Mankind's Lost and Forgotten history. A Perspective

Originally posted by kdog1982
Byrd,I have to disagree with your comment.

That's a little difficult to achieve, I think. It would require everyone to stop training apprentices (including apprentices who were about to set up shop as masters) and require those apprentices to not use any knowledge they had (no matter how slight) and refuse to pass any information to anyone else. It could happen, I suppose, if the technology was no longer useful (for instance, smithing shoes for oxen in our modern times... I don't know if you can't find a blacksmith here in American who can shoe oxen although it was a common trade at one time in our history.)

Because in my trade it is happening as I speak.
Not because of natural disaster,but because of economics.
Not because it is no longer useful,but because the
masters of the trade have been betrayed,and no longer wish to pass
on the skills they have acquired.
And because of lack of work,there is a gap in generations for the skill to be passed on.
I am speaking for the elevator industry.
The equipment is still there to use,
the skill required to repair them is slowly slipping away.
And before long,everyone will have to take the stairs.

I was thinking about this, it is getting the same with clocks and watches too. Many Artisan crafts are being lost due to the cost-ineffectiveness of taking on a trainee or apprentice. This is all very well while the technology can be relied upon to keep time, but if it fails, for one reason or another.... And now, much more fundamentally, the US has announced that it will nolonger encourage handwriting in schools, having decided that it is more important that children learn how to type, since that is the primary means of written communication, other countries will no doubt follow. And, it does make sense, over all. In a bland and drab world view way.

Much of what we now see as ritual and dogma, were once tools by which to remember important processes, take the production of a Samuria sword, for example, without technology to measure such things or writing to record it, the 'ritual' of production was essential to achieve the high standard. A machine can be programmed to do it now, but before the human was programmed to do it by mnemonic learning and kinetic practice. Without technology and machines we wouldn't exactly be helpless, as you say, we can still use the stairs, still use all our limbs to climb, but it is the technology, or how we and what we have programmed it to do for us, that we serve. Not the other way around. Is it really an improvement on our lives to be able to press a button and get a sword? The machine, to me, seems to be the one having all the fun and gaining a sense of accomplishment (not that I am implying that any machine has yet achieved sentience excepting myself that is ).

I'm stuck on this one, individual progress in itself becomes elitist because there is just only so much 'experience' to be had from modernity, everything 'real' just costs so darn much...which brings to mind '1984', where even love and contentment become an exclusive commodity in the corporate civilisation of automated responses.

reply to post by Byrd


that's what i was saying,

the level of education had to have been vast compared to the population.


skills had to be learned over years of practical application.

ya got 10yrs of an apprentice to make master and then what about the drop outs?


1, 2, 5, 9, in 10 making it?

i want to know how many seasonal farmers can just slide into building the only standing wonder of the world.


eta;

how many musicians that could rival the best, (mozart etc) were lost to being poor and not given a chance?

i don't buy it. yes, they were lost.

don't tell me people were groomed and nailed it 1st try.

BS!

Here is an example of a tradition and skill that could be lost.
It is passed down from master to apprentice,generation after generation.
Not by written word,but by being learned "on the job".

The skill is making a samurai sword.

This webpage shows the swordmaking process based on valuable photos performed by the late living national treasure, Miyairi Akihira (1913-1977). He entered the Nihonto Tanren Denshusho (directed by Kurihara Hikosaburo Akihide) at the age of 10. He made an unbreakable record of five consecutive "Tokusho" winner in Shinsakuto Gijyutsu Hatpyoukai from 1955 to 1959. In 1960, he became a Mukansa followed by the second living national treasure in 1963. He aimed the Shizu Kaneuji and Soshu style during his life.

www.samuraisword.com...

reply to post by Byrd

 

Didn't Akhenaten pretty much turn his back on the "previous view/knowledge" and created his own? Which later, those who were not of his thinking attempted to "erase and or eradicate" what he set out to create?

Not precisely. He did attempt to make himself the sole representative of his own deity and appropriated the funds of all the temples, but the priests of the temples lived. He tried to have his guards smash the statues of other deities, but more survived than were smashed. And attempts to erase him didn't involve killing the whole royal family (as we see, his son survived and so did his harem and queens.)

Yet. His way of worshiping was erased. Never to be used again in Egypt. With regards to his children surviving? Come on Byrd had Einstein been assassinated I doubt any of his kids or relatives could really understand what he was working on.

reply to post by kdog1982


You might enjoy The Ascent of Man by J Bronowski, part four (in four parts) The Hidden Structure...










If you have the time the whole series is worth watching, given that it first broadcast when I was a wee girl, it hasn't dated too much...but it is a commitment, several hours, but well worth it.

reply to post by SLAYER69


You should definately watch this series, The Ascent of Man, you would LOVE IT. And Kenneth Clarke's Civilisations, which I am sure can be found on You Tube as well...I haven't watched that one yet, I am waiting for the re-mastered version, but picked up the book from Oxfam Bookshop the other day and it looks right up your street. It was originally broadcast in 1969, but given the incredible vision of it's developer, one of my Gods, David Attenborough, I should imagine it will be worth your time to watch it.

