What muslims really think about Terrorism, Democracy and the West

Originally posted by phatpackage

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
And what about muslims in America?

People always conveniently leave us out of the discussion because the majority of us here denounce terrorism and violence of any kind.


Spoken by a muslim.

As long as you denounce the terrorist groups mentioned in the OP, denounce suicide bombings as wrong in any circumstance and respect others right to practice whatever fake religion they are into I care not what religion you practice and would strongly condemn any wrongful assumptions on you! it just sounds like you have been the victim of wrongful discrimination.


What many on ATS don't understand is the "West", Israel or Moderate Muslims are not the real enemy here. The enemy is "Extreme" Islam"! They can sugar coat it and argue all they want but deep down they know the truth! These extremists hate everyone who does not believe what they believe in! period. They try to justify the extremist Muslim hatred and disgusting terrorist actions with "oh its the US foreign policy" or "israel ..... ra ra ra ra ra". Total rubbish.If those things had never happened they would still hate us. Even the moderate Muslims are a form of infidel to them!

To all the ATS terrorist sympathisers, go live in these countries and see how much these extremists love you! Go on join the enemy with the hatred they started!

edit on 28-6-2011 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)

As long as you denounce america terrorists groups, denounce bombings of cities and mass murders of the middle east people...you want to know the real terrorists, turn on your tv and watch there right under your nose. Maybe they wouldnt hate us and they wouldnt be extremeists that wanted to hurt the usa if you guys stopped killing their people

Originally posted by Maslo

Egypt, Jordan and Pakistan, that is 3 countries where it is high, up to around 80 %.

I missed that. Just re-checked. You're right.

reply to post by Evanzsayz


Sooner or later an all out war will start...you keep slapping a dog in the face sooner or later hes goin to attack you

reply to post by Skyfloating


The Pew report in 2006 found that

81% of British Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and British second.

Only 7% thought of themself as British first.

69% of Spanish Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and Spanish second.

Only 3% though of themself as Spanish first.

66% of German Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and German second.

Only 13% thought of themself as German first.

46% of French Muslims thought of themselves as Muslims first and French second.

42% thought of themself as French first.

pewglobal.org... worry-about-islamic-extremism/

reply to post by Skyfloating


Pew Poll on Pakistani Public Opinion

83% of Pakistani Muslims support stoning adulterers

80% Support the cutting of hands of thieves

78% of Pakistani Muslims support the death penalty for leaving Islam

pewglobal.org...

The UK has about 1 million Pakistani Muslims.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Good information.

Some of the stats are eye openers for country like Pakistan.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Survey on what British Muslim students believe.

40% want Sharia law introduced into British Law for Muslims.

33% want the introduction of a worldwide Caliph, while 25% are opposed. 41% are not sure.

59% felt it was important that women wear the hijab but only 31% felt a women should be forced to wear one.

40% felt than men and women should not be allowed to associate freely together, while 12% were not sure.

32% felt it could be justifiable to kill in the name of religion.

57% fell that Muslims serving on the UK armed forces should have the right to opt out if the British army is fighting in a Muslim country.

16% felt the punishment that Gillian Gibbons received (the British teacher in Sudan who was sent to prison for 15 days after naming a teddy-bear ‘Mohammed’) was just right or not harsh enough. 19% were not sure.

YouGov Poll

reply to post by ollncasino


Thanks for the stats.

Ae know Pakistani muslims are harder in their views. Thats why its good to include places like Lebanon or Qatar to get a wider pictures of things. Otherwise people will think the Pakistani stance reflects the overall stance of muslims.

The English dont sound good. I once heard a lot of muslim immigrants to England are from Pakistan, whereas muslim immigrants to France tend to be from North Africa, etc. Maybe that makes for the difference.

It doesnt surprise me that Pakistan probably knowingly harboured Osama bin Laden.

reply to post by Skyfloating


When 500 British Muslims were interviewed, none believed that homosexual acts were acceptable.

