French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


All you are doing is posting nonsense.

That western women occasionally wear scarves with sunglasses has nothing to do with it. As soon as they get indoors, they remove these items. That is another law that should be established with all of these head coverings. Indoors, they must be removed.

We simply aren't doing enough in the western world to liberate the women of the World from the horrible oppression of Islam.

reply to post by Sol0Invictus



She sounds like quite an enterprising woman. Although it is alleged she committed fraud, I don`t think its any different to what the "robo signers" were doing, or the wall street banks selling dud securities that were designed to fail.

Good luck to you all the same.

reply to post by torqpoc

Again you demonstrate you have no clue what you're talking about. Sitting in Miami, i'm not surprised. Were you to actually do a little research or better still visit France and specific areas of Paris you'd see that the French haven't forced their lifestyle on anyone, it is the other way around.

Why would I want to visit Gaul! The people rarely bathe, are rude, and are prone to give up their nation to anyone with an army, while terrified of women wearing burkas.

Why don't you go read about prayer meetings which happen in Paris streets where people, of any culture, are no longer permitted access to their shops, houses and why? Because a specific group of Muslims have decided to take over the streets, with their own security and the French police won't do anything in case they offend them. Again those nasty French imposing their lifestyle, how dare they, right?

Here in Surfside there is a CVS pharmacy with a back enterance. That enterance is right next too a small Jewish Organizations offices in an office building. They have a small open air temple of a wire fence and a latice wood roof to conduct prayers. Often they spill out of that small enclosure because there are too many of them to fit into it. They then block the door to the CVS. Though I am not Jewish if they are in the middle of a group prayer, I either respectfully wait for them to finish or walk around to the front enterence.

A little common courtesy goes along way, but as I have said the French are known for their arrogance, so maybe it's too much to ask for from them.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Your Jews haven't taken over main street without a permit. The Muslims in Paris are specifically challenging the laws of the land and they are winning. They are establishing their own laws and forcing other Parisians to submit to them.

There is no comparison to your local anecdote. Stop being silly and try to actually listen to what people are saying. What is going on in Paris is abominable and given enough time, will be happening in Florida too unless it is stopped. I am almost always on the pro-Muslim side of things here on ATS but this is a different ballgame entirely.

Four Nuns live next door to my sister. They hardly ever wear the Nuns habit which is not that dissimular to Islamic cultural dress (not religous)

I asked once why they did not as when I was younger this was not the case at a catholic school. The reply was that they found wearing the habit changed peoples attitude towards them (for the worse) which meant they were less effective in the work they did which was working with poor and homeless.

Veils and other such costumes is not our culture. It is not anti Islamic just as the Nuns never faced anti catholic.

The clothing acts as a barrier and that is the intent of it. So the wearers seperate themselves from the society they live in should not complain when they are treated different.

BTW I dont mean that excuses hatred and rudeness

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Your Jews haven't taken over main street without a permit. The Muslims in Paris are specifically challenging the laws of the land and they are winning. They are establishing their own laws and forcing other Parisians to submit to them.

There is no comparison to your local anecdote. Stop being silly and try to actually listen to what people are saying. What is going on in Paris is abominable and given enough time, will be happening in Florida too unless it is stopped. I am almost always on the pro-Muslim side of things here on ATS but this is a different ballgame entirely.

Yeah actually they have taken over main street without a permit, and when the Mayor finally challenged them, they started a recall petition to remove her from office.

That action is still pending, but they are very clear in their intent, try to interfere and we will punish you for that.

I actually discussed that with them a while back when I spied some of the elders and suggested they would be better served politically by using their political clout to get the rezoning that they need to make that particular gathering legal, but they are intent on punishing the mayor and likely will suceed in removing her from office early.

Religion and the politics of religion can be quite ugly.

By the way many of these Jews follow the edict that you shall not touch your face with a razor and wear unkept beards too. Many wear dress that is Orthodox and not very fashionable and I have to tell you seeing a Jewish Man dressed in black slacks, a white shirt buttoned to the neck, with a black jacket and a black over coat on a 98 degree day here at the beach really does make me scratch my head and say 'now that's not a tourist',

It's part of their culture and part of their way, many of their women wear long denim skirts that are not flattering and scarves around their hair too as part of their religious dress and customs.

