Ron Paul votes against the "Cut, Cap, and Balance Act". Why?

The whole default debate is a red herring. The constitution clearly states that the government MUST pay it's debts before anything else. Social Security also has a provision that it must be paid. This whole debt ceiling is a scare tactic to allow TPTB to just carry on as usual, lining their pockets.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

By the way, everyone should have a signature banner that looks just like mine.

Why? He lost my support when he signed the Susan B. Anthony pledge

Wow. So who do you support?

Just because you differ in opinion on a small issue (baby killing) with a man who has delivered over 2,000 babies in his lifetime.....

He does not have your support?

One of the few politicians who has the balls to stand up and say he wants to drastically change our government to counter the elitists who wish to further enslave you and yours with debt?...and you find a lil issue you don't like and he's lost your support...lol

I fail to see your logic, but I doubt you're a voter so who cares.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

By the way, everyone should have a signature banner that looks just like mine.

Why? He lost my support when he signed the Susan B. Anthony pledge

The thing so many people are missing is that yes, Ron Paul has his views/beliefs. But unlike OTHER Presidents, he has no desire to force his views on you. He wants to reduce the size of the Federal government - remove their massive hand from the states. He is also pro-traditional marriage, having been married to his own wife for 50+ years! But he won't remove the states right to allow same-sex if they so voted to allow it. He doesn't smoke marijuana, but he won't stop the states from allowing it. (as we know, he is fighting to remove the illegality of this war anyway)

Ron Paul is a man FOR the People. He has stood up for our Constitutional rights his entire time in office. He has stated openly many times, "I don't want to control your lives..."

Without a doubt, if you love the Constitution and freedom - Ron Paul is the man to vote for.

Originally posted by dreamfox1
I officially say that The SHTF already.

The SHTF in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act.

What Followed Banker Edward M. House wrote in Philip Dru....a "novel" which the House of Rothschild (The federal reserve) implemented during our last century.

WW1
Stock Market Crash
Social Security
National Recovery Admin
WW2
Korea
Vietnam
Iraq 1 +2
9/11
Patriot Act
Afganistan
Libya

But Paul only talks about reducing spending.

This is what we need to do in order.

First, we have no choice. We spent that money, we will need to raise the self/borrowing limit.
Second, we need to let those tax cuts expire and raise capital gains tax to 28% and remove all unfair loopholes.
Third, we need to put people to work by hiring private contractors to build and repair.
Forth, we need to complete the removal of our troops in Afghanistan and put them to work building and repairing.
Fifth, we need to stop banks from gambling with our savings.
Sixth, when the economy has recovered a bit, we need to work on making public programs more efficient and remove the fraud.

Not to mention that a 'Balanced Budget Amendment" only makes future tax increases "constitutional" by progressive standards. All they would have to do is say "The Constitution says that we have to have a balanced budget, and the only way to do that is to raise taxes" because God forbid they ever consider cutting spending. A balanced budget amendment only opens a new door for even more government tyranny, if that is even possible at this point.

Originally posted by ren1999

But Paul only talks about reducing spending.

This is what we need to do in order.

First, we have no choice. We spent that money, we will need to raise the self/borrowing limit.
Second, we need to let those tax cuts expire and raise capital gains tax to 28% and remove all unfair loopholes.
Third, we need to put people to work by hiring private contractors to build and repair.
Forth, we need to complete the removal of our troops in Afghanistan and put them to work building and repairing.
Fifth, we need to stop banks from gambling with our savings.
Sixth, when the economy has recovered a bit, we need to work on making public programs more efficient and remove the fraud.

If we do 2nd through 6th, we don't need #1. Otherwise, I totally agree!!

Actually, Ron Paul has suggested we forgive our debt to ourselves. This would free up several trillion and we won't need to raise the ceiling. The problem is that it creates instant inflation by increasing money supply kind of like the QE stuff. We can combat that inflation by changing regs on banks, and making them keep better reserves. This will shore up the banking industry and stop the frivolous and predatory lending, and also limit their ability to create money supply in the form of leverage. If we do both at the same time, the effect should be fairly neutral.

More smoke and mirrors by the 2 parties. The public has to stop aligning themselves with these two parties and throw these self-serving elected officials out of office.

