Roswell debris tested - - Not from Earth

The true scenario of the alleged Roswell UFO crash is apparently obscured by official secrecy. We do not know that the correct explanation for two seeming crash sites, which I described above, is the 'bouncing' of one craft from the first site to the second. That seems improbable, but many consider this the most reasonable scenario. This is presumably because the likely alternative calls for two ships crashing at about the same time at points 30 to 35 miles from each other. Such a coincidence begins to look more like something intentional, than an accident. Ross

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
However, as a general argument, nobody knows anything about potential alien spaceship construction, therefore nobody can say that aliens would not use aluminum.

Aaaa....the last sentence you typed is not correct. Split Infinity

I can deduce from this post and your previous posts contending that aliens do not use aluminum that you are trying to say that you have specific knowledge of what aliens use to build their craft. Please tell us the source of this knowledge.

For the record, I'm not necessarily a big believer in alien visitation of Earth (although I believe intelligent life almost certainly exisits elsewhere, somewhere). I don't think there is good enough evidence to say that aliens are necessarily visiting the Earth, but I think it may be a possibility....

...I'm only making the general argument that we ATSers can't say what materials are used to build potential alien craft because from what I know about the knowledge of UFOs, there have been no reputable reports (reputable to UFOlogy in general, not just to me) of someone analyzing a piece of alien craft material before...

...but it seems you are saying you know that someone has, and you know that results of that analysis show that material was something exotic. Can you give us more info about that specific case?

edit on 8/29/2011 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

My response aimed at the part of your post saying....no one knows anything about the materials used in construction of Alien craft. This is about all I can say...sorry. Split Infinity ps...I know this is sounds like a million other statements by those who seek attention....I can only say....I am the opposite of a person who seeks attention....attention has always sought me.

Originally posted by Soylent Green Is People
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

I'm not sure that an alien craft necessarilry would need to be made of someting like a carbon nano-material.

It is possible that aliens could develop magnetic shielding technology that can protect the craft without the need to make the craft out of exotic materials. Perhaps simple aluminum is good enough.

I'm not saying that I think that is the case with this material found in New Mexico. I'm still going by the assumption that the metal found is just common Earth-made aluminum until I'm presented with evidence that would convince me otherwise -- and that evidence has not been presented yet.

However, as a general argument, nobody knows anything about potential alien spaceship construction, therefore nobody can say that aliens would not use aluminum.

Also....magnetic shielding is of little use once a Gravitic drive is enguaged. A more important and detrimental aspect of necessity is the ability of spot on calculations when determining where and WHEN you are going to pop out of either a singularity based travel....or a directional falling toward a singularity as apposed to folding space. Split Infinity

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth

Quite a coincidence if the hardest substance known to a civilization thousands or millions of years older than ours happens to be the same as the hardest material known to ours!

reply to post by Ross 54

 

I'm sorry, I don't see how finding diamond in an alien spaceship justifies assuming that it is the hardest substance they know?

We make some boats out of wood, that's sure not the hardest substance we know.

Funny you should mention it-- the Roswell debris was made, in part, of wood. "Sticks," I believe was the word used-- even before the government was squelching the story.

This next bit of info...I saw on TV....but it is good evidence none the less. In the forced picture of Martell standing in front of a weather balloon....his superior is holding a piece of paper. With computers....nowdays...they were able to zoom-in and see what was written on this piece of paper....anyone but me know what it said? Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
This next bit of info...I saw on TV....but it is good evidence none the less. In the forced picture of Martell standing in front of a weather balloon....his superior is holding a piece of paper. With computers....nowdays...they were able to zoom-in and see what was written on this piece of paper....anyone but me know what it said? Split Infinity

I've heard about that memo.

Pretty interesting why the word 'disc' is used in a memo supposed to be explaining how the crash was a weather balloon.

The heavier magnesium isotopes, 25 and 26, appear to be more common in the Roswell metal, in relation to the lighter one, 24, than is the case with Earthly magnesium. This suggests the possibility that the metal may have come from another solar system, one with a smaller, less massive star than our Sun. A star with weaker gravity would be less able to hold lighter materials close to itself. These would be pushed outward by the stellar wind, leaving a relative greater abundance of heavier substances behind, in the neighborhood of potentially inhabited planets. We see the same general process demonstrated by the following facts: 1.) Meteorites, which originate in distant comets, or the asteroid belt, tend to have their magnesium biased toward the lighter isotopes of magnesium, in comparison to their ratios on Earth. 2.) The outer reaches of Earth's atmosphere are much richer in the lightest elements, hydrogen and helium, in comparison to other elements, than the atmosphere near the Earth's surface. Again, gravity can not hold the lighter elements well against the tendency of the solar wind to blast them away from the planet. Ross

