The Palestinian Propaganda, and the Truth of how Israelies BELONG in Israel.

reply to post by harryhaller


Thanks for that video, that was....an incredible watch.

I must say my favorite rant was the guy who said the Israeli state belongs to them because of the "gas" chambers.

Just epic video man!


The AIPAC video is just a once in a lifetime chance, where the situation was just right, to see these Israeli's actually expressing their bigotry, it was very interesting.

Are we going to give North America back to the Indians? Are we going to give all of Europe back to the Romans? Are we going to give the Mongols most of the middle east, and a portion of Asia? Should we just give ancient cities and countries, back to who used to live there? No. life, and the world happens. We cannot go around declaring who lives where.. If someone wants to live somewhere, you cant just throw them out to make room for who used to live there.

so, using that logic, guess all of us americans should pack up, head for england, germany, and where ever else our ancestors came from, give the land back to the native americans?? my people have been traced back to germany, so guess I'll go my plane ticket and start heading there, or...wait a minute..seems that the people who lived in germany came from someplace else......but where?? oh dear.......we might all need to have dna testing done to figure out just where our bloodline originated from....since human history is filled with wars, dislocations, and migrations of people!!!
by the way, the "JEWS" are only part of the nation of Isreal, Isreal became divided, the tribe of Judah and a few others became Judah, and the rest stayed Isreal, then well, Isreal was taken over and were dispersed.....leaving only the jews.....so, well, who is running the show in Isreal now, those jews that were left behind?? or the European Isrealites that returned after world war two???

The opening statement, that "Israelis belong in Israel" would seem fine, if they were indeed Israeli, but the vast majority are not, they are simply followers of Judaism, which is a religion and DOES NOT confer statehood.

The majority of Israelis are from other, mainly European or American, states and have absolutely no ethnic connection at all to the region, whereas the Palestinians do. The idea that simply being Jewish means you can kick someone else off their land by force is both sickening and against international law if it were to happen elsewhere. Are the methods of force, displacement and oppression used not also the very definition of terrorism?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I decided to post this here because in the other thread it will just be lost and more anti-jewish propaganda would continue to pop-up and only rarely some truth is posted about the situation in the Middle East.

Already I can see truth is not high on your to-do list. Well then, let's see qhat sorry attempt at counter-propaganda this one's going to bring to the table.

First of all, BOTH SIDES have committed atrocities, but this post is to show the truth about the Palestinian authority (government) and the Palestinian terrorists.

It's not a matter of an "atrocity scorecard." And frankly, when one side's "atrocity" is ethnic cleansing and a 60+ year program of conquest and pillage, and the other side's "atrocities" are a handfull of messy murders, I don't think the scorecards are going to be weighing even.

Back to point, the issue isn't the atrocities. The issue is the criminal theft of land and the criminal denial of human rights to refugees.

We all saw the claims and edited videos of the boarding by Israeli commandos, but only after the whole video was shown could we see that the Israeli commandos were attacked as they boarded the ship.

I can't help but notice you hold a belief that the Israeli version of the event is "unedited." Hokie-dokie. Here's the thing. when you rappel onto someone else's boat in international waters with guns in your hand... you're asking for it. Honestly, the people on those boats would have had every right to shoot those "commandos" dead and throw them overboard, as they would any other pirate. Instead, they hit them with deck chairs. Oooooooh. Poow widdle speshu fowces commandows, did oo get beaned by an aluminum tube?

The Palestinian propaganda machine use videos which have been edited to no end, just like the fiasco with the Israeli commandos boarding the terrorist Palestinian, I mean humanitarian Palestinian ship not too long ago which some members were able to debunk with proof that the Palestinian terrorists use every sort of tactics to get the naive people of the world on their side.

A few fallacies here. First off, the Mavi Mara was a Turkish ship. It was flying a Turkish flag, it had a bunch of turks on board, it was registered in Turkey. What I'm saying, I guess, is that it was in no way or shape "Palestinian." it was on route to Gaza, but hey, Chinese ships are all over the ports in Los Angeles, doesn't make 'em American.

