ATS Reality: CoIntelPro, Shills, Freemasons, and Socks: The Definitive Guide

Originally posted by Pimander

My suggestion is more in line with trying to be more open about why a thread is removed. Leave the thread there and remove anything that may cause serious violations. I know sometimes it might involve a bit of editing by the mods but don't you think it would be worth it?

At many THOUSANDS of posts a day and many DOZENS of spam/nonT&C Posts a day that seems unlikely.

There is a better alternative: Just post whatever you think has been "suppressed", adhere to the T&C and then see if its removed or not. Chances are 100% that it will stay.

If in any case you doubt that contact me or another Mod to check the situation.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
There is a better alternative: Just post whatever you think has been "suppressed", adhere to the T&C and then see if its removed or not. Chances are 100% that it will stay.

I don't think anything is being suppressed that way. I'm trying to suggest a way of being more open. It only needs doing in threads that are removed. Surely there can't be that many?

Originally posted by Pimander

Unless your name is Steven Greer?

I'm not defending him. However sometimes strange things can happen on here - moving everything by a person to hoax is one. Some things they say might be true after all which means that some non-hoaxes can end up in hoax. That is not denying ignorance it is promoting it. Just saying...

I have no clue what the background of this is (with thousands of things happening every day here one cannot see everything), but that would be a prime example of you either

a) Filing a Complaint to protest the action
b) Or contact a Mod to request Information

The third route is to make grand accusations of conspiracies and cover-ups against the people maintaining the site.

Some of the Decisions made by staff are obviously controversial or unpopular...such as moving certain threads to the Hoax-Forum. In my experience, before something gets moved there, it gets scrutinized again and again by many heads. But even if a mistake was made, it is always more effective to politely protest the action than to go into Ranting mode.

reply to post by Pimander


Again, and as a final word: If you think something is being suppressed, why dont you post it. As long as it adheres to the T&C (which includes not calling out other ATS members or making threads about other members or past members), it will stay public, period. There is nothing complex or mysterious about that.

YOUR own thread that called out ATS stayed up because it adhered to the T&C and was not a repetition (duplicate) of countless other threads calling out ATS but providing a new angle. That should give you a clue that this stuff stays up.

reply to post by Skyfloating

Don't worry about the Greer thing. Long story and this isn't really the thread for it.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Again, and as a final word: If you think something is being suppressed, why dont you post it.

I just said I don't think that is happening! How many times have I actually made that clear? Any suppression of the material I post about is by members not staff. As you know, I have put ATS to the test and there was no staff suppression.

My point was that I do think that ATS staff could be more open about why threads are removed. If it only involved some editing where there is already moderator attention would it really be too much more work?

I wasn't, "ranting," either. I just replied to your posts quickly.

Thanks for replying, Skyfloating. I am aware how much hard work goes into moderating this site.

Originally posted by Pimander


My point was that I do think that ATS staff could be more open about why threads are removed. If it only involved some editing where there is already moderator attention would it really be too much more work?

I dont know how other Mods feel about this, but I am not motivated to invest that much time in garbage. Recently I removed a Spammer who was posting one thread after another about the shoes he was selling. That neither being relevant to ATSers, nor to me, nor to Staff nor an adherence to the T&C the person agreed to when signing up, why should I invest time into explaining why his threads were removed or leave them up for the public to view? And what utter mess the "Recent Posts" page would be after only one day of this.

I think I prefer my ATS clean of clutter and garbage.

If you want "openness", just drop us a message if you have any question and we`ll try to find the time to address it.

reply to post by Pimander


The greatest threat to ATS is not Government Shills but marketing- and advertisement spammers.

Originally posted by Phenomium
I have had at least 20 threads removed that discussed feminism from a man's point of view. Associated with the post or not...the thread get's removed.

You're lying. There are no removed threads in the trash that have been authored by you.

Originally posted by ateuprto
So let me get this straight skeptic.

Your site has filled with so many misinformed, negligent and egotistical numbskulls that you were forced to make a long-winded post basically reminding people that rationality and discernment are valuable and respected traits?

Which thread are you referring to? What you're describing as nothing to do with this thread.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
I remember some guy claims he has a free energy device and he plans to reveal it. He claims ATS has been censoring him ect. And there is no T&C violation and there is no personal information posted and the thread is 404'ed without explanation.

So, because you don't know WHY a thread was removed from the public forums, you automatically assume some form of censorship, rather than some T&C violation of which you're not aware?

