French ban on Islamic face veil comes into force

reply to post by poet1b


I think if you reread my post you will see that I don't feel people are physically, emotionally and intellectually mature enough to make quality decisions until they are 26 and the full frontal lobes are finally fully developed which are the key decision making process area of the brain.

I pointed out simply that in some places the age of consent is as young as 13.

By the way by the age of 13 I was in fact making most of my own critical decisions, and by the age of 14 was basically out on my own in the world having to make them all.

This though however was all my own decision.

So we as a society can say you can't make legal decisions or enter into contracts, drink, drive, have sex, or smoke until a certain age, but that is not going to always stop young people from deciding differently for themselves.

What can you do about that? Not much, since everyone has a mind of their own.

You gravitate towards extremes alot and what you percieve as 'enemies' or 'dangerous' elements within society, while igorring the very real dangers in determining through the law in what people can and can not wear in a free society.

It's not only a deflection but a cop out.

I try to be a friend to you, well to everyone here on ATS, and all I can tell you is this.

I can respect someone saying "Hey I honestly don't like the Burka, I think it's ugly, and I stops me from checking out of the woman underneath it is pretty to look at".

That's an honest statement, I don't agree with it, but I can respect someone who just honestly comes out and states a preference.

All the phony baloney excuses and reasons you are coming up with are really just that phony baloney excuses and reasons.

There have been a couple of women now posting to the thread who have worn the burka or lived in those societies and you all but ignore what they have to say, like you know more about it as an American male than they do about it than a Muslim female.

So yours is very much a chauvenistic attitude where if a woman says something you don't agree with it's because some man brainwashed her, and you are here now to help her find the light.

I at least know when I am coming across like an obnoxious self centered narcissist with mysoginsitic tendencies and can admit it.

While you pretend your involved in some chivalrous crusade that wholly and completely discounts anyone you are wanting to 'save' that doesn't want to be saved.

That's pretty sad.

Let the ladies do what they want to do, and if they want to do it just to please or get along with a man, respect that's their choice too, that they either love that man, or are dependent on him, and chose to be both.

Muslim women are free to divorce, they are even gauranteed their pre-marital property no questions ask. If their father sent them into the marraige with 50,000 they come back out of it with 50,000, they have the right to manage their own finances and own their own property even within marraige and in fact were centuries ahead of western women in that regard.

If you are really confused about these things, talk to real Muslim women and a variety of them not some internet source that is either pure propaganda or done by some agenda driven group looking for funding.

Listen to what they have to say, respect that they are human beings and adults, and be man enough and grown up enough to accept and let them make their own choices.

It's simply not your place or wise to insitst law dictate what can be worn or not, trust me in the New World Order you are creating you will end up wearing a uniform, because that's where all this heads, uniform thoughts, uniform actions, uniform speech, uniform clothes.

Anything else will be against the law, and you will have helped open the door for it.

Sometimes indulging your fears ends up leading to your worse nightmare.

reply to post by 23432


Ah.... but it its not I that is extolling the moral superiority of my culture.
All I`m doing is revealing some uncomfortable truths for others to ponder.

reply to post by 23432


So, did your sister of mother ever go to club med and visit you?

Would you be fine with women in your family walking around nude at club med?

I have no problem with nudity, I just don't think it belongs in public places.

Nude beaches, nude clubs, strip joints, I am comfortable with all of that. I served in the military, and being nude around large numbers of people is part of boot camp.

If I went to the Arabian desert, I would probably wear the whole head covering gear as well. It makes sense in the Arabian desert, but not in France, and certainly not in the summer where I live, and yet you still see women wearing that stuff and looking miserable.

I can see where you are coming from, in denying that a woman not being willing to go outside in front of men outside of her family without being covered head to toe isn't a sign of psychosis, but it is.

phobialist.com...

Phobias
Arrhenphobia- Fear of men.
Anthropophobia- Fear of people or society.
Androphobia- Fear of men. I guess there are two types.
Agraphobia- Fear of sexual abuse.
Agoraphobia- Fear of open spaces or of being in crowded, public places like markets. Fear of leaving a safe place.

If you really cared about the women in your family, you might want to do some research, and see if they are suffering from some of these phobias.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by 23432

 

Ah.... but it its not I that is extolling the moral superiority of my culture.
All I`m doing is revealing some uncomfortable truths for others to ponder.

They think might makes it right .