Second, "terrorist" is a distinct thing. it's like "cop" or "porn fluffer" - it's a job description. You have to actually commit an act of terror to be a terrorist. Someone who edits a video is no more a terrorist than you are a member of the IDF because you typed this porn fluffer of a post for them.

Third, "Palestinian" and "terrorist" are not interchangeable words.

One such thread with ample evidence against the terrorist Palestinian propaganda is the following started by OldCorp. BTW, note that I say "terrorist Palestinian propaganda"... nowhere did I say all Palestinians are terrorists, although it is very close.

Link

That's sort of the Israeli-Palestinian version of "I don't hate black people, some of my best friends are black people, buuuuuut..."

And then you follow up with the "kill them with pork" stuff. Say. What do you suppose would happen if Hamas put a dollop of lard on each of their rockets? Would you get confused?

Anyway, if you just started looking into this you obviously are not aware of all the facts, and one of the facts you are obviously not aware of is that Palestinian terrorist groups, and the Palestinian authorities use children, young adults, and women as well for their propaganda and for their terrorist tactics.

Well, in the interest of truth, Israel does it also

I'll get to the main crux of this after the video.

Watch here some of the tactics used by Palestinian terrorists, and the Palestinian authorities, using children as shields, and as scouts, then when children or women are killed they use their deaths to instill hatred against the Israelis, and only the very naive believe these lies that the Israelis are the evil ones.

Ah, Lt. Barak Raz of the IDF has such a sonorous voice; he could do waffle commercials.

43 seconds in, the video quotes the Geneva conventions. Specifically, it says;

The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited

Now, as you say, "both sides have committed atrocities." Included in this is the intentional targeting of civilians - and I don't care what excuse you can conjure up, bombing a school is targeting civilians, no matter what side you're on.

However, in the context of pointing out the use of "human shields" by Hamas, this raises an interesting problem for Israel. See, with that portion of the Geneva conventions in mind, what are you supposed to do if you know your target is surrounded by noncombatants, i.e., civilians? Let's say you're in the IDF, and you've got some artillery. You've got a gunman firing from the window of an apartment building. In the next window over, you can see some kids. What would the Geneva conventions have you do in this case?

Let's pull it down a bit. At least here in the states, if a police officer engages in a pitched gun battle through a crowd of bystanders with an armed assailant, that police officer is considered to have intentionally risked the lives of those bystanders. Why? because he was aware of their presence and fired anyway. That is intentionally assailing the bystanders in order to get your target.

Back to the IDF artilleryman, then. Legally, their obligation is to withdraw from the situation. Better that the gunman get away, than the soldiers intentionally harm civilians to get him. Does this cause a possible military disadvantage? Yes, but oh well, the Geneva conventions were not written to make life easy on Generals.

The video continues on with the old assertion of how gentle the IDF is with the Palestinians. How they "take pains" to reduce civilian casualties. Who knows, maybe they do try, I'm not in their heads. But what I do know is that when you willfully take on a bombing campaign in a densely-populated area, you're going to be killing civilians. When doing so achieves absolutely nothing of benefit for you militarily, then no, you are NOT "taking pains" to protect the lives of civilians. You are in fact doing the opposite.

"They're bad guys when they kill civilians, but we're good guys when we kill civilians" holds no water at all. Especially when, out of the two, the supposed "good guys" kill vastly more people. According to Israe l itself, 542 Israelis - a combined total of civilians and military - have been killed by palestinain suicide bombers since 2000. Let's add to this number the 28 Israelis killed by rockets in the same time period, giving us a nice round death toll of 570 people killed in ten years.

According to B'Tselem, in three weeks, the soft-handed, judicious, civilian-casualty-avoiding IDF killed 1,385 Gazans, 762 of whom were noncombatants.

That is, where the Palestinain terrorists - all of them combined, not just one organization - killed an average of fifty-seven people per year in their operations, the IDF killed seventy people per day in theirs.

Let's move north; Lebanon. In 2006, Hezbollah conducted a raid on Israeli forces in the little patch of Lebanon that Israel occupies, known as "Shebaa Farms." This resulted in 9 dead soldiers and two captured. Israel went to war with Lebanon on the basis of this attack on its soldiers, and in the ensuing conflict, this is how the civilian death tolls ended up.

