There are Two Gods

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare


Not according to Marcion and the idea of Two Gods and Two Testaments, which this thread is about.

reply to post by LightAssassin


Well that explains your name very well. From your other posts, it seems you lean more toward the New Age concept of "We are all gods", which denies the need for Our Heavenly Father, and Jesus Christ Our Lord and Saviour. I think that path will lead to the NWO "Global Goddess Religion" in the long run, but I may be mistaken.

reply to post by burningbelief


Well, I think the one you call Yahweh was the Impostor god, a "demon-lord with god-pretensions", as Bogomil put it, pretending to be the Real God. That's why he did all those horrible things in the Old Testament, which are the complete opposite of the Kind, Compassionate God of the New Testament, taught to us by Jesus Christ, who was crucified by men inspired to do that by the Impostor god.

reply to post by jmdewey60


(and reply to ExistentialNightmare)

I appreciate anyone that would be willing to listen and accept what im saying. Honestly, i only want that the truth be heard rather than be given any compassion; its simply who ive always been. I dont remember ever hearing from you, though. Anyways, many have turned their back since they believe that everything theyve read in the "holy" book is truth. Its a one-sided story of betrayal to our kind (our kind referring to that of demonic status). i never knew that i was different until around 7 years old, and never knew what it truly was until a year or two ago. And remember that when i say that through my life, upon even entering a church, i felt a wave of hate, anger, unseen eyes watching at me, and simply a feeling of being unwelcome. Its a lot to force upon a child, that at the time had no idea what was going on, and even outside the church i was forsaken. I mean no exaggeration when i state that nothing holy was ever there for me, as i have said. Im considering traditional satanism, the religion of what i have explained im my original comment. Its not the demonic/"evil" la-vey satanism, nor is it luciferianism (correct term?). Either way, i worship him as the god of light, knowledge, and truth, as that is what i have been given by this demon, among other things. For the past year, i have been a deist-- basically atheism with a number of tweaks. However, before that, i never truly even called myself a christian. I always thought to just go along with the simple concept of a god, and left it at that. I followed blindly until i recognized christianity as a bandwagon religion if you will. But please, its much easier for me to answer through emails than on here.

reply to post by Tib50


As for you, Tib...
If you read my original comment, you would understand that it has been a part of me since i was a year old. At so young of an age, i wouldnt simply turn to it. I can sometimes converse in my dreams, but its quite subliminal. The demon is connected to me and protects me since im like it was at the time of its life. Consider the obvious reality that demons are thought of as "bad" spirits, just as spirits rise from the dead. I do not know his story, but we are very similar and in many, many ways. Also, please dont ask for examples, as i live an extremely personal life. I truly do wish i could, but my story is somewhat unbearable to look back on, indicating just how forsaken i was and am by the true false-god (sorry if that seemed contradictory).

reply to post by brendenbaine

i only want that the truth be heard rather than be given any compassion;

That's cool and I PM'd my email address. I get the same feeling going to church, then someone will walk up and have this pasted-on smile and say, We are so happy you have come. That is, sometimes. When it does I feel surprised and then think about it for a second and figure that is their job, or something, to say that, but they don't really feel it. I think the spirit is leaving most churches and is replaced more and more by something like the temple when Jesus came to it. There is the building but the spirit is not in it. I mean the true spirit of god and there are many spirits, so beware of those that are just as false as the one you believe you are leaving behind.

Originally posted by wearewatchingyouman
Very interesting thread...

I'm curious as to your opinion on the garden of Eden story...

Is the serpent still the great deciever or do you see him rather as the great liberator sent by the loving heavenly father?

Your question really surprised me, because I have been thinking about just that for a long time now. As far as I can tell, while the Impostor god is rampaging around the Old Testament, ordering his faithful followers to commit murder, rape and genocide, to say nothing of bashing babies heads against rocks and blasting two young men to death for bringing him the wrong incense recipe in the temple, the only bad thing the "serpent" does is tell the truth to Eve, so that she and Adam stop wandering around naked. (Today, it seems nudity is one of the main obsessions of satanic cults.) And for that the serpent is severely punished, by losing all its limbs, apparently. Does the serpent bite or harm anyone in anger for that, during the whole rest of the Bible? I don't think so---it just slips meekly away, doesn't it? And later in history, it is adopted as the symbol of healing, which we still use today in the "Rod of Asclepius". It also turns up in Egyptian pyramid carvings, being used as a bizarre kind of light bulb filament, as if it had radiant energy!

