French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

So let me get this straight, you think that no one is capable of fully making decisions till they are 26(by reason of some undeveloped frontal lobe) yet somehow your frontal lobe was more developed than everyone elses when you were capable of making these decisions by age 13?

Scientifically based on anatomy and physiology the human mind is not fully developed in some key processing areas until the age of 26.

That’s something to take up with nature. I am simply stating a scientific fact.

However typically around the age of 13 in many adolescents when going through another physiological stage of growth called puberty most young people begin forming hard and fast decisions that they are often willing to live or die by.

My statement was designed to prompt thought on where the legal age of consent should really be set.

As young as 13 or as old as 26 being the extreme points on the scale, sadly in such an incredibly polarized thread I haven’t found too many people interested or capable of intellectual discussion but preferring emotional based ones.

Pretty much displaying some will never make a rational or informed opinion until the moment of their death.

Where thankfully they will have finally decided to stop attempting to micro-manage and control everything in a fluid universe born of chaos and infinite possibilities.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

As young as 13 or as old as 26 being the extreme points on the scale, sadly in such an incredibly polarized thread I haven’t found too many people interested or capable of intellectual discussion but preferring emotional based ones.

Yeah, mostly on your side of the debate, and you might want to put yourself in that category.

Considering the extremely tiny percentage of women who actually feel the need to go out in public covered from head to toe,

AND, let's face it, the only women who feel violated by this ban of the veil are women suffering from serious psychosis as a result of a lifetime of abuse,

THE ONLY PEOPLE you are defending are men who demand the right to completely and totally dominate and control their women. Men who fit your description, I have quoted, precisely.

I admit it, certain people on this planet I want to see micro managed, murderers, rapists, wife beaters, slavers, it isn't a very long list, but totally justified. Believe it or not, there are legitimate reasons for creating laws, you just have to hang on to common sense and know when you are going too far in both creating too many laws, and in appeasing arrogant extremists.

reply to post by poet1b


If just one woman wants to go in public covered from head to toe, and she is not violently assaulting anyone then she represents no threat what so ever to society.

That you want to ascribe motive and reason to that woman based on your own reality which is based on your own singular perception of the world is simply your own desire to control and dictate to others.

Yoiu will never see that because you can't see the forest for the trees.

You see only your desire to control, and a desire to justify it as reasonable.

Your assumptions based on what you imagine that womans motives are, being the height of ignorance as you will neither consider that woman's statement or ability to reach a decision that is right for her, when it doesn't appear right to your thinking.

Ignorance being the hardest objection to overcome, as the ignorant really desire to be nothing but for their own convenience to justify their beliefs and desire to control and dictate to others.

It is what it is my friend, and I have no desire to live in a world, or listen to people who would tell me what to do, when I am not hurting them and it's none of their business.

Thanks.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your knowledge of France is obviously null, which makes the rest of your opinion just as worthless. The french bathe MORE then the americans and wax their entire bodies. You have no idea what you are talking about.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Not if it means that for that one womans right, millions of women will continue to abused and dominated by the men who screwed that one poor woman up so much that she desires to go outside covered from head to toe.

Your logic and reasoning is off considerably on this topic. I understand your point, but I disagree, and I wonder if you understand mine.

Originally posted by coquine
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Your knowledge of France is obviously null, which makes the rest of your opinion just as worthless. The french bathe MORE then the americans and wax their entire bodies. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Really they wax their eyes? Wow that has got to hurt.

So everyone over there is wearing wigs and fake eyebrows now?

Seems kind of strange but I am pro-choice, so great, glad to hear it!

i just wanted to add my two cents here

this past week a local mosque had an exchange program where french muslim kids from highschool to university were invited to toronto. the toronto batch are going in june-july.

basically we took the kids to landmarks in toronto and gave them a taste of niagra falls. the students were shocked at the openness of canadian life. they were surprised at how muslims here could pray at any grassy spot, wearing hijabs and niqaabs in government building and university without being given any weird looks, reprimanded etc.

anyways it was a fun experience for me

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

It is what it is my friend, and I have no desire to live in a world, or listen to people who would tell me what to do, when I am not hurting them and it's none of their business.

Should Miami find itself with a Muslim majority down the road, you would find yourself with more people trying to tell you what to do, when and how than is currently the case with the secular government you so hate.

There is only one context in which a woman would choose "of her own volition" to wear a completely concealing head to toe garment with a veil over her eyes, and that is one in which the men in her life are foul, demeaning egoists who view her as property to be used and abused as they wish. They see every woman as a potential slut first and foremost. In that context her choice to wear the garb protects her from the violence of men.

Now, you might call it micro-managing, but not wanting to intervene in that sort of situation is the epitome of uncaring aloofness. There is a place for intellectualism and a place for emotion too. You cannot leave the heart out of this one.

reply to post by wayno


That's all fear based speculation in the hopes that you can create a reality based on it.

There are many peaceful Islamic societies and the majority of Muslims are peaceful people.

What's particuarly sad about arguments like these is how people focused on the imagined problems based on their fears instead of our very real problems that are by and large ignored while you immerse yourself in a world of fears that hasn't come to pass.