Israeli civilian deaths: 42
Lebanese civilian deaths: 1,191.

Like I said, maybe Israel's defense forces really do try to minimize civilian loss in their operations. if so, then perhaps they are just spectacularly bad at it.

And as for all that footage of kids being put into fighter outfits, know what that reminds me of? Down in Peru, there are Amazonian tribes who are fighting oil companies and the Peruvian military. Why? 'Cause the companies are stealing their lands and polluting their resources. They put spears and rifles in the hands of their kids, too. Back during the roman occupation of Canaan, the Jews of the time armed their children, too. It seems to just be what people living under siege do.

Maybe if the siege were to end...?

So next time you should be doing some real research instead of spending only 15 minutes watching Palestinian terrorist propaganda...

I don't really see that watching a half-hour of Israeli military propaganda is any more informative, truthfully.

BTW, some of the many "zionists" murdered by Palestinian terrorists include Tali Hatuel and her 4 daughters who were murdered in 2004 by Palestinian terrorists at close range, and the Palestinian terrorists made sure that NONE of the children, or the mother who was pregnant, would survive...

And some of the "Palestinian terrorists" burdered by the IDF include Ibrahim Mahmoud Khalafallah, a 72 year old paralyzed man hose home in Gaza was crushed by Israeli bulldozers with him in it after IDF forces forbade his family from removing him. They also enjoy taking potshots at kids collecting gravel

As I said, the atrocity checklist is useless; Palestine's territories could be populated by people who turn each other's flayed faces into masks and howl at the moon, and their territory would STILL not be Israel's.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by wcitizen
The argument that the Jewish people are entitled to live in Israel because their ancestors allegedly lived there approx 2000 years ago is frankly ridiculous and, imo, not even worth discussing.

You were one of the members claiming they just possessed those lands, now you are recanting and trying a new angle?...

First of all the Jewish people WERE ALWAYS THERE, second of all THEY ALL NEVER LEFT... So yes, the Jewish people belong in there as much as the millions of the Arab immigrants sent there to try to get those lands from the Jewish people.

Yes, you're sort of right; the Jewish people were always there, and the vast majority never left (a handful of revolt leaders from Iudaea were exiled to European slavery by the Romans).

Where you're wrong is the "millions of Arab immigrants." There were no "millions of Arab immigrants." Hell, at the time, there weren't millions of Arabs, immigrant or otherwise.

What happened is that after Rome became Christian... many of those Jews converted with it. A few hundred years later, Omar brought Islam to the region, and the Jews-who-became-Christians, converted again, to Islam.

That is to say, the Jews of then are the ancestors the Palestinians of now.

Palestinian are the real native people PERIOD

YOU SHALL NOT STEAL ..
YOU SHALL NOT KILL

how many time was that commandment broken ?

O K . Just for the sake of discussion, not argument, lets say you are living on your small family farm you inherited from your father.

One day two guys from a nearby town come up and tell you the have agreed that one of them can move onto your farm, bringing all his family and friends.

They are allowed to do this because the mayor of their town said they could because one of their great great grandfathers had slept in the woods one night when he was a boy.

You can protest all you want, but they move in anyway. Not long after they arrive, many more of their relative show up and take more and more of your small farm. Each time you protest, they kill a member of your family so there will be more room for them to occupy.

I am sure, by now, you are begining to where I am going with this little story.

Now, run a Google search for a book entitled "The Thirteenth Tribe". While you are at it, run a search for pictures of Palistine in the 1900's and 1920's.

After you have looked over the pics and read the book, think about my little story. If you wish to continue to hold the same opinions which you currently seem to have, I am afraid you may have to find a way to erase your memory.