I can't think of a better way to make these elected officials take notice, but to elect a candidate that is clearly being censored and who is sincere about making the American economy and it's citizens a priority. Electing Ron Paul to the presidency and voting all these incumbents and career politicians out of office would send a clear message to Washington that the American public is fed-up with our current government system.

reply to post by Habit4ming

Yes, Ron Paul is pro-life. He's very honest about that, and I find it very refreshing....

Of course he is pro-life he delivers babies (present tense) I am pro-abortion but as far as I am concerned that is a non-starter quibble.

If that is ALL TPTB run mass media can find against the guy, he must walk on water! (I am an agnostic too )

As you say his private FEELINGS about those matters have nothing to do with the man's grasp of the present situation and his good sense. He wants to leave matters that effect us personally up to the states where WE THE PEOPLE have a much better chance of having a say in what is going on instead of today's reality.

K Street lobbyists WRITE the bills and the bought and paid for Criminals in Congress rubber stamp them.

Only if the states grab back the power stolen from them by the bankers puppet, FDR (Commerce Clause) do we have a chance of defeating TPTB

reply to post by EagleTalonZ

.....Without a doubt, if you love the Constitution and freedom - Ron Paul is the man to vote for.

It is just empty justification and quibbles. The people AGAINST Ron Paul want a huge government that regulates every aspect of our lives. Their only problem is THEY want to be part of the Elite who tells YOU what to do. - ENVY is the only reason they complain about todays government,. That and it does not exert ENOUGH control.

They should take heed of the lessons of history which teach how TPTB (the SAME families today) treat the oh so helpful "Intellectuals" of the various collectivist movements. The shield of the elite has a wolf covered by a sheepskin. The sheepskin, the banker wolves hide under, is SOCIALISM or other forms of collectivism, since they dovetail nicely with their plans of complete control of the world population. The starry eyed swallow the bait, hook, line and sinker, little realizing the "Group" they are so passionate about protecting is the group of elite intent on raping the common people. Neatest bit of sleight of hand I have seen in a long time.

Attacks on Intelligentsia

In the years immediately following their accession to power in 1917, the Bolsheviks took measures to prevent challenges to their new regime, beginning with eliminating political opposition. When the freely-elected Constituent Assembly did not acknowledge the primacy of the Bolshevik government, Vladimir Lenin dissolved it in January 1918. The Left Socialist Revolutionary Party, which protested the action, withdrew from the Bolshevik coalition in March, and its members were automatically branded enemies of the people.... [DEMOCRACY has no place in their plans cv]

Bolshevik policy toward its detractors, and particularly toward articulate, intellectual criticism, hardened considerably.... In 1919, he began mass arrests of professors and scientists....

These harsh measures alienated a large number of the intellectuals who had supported the overthrow of the tsarist order. The suppression of democratic institutions evoked strong protests from academics and artists,who felt betrayed in their idealistic belief that revolution would bring a free society.....

great thread. my question is this: wouldn't having the banks that WE bailed out repay the money they borrowed from US (i think it's approx 7 trillion $) do more than enough to straighten out our financial woes? After all..the banks are showing record profits and CEO's are getting record bonuses. Seems to me that business is pretty good for them.

Originally posted by camaro68ss
this is what i always argued about the bill. You still will have $1 Trillion in defect spending a year if the bill passed. It doesent fix anything!

edit on 20-7-2011 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

This is what drives me crazy about politics.

No one wants to actually THINK AHEAD, and take PREVENTATIVE measures.

Instead, crisis management has become the norm. Anyone who has ever planned anything, will know that things dont always go as planned, but having A plan is better than having NO plan.

Responding to crisis after the fact is neither efficient, nor effective, and only serves to play sides against each other.

No one wants to admit it, but we are at the point where we need drastic changes, not this cockamamey Obama change that is truly sitting back and refusing progress.

reply to post by ren1999

This is what we need to do in order.

