. Kay Hagan of North Carolina.. He was the top Senate recipient($118,001) of tobacco money....

He was the second largest Senate recipient of insurance money($297,860) f.... He was the third largest Senate recipient($219,525) of money from electric utility companies....
www.tuckreader.com...

The Elite definately wanted to make sure Burr won and STAYED bought!

reply to post by Grimbone


You and I also are supposed to pay our fair share of taxes - and I do - gladly - because I believe in my country and the system that so many of our people have fought and died for.
Now how about the wealthy and billion dollar corporations start paying their fair share as well? Why am I paying more in taxes than hundreds of corporations that are getting filthy rich? Why is there over a trillion dollars of US corporate money sequestered tax free in off shore accounts?

Originally posted by mrsoul2009
reply to post by Grimbone

 

Why am I paying more in taxes than hundreds of corporations that are getting filthy rich? Why is there over a trillion dollars of US corporate money sequestered tax free in off shore accounts?

Great question. It may have something to do with this...

reporting.sunlightfoundation.com...

Special interests lobby on the debt ceiling

So far, at least 141 lobbying entities have cited the term "debt ceiling" in lobbying disclosure forms filed, a search of filings from the House and Senate websites show, compared to just three in the first quarter of the year. The House and Senate are still putting forms online, so that number might grow.

As, stated previously:

The vast majoity of Washington legislators are driven SOLELY by selfishness and self-centeredness (ii.e. Will this aid in my reelection or not? What special interest group will this placate?). Hence, their positions on items essential to the well being of our republic as a whole are seldom to never based on that simple premise and change with the prevaling political winds.

And, el Presidente knows who butters HIS bread (globalists and multinationals).

reply to post by grahag

If 2.74 trillion is piddling, I'd be curious to see your idea of significant.

Let us make it clear. We are comparing the impact of tax cuts to the impact of "Free Trade" agreements on tax revenue.


Then we are talking about the taxes per year from the following job losses:
* more than 5 million manufacturing jobs
* 12 million information-based U.S. jobs
* half a million U.S. service jobs
* 500,000 financial services jobs
* 3.4 million high-end service sector job, (physicians, computer programmers, engineers, accountants and architects) expected to be off shored by 2015

We are talking a REAL unemployment figure of some where around 20%.

Hindery points out that the US economy is 20.2 million jobs short of what it needs for full employment.

Using the wage of $33,048 - the 50 percentile number for wages, where 97.30% of taxes are paid by that category and above, from the chart for tax year 2008 - then you are looking at taxes on $33.048 - the 25% bracket or $8,262 for each of the 20.2 million jobs lost = $166,892,400,000 - (a VERY rough estimate)

OR 167 TRILLION in tax revenue lost per year due to loss of jobs and GROWING!

So yeah the 2.74 trillion is piddling in comparison especially since it can be "rectified" instantly where as once a business packs up a factory and ships it overseas it can not be recovered easily if at all.

SOURCES:
The United States has lost an average of about 50000 manufacturing jobs per month since China joined the World Trade Organization in 2001 - that accounts for 6 million to China (WTO ratified in 1995)

MORE:

Documenting the Evidence of the Failed NAFTA-WTO “Trade” Model
A decade of exporting away good U.S. jobs, an exploding trade deficit and flat wages

* Over 3 million U.S. manufacturing jobs – 1 in out of every 6 manufacturing jobs – lost. By the end of 2005, the U.S had only 14,232,000 million manufacturing jobs left – down from nearly 17 million (16,774,000)1 before NAFTA and WTO went into effect in the early 1990s. Our disastrous trade policy has driven the loss of 2,542,000 good-paying manufacturing jobs since before NAFTA and more than three million since the most recent manufacturing peak.2

* One million manufacturing jobs lost directly due to NAFTA. ...EPI’s economists found that increased imports due to NAFTA destroyed 1,956,750 U.S. jobs while increased exports due to NAFTA only created U.S. 941,459 jobs over the 1993-2004 period. This means that, on net, the equivalent of 1,015,290 good-paying manufacturing jobs were destroyed directly by NAFTA trade.3

* The U.S. job export crisis is expanding from manufacturing to high-tech and services. .... job loss and wage stagnation is increasingly affecting workers in those sectors where the United States is understood to have a comparative advantage, such as professional services and high technology.