I am making no statements to you as to who is right or wrong in the current situation. I only hope the parties involved will find a way to settle their differences without distroying the rest of the world with each other.

reply to post by dawnstar


everyone has to go back to gambia.

it'll be kinda crowded but we can start again, like the amazing race.

you know, I saw this thread and groaned, not again, another racism filled thread that will go no where. i even came in to post up the same tired old stuff I posted about both sides being wrong, both sides are human beings, blah blah blah.

then you know what? I actually read every single page of this thread, and guess what? The zio-ganda isn't working. It's clear as day. The majority here, at least those actually posting anything intelligent, see through the crap, and no amount of propaganda videos will negate the HORROR being brought upon a CIVILIAN population by one of the most advanced armies on earth. The death tolls speak for themselves.

People will continue to dehumanize the Palestinians into stereotypical characictures. People will continually claim that some how, the GERMAN holocaust against the Jews allows for them to forcefully evict people from Palestine. How that connection is made is completely beyond me. The other claim is the bible, the bible is full of crap, hypocritical, and is a damn BOOK, it's not a historical record.

At this point does it even matter who has a biblical, or judicial, claim to the land? Both peoples are there now, both peoples need to work TOGETHER if they ever want peace and stability in the region. Who keeps breaking cease fire agreements? Not the Palestinians. Who constantly refuses to even contemplate peace? No the Palestinians. As the Palestine papers prove, they offered Israel everything and the world, including Israeli control of Jerusalem. Zip from Israel on that one.

The fact that people are allowed to come on this forum and spew racist CRAP like some of the content provided is beyond me. Seriously, I can come generalize all Muslims into life hating terrorists who use their kids as weapons, but I can't mention decriminalization of pot?

You people make me sick. How uncaring, unhuman, can you actually be to believe some of this garbage.

Yes, that's right, all of it is Palestinian Propaganda, as the people of Gaza have multi-million dollar media empires. The Palestinians (the ones who never existed) control all facets of global media. They also have highly paid, and highly influential, Palestinian lobby groups that lobby the US government for pro Palestinian causes. The Palestinians also get billions of dollars in aid a year in the form of cash and military equipment. They regularly illegally cross the border into ISrael, bulldoze some occupied homes, then shoot up the people fleeing from apache attack choppers.

All this for a desolate little strip of land you can barely grow crops on.

All of this is potentially leading to a world ending conflict. And no, I don't believe for a second that if the US stopped sending aid to Israel all countries in the region would immediately attack.

What I do believe though, is if the US stopped blindly funding Israel, and Israel kept up it's pattern of instigation, they would indeed bring about their own destruction.

Some other poster in another thread said it quite well.

Israel is the little school yard bully that picks fits and then runs and hides behind his big brother (US). Sure, Israel has plenty of enemies. But it certainly has nothing to do with how they ACT, it's all because they are Jewish. One can only criticize Israel out of antisemitic hatred for all Jews, it simply can't be based on rational thinking based on their actions.

Honestly, if you *think* you are surrounded by enemies foaming at the mouth waiting to kill you, do you honestly think continually goading them into conflicts is the path to peace?

Why does Israel exist? Ignoring the bible for a second...

It exists because the Germans didn't want Jews in Europe, for whatever reason. The first few years leading into the war was about removing them, forcefully evicting them from their homes, with no notice, leaving all their belongings to Germans could "resettle" the area. Eventually this lead to the death camps, but again, this wasn't only about Jews, this was gypsies, communists, Marxists, dissidents, anyone the Third Reich didn't want. This was NEVER a Jewish only affair, lest we forget.

In the aftermath of the war, once the concentration camps (not all of which are "death camps") were liberated, there were hundreds of thousands of stateless Jews to deal with. Contrary to what YOU might think, no country wanted them for various reasons. Madagascar was a though by the Germans as a place to relocate them. Instead, the british Mandate of Palestine was picked. Some jewish groups actually refused to leave Germany unless their Zion (Israel )could be created.

So the governments made an agreement to create the state of Israel right? No. A Plan was drawn up, splitting the area into Palestine, and Israel, a two state solution. This plan was to be discussed, but instead, Jewish leaders declared the state, it was backed by a few others, and ISrael was born.

That's right, the exact method for Palestinian state hood that Israel is deploring, the US is saying won't work and is not how these situations are resolved, is EXACTLY how Israel came to be.