Ponder about that a bit brother , eh ?

Also , I am not hideous in any shape or form , thank you elhamdurillah .



You get my meaning ?

reply to post by Dock9


Jihad watch, most of that nonsense is made up in a tittybar in Texas.
Does anyone take that fiction seriously?

reply to post by 23432


no my brother, you`ve lost me with that one.
Thanks all the same though.

reply to post by gandalphthegrey


Also, if you read the Qur'an, it said that women must be protected from the eyes of men, because men are so very weak because of their lustful desires..(This is VERY true), look at all the cases of sexual abuse, molestation, rape, etc, because there are many men out there who cannot control their darned urges.
Also, there are women who like to tease men with their beauty (so to speak) and many will try to either get a man's attention or get him in trouble by jingling her jewelry and bangles, look at alot of women in other places with such high mini skirts, tons of make-up, flirting with guys whether they are married or not (teasing)....So both sides had issues that were solved by keeping the women covered. Mohammad knew men had a terrible weakness (still do today) and women could be quite undignified (still do today).
The worst part, is many have carried that aspect too far. You not only hear of muslim fanatics, but also christian fanatics, etc. There are always people who change things around to satisfy their own greed and desire for power.

In many households, there are men who abuse their wives and/or kids daily - because they feel powerful - if they did the same stuff to someone on the street, they would get their butt kicked.

Now putting aside the research on the Qur'an, yes, if you go to another country, respect for that culture should be shown, and yes, when enough is enough, laws have to be made. France is doing what it must do, and I agree that in a public setting a common rule should be made. What they do in their own homes or beleifs is their thing.

reply to post by Saracen1


Oh, so you read my post on Page 36, I see

the one containing numerous examples of the ' Religion of Peace'

such as the one about muslims declaring ' war ' and jihad on --- France ! On the whole nation ! Of French people who for some reason believe that as they're French and as they live in France, then they (and not migrants) are entitled to expect migrants to conform to the ways of France

Amazing that, isn't it ?

I mean, it's not as if the French are trying to dictate what muslims do in muslim nations

No. They simply wish to protect their OWN culture, IN their own nation, France

And as you well know, Jihadwatch provides links to the original news reports

Associated Press was one I remember while posting that info

Unless of course, you wish to claim that Associated Press 'make it all up ' too, LOL

As a side note, I am not muslim, but there were so many times I wished men would stop staring at me, undressing me with their eyes, looking at my chest when they are talking to me, and watching my arse as I walk by. I have actually dressed down to casual stuff like sweats and sweat shirt/t-shirt. Sometimes men make women not only uncomfortable but even scared and nervous. It actually feels like a violation knowing what is going on in a (undecent, disrespectful) guys mind. People who knock the burqha, take a moment to think...there are millions of young, innocent kids out there being manhandled by MEN, yes, full grown men who should know better, but yet they seem to have those urges that causes so much trouble, shame, pain,, trauma and death.

Now, I will go back and start reading the pages of this thread. Just had to post.

To those ladies out there who wear or have worn burqhas, you can still dress conservative, without exposing alot. If men do look at you, it is not your fault. You must stand up for yourself and not back down. There are alot of women who HAD to wear those cumbersome, sweaty (in hot summer days) garments. I say, if your husband makes you wear that, then he should go out in the summer heat for a day wearing a Hazmat suit. He will think twice (even if it is only for a moment). But yes, there are also MANY respectful men out there who see women as who they really are - humans. Not some object or possession..

I looked and saw how many pages this thread is, oh boy, I have alot of reading to do. I love ATS, I learn so much.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by Dock9

 

Jihad watch, most of that nonsense is made up in a tittybar in Texas.
Does anyone take that fiction seriously?

Every single piece on that site is checkable

reply to post by triplereiki

.
So, if a girl is wearing a miniskirt it is justified when she is raped? After all, we men cannot help ourselves!

People like you honestly make me sick. This is the exact excuse people use to justify their actions against the sex that cant defend itself against the stronger men. Grow the F up.

reply to post by Dhimmie


Hey dhimme, I swear I`ve come across you before, on another site, Islamwatch I think.

reply to post by nightbringr


You may want to grow up a bit yourself. Wearing a mini skirt (on a adult woman or young girl for that matter) does not justify the actions of what some men will do. The point I make is, there are women out there who wear a mini skirt, look very nice and even professional in business, and then there are those women who wear a mini skirt and flaunt themselves around which even make other women look at them and shake their heads in disgust.
So, on both sides, respect must be not only shown, but given.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by Dock9

 

Jihad watch, most of that nonsense is made up in a tittybar in Texas.
Does anyone take that fiction seriously?