The other thing I was wondering about was the way people involved in the occult use "reverse symbolism", so in the Harry Potter films, for example, all the things that are good and beneficial to mankind are depicted as either harmful or scary. Trees, especially deciduous trees, are entirely beneficial to mankind, yet they are depicted in the film as the scary forest and terrifying "Whomping Willow", while horses are turned into ghostly, skeletal "Thestrals". Since the most evil character of all, Voldemort, is depicted as half serpent, it made me wonder whether true evil, the true form of satan/lucifer, is completely different.

What do you think yourself?

reply to post by brendenbaine


Well, if you read my comment, I did point out that children are often deliberately TARGETTED by demons, because they have the purest, most brightly shining souls, which yield the greatest "Negative Energy Harvest" to demons, if they can be turned towards evil by bad experiences. Research has shown that no one can remember anything earlier than about 3 years of age, so someone else must have told you about your experiences from the age of one.

There are also reports of children deliberately trained by parents and relatives as satanists from infancy, but of course, that's only speculation. You are evidently quite happy in your situation, and have the freedom to choose your own path. I hope one day in the future you may change your mind, as young people often do. Good luck to you, anyway!

reply to post by brendenbaine

At so young of an age, i wouldnt simply turn to it.

My adopted (by me) sister had this problem with her young daughter and she took her to the tribal elders who referred her to the tribe's shamans and had a sort of cleansing of evil spirits ceremony that went on most of the night where they were using (only the shamans) native plant hallucinogens. That fixed the problem. Seems weird and Christians may disapprove, but some times, you just have to think, Whatever works.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by brendenbaine

 

I mean the true spirit of god and there are many spirits, so beware of those that are just as false as the one you believe you are leaving behind.

Well said!

reply to post by Tib50


Yeah, thanks. I wouldnt get rid of him if i could, to be honest. Like i said, i can converse subliminally though my dreams, and thats how i know so much, such as how long ive been "possessed". If anyone knew what hes able to do, well... i would be locked away. Its as if his only purpose is to protect me... But theres something deep inside of me that hes after, that gives him power. He holds a high place in hell, enough to maintain control over me, versus many demons of the darker virtues, and even death himself. If i die, he loses his power. Think of this metaphor: if godzilla was reduced to the size of a mouse, what would happen to it? If that demon lost his power, he may as well be a mouse, ready to be stepped on. So he will do anything, including kill my closest friends to keep me from harm

reply to post by bogomil


Bogomil, I'd like to respond to some interesting points you made in your comments, but I'm still thinking about it! I like to take time to think about everybody's comments here, because I really appreciate them.

Originally posted by Tib50
reply to post by bogomil

 

Bogomil, I'd like to respond to some interesting points you made in your comments, but I'm still thinking about it! I like to take time to think about everybody's comments here, because I really appreciate them.

Thanks, I appreciate both the will to answer and taking the time to consider the answer. If it takes a few days, no problems, but in any case please feel free to send me a U2U, so I'm sure not to miss it.

I have respect for authors, who go beyond a superficial level in their postings, so a well-considered post deserves attention.

Greetings

Bogo

reply to post by PuterMan


Sure. A non-Christian can teach about Christian doctrine...and he can do so as well as I could teach surgery after reading a textbook about surgery.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Tib50

 

Does this "evil impostor God" have a name? I don't remember hearing about him in church.

Thats easy its........ Yahweh.........or is it...........Jehova...........or is it..........Adonai..........or is it..........El Shaddai.
Damn it!! If the 'God'(s) of the old testament didn't have so many names it would be easier.
Or maybe it was all of them!!

reply to post by TattooedWarrior


Zeus, Odin and Thor are impostors too.

Likewise is the flying spagetti monster.

reply to post by Tib50


I too have been trying to figure this one out... as of now I have no solid opinion one way or the other, but as you stated all he did was tell the truth in the Genesis story... I am completely at a loss as to how he got the nickname the "father of the lie" based on this story... and the head of the Elohim was certainly the one who looks like the bad guy here... I am left in confusion...