... buried by the U.S. government show that as many as 48,417 U.S. jobs – including many in high-tech – were off-shored in the first three months of 2004 alone.5

Economy.com estimates that nearly 1 million U.S. jobs have been lost to off-shoring since early 2001, with 1 in 6 of those in IT, financial services and other business services.6

Goldman Sachs estimates that about half a million U.S. service jobs were off-shored from 2002 to 2005. The firm reports that 15,000 to 30,000 jobs monthly (manufacturing-services combined) are subject to off-shoring going forward.7

• Projections of how many U.S. service sector jobs will be off-shored are chilling.
Corporate consulting groups eager to minimize the public and press attention to their client’s export of U.S. jobs have come up with astounding projections for jobs that could be off-shored in the future.


McKinsey said that 11 percent of U.S. jobs (14 million) could be off-shored in the medium-term

The Progressive Policy Institute, a think-tank associated with the pro-WTO/pro-NAFTA faction of the Democratic Party, found that 12 million information-based U.S. jobs – 54 percent paying better than the median wage – are highly susceptible to off-shoring in the foreseeable future

A widely-cited 2003 University of California-Berkeley study concluded that 14 million jobs with an average annual salary of almost $40,000 are vulnerable to being sent overseas....

Independent academic studies put the number of jobs susceptible to off-shoring much higher.

Alan S. Blinder, a former Federal Reserve vice-chairman and Princeton economics professor, says that 28 to 42 million service sector jobs (or about 2 to 3 times the total number of current U.S. manufacturing jobs) could be off-shored in the foreseeable future....

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

reply to post by grahag

If 2.74 trillion is piddling, I'd be curious to see your idea of significant.

Tax revenue lost due to job loss was the first half of the tax revenue loss. The second half is the tax revenue loss due to the loss of revenue from import duties (tariffs) REAL TAXES ON THE RICH

The value for imports to the USA for the year 2008 was $1,987,000,000,000

a 1% tax on that is $19,870,000,000 that is $19.87 TRILLION

So if you want to help American workers AND tax the rich put a "piddling" 1% tax on ALL imports

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

reply to post by crimvelvet


That information is stunning.

Also of concern is the H!B visa program and the associated L-1 program.

Congress did not stop at the H-1b program. They also devised the L-1 visa program, which allows employers to transfer workers from overseas to work in the U.S., while still paying them their foreign wages. This has created a huge incentive for companies like Intel to set up shop in India and China, hire their graduates, then rotate those workers into the U.S. to fill the jobs with cheaper labor.

www.freerepublic.com...

Many of these workers are in the IT industry and fill entry level positions edging out recent college grads.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by grahag

 

If 2.74 trillion is piddling, I'd be curious to see your idea of significant.

Let us make it clear. We are comparing the impact of tax cuts to the impact of "Free Trade" agreements on tax revenue.


Then we are talking about the taxes per year from the following job losses:
* more than 5 million manufacturing jobs
* 12 million information-based U.S. jobs
* half a million U.S. service jobs
* 500,000 financial services jobs
* 3.4 million high-end service sector job, (physicians, computer programmers, engineers, accountants and architects) expected to be off shored by 2015

We are talking a REAL unemployment figure of some where around 20%.

Hindery points out that the US economy is 20.2 million jobs short of what it needs for full employment.

Using the wage of $33,048 - the 50 percentile number for wages, where 97.30% of taxes are paid by that category and above, from the chart for tax year 2008 - then you are looking at taxes on $33.048 - the 25% bracket or $8,262 for each of the 20.2 million jobs lost = $166,892,400,000 - (a VERY rough estimate)

OR 167 TRILLION in tax revenue lost per year due to loss of jobs and GROWING!

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

Check your numbers. You're wrong. That's BILLION. Not trillion.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by grahag

 

If 2.74 trillion is piddling, I'd be curious to see your idea of significant.

