Mankind's Lost and Forgotten history. A Perspective

I have a feeling our real human history
is much more exciting and interesting than many give it credit

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As many of you already know I enjoy writing threads that think outside the box when it comes to a possible lost past or forgotten history of mankind. I've written a few threads on the topic of a possible lost past/history of which I believe we could tie in real scientific evidence from the very real ice age melt off. Let us begin with a popular myth...

Welcome to
Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-3 FINAL

Atlantis has reportedly been found along the coast of Spain. Could this be true? Yeah sure. This is exactly what I believe happened to many not just them, but many other Ancient civilizations/Cultures etc. The only real source for the whole "Atlantis" story was Plato. In it he never mentioned Laser beams or flying craft. As a matter of fact he mentioned Atlantis going to war with the Trojans and lost. We found Troy. No laser beam weapons or UFO remnants were found. That should have put the whole thing in perspective.

Another thing he said and is often over looked.

"When, on the other hand, the gods purge the earth with a deluge of water, the survivors in your country are herdsmen and shepherds who dwell on the mountains, but those who, like you, live in cities are carried by the rivers into the sea. Whereas in this land, neither then nor at any other time, does the water come down from above on the fields, having always a tendency to come up from below; for which reason the traditions preserved here are the most ancient."

I originally outlined these threads on the premise of the "Ice Age Melt off" Which I believe to be the source of many flood stories/myths from around the world including the "Biblical flood story of Noah" I know Graham Hancock has written a few books on the topic. But where he and I differ is that he believes there was an advanced vast global civilization where I on the other hand feel there were slightly more advanced megalithic civilizations/cultures which were at varying levels of development independent of each other spread through out the prehistoric world older than 10,000 B.C.

In my well received first thread on the topic Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-1 I laid out what I believe to be a recurring global memory of a possible lost history of events. Some replies in it were from those who only read the threads title and posted replies such as "Atlantis is a myth" obviously not bothering to read the content. I hope this will be avoided that in this last edition. I presented further information in the follow up. Origins of Atlantis/Lemuria Myths Part-2

In those I've outlined the idea that mankind had to start over possibly a few times. I honestly don't believe we ever reached our present level of technology but a certain level of advanced megalithic construction the evidence of which are on and along those now submerged ancient pre-ice-age-melt-off coastlines. To gain a better perspective on early mans journey I began by tracing down his earliest known genetic trail. It is a topic that has always fascinated me all of my life. I realized before I presented this third and final thread on that topic I had to put forward a theory on DNA.

It's a hard topic to discuss sometimes without causing conflict with some who have long held beliefs. I laid it out in this thread. Man's Genetic voyage. Fact, Speculation and Theories and further elaborated on and discussed here, Neanderthals and Denisovans our Genetic cousins. By the way, I tossed the "Adam and Eve" husband and wife thing in to stir the pot a bit. It was not meant to be taken in the literal sense.

In those I tried taking a different angle. I feel if people are willing to discuss "Ancient Aliens" messing with our DNA etc then why not write about our DNA journey within the context of archeological and genetic evidence? Sure, [we may still find some ancient cave painting where they depict Ancient man being probed by aliens ] I suppose. I'm sure as time goes on we'll come across a few more "Unknowns" either still to be added to our line or genetic dead ends. I also feel that the possibility that modern man took on some of the physical appearance/characteristics of those older lines as being very plausible to me as well. Why not? those older lines were adapted to their surroundings longer than we had been out of Africa. So if there were genetic swapping it seems logical that our bodies used the best traits they inherited for that region.

Which opens the discussion further. I've taken some undeniable Facts. The DNA evidence and I Speculated as to how they were dispersed and then Theorized on the rest. Anybody reading this or those threads are welcomed to do the same and provide us with their version of events. All opinions are welcomed by the way.

Genetic variations...
I think environmental factors play a huge part. Of course when dealing with now Billions of people we will see untold numbers of Variations. But IMHO back in the early days we were a product of our environment and available Nutritional factors. One could possibly argue the reason "Modern-Man Homo-Sapiens" were smarter than the older lines is because of Coastal migration and the intake of seafood. Fish = Brain food. There is no evidence of those other older lines eating seafood YET.