Hi slayer,
for the time being, I am posting just to subscribe.
Its almost midnight here and I have an early awakening tomorrow for work.

Another book recommendation....I've only just started it this week...so not all the way through, but so far, exceptionally good, and a reasonably easy read...and only published this year, so right on the edge of current understanding.

'Europe Between the Oceans: 9000BC-1000AD', Barry Cunliffe (Yale University Press, New Haven and London 2011)

Great thread S&F for you my friend.

So many different things I want to reply to, but I shall take the last argument that I noticed as my first reply, which is about forgotten technology or skills.

As newer techniques are learned and mastered that replace or overlap temporarily with older ones, it would be easy to loose the knowledge of the older techniques.

For example, electronics and computers are relatively new and some of the techniques that were used in the creation of the first microprocessors, that are the brains of a computer, are almost a lost art.

What we refer to a microprocessor was at one time referred to as a microcomputer, which was normally built by hobbyists. Yes there are books that can be found, but there are few people that could build an early microprocessor for you as they were once done. One main reason for not creating one in the old way is practicality. It is a very time consuming practice and to get one as powerful as a commercial available one, would be immensely huge. As the microprocessor was used in commercial applications, techniques were devised to mass produce them that not only shrunk the size of them but made them a non repairable part as well. In a fairly short amount of time, there was no point in building one yourself anymore.

It is not limited to the microprocessor either pretty much all electronics have been miniaturized and have neutralized a once growing field. It is hard to find anyone even willing to try to repair the electronic devices of today, as most people rather throw out devices and get new ones instead of repairing old ones.

Electronic devices have always had a mystery to them to those not familiar with the way in which they had developed, but now I have noticed that more people who want to prove that we have had contact with aliens now point to electronic devices and state that we only have them because of alien contact and ignore the path that has led up to the development of the current electronic devices which goes all the way back to Edison and Tesla.

Where as the trade of electronics technician has only taken a few decades to dwindle, it may have been over centuries that new building techniques had overshadowed old ones before the older ones were forgotten. I can see if this type of trade dwindling happens in this day and age, I could also see as how it could have happened in ancient times as well.

I know I sidetracked a little bit, but I hope is understood why I did.

If you look to the past you can find many different inventions that may seem modern but were used for different purposes in the past than they are at present.

Automatic Opening doors were once used in temples to allow the parishioners to gain access and to allow them to leave. They did not operate the same way in which we think of automatic doors. The doors where set to open and close at specified intervals using weights and counterweights, pulleys and timers that were of different types, one may have used water running out of a container, while another one may have used sand running out of a container. Our use of automatic doors is used in stores and they use electronic technology to operate.

We tend to think of vending machines as a modern technology, but in ancient times they had similar devices that when a coin was put in a slot, holy water was produced.

Here is a link to inventions of Hero of Alexandria that explains this much better than I do. It is a wikipedia article and I know people wince at them, but this entry of wikipedia can be verified through books and other google searches.

In ancient times they did not conceive of using devices the way in which we do today, even though they were similar there are still differences that set them apart and on different paths.

If we did find submerged sites that had unusual technology, even though it might appear to be something like we use today, most likely it would relate to their daily lives somehow.

Though some coastal colonies have been found, I believe there are many more to find. I do not know at what level of advancement they may be, but at very least I would think that they would have been fishermen and farmers. It would be interesting to find even older grain silos than what has already been found, but that is all speculation.

As skeptical I like to think I am...I want to post some things that happened to my mother during her near death experience. When I look back at this thread and the talk about electricity...I cant help but to think about some of the things my mother saw.

She saw a matrix of energy...lines...and yellow dust that would fall into these lines. This is something she saw while her eyes were open, in the room around her. She said the lines connected to everything, even us, people.

While her eyes were closed she had other worldly experiences. She was taken to Egypt by who she called Michael. She said they went through a deep stair way under Egypt and came to a enormous place of records (books and writings), rooms, hallways, and what she called inventions that still were working as if they worked on some sort of perpetual motion energy. She described these inventions as 'models', like she thought they were only demos or something.

She went into a room that seemed to be made of glass and was all connected, like it was all one piece, the chairs, the desks, the walls. She saw symbols on what looked to be buttons and saw a large elevator door looking thing that seemed to be the focus of what the room was used for.

She saw in the books many star charts and what seemed to show her that long ago there was a journey to earth. When she asked Michael is she could look through the books she was told yes but also told she would not be able to understand.

One of the last things she saw were images of a people...and she said she saw this 'michael' in the images...as if he was once human and lived in Egypt and she took him for a figure that had a prominent role in that land along with a few others that stood by his side in the images. She also said there was a river/waterway down there and it even had a boat in it and she felt the boat was not something that had just been sitting there unused for many years but more something that does get used.