The head of the Elohim is the one who lied...

Gen. 2:17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

pretty sure they didn't die when they ate from it... other translations use "the day you eat it"

On the other hand the serpent told eve

Gen.3: 4 “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

This is exactly what happened... as the head of the Elohim stated later

22 And the LORD God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

and then of course there was all the punishments for not obeying in between there...

an interesting thing about the punishment of the serpent has jumped out at me lately..

“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.

This to me implies that prior to this the serpent didn't crawl on it's belly... i.e it flew or walked... which to me sounds like a dragon... which leads me to think about the dragon in Revelation..

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

so obviously the punishment didn't last all the days of his life... as he certainly isn't crawling on his belly and eating dust in revelation...

I don't think any of this is meant to be taken literally, but I'm struggling with the correlations and obvious contradictions with the "accepted" interpretations of the account...

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by bogomil

 

Here are some answers I've been thinking about to the points you made earlier:
1)
Quote "Unlike Gnostics and Marcionites, I do not believe that the same evil entity responsible for the sickening depravity of satanism was also responsible for creating all the glorious beauty of the natural world. As Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ said, "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

You said: "If you can avoid being too 'preachy', I'm interested in further details."

---Both Gnostics and Marcionites believed the Old Testament Impostor god was the "Creator god", the "demi-urge" who created all life forms on Earth, and for that reason we should reject the natural world and strive to reach the higher spiritual plane where the Real God, the New Testament God, is. It seems impossible to me that the demi-urge, the Evil Impostor god, created anything---only that he tinkered with creation, tried to ruin and despoil it, or interfered with it in some way, as you said:
" But at least concerning 'creation' itself (and especially in a context of the Christian genesis cosmogony) it's clear that Jahveh isn't a 'creator-god', and that someone/something has messed creation up or interfered with it."

Far from rejecting the glorious beauty of creation evident all around us in the life forms on Earth, surely we should celebrate it, and give the credit where it is due: to Our Heavenly Father.


2)
Quote: " Though none of us can honestly claim to know the whole situation, does it not seem far more likely to you that all this beauty was created by the good, compassionate, joyful God and his assistants,...."

You said: "Try to point out the esthetic aspect to any sentient being, who's in the process of being food for something else, and I'm sure that this is not what comes first to mind (or just overshadows the physical pain). It's a bit to romantically abstract for me."

---You are quite right, and the answer may be that this in itself is more evidence of the Old Testament Impostor god's ruining, despoiling and interfering with the New Testament God's creation. One suggestion has been that all this unfortunate necessity for eating other life forms, killing them and consuming their energy in order to survive, is caused by our being dragged down to a lower energy level than we were originally. Whereas before, all life forms had sufficient energy in themselves and no need to kill or eat anything, now we are all deficient. It seems a very interesting possibility to me.


3)
Quote: "....as a kind of lovely Garden of Eden where spiritual beings could take physical form, but all their joyful work was constantly ruined and undermined by an evil being, responsible for all the ugliness and suffering?"

You said: "Again this needs some clarification on a 'deeper' background. The idea of 'spiritual' beings who need physical existence to learn, grow, entertain themselves strikes me as speculative as most other religious ideas."

---I don't think it's a question of spiritual beings "needing" physical existence to learn, grow, etc. It's rather like the difference between looking at a photo of the Wye Valley and actually walking through the woods and meadows beside the river. The difference between spending your whole life inside a submarine or indoors or underground, from house to car to work to subway to shopping malls to restaurants to house, to whizzing down the Alps on skis. It seems more like something spiritual beings CHOOSE to do, rather than NEED to do. It also seems related to the idea of Joy: the Real God as a Joyful God.

reply to post by bogomil


Since you mentioned earlier that lucifer and satan were not the same entity, I wonder if you would mind explaining that further.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by Tib50

 

I make these points in a seperate post, so as not to confuse the flow.

Have you as pro-NT, ever considered the implications of Melchizedek suddenly turning up again, sanctioning Paulus (admittedly only on Paulus' own words).

There's something VERY fishy about that, which fits badly with the 'softer' Jesus-movement interpretations.

I'm no expert, but the few things I've read concerning Melchizedek make me think there is something very strange about him, and none of the many explanations seem very satisfactory to me. A mystery.