As always when we procreate we roll the dice. There is always a possibility of some sort of positive genetic variation that is better suited for our local environment. Now which is it? A freak variation occurrence in our genetic code/makeup OR our bodies adapting to their surroundings? The whole out of Africa scenario IMO happened for many reasons maybe the first widespread migration due to massive changes in North African weather patterns is true. If as many believe Egypt became a great culture due to the influx of mass migration away from the ever expanding desert to settle near the Nile spurring cultural development then there may be other locations on Earth that could have created Civilization as well due to similar circumstances or other environmental reasons in other locations.

If the theory holds true then we need to start looking at other locations not just the "Nile, Euphrates, Indus valley or the Yellow river" This scenario could have played out elsewhere. I wonder if some have thought of looking along other ancient "River locations" which are now dead dry river valleys or river valleys that are now submerged? [Besides the already known areas] Or search along present rivers but see if we can spot by Satellite images their ancient river paths/course which have changed directions over the past 30,000 years or so. Maybe along those ancient paths/courses there are settlements now buried still to be discovered?

This is why IMHO Genetic tracking is crucial. Hopefully we will continue to come across more skeletons that have viable DNA samples so we can continue to track this ever expanding story of Man. For those who doubt that "Environmental" changes didn't have a drastic affect on our story I made the following animation to demonstrate the Changes Earth has gone through over the past 200,000 years or so.

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In the above animation. Take a minute and choose your favorite area of interest. Be it Ancient India, Australia, Japan, Korea and or Greece etc. Notice how the land expands and contracts with the variations of the ice cap? This is our planets Real history. For me it's a telling sign of how Humans had to adapt and migrate in order to survive. Also watch what happens to the Persian Gulf region in the last 10,000 years. If the following article is correct something major happened around 8,000 years ago or 6,000 B.C. so now we are getting close to the birth of civilization in that region. It wouldn't surprise me if the "Biblical Flood Story" may have gotten some of the FACTS wrong etc. [Wouldn't be the first time in human history] Interesting info about the "FLOOD STORY" maybe we need to connect the dots a bit here.

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Lost civilization may have been beneath Persian Gulf

At its peak, the floodplain now below the Gulf would have been about the size of Great Britain, and then shrank as water began to flood the area. Then, about 8,000 years ago, the land would have been swallowed up by the Indian Ocean

Watery refuge
The Gulf Oasis would have been a shallow inland basin exposed from about 75,000 years ago until 8,000 years ago, forming the southern tip of the Fertile Crescent, according to historical sea-level records.

"Perhaps it is no coincidence that the founding of such remarkably well developed communities along the shoreline corresponds with the flooding of the Persian Gulf basin around 8,000 years ago," Rose said. "These new colonists may have come from the heart of the Gulf, displaced by rising water levels that plunged the once fertile landscape beneath the waters of the Indian Ocean."

Again, I don't believe in a "World Wide flood" I've always maintained a stance that there were large regional floods where the people had to pack up and either head inland or up to higher ground during the last of the ice age melt off. I feel this type of climatic change has occurred numerous times going back millions of years. Where possibly other "Hominins" were cut off from each other and genetically isolated. This opens up the possibility of other hominins in our family tree that are yet to be Identified.

For those who will argue that

"WE "modern" humans did not descend from them or any other monkey-like creature. THEY are degenerate forms of Us. That is why they are Extinct and we are not. "Modern" humans have been on Earth for Millions of years. "

I appreciate the stance. But, The genetic evidence paints an entirely different scenario. The problem with that argument is the belief that Neanderthal and now Denisovans were simply a "Monkey or Apish Brute" They were not. I covered my stance on them in my other thread I linked to in the OP. Technically speaking they didn't go "Extinct" Modern man carries within him their genes. We bred them out of existence. We diluted their blood lines with our own. Basically we, over thousands of years converted them to us. So in essence we are them they are us.

"Modern" humans being on Earth for millions of years is an interesting theory. One that I admit I've enjoyed toying with the idea myself from time to time. But what do we find as evidence? Foot Prints and some possible tools. "Neanderthal and Denisovians" both made tools and had feet like ours. Yet they came out of Africa long before modern man. By some estimates as much as 700,000 to 1.4 Millions years before.