First, we have no choice. We spent that money, we will need to raise the self/borrowing limit.
Second, we need to let those tax cuts expire and raise capital gains tax to 28% and remove all unfair loopholes.
Third, we need to put people to work by hiring private contractors to build and repair.
Forth, we need to complete the removal of our troops in Afghanistan and put them to work building and repairing.
Fifth, we need to stop banks from gambling with our savings.
Sixth, when the economy has recovered a bit, we need to work on making public programs more efficient and remove the fraud.

WRONG!

You are playing right into TPTB's hands.

TAX IMPORTS NOT WAGES!

TAXES penalize the people who EARN money not the MEGA rich and Corporations. The rally cry of "Tax the Rich" must have the elite laughing till tears run down their faces because it is a red herring for the masses that diverts even MORE wealth into their pockets. See my explanation: POST

Get rid of the unfair competition with US business and TAX the International Mega-Corporations at the same time by wiping out the "Free Trade Agreements" WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA....

Second DEFUND the rotten to the core mega-bureaucracies RUN by Mega-Corporation shills.
See: SHIELDING THE GIANTS
This is collaborating information:
Senate Hearings
www.access.gpo.gov... Testimony by Mr. Stan Painter, Chairman, National Joint Council of Food Inspection Locals:

www.fsis.usda.gov... Hearing where Stan Painter is called a LIAR by the government. (In a round about way of course)

Do what ever we can to support and nurture the little people aka small business.

Over 50% of the GNP is small business generated.
How important are small businesses to the US economy? (SBA.gov) "....generated 64 percent of net new jobs over the past 15 years..." Now that new growth has stalled because of uncertainty about Obamacare, changes in the 1099 tax code and other new regs.

Originally posted by Brodik
great thread. my question is this: wouldn't having the banks that WE bailed out repay the money they borrowed from US (i think it's approx 7 trillion $) do more than enough to straighten out our financial woes? After all..the banks are showing record profits and CEO's are getting record bonuses. Seems to me that business is pretty good for them.

Ok, I'll bite, especially since we're entering the fantasy realm.

Here's a thought, why dont we just find the missing trillions that "vanished" a day prior to 9/11, and subsequently were considered a "non-issue"

A trillion here, a trillion there......ahhh in the end of the day who cares? If our money is not even backed by anything anyways, who cares whether the monetary value is equivalent to the fiscal value. Lets just all start printing our own funny money and send it to the government. Thats basically what they do to us.

We MUST raise the debt ceiling.

We the PEOPLE could have avoided all this had we been less trusting in our past with the feds and greenspan, as well as the moron bush wars. But the past had happened, we saw the results now, and we need to correct them, not simply lie down, roll over and play dead. If we dont owe it to ourselves, we owe it to the innocent next generations whom looked upon us with unconditional faith and trust to do the right thing.

If defaults happens now, there truly will be hell on Earth when creditors come a calling. None would like it, to be evicted out of their homes, their parks, their foodstuff, etc, and will RESISTS.

Countries like greece, spain and others who default will not cause any major impact for they are only small nations. US is not such. When US resists even if the gov made of the likes of ron paul says go ahead, we'll sell chicago, but those living in chicago is gonna raise hell. Extrapoliate it upon the entire nation, and the mighty military is not gonna just lay quietly down, for they too have families and friends suffering.

WIthin such a mix, so too will greedy corporations and the indulgent rich seek a chance to recover their monies without loaning more money, but placing puppets into the game in the hope that the puppets will obey, but often than not, puppets come alive and cut their strings, and used it instead to hang their masters. It is human nature. It had happened before. Hitler is the best example.

No matter how many times the debt ceiling needs to be raised - never fear, because you are only basing upon today's wealth to judge the paybacks. There's always a tomorrow and wealth DO increase over time in a nation of rich human and mineral resource, if properly innovated and harvested. It had happened in history before and will happen again. Japan staggared at the vast sum for reparation to allies, and yet, within 7 yrs it paid all and grew into an economic superpower, by doing the right thing. They are only humans, just like you and me, and can do the same.

Kill the bill, and its game over for mankind within a few short months, not years cause our tech is no longer that of the 40s but fearsomely improved.

reply to post by getreadyalready

....The problem is that it creates instant inflation by increasing money supply kind of like the QE stuff. We can combat that inflation by changing regs on banks, and making them keep better reserves. This will shore up the banking industry and stop the frivolous and predatory lending, and also limit their ability to create money supply in the form of leverage. If we do both at the same time, the effect should be fairly neutral.....