Tax revenue lost due to job loss was the first half of the tax revenue loss. The second half is the tax revenue loss due to the loss of revenue from import duties (tariffs) REAL TAXES ON THE RICH

The value for imports to the USA for the year 2008 was $1,987,000,000,000

a 1% tax on that is $19,870,000,000 that is $19.87 TRILLION

So if you want to help American workers AND tax the rich put a "piddling" 1% tax on ALL imports

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

edit on 21-7-2011 by crimvelvet because: added 2008

Again, check your numbers. You're wrong. That's BILLION. Not trillion.

Originally posted by crimvelvet
reply to post by grahag

 

If 2.74 trillion is piddling, I'd be curious to see your idea of significant.

Tax revenue lost due to job loss was the first half of the tax revenue loss. The second half is the tax revenue loss due to the loss of revenue from import duties (tariffs) REAL TAXES ON THE RICH

The value for imports to the USA for the year 2008 was $1,987,000,000,000

a 1% tax on that is $19,870,000,000 that is $19.87 TRILLION

So if you want to help American workers AND tax the rich put a "piddling" 1% tax on ALL imports

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

edit on 21-7-2011 by crimvelvet because: added 2008

Keep in mind that 2.74 TRILLION is about 20% of our current national debt. That national debt is the total amount of how much we are in kitty to creditors. I MUST live within my means. Shouldn't my country also live within it's means? Fiscal responsibility strengthens the government.

The wars aren't even in the budget, which to me is unconscionable. Our leaders get an urge to go to war and they don't think twice about whether we should due to JUST the cost. We can't afford them and the longer we wait to get out, the more in the hole we'll be. Wouldn't hurt to close about 400 military bases around the world as well and bring all those people home and set them up at the airports, harbors, and borders. They're trained and motivated to protect our country and with enough discipline to follow through. Mix that with ending the Bush tax cuts and we could end up out of debt in less than 20 years.

Originally posted by crimvelvet WRONG! You are playing right into TPTB's hands.

I disagree. Let the Capital Gains Tax Break expire.

It isn't fair that billionaire hedge fund managers only pay 16% taxes or less while U.S. families are paying an average of 25% taxes on their yearly salaries.

reply to post by robyn

Also of concern is the H!B visa program and the associated L-1 program.

Thanks for ferreting out that information. I knew companies were importing workers to take American jobs but I was not aware of the exact mechanism.

Too bad we can not get the average American or even many ATSers to see this part of the picture because the are so hung up on the "TAX THE RICH" red herring.

I doubt the couple who showed on this thread even bother to come back and read the rebuttals.

reply to post by robyn

U.S. Debt Clock

US National Debt: $14,522,977,000,000+

US Debt Held By Foreign Countries: $4,636,914,000,000+
US Trade Deficit (Owed to China): $346,226,553,600,000+
US Unfunded Liabilities: $114,766,570,000,000+

(+ Rounded Up)

If we do not do something drastically, the United States will be owned by foreign countries. At some point in our history, we will have a president who will surrender the US to a foreign entity.

Let us pretend for a moment...
President and congress agree to extensive spending cuts. Debt gets raised by $2.4 trillion. What the hell happened? Even though we cut back on spending, we are not producing enough revenue to pay our bills. As a result of including a tax cut for any working class, the revenue needed to pay down the debt would not exist.

Unless you folks want a foreign country to own the United States, I do not think we have a choice in the whole tax increase paradigm.

Without some sort of revenue, how do we get ourselves out of debt? In order for us to get out of debt, spending cuts must be followed by a tax increase.

When one of the budget plans goes forth, we will be bringing the national debt up to $17.0+ trillion.

It is an unfortunate situation.

Here are a few ideas that won't fly but would eliminate the debt problem to the banksters...

What follows is a ten-step proposal which President Obama and the Congress could enact to lift the $14 trillion debt from the backs of future generations of Americans. These should be done concurrently as part of a single sweeping financial reform bill. Modeled after last week’s release of strategic petroleum reserves by twenty-seven nations, this measure should be enacted in tandem with as many willing nations as possible. The same Rothschild-led cabal controls the central banks of most every nation and there is power in numbers. If these measures are enacted separately or by only one nation, the Eight Families cartel will use their financial clout to target and destroy the US:

1) Introduce a Treasury Department-administered infrastructure investment fund, which workers should be strongly encouraged to opt into using accrued funds from their private 401K plans. This is important because the banker’s stock market casino will crash due to the next nine steps and workers must be shielded from this event. This fund can be used to rebuild America’s infrastructure, with American workers acting as lenders and receiving a fair rate of interest in return.