Originally posted by Ross 54
The heavier magnesium isotopes, 25 and 26, appear to be more common in the Roswell metal, in relation to the lighter one, 24, than is the case with Earthly magnesium. This suggests the possibility that the metal may have come from another solar system, one with a smaller, less massive star than our Sun. A star with weaker gravity would be less able to hold lighter materials close to itself. These would be pushed outward by the stellar wind, leaving a relative greater abundance of heavier substances behind, in the neighborhood of potentially inhabited planets. We see the same general process demonstrated by the following facts: 1.) Meteorites, which originate in distant comets, or the asteroid belt, tend to have their magnesium biased toward the lighter isotopes of magnesium, in comparison to their ratios on Earth. 2.) The outer reaches of Earth's atmosphere are much richer in the lightest elements, hydrogen and helium, in comparison to other elements, than the atmosphere near the Earth's surface. Again, gravity can not hold the lighter elements well against the tendency of the solar wind to blast them away from the planet. Ross

edit on 2-9-2011 by Ross 54 because: corrected word choice

ROSS...while all of that is good and fine....remember....Any race that has the ability to fold space or warp it for the purpose of interstellar travel....also has the capability to understand and create....MATTER/ENERGY...INTERCHANGE.

To use a Gravitic Drive....and there are several types....you have to be able to generate a massive about of energy and Focus it at a particuar point in order for this energy to FOOL the Universe into believing that giant amount of focused energy is actually MASS. This means a super hi-tech. ability to understand and manipulate ENERGY and MATTER.

Any Race that has this ability....needs not worry about finding or obtaining any particular ELEMENT or ISOTOPES of. They could simply create it in a process of Energy to matter INTERCHANGE. Thus complex matrixes or hard to find ISOTOPES....whould be no issue. Split Infinity

As it turns out, the roughly rectangular area in the photograph of the Roswell crash site is very probably the site of a brush fire, rather than soil disturbed by a crash. It is not visible in older photos of the area, and fades out over time, to the point that it can't be seen in one made this year. It apparently matches the reported crash site by coincidence. Frank Kimbler remarked on these two possible explanations for this rectangular area from the start. It may be that six decades of natural weathering have removed any traces of a crash from the soil. It even seems possible that the military could have smoothed over the site to conceal what happened there. Ross

Two thirds of nearby stars are of the small, M class, also known as red dwarfs. Considering what I posted above about small stars and their relatively poor capacity to hold in light materials, the chances are quite good that material coming from another star system should be made of predominantly heavier isotopes than is the case on Earth. This appears to be an additional support for possibility that the Roswell metal could be extraterrestrial.

Originally posted by Ross 54
reply to post by Soylent Green Is People

 

I'd hate to have as good a story as this spoiled by an ugly little fact

but in the interest of being as objective as possible, let's look at the figures - - The range of error puts Mg 24 at from 78.6 to 79.6 % If 78.6 % is the norm, the test result extend from that norm to considerably higher. If each value in that range is equally probable of being the correct figure, there is a much better chance that it falls somewhere above the norm than right at it. Mg 25 range - 9.5 to 10.6% straddles the norm of 10.1% . Mg 26 range - 10.3 to 11.3, as against the norm 11.3. The reverse situation of Mg 24, all the possible values are at or below the norm. The probability is that the true figure is lower than the norm, somewhere between 10.3 and 11.2, rather that right at the norm at the very upper edge of the possible range of results. So it seems probable that magnesium 24 is more plentiful than expected and magnesium 26 less than expected. I'm not a metallurgist, chemist, or physicist but this appears to be the basis of the claim about unusual isotopic ratios, assuming there are no mistakes in my arithmetic!

edit on 13-7-2011 by Ross 54 because: (no reason given)

I do not mean this in a mean spirited or derogatory way, but you need to take a statistics course, that is not how it works. If the results show that the norm is not outside the margin of error then you can not then try to infer the results prove the result shows the test shows a non terrestrial source, this is basic statistics. There is no evidence here people, move along.

I don't pretend to any expertise in statistics or mathematics. It occurs to me, though, that when two values are near the opposite edges of the margin of error, they might very easily have both fallen outside those margins. If I've properly understood what I've read, margins of error vary somewhat depending on the level of confidence in the results that is desired. I don't recall any mention in the original article, which reported the lab results, about what level of confidence was used. I understand that common ones are 95%, 99%, and 99.9% Apparently the higher the level of confidence, the wider the margin of error. In any case, the results of one test could not, apparently, be considered conclusive, regardless of what they showed. Repeated retesting is, as I understand it, simply good scientific procedure. As we have been given, so far, the results of only one test, I do not understand how it could be possible to say with any reasonable conviction that there is nothing here. Ross

Originally posted by Frira


Funny you should mention it-- the Roswell debris was made, in part, of wood.

Wrong.

The following link updates the situation with the Roswell metal, through Sept. 3rd. The plot thickens, it seems. Heartening to learn that a sample was finally sent to Arizona State University for analysis, in a process that Frank Kimbler himself observes has been 'slow and tedious'. Depressing to learn that the sample reportedly disappeared from a sealed package, before it could be examined. ufotrail.blogspot.com...

It might be tempting to concentrate on the government conspiracy angle, in the disappearance of the Roswell metal sample sent to Arizona State University. This is certainly a real possibility.It does not, however, appear provable at this time, and so this line of conjecture leads nowhere, really. Better, by far, it seems, to use the same thought and energy to finally see the metal tested, and the matter settled as promptly as possible. I commend Frank Kimbler for taking this latter course.