Also worrying, only 3% of UK Muslims believed that sex between unmarried people was acceptable.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Muhammad made it clear that the penalty for homosexuality was death.

www.usc.edu...

Here is a video apparently showing 5 suspected homosexuals being hung in Pakistan.

www.mentalzero.com...

The Koran is clear that sex between unmarried people is prohibited.

www.usc.edu...
www.usc.edu...

The penalty for fornicating outside marriage is 100 lashes.

www.usc.edu...

reply to post by ollncasino


Those stats are certainly eye-openers.

Am I correct in assuming you are not going to post any stats on Moderates?

reply to post by Skyfloating


"Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life, a government.

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well.

Here's how it works:

- As long as the Muslim population remains under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens.

- At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

- From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply.

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish sharia law over the entire world.

- When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. ...car burnings, uprisings, threats. [They also begin seizing control of whole streets by mass prayer 5 times a day, as is happening now in France]

- After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues.

- At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare.

- From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of nonbelievers of all other religions (including nonconforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels.

- After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim.

- 100% will usher in the peace of “Dar-es-Salaam” — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen & Saudi Arabia, where Holy Christian Bibles are regularly confiscated and burned.

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by sharia law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.

Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But because each Muslim man is permitted 4 wives, their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century."

(Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book, "Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat")

reply to post by Skyfloating


Sadly, it is an aspect of Islam that the Koran and Hadiths require Islam to dominate not only religiously but also politically.

Violence, under Islamic doctrine (in terms of the Koran and hadiths), is a perfectly legitimate tactic to achieve that dominance.

The spread of Islam is associated with the spread of religious violence, as a matter of fact.

Islam is not just another religion.

reply to post by Skyfloating


What these statistics ignore is the fact that all Muslims are encouraged to practice "taqiyya" deception, which includes every type of lying, tricks and deceit, even pretending to convert to another religion, in order to further the establishment of the Global Caliphate. It is the RELIGIOUS DUTY of EVERY MUSLIM to establish the Global Caliphate and crush all non-Muslims under the jackboot of Islam.

Please take time to read more about the actual beliefs of Muslims, and you will discover that there is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim"---only Muslims PRETENDING to be moderate in order to squeeze more money out of the infidel countries, until the Muslim numbers are sufficiently high to take over the country.

"Everything You Need to Know About Islam" is a good place to start:

crombouke.blogspot.com...


Then there is:

The Religion of Peace.com www.thereligionofpeace.com...

Jihad Watch www.jihadwatch.org...

The Gates of Vienna gatesofvienna.blogspot.com...

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Those stats are certainly eye-openers.

Am I correct in assuming you are not going to post any stats on Moderates?

Would that be the 0% of British Muslims polled who don't disapprove of homosexuality (penalty being death according to the Koran), or the 3% who don't dissaprove of sex outside marriage (penalty 100 lashes) .

Note however that many Muslim men groom underage UK girls and have sex with them. Its a big scandal at the moment in the UK.

Under Islam they have done nothing wrong. They are having sex with non-Muslim girls.

It's scary stuff.

reply to post by Tib50


Yea, I went crazy when I found out there were 3 other muslim families in my apartment complex.. We all got together and went door to door telling the non-muslims they had 24 hours to pack up and move or face death for homosexuality, and fornication......

/sarcasm

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by ollncasino

 

Those stats are certainly eye-openers.

Am I correct in assuming you are not going to post any stats on Moderates?

Would that be the 0% of British Muslims polled who don't disapprove of homosexuality (penalty being death according to the Koran), or the 3% who don't dissaprove of sex outside marriage (penalty 100 lashes) .

Note however that many Muslim men groom underage UK girls and have sex with them. Its a big scandal at the moment in the UK.

Under Islam they have done nothing wrong. They are having sex with non-Muslim girls.

It's scary stuff.

Before you say stuff like "under islam, they have done nothing wrong. They are having sex with non-Muslim girls" you may wanna do some real research, and even post your source...