There were several T&C violations in that case, many of which were quickly closed and few members saw.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Hello all, & Skeptic Overlord. Let me start by saying that while this is my first post, ive been a "lingerer" on ATS for quite some time. Like most i'm sure, i bounce back & fourth between here & GLP. I felt prompted to post because i sincerely think ATS & some others have underestimated the ability & intentions of ANY Government leadership. While I take you at your word SkeptikO & i think you're intentions are legit. But with all do respect, i think maybe you may have a bit of tunnel vision. Sometimes people get so focused on something (running ATS), and deal with so much information that they take their eye off the ball. I don't blame you at all and it's understandable. But sometimes when people are so enamored in a situation or project that they start to miss some details along the way, or lose perspective that maybe only an outsider would see.

For example, do a search online for "US Government spreads propaganda online" & you'll see what i mean. Or copy paste this link (sorry i don't know how to insert the link)
www.dailymail.co.uk...

Now with that information in mind i would like to refer to what you stated in your OP, about not knowing who is a shill or not. This is true, sure you can have a hunch, & i would advise anyone to always go with your intuition. That being said to all fellow ATS users...Is it really necessary to make threads about the obvious?
Any intelligent person knows shills are out there & yes, in here as well. But any reasonable person also knows there isn't much that can currently be done about it. So making threads about it doesn't benefit anyone, & only puts an unnecessary burden on moderators. I think we all agree it's healthy to question everything & be skeptical, but we can use common sense too.

I think if people are truly concerned about shills they should make a serious thread about common sense solutions that might help solve the problem, without isolating potentially legit users or destroying the freedom of speech & ideas ATS stands for. As of now i have no clue how to do that, so i guess ill let SkepticO do his job.

I know this site has it's problems with shills, so does GLP & every other open forum site currently. But this is still one of the best/last true places for true freedom of speech. Currently one of GLP's top staff (Trinity) is talking about selling off GLP & "moving on" due to this very problem. That would be pretty sad if, or when it happens. So don't take sites like this or its dedicated staff for granted, because there are few like it.

Thank you all ATS users who contribute to the site, you are as important to this site as the staff & i enjoy reading your ideas, that is all.

Originally posted by nerbot
Yet so many times we read a new thread asking what happened to a deleted thread only to be told the O.P. has been notified of the reason and no explanation is offered to anyone else who asks. This is not transparency but cloaking.

Doing so would only open things up to a distracting and pointless debate. There is no opportunity for debate, and we've been consistently very clear as to the reasons threads are removed.

Originally posted by TheUniverse
Doesn't matter how many time Skeptic or any of the other Amigos, Mods,Super-Mods or any member claims that ATS isn't COINTELPRO, CIA or Alphabet Soup Agencies

We can never know for sure unless we were actually the owners of the site.(All we can do is take their word for it)

Anyone who denies the possibility of ATS being COINTELPRO etc is just being short-sighted and ignorant.

So if you're unable to accept the word of ATS owners and staff that this site isn't some "CoIntelPro" operation, how is that you feel comfortable enough to stay and post -- knowing that potential counter intelligence operatives would have access to your information and private messages?

Originally posted by nerbot
Yet so many times we read a new thread asking what happened to a deleted thread only to be told the O.P. has been notified of the reason and no explanation is offered to anyone else who asks. This is not transparency but cloaking. I understand the reasoning behind these actions but it would save so many unneeded threads of questioning by those who all too frequently encounter "404's" and need some kind of closure to the frustration. Contacting the O.P. is not always an option if the thread is gone.

No, but sending an U2U to any of the staff is always an option. Instead of creating more forum threads, send us a message, or file a complaint. We'll answer it. It may not be as fast a response as you might like, but we'll respond.

Some here would then say you became a freemason because of your status as a moderator and a possible recruit to a cause.

Works both ways.

Touche. I counter by stating that it was the general comradery of the ATS membership that helped in my decision to become a Freemason. Believe it or not, that's a Masonic value.

Except if someone would like to know why a thread was deleted.

The time and respect to give a brief explanation to a member/s concerning a dissappeared thread must surely outway the time taken to moderate, close and delete an enquiring thread concerning a "404"?

Again, that's what the U2U and complaint features are for.

As far as freemasons and this site goes, I would only be concerned if the percentage of mods who were became an obvious factor. What is the percentage BTW? .... RSVP

A very VERY small minority.

In this place, clarity is sometimes like a diamond in the sand. Great to see but hard to find.

But, just like any diamond, when found it is culled from the sand and polished to become the brilliant gem that all would want to see. Such is what ATS is for me. It's an ever-evolving media center, with the added bonus of having some of the brightest minds on Earth as members here. For me, ATS is that diamond that was plucked from the sand. It will continue to evolve, and hopefully become what can only be seen as the first and last stop for the unbiased truth. There are many more evolutions to go though. True perfection is unattainable, but we can try can't we?!?!?