Good defence you have put up there sar. Prove that these stories are false. You cannot. I have friends that are missionaries, (Christian) that know of, or have themselves been forcibly removed from those countries under threat of pain or death. Some didn't make it out.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The ability to make reasonable decisions really depends on the individual.

I began making adult decisions at a very young age myself. If anything, it made me more emotionally mature.

This has nothing to do with age of consent, and everything to do with eliminating the tools used by religious radicals to dominate and control women, and your claims otherwise is straight up denial of reality.

I don't let these debates bother me personally. I respond to the shots others take at me, but rarely take the first shot.

I don't see why it is so hard to believe that I support the burqa ban because it is a tool used for the oppression of womens' rights.

I have talked to plenty of women from Muslim countries, known many people who have traveled in Muslim countries. Never cared to go myself. The story told by nightbringr is one I have heard many times. You might want to consider that I have been around the block a few more times than you have.

Talk to a Muslim woman when her husband is not around and she will tell you that she doesn't like to wear clothes that cover her from head to toe. Outside of the Arabian desert, nobody wants to dress like that. You are carrying around some serious denial here about obvious realities.

First you make these comment.

I can respect someone saying "Hey I honestly don't like the Burka, I think it's ugly, and I stops me from checking out of the woman underneath it is pretty to look at".

That's an honest statement, I don't agree with it, but I can respect someone who just honestly comes out and states a preference.

All the phony baloney excuses and reasons you are coming up with are really just that phony baloney excuses and reasons.

And then you make this comment.

I at least know when I am coming across like an obnoxious self centered narcissist with mysoginsitic tendencies and can admit it.

Do you really? Because you have made a lot of pretty bad assumptions about me.

First you assume that I am naive, then you make this side claim that my real problem is that I want to eyeball Middle Eastern women. That is pretty cheap. Then you call my points phony baloney excuses.

Normally, you are a pretty reasonable guy, but for some reason you are way out there on this subject.

There is nothing phony baloney about being disgusted by the way some Muslims treat their women. They look at women as completely inferior, and actually blame and punish women for the crime of getting raped. That is insane, and completely contrary to Western beliefs. While you want to embrace the politically correct attitude of looking the other way, I will not.

If you really think women are inferior to men, then that is too bad, because you are living in delusion.

reply to post by IronArm



You prove that they`re true, and don`t gimme that old story about some mate somewhere.
There are millions of christians living in muslim lands. Even western christians are moving to muslim countries.

Your gonna have a hard time convince them not to retire to Islamic places.

Woman totally covered with a sheet?
its to say she is property.
some male owns her.
and only he can look at her.
like when they cut out her 'V'
so she can not feel any joy in sex.
so she can not find some one
who would giver her good sex.
he does not need to ask
"was it good for you to?"
for these men women are property.

reply to post by triplereiki


What i took acception to was your implication that men cannot control themselves, and your statement that the "wise" (pedophile), Mohammed knew that men couldnt help themselves, so he made women wear burkas for their own good.

Wtf? If you would like ill go back and copy and paste your statements. Of course he would know, he did consumate his marriage with an 8 year old girl.

Originally posted by Saracen1
reply to post by IronArm

 

You prove that they`re true, and don`t gimme that old story about some mate somewhere.
There are millions of christians living in muslim lands. Even western christians are moving to muslim countries.

Your gonna have a hard time convince them not to retire to Islamic places.

Yeah, this is true. Some of them really like the warmth, and just stay away from the radicals. Millions of white people, not nessisarily Christians move there.

Also, did you not just read the previous post by dock? Prove that there are not Muslims killing in vicious attacks, then we can go from there.

And at what point to you stop to see where the Christians are currently murdering Muslims in their own homes in England? White people at all for that matter based on your belief systems?

reply to post by IronArm


Why are you so hung up about white people?
I`m not suggesting "white people" are killing muslims.
The Western countries are killing them in their millions, this is irrefutable.
No doubt their armies have all races serving in their ranks, particularly US/uk.

Yes you may point to a terrorist killing here or there, but for sheer scale of murders, death and destruction, you cannot compare it to the western dogs of war.