Whose to say that those scant amount of evidence are not from a much older line predating us? We haven't found "Millions" of year old "Modern" skeletons yet. Don't get me wrong I'm open minded and would love nothing more for someday to be proven wrong. So where does this leave us? With known human history. But just how accurate is that really?

When I wrote The Destruction of Human History I focused mainly on Human self inflected destruction of our history. This can also include a lost history during and preceding the Ice age melt off and or the flooding of ancient habitable coastlines.

Also I tried to convey that we have a hard enough time keeping the history of the past 2,000 years or so straight. Never mind the preceding 4 to 6 thousand [or more] years before that. I want to know all of it. The Good, The Bad and yes The Ugly. That's who we are. This is how we learn. We have been robbed of some of that past. Our collective human history is full of these types of acts. This is why I'll question modern academia's straight forward arrogance sometimes. There is no way for Academia can know what exactly has been lost. I'm pretty sure there were things that were destroyed that would amaze those who believe strictly in the linear progression of mankind's history.

What I wonder about is not just the "knowledge" saved/copied/reconstructed that was lost but the context of the source material of that knowledge. It is one thing to have an ancient scribe copy the knowledge of any given Document or map. The Scribe during that period wouldn't have the technology to know just how old that document was or it's original source. Sure, copying the information was important but Context of the documents history itself is Key. Let's consider a more modern era of destruction of unapproved information/knowledge by TPTB. NAZI Germany.

I remember having a sinking feeling while in my early years of school while studying that part of Germany's history with the Nazis. Sad. That is a wonderful example of how things can get out of hand even in our supposedly modern world. For those who think that period was a long time ago and isn't relevant to 2011. Keep in mind it was only one, possibly two generations ago. Many are still alive from that period. They themselves remember it as if it was only yesterday. We haven't really advanced all that much from that period. We just simply rely more on a microchips now more so than books.

Which brings us to our modern way of storing data. We could potentially lose our knowledge due to the fact that more and more of it is now being stored digitally in the virtual world. Books/papers rot away or deteriorate in time etc, Magnetic recording devices lose the data due to the tapes losing magnetism etc, Film deteriorates in a few decades. The older recordings due to cellulose degradation etc. Should we go back to imprinting data on stone tablets like Mesopotamia?

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The sad part about that is that many don't realize that there are several "Cradle of Civilization locations" Not just Mesopotamia/Sumerian/Babylonian etc. Which doesn't take away from the loss. All have to certain extents been plundered throughout history and by many people. Could mankind have reached a certain level of advanced technology? Sure, Why not. But would recognize it as such? The entire series is good but this one fired my imagination when I first saw it. This possibly explains how they could have had some level of higher technology without the Bulky Explosive energy we use and have no remnants of our level of technology. I always love this explanation when some ask that if they were so advanced then where are the wires and generators etc?

I think Tesla rediscovered what the Ancients may have already known [wireless electrical transfer etc] which is now lost to us again because of greed. I respect the opinion of the old Egyptian guy especially when he raises his voice and states. "If only people would listen!" I know the feeling and his frustration. For those who haven't seen it yet it is well worth 40+ minutes of your time.

The Pyramid Code: High Level Technology

I'm not going to touch on the various obvious possibilities of suppression of knowledge by Governments like the Chinese [Who refuse to acknowledge the very real history of Caucasians in their history] not to mention what organizations such as the Vatican and others etc have squirreled away. What do we have access to now?

When I wrote How they Built the Great Pyramid of Egypt I took heat from left, right and center. Many seemed upset that I didn't mention Aliens. What I looked at as proof was what was left to us through the remaining physical evidence. What I found was an ancient monument which shows a great amount of wear and tear. Far more than what a simple tomb should show IMHO.

I tried to break down the various known remnant components to the ridiculous. Everything seems to work if we let certain things that may not factor in to the accepted time-frame. Considering that the Ancient Egyptians were obviously way ahead of many of their contemporaries why is it so hard to believe they not only were able to build such large monuments but also had slightly more advanced metallurgy techniques figured out?

Any Iron and [possibly steal] they may have developed would have long since rusted away. [Easily could have happened over 3 to 4 thousand years] Leaving only small fragments. Alloys last much longer. [Bronze from Copper] They had rope. Whats the first thing one would do with it? Tie things up, Then bind things together. Followed by using it to lift and haul. Finally create methods to increase it's functionality - Pulleys etc.

