There are Two Gods

reply to post by ExistentialNightmare


I don't think "hellfire" was mentioned as a "threat" against unbelievers, but rather just as a statement of fact as to the normal dwelling place of the Impostor god, where his followers would necessarily have to stay. All the boasts, threats, rapes, genocide and bashing of babies heads against rocks were the recommendations of the Impostor god of the Old Testament, if I am not mistaken.

Originally posted by Tib50
reply to post by bogomil

 

I think your phrase "the demon-lord with god-pretensions" is an excellent way to describe the Impostor god of the Old Testament.

I can't deny a certain provocative element in that formulation, but it IS actually not so far from how I consider the situation.

Though it complicates matters to have to sort out whether Jahveh only is a fictive character in a propaganda manifest, or a factually existing non-human entity (believing in non-human species of higher complexity isn't strange to my ideas. Not least because I've met some myself, but that's another story for the spooky or metaphysical subforums).

reply to post by darbur


I hope you will have the courage to say the same amusing things to Muslims. I've noticed that "atheists" are very bold in confronting Christians, but completely avoid confronting Muslims. Why is that, I wonder?

reply to post by Tib50


I make these points in a seperate post, so as not to confuse the flow.

Have you as pro-NT, ever considered the implications of Melchizedek suddenly turning up again, sanctioning Paulus (admittedly only on Paulus' own words).

There's something VERY fishy about that, which fits badly with the 'softer' Jesus-movement interpretations.

Originally posted by Tib50
reply to post by darbur

 

I hope you will have the courage to say the same amusing things to Muslims. I've noticed that "atheists" are very bold in confronting Christians, but completely avoid confronting Muslims. Why is that, I wonder?

A reasonable explanation is, that we see very few jihad preachers on ATS, whereas there is no shortage of 'gods soldiers'.

But as an european I can assure you, that radical muslims don't have an easy time here just now. It's almost getting a bit to much sometimes, with our local very active anti-muslim groups, who aren't very discrimination between moderate and radical muslims.

reply to post by RealAmericanPatriot


Well now to address your accusation of "anti-semitism"! You couldn't be more wrong, but your reaction is understandable.

First of all, Bogomil is right to point out that this idea is nearly 2000 years old, and originates with Marcion of Sinope, who wrote the very first "canon" of the Bible around 140 AD, inspiring the Church to write its own. He was trying to make a clear separation between Christianity and Judaism, and rejected all connections between the Old and New Testaments, not because of "anti-semitism", but because he believed Christianity completely replaced it.

Secondly, far from being "anti-semitic", it seems to me that the Impostor god of the Old Testament fooled us all into believing he was the Real God, and it seems that he treated his most faithful followers the worst of all. They did everything he wanted, but still were dealt the harshest punishments for the smallest mistakes, and far from being showered with rewards and prosperity, were hounded and herded around the Near Eastern lands on the verge of starvation half the time, enslaved and imprisoned, never being allowed to settle anywhere unless they agreed to kill off whole populations, burn their crops and take their lands, following his commands. And somehow most of their menfolk were killed off in the terrible desert wanderings, leaving mostly women with children. When he ordered Moses to hand over authority to his brother Aaron and die on the mountaintop, did all the Jewish people rejoice that Moses was joining God in Heaven? No, they wept and lamented. And later, when Aaron was suddenly ordered to strip naked on a mountaintop, hand over his clothes to his son, and die, did the people rejoice that he was joining God in Heaven? What really happened on those mountaintops, I wonder? Why did all the people weep and lament, I wonder? And why did no one really want to be the next "leader"?

And throughout subsequent history, how have the chosen people fared? Barely surviving the horrors of the Holocaust, they worked hard to build up their tiny new nation of Israel and live in peace with their neighbours, but not a moment's peace have they known, under constant threat of extinction from the Pagan Moon God Death Cult, which also seems to follow the Impostor god. No, like the rest of us, both Jewish and Christian people have been tricked and fooled by the Impostor god, in my opinion.

reply to post by dontlaughthink


Your comment seems like a stock answer to every Christian post, which means you don't need to read the posts at all. I wonder if you say the same things to Muslims, or only to Christians?

reply to post by spyder550


Yes, "made-up stuff" like the scientific "fact" that the Sun is hot. According to some scientists, the Sun is NOT hot at all, which is why we don't get hotter the higher we climb up the mountains, closer to the Sun. Apparently, the warmth of the Sun we feel on our faces is just the interaction of the Sun with our Earth's atmosphere. Amazing, isn't it?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Tib50

 

Balkan Gnostics

Seems to me that the only good religions that lasted any considerable amount of time was in places that could be defended by a small force against larger armies.

Now that's a very good point. I can't help but think of the terrible sufferings of the Balkan peoples crushed under the jackboot of the Ottoman Empire, who exacted tribute from them in both money and "devshirme", forcing each family to hand over their strongest, brightest sons to the Muslims, who kidnapped, forcibly circumcised, raped and trained them as "janissaries" to serve the caliphs, and they were never allowed to see their families again.

reply to post by OptimusSubprime

Does this "evil impostor God" have a name? I don't remember hearing about him in church

Yeah, it's Yaldabaoth...

