Why Atheism is being promoted by TPTB

Originally posted by Regenstorm
reply to post by applebaum

 

It's not about the interpretation of a certain religion.
It's about "your" actions here on earth. Do you follow your heart and sense for justice or are you seduced by the freedom of atheism?

I agree with you. The missing ingredient seems to be that humankind, whether religious or not, has no personal responsibility for their actions. As for TPTB, I think they are trying to warn Christians that prayer and faith that a Godman is coming to save them all is a fallacy, we are all in for it, as they say. No worries, people, we are not human beings, we are Spirits in a human container. When it drops, we will still be standing. In Spirit form one can do anything, go anywhere.

I have seen Christians do bad things too, things like rape, setting bombs to get to a girl, theft, and yes, murder. Being a Christian doesn't make you pure. It just gives you something to believe in.

Originally posted by Regenstorm
are you seduced by the freedom of atheism?

The "freedom of atheism" is nothing more than being born into the world inoculated against the world's pernicious, evolved theologies. Such freedom IS seductive. It is a human being's natural state.

reply to post by Regenstorm


This post brings to mind something that really, really bothers me about Christianity. You speak of taking personal responsibility yet the whole faith is built on an innocent figure being tortured to death for your wrongdoings?????
How's that taking personal responsibilities.
As a second point religious people claim good acts for some kind of frequent flier miles with the expectation of a reward. Now I can only speak from a personal perspective but Atheists I know would be more likely to carry out a decent act because it is the right thing to do with no thoughts to rewards in some illusory afterlife.

Originally posted by Regenstorm

Atheism is a "all Clear"-Sign for taking no responsibility for "your" actions.

Actually, the rest of your argument aside, I would say Religion is an (not "a"..you cannot have "a" something when the first letter of the next word is a vowel or soft consenant) "all clear sign" for taking no responsibility for your own actions

Personally, I'd say Atheist are better people, because an Atheist is more likely to be kind and generous to their fellow man for no other reason that just to be kind and generous.

A religious person does it in the hope of pleasing a flying spaghetti monster so they can gain access to some fairy tale Kingdom in the Sky once they are dead.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

The famous Russian novel The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoyevsky is famous for exploring the belief that in a world without God "everything is permitted." The point is that given atheism there is no objective grounding for morality. There's no reason not to cheat when no one will find out because nobody will ever know and it is to your advantage. Ultimately on atheism, the people who cheat to get ahead but are never caught - get away with it. Thus,on atheism the bad guys win. The drug dealer that makes millions on the misery and addiction of thousands of people, leads a glamorous opulent lifestyle and dies of old age is an atheistic success story. There is no such thing as ultimate justice, its simply what you can get away with. After all in a Darwinian reality all the truly matters is spreading you DNA as widely as possible. Helping the weak, feeding the hungry, loving you neighbor are simply emotional platitudes. On atheism, there's nothing truly wrong or immoral with anything you chose to do. After all, like Dawkins says you're just dancing to to the music of your DNA.

Well this is just hogwash -- Christians don't cheat - drug dealers are atheist -- the only limiting factor is "ultimate" justice. What is the problem with do unto others as you want them to do unto you -- is it not more moral to follow this because it is the right thing or because you are afraid of ultimate retribution.

So basically you are telling me that atheism is good for intelligent people who have good moral compasses but for the vast majority of the population the only way that they are good people is because you have indoctrinated them into the belief in a collection of bronze age myths. They are too stupid to act on their own or too selfish behave like civilized human beings. without the fear of divine retribution. Well that pretty much supports my view of christianity -- I guess on this we can agree. Most of my friends are atheists -- I am glad I don't have to hang out with dumb people.

I wish you could see how - from my pov - you are absolutely wrong -- in the silly way.

Good luck explaining the philosophical implications of killing God in a world where most moral values are based on there being a God. Neitzsche understood. Most of the values that seem "obviously" moral today are based on indoctrination of Judeo-Christian values. For example, why is taking revenge immoral if there is no karma or God to punish wrongdoers? Why should children listen to their parents? Why should relationships be monagomous and why is "adultery" bad? Why is envy bad? What about greed?

Originally posted by Regenstorm
reply to post by annella

 

Most western education systems and mainstream media propagate the evolution-theory.
Religion is being propagated as superstition by them.

where can you show me that the government "endorses" either? evolution is being taught as a part of science, since science promotes it as a likely theory with much fossil evidence to back that up. Creation is by comparison as you said, a superstition with no scientific evidence to back it up.

Science classrooms teach many things, but all science, creationism has no place in a science classroom as it fails to rise to the level of "theory" and is stuck at hypothesis.
They don't teach hypothesis as fact in any classroom no matter the range of scientific topics.

if theists want creation to be taught in school sooo very badly perhaps they should promote starting philosophy or religious studies classes in their schools. you dont teach cooking in an algebra class so religion and creationism dont belong in a science classroom.