The overriding question in all of this seems to be

"How could humans get dumber over time?"

How did we get dumber?

Not all humans on Earth during that period were able to read hieroglyphs. Remember [then as now] knowledge is power. I'm sure the Egyptian Pharaohs, Priests and Engineers would have kept their knowledge as secretly as possible in order to be able to maintain their power in the eyes of the people as being "gods" or all powerful etc. This would have worked against mankind as a whole. For unless they trained and shared their knowledge it would have been lost forever if they had died out. [In this case that appears to have happened]


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Has human history risen and fallen and knowledge lost? Yes it has. The above image shows a modern African Bushmen. For all practical purposes He and his tribe have changed very little since the stone age. In the past a larger percentage of the Earth's population lived closer to their level of development. Just take a minute and view all that has come and gone. Yet, They still live as they have. Unless somebody has told them I doubt they know man has walked on the moon.

What would happen if the modern world were to be wiped out by a pathogen? He and his tribe being isolated may survive. Would they know how to fix a Car, TV, or a computer? Would they even want to try? I know, it's an overly simplistic example, but it gets the point across. Many still to this day refuse to believe that Humans could build all these great gigantic monuments around the globe. From my understanding of real human history many things were once thought impossible.

A. People would die if a train went faster than 30 miles per hour. [The air would be sucked out]
B. Nothing heavier than air would ever fly.
C. Flying to, landing and returning a man from the moon.
D. Finding and splitting the Atom.
E. Getting myself extracted from my last marriage

Ok so that last one was only in my head but seriously. I'll defend the possible 20 year scenario that has been tossed around abut how long it took to build the great pyramid but who said the Ancient Greek got the time frame right? AND does that really matter? How about 25 years or even 30 years? The Pyramids exist. They didn't just sprout from the ground. Where is the knowledge on how they were built? We have theories and conjecture nothing more.

Many will ask..

"Where are the Ancient aliens in all of this"

I suppose anything is possible. I'm of the belief that some day, someplace, during an excavation there will be some sort of definitive find that will force Academia to rethink this possibility. Sure all we have are tales, figurines, statues and some painting depicting what appears to be "Deities/gods/Aliens" and what not. I agree that isn't proof in and of itself. But when we combine all of it they do hint at an interesting tale of possible contact.

So in the end there were multiple sources for a "Flood" story which to them it flooded out "the entire world" as they knew or understood it all based on a very real events. The ice age melt off. I tried to bring a little humor as well mix the knowledge of multiple fields to bare on the topic in order to make it more interesting. Well I hope you enjoyed my view of the world and our past. It's not a popular stance I know, but one that in time I feel and think will prove itself out.

Time will tell....

One last note: If you have further questions not addressed in this thread chances are I covered them in the linked threads I've provided. Please review them first.



Be safe my friends

Slay

I agree that it is very possible that the human race has been nearly
Brought to extinction several times in the past.
The remaining survivors did what they could do
To keep our race alive and try to keep the memory and the knowledge
Of the past alive as well.
But the knowledge failed to be past on,and we became children again
And started from the beginning again with clues left behind
From our past.

Thanks slayer,great thread.

after reading that you got me to thinking:

1. the strait of gibralter that was once closed off to the attlantic ocean a lush valley that became the mediterraean sea.

atlantis even tho people have claimed it to be found in a myriad of places just might have been there located in the mediterrian valley.

now troy is indeed fact then atlantis would also be fact even those the story of atlantis has been "sexed" up.

the great deluge could be the strait of gibralter finally breaking down and flooding the valley destroying all traces of atlantis and yet the greatest builders of the times came from somewhere.

just a theory war or natural disaster has erased true history and more often than naught its not even close to being like "hollywood"

Awesome work Slayer, filling the missing gaps is always an fascinating endeavor. Without the records of history, all we can do is speculate, but it's fun!
I am still woe'd by Cayce's ability to name some of these cultures, lands and events, with only an 8th grade education. So I still look to his work as a vital part of theses 'fill in' history attempts.