Oh wait, you can't. Fornication is forbidden in islam, period. Not between 2 muslims, or 2 non muslims, but period. Wasn't there a commandment that stated that adultery is wrong??

OH yea, there was... the ten commandments..

But somehow ONLY islam is "scary stuff".... You FAIL

Myself I'm Lebanese, ex-christian (now athiest), and I've lived more than half my life in the UAE, a country with a majority of muslims that exceed 90%.

The locals there are amazing people. VERY religious yes, but far from having any sort of extremist views. I'm not saying they don't exist, of course they do, there are extremists in every religion, but it is far from the gross exaggeration that the MSM talks about.

Having lived there for 10 years, I can say that not once have I felt descriminated against for my belief (or non belief if you will ). Whether it was an Emirati, or a Palestinian, or a Jordanian, whenever they found out I was an athiest they completely respected my opinion.

Originally posted by Tib50
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

Please take time to read more about the actual beliefs of Muslims, and you will discover that there is no such thing as a "moderate Muslim"---only Muslims PRETENDING to be moderate in order to squeeze more money out of the infidel countries, until the Muslim numbers are sufficiently high to take over the country.

But how many people who defend Islam have every studied the Koran and Hadiths?

It also makes me laugh when people have said they have read the Koran. It's almost unreadable unless it is read in conjunction with the Hadiths (which are just as holy to a Muslim).

Muder, rape, slavery. As carried out or ordered by Muhammed.

Here is a little taster

From Hadith 11:626

The Prophet said, "No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the 'Isha' prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to c awl." The Prophet added, "Certainly I decided to order the Mu'adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses."

Muhammad ordering people burnt for not coming to prayers.

Islam is not just another religion.

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Before you say stuff like "under islam, they have done nothing wrong. They are having sex with non-Muslim girls" you may wanna do some real research, and even post your source...

Oh dear, yet another knee jerk liberal falling over himself to defend something he knows almost nothing about.

Under Islamic doctrine the world is divided into two parts. That under Islamic domination and that which isn't. The non-Muslim part is open to plunder.

I don't have the exact sources to cite at the moment but would a passage from a hadith, giving Muhammeds men the right to rape capitive non Muslim women perhaps give you pause for though?

The story behind this (the Koran is almost unreadable without the sacred Hadiths as a guide) is that some of the companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with their female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers.

Koran (4:24)

And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Care to comment on my links to the Koran/hadiths that show the penalty for homosexuality is death, sex outside marriage is 100 lashes or Muhhamed (may peace be apon him) ordering people to be burnt to death?



In case anyone is wondering, the above link uses one of the most respected (by Muslims) translations of the koran into English.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
Before you say stuff like "under islam, they have done nothing wrong. They are having sex with non-Muslim girls" you may wanna do some real research, and even post your source...

Oh dear, yet another knee jerk liberal falling over himself to defend something he knows almost nothing about.

Under Islamic doctrine the world is divided into two parts. That under Islamic domination and that which isn't. The non-Muslim part is open to plunder.

I don't have the exact sources to cite at the moment but would a passage from a hadith, giving Muhammeds men the right to rape capitive non Muslim women perhaps give you pause for though?

The story behind this (the Koran is almost unreadable without the sacred Hadiths as a guide) is that some of the companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with their female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers.

Koran (4:24)

And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.

skepticsannotatedbible.com...

Care to comment on my links to the Koran/hadiths that show the penalty for homosexuality is death, sex outside marriage is 100 lashes or Muhhamed (may peace be apon him) ordering people to be burnt to death?



In case anyone is wondering, the above link uses one of the most respected (by Muslims) translations of the koran into English.

Didn't even read your post aside from the first sentence, because I AM muslim. It's very obvious if you read ANY of the damn thread..

ETA: And for the record, that translation of chapter 4 verse 24 means all married women are unlawful FOR YOU TO MARRY........ Not to have sex with... Geeze...