She was then taken to Petra after Egypt and felt there was a connection between the two lands. Like an object that was now in Petra that once was a part of Egypt. She said she felt like this object was very protected and it was at Petra, for protection.

And I need to note for those curious minds...my mother did not know of Edgar Caycee at this time. One of the first things I asked her when she recovered (weeks later) was if she ever heard of Edgar Caycee. She asked who he was.

The stair way that they took below Egypt was by the Sphinx and she felt like they went very far under Egypt.

I dont add this as info that is a matter of fact but people can take it for what they wish. It is info that I keep in the back of my mind when I read anything about discoveries in Egypt.

When mother would open her eyes now and then, she could not understand why we could not see the yellow lines and the dust. She would gaze at the air around her in wonderment, watching.

Ever since her experience, I have been more open to the whole electric universe ideas. I dont think they are perfect theories but I do think there is something to them that we are leaving out in our current theories of how the universe works.

Edit to add...she also saw a huge room, she said it was enormous. It had two large pillars in the middle of it and each had a crystal/glass looking globe atop of the pillars.



LV

reply to post by LeoVirgo



Thanks for replying.
That's a very interesting contributions.
I'm glad you have a more open minded view now of our past and possible earlier forgotten accomplishments.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


I've only seen a few bits here and here.
Later today when I get some free time I'll watch them.

I remember that The Ascent of Man by J Bronowski series.
Perhaps he came across sound waves as lifting methods.

According to the Tesla sound waves from coils as a lifting method for
his flying machine there might be more a connection than we realize.
Tesla worked with 10,000 cps and 50,000 cps pulsed coil frequencies that might
be considered high pitched audio frequencies than radio frequencies.
If the high voltage moves a lot of the fine matter in the environment the pressure
might be substantial.

So moving the Pyramid blocks might take a musical instrument or a lot of
high pitched voices.
ED: Talk about hidden structure then Tesla was the man.
He made cold and hot flames from coil operations and still see them in the
skies as modern day Ghost Rockets befuddling people as contrails
or chemtrails that do not move.

On the occasion of lost knowledge and history.
www.varchive.org...

PART III: MERCURY AND MEMORY

The section on Mercury came to mind as Bronowski makes mercury from
heating mercury power compounds.

www.varchive.org...
www.varchive.org...

As Velikovsky's story goes everyone talked the same language telling of all
history and knowledge everyone had to know.

Then as people started writing things down many lost the knowledge cause they
could always look it up. Something happened like storing knowledge on VHS tape and
DVDs some along or Apple computers to iPods and past knowledge was lost. Or the
scribes died and no one took over the writings. Like Velikovsky reads the Exodus into
a Papyrus and Mars and Venus too and no one else does.

Some how Velikovsky identified the Tower of Babel period with the arrival of
Mercury in our solar system and not millions or some cartel scientist indecisive
time of arrival. Lost knowledge, yeah its out there.

As always, I enjoy your threads. Well thought out and full of interesting info. I have one problem though....

I'm surprised you didn't mention post-glacial rebound.

Post-glacial rebound

Particularly, these two statements(bolded by me for emphasis):

Studies have shown that the uplift has taken place in two distinct stages. The initial uplift following deglaciation was rapid (called "elastic"), and took place as the ice was being unloaded. After this "elastic" phase, uplift proceeded by "slow viscous flow" so the rate decreased exponentially after that.

Post-glacial rebound (or glacial isostatic adjustment) produces measurable effects on vertical crustal motion, global sea levels, horizontal crustal motion, gravity field, Earth's rotational motion and state of stress and earthquakes.

Now, if something goes up, something else must come down to balance everything out, right? Just like a see-saw although even I must admit that that is oversimplifying it quite a bit.

So, could it be possible that there were areas of human-occupied land that were above sea level during the last glacial period but quickly sank(from the combined effects of this rebound and the rising sea level) when these glaciers began to melt? Seems scientifically plausible to me and does lend some credence to such myths/legends as Ys, Atlantis, the origins of the Tuatha de Danann and several others I can't think of at the moment. All of which have origins in areas which would have sank to some degree or other due to the rebound.

Looks interesting, but I will have to add this to my favorites and read though it fully later on in the day when I have more time.

reply to post by SLAYER69



Slayer:

Your posts are very interesting, exciting, and riveting. Always excellent reads, I think I can maybe talk for everyone that reads them, that we get so taken back by your wording, that we think to ourselves, I understand what I know a lot more clearer then before.

The amount of time and effort that you take in your post are impressive at the most. I am going to speak for everyone that reads your posts. Keep up the "GREAT" work. Don't stop your work at all. I will look forward to your next exciting post about ancient/lost civilizations, and other works.

Thanks again,

From all your readers

As always... Another great topic, and superior layout, presentation, linkage, and commentary.

As many of you already know I enjoy writing threads that think outside the box when it comes to a possible lost past or forgotten history of mankind

Same. Well done!

reply to post by andriod


Thanks.

Sorry for taking so long to respond I've been busty writing a very large thread on a related topic.
Stay tuned.