Personally I advise people to clean up their own backyard before worrying about their neighbors.

Your inability to clean up your own backyard and live up to the standards you yourself set simply does make your way of life look failed and bankrupt to others.

No wonder you fear others might reject it and want a different one.

Restore real American values to America, not taking sides in foreign wars, no empires, even simple laws few in their number, a small government, an end to gunboat diplomacy, focus on restoring manufacturing and jobs and prosperity and living up to the standards of innocent until proven guilty, and equal rights and you won't have to worry about a thing.

All you are really doing is running away from real problems to focus on imaginary ones, and wow, you bullied some girls.

Great for you man!

Muslim girls, which I am sure there men are very appreciative of.

So yeah you keep on creating your own self fulfilling prophecies see where it gets you.

Me I don't want to watch.

I have real issues right here to deal with right now.

reply to post by ZarbeMomin

basically we took the kids to landmarks in toronto and gave them a taste of niagra falls. the students were shocked at the openness of canadian life. they were surprised at how muslims here could pray at any grassy spot, wearing hijabs and niqaabs in government building and university without being given any weird looks, reprimanded etc.

Yeah, cause everyone knows it is every kid's dream to wear weird looking uncomfortable outfits and pray in public. Especially in hot and humid Toronto. No doubt it is better than get slapped around constantly.

How great it is for you people to come here and defend a woman's right to live a life of constant abuse and domination.

I don't unerstand why is all this a problem. If i go on a vacation to Arab countries i can't do anything with my GF in public (well behind closed doors also i think if you are not married+im not talking about sex.) and if i get caught we would end up in jail for who knows how long...i only wish we can pay 150€ fine...
So they can have their own laws and no one else can't have theirs.. To be honest i wouldnt feel good if i couldn't see someones face when i'm walking down the street..

reply to post by poet1b


Wait a minute, i'm a woman and your reply seems to claim that i'm an advocate for beating woman

Your argument is weak. How can you, a man, who makes assumptions claiming that woman you don't know, woman you have never met, gets beaten daily. Your assumptions and attitude say it all.

I could call for evidence for your assumption that all these woman are beaten, but i know it doesn't exist and it's just your biased opinion.

You are NOT an advocate for womans rights at all. You sir are an advocate for controlling woman based on an assumption that you know better then they do. You hide behind 'saving' them but really you are controlling them, making decisions for them, treating them like victims and assuming that they are powerless and cannot stand up for themselves just like those controlling men that you sooooo want to apparently save them from.

reply to post by Nammu


Give me one single reason why a woman would, on a hot day, want to wear head to toe cover; including a veil over her eyes while out in public that does not involve fear or intimidation. I maintain that there is no positive or constructive reason for doing this.

Fashion? No!
Comfort? No!
Shyness? Not likely as it draws attention in most places.

Fear of chauvinist men? Likely
Fear of reprisal? Likely

Yet you defend this? Please, I await your answer.

reply to post by Nammu


You can be a woman and be an advocate for women who don't behave getting beaten for disobedience. This is a classic behavior symptom for people raised under abusive circumstances. This is well recorded, do some research.

There are healthy relationships where one partner dominates the other, as Proto has pointed out, but even those relationships exist under a certain code.

It is well recorded that women are forced to wear the veil in Islamic countries, and there is plenty of evidence out there if you want to bother to look. The tale of women changing in the airplane as soon as the opportunity presents itself is evidence of that.

The problem with the veil is that it is a tool used for domination, that most women are forced to wear one is proof of that, and as such, it is a symbol of oppression, that is against the principles of western culture.

I could understand a woman wearing such an outfit on a special occasion, but at other times, most likely you seeing a victim, which is why it should not be allowed.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by 23432

 

A woman shouldn't be allowed to get on a plane with her face completely covered.

Just as she shouldn't be allowed to get on the plane naked.

The following link describes a flight full of nude passengers:
miami.about.com...

What would be a fitting punishment for the group who did this oh holy tyrant on high?

reply to post by wayno


Religious reasons. It's simple.

True, most Muslims don't believe that women are to cover themselves completely. But some do, just as some Christian women believe they should not wear pants.

Yall who support the Muslim women wearing a full face veil...will you also support my right to wear a Mohammed Mask with the words Mohammed written on the mask when I go out into public? That is what my religious belief teaches me.

If you support Muslim women wearing a full face veil do you also support my right to wear my Mohammed mask with the words Mohammed written on the mask? (Mohammed came to me in a vision and told me I should do this).

Let's see how much religious tolerance we have here at ATS. If we support full face veils that are offensive to one group do we also support Mohammed Masks that are offensive to another groups?

(Mohammed told me to wear the Mohammed mask with the words Mohammed written on the mask, this is my religious belief and I am sorry if you are offended by my beliefs but that is not my intention to offend you only to practice my religious beliefs.)

Does the Religious Tolerance go both ways or is this a one way street?

Do you have as much tolerance for a Mohammed mask as you do for a face veil?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f74dd463cd04.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by civilchallenger


They arrive dressed, not naked. It all occurs on a pre-arranged private flight, where everyone choose to do this.

I would have no objection to a similarly arranged all burqa flight.