Pardon the digression, but from your other thread about destroying records, I can see how some may think it is valuable to do so and/or vital for controlling the masses, and when I realized how everything was going to digital and disc, I realized how once again a civilizations record could be mostly destroyed, One giant EMP, natural or otherwise, and bam, there goes most records of things. Super floods could do something similar too I suppose, but on a purely conspiratorial note, if there were PTB that endure all time through bloodlines, then yea erasing history would surely help to keep them in power.

spec

ETA: How come over the past couple of years there have been major discoveries of cultures/villages that were going to 'blow the lid' off of history and archeology, only to be never heard about again. I am always amazed because that kind of discovery should be as paramount as walking on the moon, imo.
Examples:

They have always been there. People noticed them before. But no one could remember who made them -- or why? Until just recently, no one even knew how many there were. Now they are everywhere -- thousands -- no, hundreds of thousands of them! And the story they tell is the most important story of humanity. But it's one we might not be prepared to hear.

Something amazing has been discovered in an area of South Africa, about 150 miles inland, west of the port of Maputo. It is the remains of a huge metropolis that measures, in conservative estimates, about 1500 square miles. It's part of an even larger community that is about 10,000 square miles and appears to have been constructed -- are you ready -- from 160,000 to 200,000 BCE!

www.viewzone.com...

"When the archaeological report came out it showed that (life there) had gone back longer than any other recorded place anywhere else in Tasmania, dating back to 40,000 years," Mansell told AFP.

www.physorg.com...

UVic graduate student Genevieve von Petzinger said in an interview yesterday that some patterns and symbols remained in use across the sites for 20,000 years, suggesting that the "creative explosion" occurred tens of thousands of years earlier than previously thought. Her findings were published last week by New Scientist.

www.theglobeandmail.com...
The Great Flood - Sumerian Version

Micheal Cremo - Forbidden Archeology


spec

Dude…don’t you already have enough stars and flags..?

I suppose anything is possible. I'm of the belief that some day, someplace, during an excavation there will be some sort of definitive find that will force Academia to rethink this possibility.

Wouldn’t it be nice if a global paradigm shift occurred because of an archeological find, as opposed to a catastrophe or nuclear accident..?


The way to utopia is through the halls of history, as lessons learned will be the root cause of understanding…





Once again, you impress...now go get me a beer.

Originally posted by facelift
now go get me a beer

Yeah, that actually sounds pretty good right about now.

Wow, what a nice thread and I can't wait to make time for the video. Should be interesting! I hold your views and I understand how you reasoned with logic. It is refreshing and welcomed!

While we have learned some in regards with our Solar System there is so much to discover within our own Planet deep inside the Oceans.

The only way to preserve our history will be through writings in caves as well. It is so weird to think one day we too may just be a "myth".

Again good job and I appreciate a good read!

Mmm a double dose of threads today sweet I think modern man misunderstands what technology is. We tend to get overly complicated to what it is. Some ancient inventions we either cannot figure out or the ingredients are missing. For instance Greek fire some nasty stuff from what records we have depicting it, yet we don't have the actual formula. [ from what I can recall reading] Maybe someone destroyed the formula or it's "recipe" was lost at some point in time. Only recently have we as a species learned that clockworks where being done in antiquity that we didn't think were possible till the past couple of hundred years. Some of the things we forgot could have made some modern advances possible sooner. But either war, disaster or unforseen bad luck took them away and we had to start from scratch again.
In light of what you said earlier Slay about the bushman not being able to repair a car is even more true in a so called modern society. How many of us could build a car from scratch? I am talking fabricate the parts from scratch not piece meal from existing parts. Any kind of world spanning disaster would cut us off from the resources to build almost all of our mid to high tech tools. Then throw in lack of knowledge in general, we would be back to Colonial level living at best.

Ha! I bet Bushman would like a cold one too. I will get you both one!

Bottle or draft?

One thing that has always mystified me is why during the last ice age was North America covered with such a large thick ice sheet and parts of Asia much further north were ice free

Is this a sign that there was a pole shift and the north pole (not the magnetic pole there are two types of pole shift)was at one time in eastern Canada. approximately 55º 04' N 63º40' W

Plus the south pole would have been of shore someplace south of India and in the southern Indian ocean. approximately 55º 04' S 63º40' E

This would have left Merle Bird Land part of antarctica in a subarctic zone like what central Canada is today.
and this area could have supported humans with out any major problems.