TheBorg
Forum Member and Moderator

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

The Ego of Conspiracy Theorists

Ever since the concept of a "conspiracy theorist" entered the lexicon, those who embrace the title often adopt an attitude that their theories are so compelling and dangerous to "the government" that "THEY" must be interested. While that's certainly possible, the sheer volume of conspiracy speculation on the Internet today makes it improbable... or at the least, very rare. This is in no way a statement that one's conspiracy speculation may be wrong, just that there are finite resources available to "THEM" for identifying and potentially monitoring a conspiracy theorist posting in the Internet.


Someone Who Disagrees Is Not Always a Shill

Following the above, passionate conspiracy theorists often fall into the narrow-thinking trap that those who don't share their opinion must be a shill sent to discredit. We see this quite a bit on ATS, and it's often very disheartening to see. The realm of conspiracies is just like anything else, a difference of opinion is most often just that and nothing more.

ATS has grown a great deal, and while our roots may be in the speculation of conspiracies and cover ups, today we are much more of a destination for people concerned about the "full story" behind recent and current events. More and more people are aware that the mainstream news is not telling them everything, and in some cases telling them lies. Sites like ATS are a place to parse through the additional information not covered by the mainstream so that people may come to better-informed conclusions. Many of these people will not be conspiracy theorists and may disagree with conspiracy theories -- but they're not shills, instead they are ordinary folk just beginning to become aware that things are not as they seem.

Best two paragraphs ever!!!!

Its so true. Just because I dont agree with chemtrails does not make me a shill. Im a weatherman, I know about the upper weather which is why I always argue the point.

Anyone that uses that argument instead of discussing the point, is simply a MORON

Originally posted by TheUniverse

Anyone who denies the possibility of ATS being COINTELPRO etc is just being short-sighted and ignorant.

There's that arrogance SO was talking about in his opening post.

You have serious issues, and it makes me wonder why you are still here if you are "so" convinced that the staff "could" be COINTELPRO...serious, get over it. Its got to the point where your just being immature.....plenty of other websites run by complete nutjobs where this type of crap is allowed, but stop polluting every thread you go on with the same stupid allegations

Okay, I completely agree with your sentiment that the users here on ats shouldn't be constantly accusing the people who run the site of being paid disinfo agents. I love this website, and I'm extremely grateful to the people that run it, but the fact that I enjoy this site doesn't just erase the possibility that there could very well be disinformation agents operating on ats. Anyone who can't at least admit that there's a possibility is being closed-minded. There's no way that anyone can be 100 percent sure that there are no paid gov't shills operating on this site, just as there's no way that I could 100 percent sure that there are, but you should at least acknowledge the possibility. You can't act as if programs like cointelpro just don't exist.

Originally posted by kaiode1
You can't act as if programs like cointelpro just don't exist.

edit on 6-7-2011 by kaiode1 because: (no reason given)

Oh, most certainly. One of the largest provable conspiracies relates to the FBI's CoIntelPro operation in Los Angeles, and their collaboration with the CIA in Nicaragua. The program literally armed the LA gangs and initiated the gang wars, while funneling coc aine from the CIA into the streets.


However, I AM surprised no one, in this entire thread, has mentioned one of the most obvious explanations for what's going on:
Those who are spreading the lies about ATS collaboration with government disinformation, intelligence, and counter-intelligence operations/agencies are paid government disinfo agents spreading lies about the Internet's most-popular and information-dense resource on conspiracies and government malfeasance in an effort to keep truth-seekers away.

Well .... after reading through it appears for some that paranoia trumps genuine people trying to help our society be more aware.

Even though I have had frustrations on this site I have to say it is one of the best and most informative sites on the web.

Kudos to the owners for caring enough to constantly develop this site in the interest of the Users.

IMO... we are lucky to have people like SO overseeing this site.

First off, I find it telling that none of 'the boys' have chimed in regarding the shill issue. Secondly, I've changed my mind regarding their input about 9/11. Initially, I was convinced that the mods were favoring the whole bunch, but now I've come to realize that even if that were true, it still wouldn't be enough to sway any newcomer to their side. All they have to do is state their case, and I know that ANYONE that looks at the events of that day with an open mind has to admit that there is a cover-up. The mods have a tough job, but sometimes I wish they'd let me say what's on my mind, especially in the heat of battle. I do find it remarkable that this group of shills of which I speak, are rarely censored. Remarkable, because it only serves to further prove their guilt. Their 'supervisors' don't like it when they get their posts removed.