They in fact aren't much different than the Muslims at all, they are just better politically connected and have better organizational skills at fighting back against anyone who questions or defames them.

They are often stand offish, not known to smile or wave or be friendly to non-Jews, but I realize just like in many Muslims cases that's because they are concerned the rest of us think they are wierd and nuts for dressing the way they do especially in the Miami heat.

So I wave and smile anyway, and they are friendly enough people if you take the time to break the ice.

They aren't really hurting anyone who doesn't mess with them.

Moral to the story, try not to mess with them.

They won't mess with you.

What a lot of people fail to mention when they get their talking points from Jihadwatch.com is that yeah some Muslims got together just like the Jews do in number to counter someone messing with them.

They don't all get together one day for no reason and start smashing windows and setting tires on fire for the fun of it, it's usually in response to someone messing with them.

The seriously religious whether they be Jews, Christians or Muslims are best left to their practices and not messed with, because they are all passionate believers in their words and they will all band together to protest in one form of another in one way or another when they feel threatened or are attacked.

Learn how to get along with other people and respect them, and most of these problems go away.

Keep trying to be your brothers and sisters keeper and they are going to push back.

Pretty simple.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Does this small Jewish congregation put up concrete barriers and have guards?

If not, then it is quite a different situation.

The difference is blatant, why do you defend this?

Why are you so willing to throw logic and reason out the window on this subject?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


That is quite a different description from you original post, when they were only blocking the back door of a CVS pharmacy, and now they are taking over the street and bringing down the mayor.

That is known as inconsistent stories.

Torqpoc, I wish I could give you a thousand stars. You said it all, an so well too.

Is there any news on how this ban is working out there in France?

Hey Proto, are you OK with Muslim wormen having their photo taken with burqa in place for their Driver's License?
And how about they can go into the bank that way?
But...I have to take off my sunglasses, and any hat, likely headscarf that I might be wearing if the weather is cold, or rain bonnet if it is raining.
Equal Rights????

This sort of thing is not conducive of me learning to love these people, nor those in places of Power who condone it.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

That is quite a different description from you original post, when they were only blocking the back door of a CVS pharmacy, and now they are taking over the street and bringing down the mayor.

That is known as inconsistent stories.

No it's just some additional details, I began by stating no, I am not really inconvenienced by it and don't mind walking around to the front or waiting a couple minutes for them to finish.

However yes, some citizens approached the mayor complaining because the make shift temple they constructed out of flimsy building materials, next to the office building that their offices are in, has no building permit and is not properly zoned.

That's a whole other issue.

One I brought up when the presumption on the part of another poster was that they had a permit to congregate and were doing so legally.

As you know I am not real big on the law so I don't really care that they are worshipping and blocking the street in an illegal fashion.

However here in the Police State the laws must be followed and you must pay for the privelege of some things.

In other words the state wants to profit.

So no I didn't include it originally, what was relevant to me, is me showing the common courtesy of not being upset because they were blocking my egress into the store with prayer.

You can in fact call the Town of Surfside Florida USA to research this issue and inquire about this controversy which is quite real.

Thanks.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Does this small Jewish congregation put up concrete barriers and have guards?

If not, then it is quite a different situation.

The difference is blatant, why do you defend this?

Why are you so willing to throw logic and reason out the window on this subject?

There is one main temple a couple blocks away that has off duty police guards during services. Surfside is a well policed small affluent incorporated area of Miami Beach so the concrete barriers are not needed.

However a small Shepardic Temple exists as an addition to a private home a few blocks away, and a small make shift temple exists behind a office building next to the CVS.

The temple behind the CVS is chicken wire walls with 4 X 4 corners holding up a latice roof, like the kind of latice you would put up for plants to trail on a garden, some of it covered and decorated with Palm Fronds.