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by jmdewey60

The so-called Gnostics had to be eliminated to further the reign of the Prince of This World.

I am catching up on the posts, but in the meanwhile, I could not have said this better myself. Why did I get to page 2 and no one thinks to bring up the so called Gnostics?

Be there shortly.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Seems to me that the only good religions that lasted any considerable amount of time was in places that could be defended by a small force against larger armies.

Like Montserrat

en.wikipedia.org...

Still catching up...

All caught up.

reply to post by Tib50

There is one God. God is neither good nor bad, it is both. It has no human traits. It always imposes equilibrium even when we can't distinguish it ourselves, there always is equilibrium.

Originally posted by Tib50
reply to post by ExistentialNightmare

 

I don't think "hellfire" was mentioned as a "threat" against unbelievers, but rather just as a statement of fact as to the normal dwelling place of the Impostor god, where his followers would necessarily have to stay. All the boasts, threats, rapes, genocide and bashing of babies heads against rocks were the recommendations of the Impostor god of the Old Testament, if I am not mistaken.

"Impostor" in what way? Where did you learn this?

Jesus (of the New Testament) fully condones Mosaic law, and the prophecies posed in the Old Testament.

Matthew 5:17

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Jesus fully approved of the law of the Old Testament.

Very interesting thread...

I'm curious as to your opinion on the garden of Eden story...

Is the serpent still the great deciever or do you see him rather as the great liberator sent by the loving heavenly father?

reply to post by Tib50


Ok, so which God is the right God, and what church it the right church to pay omage to the right God? Hmmm... Pretty confused on this one. Seeing especially that the new Testament God was the favored God during the Crusades, the Inquisition, and let's get modern, the Child raping that has gone on in churches, the cadillac, mercedes driving ministers that take your money while the poor of the church starve? Let's face it, George Carlin, may he rest and laugh in peace, states what is a religous war, a fight over whose imaginary friend is stronger.

Two 'Gods"???

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

1 John 2:15 KJV

They (ed: The Pharisees) said to him: We were not bred from promiscuity. We have one father, God.

Jesus said to them: If God were your father, you would love me, since I issue from God and come from God; for I did not come on my own account, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? Because you are not able to listen to my reasoning.

The father you come from is the devil and you wish to do your father’s will. He has been a man killer from the beginning, and he does not stand upon the truth because there is no truth in him.

When such a one speaks his lie he speaks from what is his own, because he is a liar and so is his father. And because I speak the truth you do not believe in me.

John. Roughly 8.32-49. Richmond Lattimore translation directly from Greek. 1979.

Gee, I don't know why anyone would ever get that impression.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by Tib50

 

Yes, thats nice, thankyou for your opinion. I will sit back and watch them swarm.

And given this is your belief, I will give you mine.

I believe in The Creation and God. God is one with The Creation, and we are one with God, therefore we are one with The Creation.

There is the God that gave birth to us as a species, and that is inside every single one of us, but The Creation is Light, it has created this Multi Verse, and holds it together.

God has provided us with the facility to nurture our spirits, to perfect them, over and over and over.

The God people blame for the atrocities of Human is the same God that gave them the free will to create music, draw art, and live in harmony and wander the once beautiful world. It is Humans choice to do these things. Only we are accountable for our actions. Not God or whoever it is you believe in.

edit on 6-7-2011 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

Yup people need to stop blaming God for bad things going wrong in their life or life in general because if he interfered with our lives we wouldnt be free

reply to post by Evanzsayz

Yup people need to stop blaming God for bad things going wrong in their life or life in general because if he interfered with our lives we wouldnt be free

I think it's more a concern for religions who claim their particular God is correct; and the Problem of Evil proposed by Philosopher Epicurus (circa A.D 33)

Or perhaps the Euthyphro dilemma posed by Socrates:-

"Is the pious (τὸ ὅσιον) loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

Or simply put : "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?"

if he interfered with our lives we wouldnt be free

And if he hadn't sent a (great) flood, many animals would not be extinct. But of course, you'd have to be foolish to believe that geological events are dictated at the will of a deity. Because you'd have to explain hurricanes, earthquakes............ especially in religious areas; you'd expect God to protect the pious.

reply to post by Tib50


I agree with you on the double-nature of the Christian bible. When I studied Buddhism I came across the term "teaching by expedient means". Sometimes the teacher cannot reveal all his knowledge at once, for the masses are not ready for it. The first historical Buddha taught for 40 years that women were not equal to men only to later reverse his teachings. He was obviously morally wrong, but historically correct ... The concept of equality of the sexes was so foreign at the time, that the Buddha would have lost all of his credibility at the very begining of his long journey. Therefore he needed to pace himself and introduce the more advanced concepts towards the end of his lifetime.

Try to read the bible in that context, and some things will make more sense. We desperately need an update to our current version of the bible ...