Ahh, but the best is yet to come. The newly founded Israel decided it wanted more territory, and also decided they didn't want the Arabs around. Go ahead and research this, who introduced terrorism into the region? Israel and the Jewish terrorist groups.

So Israel's justification for the settlements is what happened to them in Europe during the war, which has NOTHING to do with Palestine at all.

The Irony is.....

Jews were forcefully evicted from their homes so Germans, who had no claim to the land, could take their homes and jobs. In some cases, German settlers would walk around the town looking for Jewish owned businesses (the ones still run by Jews), pointed them out to the German army, who later confiscated the business and gave it to the Germans.

In this mindset, they use that as justification for:

Forcefully evicting Palestinians from their homes and businesses so Jewish settlers, with no claim to the land, can "settle" the area.

But it gets ever better. At least SOME of the Germans actually felt bad about this. Watch "The Nazis: A Warning from History" they have some touching, and disturbing interviews (subtitled).

The Israelis seem to enjoy it. And also, they immediately wipe the name off the map, rename the area, demolish old sites and plant trees there instead, trying to erase the history of the region.Any of you who have donated to the "plant a tree in Israel" campaign are directly funding the erasure of thousands of years of history.

You can rationalize the Israeli position all you want, some facts can't be rationalized away:

Israel is the occupying force with a MILITARY
Gaza is the occupied area with loosely organized resistance groups.

don't condone murder by either side. But, if put into that position without a choice? I'd choose to be a Palestinian a million times over. At least when I was shot dead peacefully protesting the apartheid wall, I'd dying with a clean heart. I honestly don't think I could do that from the other side.

One would think that, for a country who stresses the "never again" motto, they'd be the last group to go about racially profiling people, marching them into ghettos, and treating them like animals. Killing them for sport.

Yes, I know, all of you ISraeli supports, who also happen to be former IDF, will tell me it's all propaganda, whatever, you have tanks, choppers, and rifles, they have sticks, rockets, and home made fireworks. you'll tell me it's all lies, but alas, I think I'll believe the UN, NATO, Red Cross, and amnesty international, before I trust the words of someone obviously, blatantly, biased.

reply to post by Ben81


Looking for "Thy shall not kill" in my 10 Commandments......

wait a sec.......

nope, not here

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


You people really amaze me here on ATS.....

When there is multiple threads of anti-Israel, all the anti-semitics arrive in droves like cockroaches

When there's a single thread about Palestinian Propaganda, all the anti-semitics arrive in droves:
1. The Palestinians and Israelis are no different to eachother
2. More anti-semitic remarks

Fact is this; the IDF do NOT use their children as human shields and suicide bombers


Any American who suggests Israel should go back to the 1967 borders or leave Israel; perhaps the Americans should revert back to their 1845 borders. How many Mexicans died?

And next time ya'll whine about the death of Palestinians, take a leaf out of your own recent history that far out weighs anything the IDF have done..............2 million Iraqis and Afghanis (excluding those in Libya &, Pakistan), and add the death toll of all US and Coalition Forces in Iraq and Afghanistan because we all know they did'nt die for their God/nation/family/friends but for NWO and big corporation.

Gaza is one huge concentration camp. That is FACT. Spew your bile and propaganda. Play victim to something that happened sixty-something years ago while Israel commits atrocities TODAY. You bots make retch.

roll out the red carpet for the anti-defamation league!

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

and op, what say you about the popular post about the idf the other day?

reply to post by bluemirage5

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by phishyblankwaters

 

You people really amaze me here on ATS.....

When there is multiple threads of anti-Israel, all the anti-semitics arrive in droves like cockroaches

and pro-israel trolls never cease to amaze me when they refer to people that don't agree with the idf or the israeli government's policy and actions as "anti-semites" and "cockroaches"

obvious.troll.is.obvious

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Just one question in my mind, if Jews are allowed to return after 2000 years, why do the same Jews refuse Palestinians from returning after couple of decades?

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by wcitizen
The argument that the Jewish people are entitled to live in Israel because their ancestors allegedly lived there approx 2000 years ago is frankly ridiculous and, imo, not even worth discussing.

You were one of the members claiming they just possessed those lands, now you are recanting and trying a new angle?.