Was this a true ice age or just a shift in the pole.
That leads to the next question is climate change happening now or is it something else.

excellent thread SLAYER ... i have never read anything that is more in-tune with how i have cone to view human history ... i agree with essentially every point you made although i would like to see you expand more on Tesla's work because i believe that he either through direct "revelation" or through study understood the lost technology of the past .... btw have you though about crystals and sound combined together as a source of energy and information storage bc i recall quite a few tales of merlin using tonal chants along with crystal staffs to move extremely large objects ... could be myth or could be completely tru ... keep up the good work

wow, great post. and the video was great!

I think that, much as been lost over time.

Star n Flag for the animation you made alone
I wish I could applaude you for the rest
Possibly vice versa too, star n flag for the content and applause for the animation
I don't know

I read half of the thread, i'll read the rest and give more comments

Hey Slayer
I read pt. 1 and 2 but it was a while ago, would like to re-read them before reading the entirety of this one
Can you post part 1 and two in your OP?

Thanks dude
EDIT: I mean the links to the thread
tx

reply to post by SLAYER69


Damn, do you ever shut up

Thanks again for another interesting thread Slayer.
I haven't read all yet, so I have nothing to add to thread for now, except, Keep up the good work.
I'll Be Back to comment later.

Peace

S&F my friend awesome job!!

I'm sure you've heard of Puma Punku in Bolivia, it's quite interesting!

They are arguably the oldest, and most baffling ruins on the face of the Earth. It is hard to imagine how they did not come to be known as one of the wonders of the world like the Great Pyramid. Spectacular in its own right, the Great Pyramid is, yet it pales in comparison to the ruins of Puma Punku in Tiahuanaco, in South America.

The ruins of Puma Punku are one of four structures in the ancient city of Tiahuanaco. The others three structures are; The Akapana Pyramid, the Kalasasaya Platform, and the Subterranean Temple.

Even with modern day technology and information, these structures defy logic, and confound those who seek to solve the mysteries that lie within them. The ruins of Puma Punku are said to be the most fascinating, and most confusing of all.

hubpages.com...



I've read books on this place and it astonishes me!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hi, Slayer69, I have really enjoyed your thread. For me, it causes to come to mind a couple of recurring circles that I go in when I think about how we forgot who we are.

I just grabbed this off of WikiPedia but I am sure you are aware that there is a raging debate out there concerning the meaning of the large hypoglossal canal found in neanderthal...

Neurological evidence for potential speech in neanderthalensis exists in the form of the hypoglossal canal. The canal of neanderthalensis is the same size or larger than in modern humans, which are significantly larger than the canal of australopithecines and modern chimpanzees.

The canal carries the hypoglossal nerve, which controls the muscles of the tongue. This suggests that neanderthalensis had vocal capabilities similar to modern humans.

A research team from the University of California, Berkeley, led by David DeGusta, suggests that the size of the hypoglossal canal is not an indicator of speech. His team's research, which shows no correlation between canal size and speech potential, shows there are a number of extant non-human primates and fossilized australopithecines that have an equal or larger hypoglossal canal.

The WikiPedia article toes the line pretty carefully. I personally agree with other researchers in the field that believe that music and tonal vibration may have been the linguistic strong point of these people rather than what we would term speech.

I also do not think that it is far fetched to believe that these folks, that we consider 'cave people', may have been the actual builders of the Megaliths.

The other thing it makes me think of is something I read somewhere about mankind trying to escape the 'tyranny of history' by allowing for a sort of amnesia to settle in. I am not so sure about that one though.

Anyhow, thanks for the thought provoking thread.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Hey Slayer
I read pt. 1 and 2 but it was a while ago, would like to re-read them before reading the entirety of this one
Can you post part 1 and two in your OP?

Thanks dude

EDIT: I mean the links to the thread
tx

It's like RAGU the spaghetti sauce.
It's in there buddy.

As usual, a lot of thought and effort has gone into your work! I read half and will now read the other half. Thanks!

I have not had time to read this thread, but I will come back when I can. I always enjoy your threads. I want to make sure I can find it later.