Actually the current "reserve" required of banks is effectively zero. It is the 3% they need to keep on hand for daily operation. see: *****US Banks Operating Without Reserve Requirements*****

A lot more needs to be done like repealing all the banking laws sign by Clinton that got us into this mess in the first place. see: POST on Bill Clinton's contribution to Economic Crash

Actually going through the laws signed by Clinton and abolishing them would be a very good start. Instead:

Barack Obama has reshuffled his staff, bringing in a trio of free trade advocates...

...as head of the National Economic Council, Obama brought in Gene Sperling...
...in the 1990s Sperling worked behind the scenes to secure the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement.... By the time Sperling moved up to take over the NEC, he was working on China’s entry into the World Trade Organization, an event which caused millions of manufacturing jobs in U.S. to be permanently lost. Sperling also played a major role in repealing the Glass-Steagall Act, which separated commercial and investment banking. Many observers credit the act’s repeal with causing the financial crisis that brought the economy to its knees.....

...Chief of Staff ..., the president brought in the former mayor's brother, William Daley, a former Clinton administration official and banker. [as in Chicago's CRIME family??? cv].... Daley too was instrumental in the passage of NAFTA and China’s entry into the WTO....

And to top it off, General Electric CEO Jeffery Immelt was tapped to lead a newly created Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. [gag, barf cv] www.economyincrisis.org...

It is a very short article and well worth the read. Obama shows he is very much in the pocket of the Mega-Corporations and Banksters with these appointments. He is placing those responsible FOR the mess in charge of clean-up, Such a deal

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


So is that how you solve your own personal finances? You borrow more when you can't afford to pay it back hoping to make more money in the future? What a crock! If you can't pay your bills, you look for what you can cut so you can meet your debt load. We have a s**t load of programs that can be cut. Subsidies - cut, money to other countries - cut, grants - cut. Those are just a few examples of what has gotten us into this mess to begin with. Cut those and spend that money on reducing the debt and no ceiling has to be raised. Quite simple.

reply to post by haarvik


Yes. You are right of course. Cut whatever that TRULY needs to be trimmed down, BUT NOT starve yourself as you are implying as a solution. If someone have faith in your ability and sincerity to pay back and wants to help you tide over the creditors harrassment, you better take it to ease the pressure so that you can focus on doing what is right and what needs to be done, not throwing every program neccesary out with the bath water.

This is the way to solve one's finances. There is no need to commit suicide, jump off the tower, join a gang or rob others. It solves nothing.

Killing the bill is solving nothing. We are in critical times and the situation is BEYOND partisan politics. Every human life is involved, i aint kidding. Trade, unfortunately was and had been in US dollars and so are much of other's countries reserves, not to mention even your own savings. assets or wages necessary for your own survival

reply to post by WhiteDevil013

If our money is not even backed by anything anyways, who cares whether the monetary value is equivalent to the fiscal value. Lets just all start printing our own funny money and send it to the government. Thats basically what they do to us.

Print it on toilet paper with bernanke's picture on it. This the the photo I vote for:



HMMMmm sounds like a great business OP print up a bunch and sell on e-bay so we ALL can send them to ALL our government representatives

These are one of the guys who can print on TP (HINT HINT HINT)
www.justtoiletpaper.com...

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


We MUST absolutely must NOT raise the debt ceiling.

That action will only prolong the inevitable and give the politicians leeway to weasle out of their responsibilities.

I've said it before, I will say it again, "The end is inevitable, but the means are still negotiable."

This economy must crash. There is no way around it. We can continue to mortgage more and more of the futures of our next generations, but we cannot spend our way out of this crisis. The economy is falsely inflated. Prices are falsely inflated. Easy and available credit has driven up demand, which has driven up prices, and it isn't sustainable. It can crash now, and we can recover, or we can wallow and pander and pretend and then watch it crash 10 or 20 years from now when it may not be recoverable.

Lets get the show on the road, and start making the hard decisions and sacrifices to protect our children's futures, rather than making the easy decisions and encumbering and likely dooming their futures.