Atheism removes the moral compass of people. If that is good or evil, who's to say as it is subjective. I for one see it as purely egotistical with all these atheists trying to prove one thing or another saying 'oh I help out My community' or 'the Christians went on a witch hunt' (I'm not Christian or any other religion).

Atheism gets rid of deep rooted honor, respect, and dignity because this is our only life and what not. It allows the ego to run rampant as they justify in being absolute pricks. Atheism is like treating yourself like a bag of meat, nothing more, and humans LOVE degrading themselves.

About this bull# tinman argument of 'where was God when Hitler reigned' (I myself am.. a spiritual atheist, part buddhism? Dunno how to describe it). One minute people shout and scream there is no God, yet the next they try to seek one to guide them, to tell them what is right and wrong rather then taking responsibility, taking action.

Why people hate taking responsibility? Why people hate themselves into utter degradation? I do not know. Maybe because it takes work to love ourselves. I don't know.

Originally posted by 547000
Most of the values that seem "obviously" moral today are based on indoctrination of Judeo-Christian values. For example, why is taking revenge immoral if there is no karma or God to punish wrongdoers? Why should children listen to their parents? Why should relationships be monagomous and why is "adultery" bad? Why is envy bad? What about greed?

All of which would come about in any decent society absent from the fearful wrath of a fictional Character out of a book. The world is full of societies that do not have an all powerful Monotheistic God, yet function quite well as societies with rules which we can all relate too.

There are differenecs, but you can find differences between two societies that worship the same God, based upon their own cultural history.

There are monotheistic societies which have rules contrary to the "judeo-Christian" moral groundings you cite, Islam and Mormonism allowing Polygamy, for example. Even Judaism allowed Polygamy at one point and I believe, though may be wrong, certain sects still do.

Adultery is not a religious idea, but rather part of our evolution. Back in the days of our distant ancestors (and visible in the Wild today), a male would get quite uppity if another started humping his women. Jealousy (and as a result adultery) is an instinct, not a learned trait. That said, some can overcome it and enjoy group sex, that's their choice and it would be quite offensive if you would impose your own moral imperatives onto someone else.

Basically, I could go into your every point and rubbish the reasons why religion is important. Religion is not necessary, in the slightest, for a decent a functioning society

reply to post by OneLife


No it does not! Removes the moral compass,

How so, exactly? Basically what you're saying is that people who do not believe in God are totally unable to distinguish between a good action and a bad one, which is obviously rubbish. For someone banging on about "ego", you are quite self-centred in believeing a Judeo-Christian religious society is the only capable of having any sense of "good" and "bad". What about societies that have no Judeo-Christian background, yet seem to have the basic rules of acceptable behaviour expected from their people?

john wayne gacy--- polish catholic

Aileen Wuornos AKA Aileen Carol Pittman--- Born-Again Christian

Ted Bundy --- methodist Christian Youth leader in Seattle/Tacoma

David Berkowitz: AKA "Son of Sam"---I dedicated myself to Satan and became a soldier and had the Satanic Bible

Stalin went to college to be a Protestant Christian minister.

Jeffery Dahmer was a son of a fundamentalist-creationist.

Timothy McVeigh. ---- Roman Catholic

there are many examples of such as i showed above...God sure make em moral and upright doesn't he?

seems religion isn't any better at making people moral and good than anything else, including atheism.
when are theists going to realize that morality, and goodness comes from within, not from an invisible sky wizard.

somemone must have set a magnet next to their moral compuses...yeah that's it

reply to post by OneLife

Again, people don't need religion to learn genuine compassion. Its instinctive... and having good parents helps. Next time you feel like being a dick to somebody, why not just think "Hmm... well, I can see where this person is coming from." instead of "Oh, I might make God angry!"?

Originally posted by OneLife
I don't know.

Everything in your post preceding the above sentence confirmed the above sentence. Not only is your argument a bad straw man, but it shows you attribute far too much power to theism and that you have a far too little understanding of what atheism is and why people are atheists. You could benefit from more education on these subjects.

reply to post by stumason


Ok, but tell me why we should follow evolution? Unlike animals, we can override instinct with reason. What reasoning do we have to poo-poo "obviously" immoral things? One could argue envy and greed are positive values, and there is no authority to say there isn't. Again, why should children listen to parents, or why shouldn't we seek vengeance?

Originally posted by alienreality

Originally posted by Skewed
I am atheist. I am (or try) to be respectful, honest, responsible for my actions and everything else. Although, I have no qualms in operating in the gray area to get things done when need be.

I also have little to no use for TPTB and hold them in extreme contempt.

So, what is that saying?

edit on 8-7-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)

It is saying you are using your mind and feelings for most things, just not everything..

You have an open mind about some things, but not everything, is exactly what you are revealing with your proclamations...