2) The US needs to withdraw from the Bank of International Settlements, the World Trade Organization, the World Bank, the IMF and all Eight Families-controlled multilateral lending facilities. We would save billions funding these banker welfare schemes while freeing ourselves from rules which prevent our financial emancipation.

3) De-link the dollar from all currency baskets and IMF special drawing rights. Ban trade in dollars on all global exchanges. This will create a demand for dollars and strengthen our badly devalued currency. Impose currency controls by fixing the dollar at 1:1 euro, Chinese yuan, Canadian dollar and Swiss franc; 100:1 Japanese yen. During the 1997 Asian financial crisis, Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad fixed the nation’s currency – the ringit. It was the only currency in the region that did not crash when Rothschild front-man George Soros took aim at the region.

4) Nationalize the Federal Reserve. According to a London barrister I have been in contact with, under the Federal Reserve Act there is a provision that allows for the US government to buy back the Fed’s charter for $4 billion. We should pay this fee, revoke the Fed charter and launch a new US dollar issued by the Treasury Department. With the dollar fixed, the vampires cannot crash it.

5) Cancel the $10 trillion debt to the Illuminati bankers. Debt obligations to foreign governments and small bond-holders should be honored at par.

6) Arrest the perpetrators. Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law all fraudulent transactions involving the Fed cartel. Send the FBI to the New York Fed. Seize all documents. Confiscate the world’s largest gold reserves which are stored there. These were stolen from various governments including from our own Ft. Knox reserves.

7) Forget just repealing the Bush tax cuts on the rich. The top tax rate on people who make more than $1 million/ year should be raised to 75%. People making more than $500,000/year should pay 50%. All tax brackets below $75,000/year should see tax cuts. If you get more from government you need to pay for it, instead of soaking the middle-class and blaming it on the poor.

8) Slash Pentagon spending. Shut down all US military bases on foreign soil, including those in Europe, Japan and South Korea. Withdraw ALL troops from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. Use the savings to pay off government and small bond-holders.

9) Outlaw offshore banking by US citizens and corporations. Bring your money home and pay taxes on it or surrender your US passport/corporate charter. The dramatic increase in tax revenue would be enough to pay off the remaining debt to sovereign governments and small bond-holders, while keeping our obligations to the Social Security trust fund.

10) Introduce single-payer health care and price controls on prescription drugs. The current corporate for-profit health care bonanza depends upon sickness and ill health for its hefty profits. In 2006 Canada government spent $3,678 per person for free single-payer coverage for all its citizens. The US government spent $6,714 per person covering the insurance, pharmaceutical, hospital and AMA cartels.

The savings attained from eliminating insurance/pharmaceutical/hospital chain/doctor-perpetrated Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security fraud will save the US Treasury billions. It is the only solution to skyrocketing and unsustainable health care costs. Using this methodology the US could wipe out both its deficit and its debt within a year. These measures should be planned in secret and introduced swiftly and in rapid succession. Social security and Medicare will be saved. The middle class will see their tax rates go down, while their retirement fund finances the rebuilding of a 21st Century America. Manufacturing jobs will come home, since the Chinese yuan will have seen a dramatic appreciation.

Our national security will be enhanced by withdrawing from the role of global policeman. If we keep thinking inside the banker-manufactured beltway box, our children have no future. They will live in a Third World country which produces nothing, lorded over by debt-collector parasites known as the “financial services industry”. The wealth-destroying Eight Families banker elite are the perpetrators of the US debt crime. Should a woman who is raped serve the sentence of her rapist? That’s absurd. Then why should Americans or any other nation pay a fraudulent debt foisted upon them by con-men? It is time for Obama and the Congress to get a backbone and force the criminal Federal Reserve cartel to make the “broad sacrifices”.

imperialtwilight.wordpress.com...

I would say that #7 would be temporary and #10 optional until we get back on track. However, we all know the banksters are in charge and they will never allow us to control their economic prosperity. The monetary system will have to crash first so they can take control of us in the chaos that would ensue.