Please note the word 'allegedly' in my sentence, then look it up in the dictionary.

..

First of all the Jewish people WERE ALWAYS THERE, second of all THEY ALL NEVER LEFT... So yes, the Jewish people belong in there as much as the millions of the Arab immigrants sent there to try to get those lands from the Jewish people.

Wow, now the story is developing another aspect. The Arab immigrants were sent there to STEAL the land from the Jews? ROFL.

My ancestors used to live in Scotland. Imma try the same argument. I'll go there and evict the people on that land and attack them if they resist. After all, my claim is that my ancestors lived there, therefore it's mine, right?

Likewise the American Indians have the right to expel everyone in US who isn't American Indian, right? They have the right to kill as many as they wish, drop DU all over US, and bomb the hell out of the whole countryand put up all kind of movement restrictions on all non-indigenous Americans, and deny them the right to basic necessities, right? And if that happened, you would happily hand over all your belongings to them, let them destroy your home and kill your family, right?

reply to post by bluemirage5

Originally posted by bluemirage5

Fact is this; the IDF do NOT use their children as human shields and suicide bombers

Yeah thats true! They use palestinian children as human shields!

IDF soldiers convicted of using 11-year-old as human shield in Gaza

IDF continues `human shield' policy, rights groups claim

Soldiers used Palestinian teenager as a human shield

Anti Semitic, Anti Semitic, is the battle cry it seems.
My boy is and has been dating a great little Jewish girl for a little over 4 years now.
If I were anti Semitic I guess I should flip out, but no I don’t.
Therefore I must not be anti Semitic as I happen to love this girl like a daughter, she is good for him and both the wife and I know this.
With that said, it abhors me to see the things happening in Palestine by the Israelis, it appalls me even more to know my country not only allows it but supports it too.
I understand that propaganda is a powerful tool, that is why liars use it.
I tried to explain to the OP that most folk here are hip to what is a lie and what is not but I guess some actually believe the lies or it is just too painful to admit that you were lied to and wrong.
Truth is paramount as if we do not know our past we cannot know our future.
Remember the USS Liberty.

Modern Israel should never have existed, IMO. It was a foolish move done by Western Powers with a guilt complex over the Holocaust and/or a desire to have a Western proxy in the heart of the Middle East(a huge oil hub). So Jews ruled the land for about a minute and a half in the ancient world. So the heck what!?! They themselves slaughtered the pre-existing people residing there in order to occupy it back then. Then they lost it to more significant empires, got it back via the Maccabbees for a hundred or so years, and lost it again to the Romans. Then the Arab Muslims came to dominate that area.
So 2000 years after the Romans, suddenly they have a right to that land and to dominate and dehumanize the existing populace? Really. So by that logic, the American Indians have a right to take over North America and treat all Euro/African/Asian descended people as subhumans(it would be one good turn deserves another but bear with me), the Celts(Welsh/Scottish/Britons/Irish) have a right to retake the British Isles and treat the AngloSaxon and Norman as subhumans. These examples are far less ludicrous than the OP's assertion that Jews have a right to claim that land. Their losses were far more recent.
It certainly is not worth the problems it's caused.
American Jews are generally very successful and i think that is something for them, and nonJewish Americans, to be proud of. Many ethnic groups no longer have a "homeland". There is absolutely no reason to create havoc in the world for the sake of any one ethnic/religious group.
The US should abandon Israel as an ally and let it defend itself. After that 2 day period is over, we should then offer the refugees a place to stay here. Got no problem with Jews whatsoever. Know quite a few who are pretty awesome, actually. Israel - call it a dumb idea, call it a strategic hegemonic Western proxy, or just call it the creator of much evil. I'd rather call it "no longer existing."
Just one man's opinion.
And i love how I'll be called "anti-Semitic" for it. AIPAC and anyone else who equates one's opinion of Israel with one's opinions of all Jews are becoming a laughing stock by anyone remotely rational. Unfortunately, our politicians getting all that money from them continue to sell us out for a foreign nation.
Any subjugated populace has the right to fight back against its oppressors. And desperation breeds desperate measures.