Maybe some day you will open up to further possibilities...

TPTB are control/power addicts. God competes with their demi-god fantasies. So they are trying to turn us into athiests.

Originally posted by John_Rodger_Cornman

Originally posted by alienreality

Originally posted by Skewed
I am atheist. I am (or try) to be respectful, honest, responsible for my actions and everything else. Although, I have no qualms in operating in the gray area to get things done when need be.

I also have little to no use for TPTB and hold them in extreme contempt.

So, what is that saying?

edit on 8-7-2011 by Skewed because: (no reason given)

It is saying you are using your mind and feelings for most things, just not everything..

You have an open mind about some things, but not everything, is exactly what you are revealing with your proclamations...

Maybe some day you will open up to further possibilities...

TPTB are control/power addicts. God competes with their demi-god fantasies. So they are trying to turn us into athiests.

God has been a very effective means to control people throughout history. Why would governments want to rid themselves of their most effective and valuable tool?

lol i called god a tool. nice

Originally posted by CaDreamer

God has been a very effective means to control people throughout history. Why would governments want to rid themselves of their most effective and valuable tool?

lol i called god a tool. nice

Yes. I think "power" uses the tools available to them. Such as the Internet - Facebook - Media - Religion - etc.

As long as it serves them to have a large group of people in a mind/energy controlled thought pattern - - they will use it. I think it is more natural to let Atheism increase on its own - - which it is.

I'm not one who supports becoming Atheist because God/church did something bad to you. That's like "I don't like mommy so I'm taking daddy's side" - - although the Christian Right is pushing many away from organized religion. And many Atheists become so because their search for god turns up empty.

If I ran a business (government) - - I would want my top echelon to be straight forward logical/critical thinkers. Suppose a drastic decision had to be made in population control to save humans. I want hard core number crunchers - - not bible quotes.

So I think TPTB are watching. I personally think what is happening in our world today has not happened before. However - one thing learned from history is - - you can control people - - but you can't control thoughts. You have to change thinking. You have to change culture. Are we changing from a dominant Christian culture to a more critical/logical thinking culture?

I wouldn't call it specifically Atheist - - but I would call it a change to critical/logical thinking.

reply to post by iterationzero


You very wrong here is some info to clear up Gnosticism for you.

gnos·tic
   –adjective Also, gnos·ti·cal.
1. pertaining to knowledge.
2. possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.
3. ( initial capital letter ) pertaining to or characteristic of the Gnostics.

–noun
4. ( initial capital letter ) a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual matters, and explained the world as created by powers or agencies arising as emanations from the Godhead.

Gnosticism
the beliefs and practices of pre-Christian and early Christian sects, condemned by the church, especially the conviction that matter is evil and that knowledge is more important than faith, and the practice of esoteric mysticism. — Gnostic, n., adj.
See also: Mysticism

I never claimed any faith here and never said you were going to hell or anything like of the sort so you need to stop projecting that.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Titen
My posts simply demonstrate the evil that can be attributed to atheism. On topic.
I realise when I'm offending a crowd. It can't be called trolling because I'm exactly on topic. Rederick yes, but I asure you and others I really don't mean to offend a single friendship. As far as atheism being catagorically demonised by the evidence shown? There's no way I believe that. I will cease. I just hope I've I knocked down
a few pedestels other members fly their insults from.


Ozzy
At least you get it.

Even though this entire OP is nothing more than a straw man, as an atheist, I'm gonna (to borrow a phrase) play devil's advocate here. What the OP is not that atheism creates bad people (and I don't know any that are) but that it allows for them to be bad because there's no apparent consequence in the "after life" if they get away with it in the living. Hollywood has done so much as betray this with atheist villains.

Villains will be villains despite their beliefs or lack their-of but in the end something in their psychological makeup is the real cause.

Theist villains will claim their god told them to even though any sane and just theist will say that this person is ill and their god would do no such thing. Even though their religious texts have portrayed their god doing and asking its followers to do such things historically.

Atheist villains will use the opposite ploy - the one the OP is claiming. That since their were no consequences in the afterlife they've now done this bad thing. Even though atheism itself is just the lack of believing in divinity or a divine being and never tells anyone to just go out and live without morals.

Basically when people commit crimes or immoral acts both sides have been used as escape goats. But the bottom line is in the end the individual made these choices on their own and they are responsible for them.

Biblical texts were moral tales written by man loosely set against historical events of their time to give them credibility. Sure laws by man could be made to enforce these morals. If people wanted to do something forbidden by these laws they were gonna do it anyways. But if they were told that even if the state doesn't catch you that this magic sky spirit would still judge you in the afterlife because it sees all and you'd end up paying for eternity. So what's the better consequence fear of the state for the remainder of your mortal life or fear of eternal punishment? History shows which method they chose to used to enforce moral law. But in the end it was just us that created the moral compass and used fear to enforce it on others.