The Jewish Offices in the Office Building are a Jewish Charity Group and the make shift enclosure a temple for the staff, visitors and family members to pray at.

I see no harm in it. It's just people of faith wanting a little space to congregate to join in fellowship.

It doesn't have any machine guns, or flame throwers, or attack dogs so I consider it harmless.

Why do I want to persecute harmless people congregating in Prayer?

The truth is I don't. I want to show them the mutual respect I hope that they will show me.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler



These religious groups are usually worse than the state.

As I stated earlier, I think they should all be taxed the same as any political entity, because they all practice politics, and they all aim to tell people how to live their lives.

You know we have become a sad country when we could take a lesson from France. However, good for them! Maybe it will catch on.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

So it all boils down to are you individually an intollerant [sic] enemy who fears and wants to persecute them, or are you a fellow human being who has empathy for them.

The latter will make you friends, the former will make you the opposite.

Where is the justification for the false dichotomy to which it "all boils down?"

Let's deconstruct this for a moment. According to the logic presented in quotes, one must be EITHER an enemy OR a human being. There are simply no other options. In that case, an enemy cannot be a human being; they must be subhuman or nonhuman. It also assumes that human beings cannot be fearful, intolerant, or desire persecution; a direct conflict with mankind's territorial instinct and its place as an apex predator.

The argument also states (using hyperbole, IMHO) that an enemy or (E) is intolerant (a), fearful (b), AND desires persecution (c). So, our formula is simple: "E = a + b + c." Let's assume, for a moment, that "X = (a + c) - b." Now, by the logic displayed above, the absence fear (b) in the presence of intolerance (a) and the desire for persecution (c), would make "X = friend." The same could be said for "X = (a + c) - b" or "X = (b + c) - a," for that matter.

The logic is flawed, therefore the argument is null.

Personally, I feel if a person doesn't like the lex terrae, move somewhere else. Do I enjoy handing over a large portion of my salary to a government that might turn right around and use it to line the pockets of corporate executives or pass legislation that will further cripple this already financially hamstrung nation? Absolutely not! Do I feel like my voice is being heard on the steps of Congress? Nay! However, I enjoy living in a country where (for now, at least), I am able to bitch, moan, and speculate on the government's seedy business dealings without the fear of fines, imprisonment, or death. I also enjoy owning guns, haha. Well, as much as I abhor the version of "democracy" practiced here, it could be MUCH worse. I could live in Europe!
With love from the United Socialist States of America,
Me, baby, me

P.S. - P.T., I feel that a general apology on behalf of around 310 million people is somewhat presumptuous and hypocritical on your part. Do you also immediately humble yourself and issue a formal apology to every American Indian, British, people from the former Confederate States, Mexican, Spanish, Turkish, German, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Cuban, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Chinese, Laotian, Panamanian, Grenadine, Iraqi, Somali, Serbian, and Pakistani person you meet for American transgression toward their countries?

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


So let me get this straight, you think that no one is capable of fully making decisions till they are 26(by reason of some undeveloped frontal lobe) yet somehow your frontal lobe was more developed than everyone elses when you were capable of making these decisions by age 13?

reply to post by 23432


Yah, so mebbe it works for the California desert as well.... or maybe not cause Death Valley I hear is really deadly

Here is the way I see it:

Imagine that you moved into another country on this planet. You are a woman and wear a bra or bathing suit top. Or, in other words, you cover a certain part of your body. However, in that country, they view the tops you wear as an oppression on your rights and demand you remove the bra. You comply but you might feel very embarassed and awkward at first.

Or imagine you are either a woman or a man. You move to a prosperous country and they view ANY clothing as a violation of your freedoms. They demand you remove all your clothing. You comply but you probably feel awkward.

This is how these women probably feel. I am not saying the ban is wrong but understand that some compassion will go a long way in making people comply with the ban.

Now, I can understand the ban based on security risks. People are not allowed to wear face masks, helmets, or anything else that cannot be used to identity them. This is why the veils need to be banned. I am not allowed to wear my hat at work. Why should they be allowed to wear a Turban or veil?