Consider the possibility that recent developments in the Roswell UFO case represent a time of testing for humanity. Assume, for a moment at least, that an extraterrestrial space craft *did* crash at Roswell, New Mexico in July,1947. If this is so, that fact has been ticking away in human consciousness for the past six decades. It has been argued over, denied, affirmed, ridiculed, and largely ignored by most people. A rather large case of denial, if its true. So, is it now possible that humanity as a whole will finally look directly at this matter and find it to be a fact? Have we matured enough in the past six decades, gotten rid of enough of our fear of the unknown, to openly face the possibility, not only that we are not alone in the universe, but that we receive visits from its other inhabitants? ......... Some will say that such a truth was always acceptable, provided there was proof. I'm not so sure about that. What prevented someone from applying the same care and persistence to that alleged debris field at some time in years past, as Frank Kimbler has done in the present? Not only must a fact be knowable; the time must also be ripe for its acceptance. Ross

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth

Quite a coincidence if the hardest substance known to a civilization thousands or millions of years older than ours happens to be the same as the hardest material known to ours!

reply to post by Ross 54

 

I'm sorry, I don't see how finding diamond in an alien spaceship justifies assuming that it is the hardest substance they know?

We make some boats out of wood, that's sure not the hardest substance we know.

Funny you should mention it-- the Roswell debris was made, in part, of wood. "Sticks," I believe was the word used-- even before the government was squelching the story.

The small-diameter struts reportedly found in the Roswell wreckage reportedly had the following properties: Extreme light weight and slightly flexibility. This caused some to liken them to balsa wood, such as might have been used as a framework for metal foil radar reflectors used with balloons. It was also reported, however, that this material was unbreakable, and could not be cut or burned. That does not sound like balsa wood or any wood pieces of small cross-section. It seems possible that a lack of familiarity with opaque, flexible polymers (plastics) wouldn't have been remarkable in 1947, and that some simply likened the objects to the most similar material with which they were familiar. Ross

I find it highly dubious that any recovered material from the Roswell incident has found it's way into anyones hans other that those at Wright Patterson. From what I know....if some of it actually was found after or was given to anyone shortly after....it would not be all that difficult to immediatly tell that this material was not man made and just the fact that they are saying in this incedence that they are TESTING....and still are not sure.....tells me they have nothing of import. Split Infinity

Originally posted by Ross 54

Originally posted by Frira

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth

Quite a coincidence if the hardest substance known to a civilization thousands or millions of years older than ours happens to be the same as the hardest material known to ours!

reply to post by Ross 54

 

I'm sorry, I don't see how finding diamond in an alien spaceship justifies assuming that it is the hardest substance they know?

We make some boats out of wood, that's sure not the hardest substance we know.

Funny you should mention it-- the Roswell debris was made, in part, of wood. "Sticks," I believe was the word used-- even before the government was squelching the story.

The small-diameter struts reportedly found in the Roswell wreckage reportedly had the following properties: Extreme light weight and slightly flexibility. This caused some to liken them to balsa wood, such as might have been used as a framework for metal foil radar reflectors used with balloons. It was also reported, however, that this material was unbreakable, and could not be cut or burned. That does not sound like balsa wood or any wood pieces of small cross-section. It seems possible that a lack of familiarity with opaque, flexible polymers (plastics) wouldn't have been remarkable in 1947, and that some simply likened the objects to the most similar material with which they were familiar. Ross

From the initial report:

Brazel related that on June 14 he and an 8-year old son, Vernon, were about 7 or 8 miles from the ranch house of the J. B. Foster ranch, which he operates, when they came upon a large area of bright wreckage made up on rubber strips, tinfoil, a rather tough paper and sticks.

and later in that same item...

Brazel said that he did not see it fall from the sky and did not see it before it was torn up, so he did not know the size or shape it might have been, but he thought it might have been about as large as a table top. The balloon which held it up, if that was how it worked, must have been about 12 feet long, he felt, measuring the distance by the size of the room in which he sat. The rubber was smoky gray in color and scattered over an area about 200 yards in diameter.

When the debris was gathered up the tinfoil, paper, tape, and sticks made a bundle about three feet long and 7 or 8 inches thick, while the rubber made a bundle about 18 or 20 inches long and about 8 inches thick. In all, he estimated, the entire lot would have weighed maybe five pounds.

There was no sign of any metal in the area which might have been used for an engine and no sign of any propellers of any kind, although at least one paper fin had been glued onto some of the tinfoil.

I didn't write that, so don't shoot the messenger. But, I did accurately state what was in the original 1947 report. All subsequent reports -- especially from books and videos beginning in the 1980s -- seem spurious.

The 'initial report' quoted from appears to be the one from July 9th. Brazel's description of the debris differs markedly from what he had at first told his family and neighbors, and from other eyewitness accounts, including that of his son. By this time, Brazel had reportedly been detained by the military, and apparently forbidden to tell what he'd found. It is reported that he was escorted by military officers to newspapers and radio stations in the area on July 9th, and gave an account that supported the balloon cover story of the military. Ross