6 Year Old Girl groped by New Orleans TSA.This Has To Stop...

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by mishigas

 

My guess? You'd apologize for the real perps and march out the same tired arguments that it was the fault of 'tyranny and TPTB'.

Far from being an educated guess, sport, you are just one more sycophant of tyranny excusing the disparagement of rights in the name of fear.

There is no need to apologize for any criminality in order to assert my rights. It is a failed logic to assert that because I do not accept that I must surrender my rights so that you may harbor a delusion of safety that this becomes some sort of advocacy of criminality. The fact of the matter is that when people like you argue that rights must be surrendered so that you can feel safe, and the excuse is due to some act of terrorism that happened over a decade ago, not only has the crime of terrorism been perpetrated, albeit more than a decade ago, but now the crime of trampling all over individual rights is also perpetrated.

While there are many lunatics who have brilliant minds, there are also plenty of stupid lunatics, and they are the least tolerable of all.

All this talk of tyranny, rights and lots of big words. You do understand that airports are under federal control and they can stop you and search you for no apparent reason... Right? It's been that way as long as I can remember.

And also, you never answered my question. a or b?

Originally posted by jstanthrno1
I posted this on another of my favorite sites and everybody seems ok with it....

I think its absurd and cannot believe the governments goal of FEAR is actually succeeding.

Terrorist will sneak in bombs on children!!! My ass!!! That girl will feel feal eeverything she sees someone with a badge and thats exactly what they want.

But they will feel safe flying regardless of the’ Judas blood line’ that wants nothing but a slip up ,so it can be on the news as passengers will one day lose there lives because of people complaining over safety.

Its utterly funny ,because people aren’t looking at if this measure was put in before 911,then 3000 + people wouldn’t of lost there lives, but once a Judas always a Judas, the apple doesn’t fall to far from the tree, And neither does the blood line of hate, and wanting something to happen.

When I read threads like this, I can then count how many evil people are on this earth, it’s really sad, but I guess when you don’t fly, you really don’t care, and you really wouldn’t understand the safety issue as a whole.
Some people love misery ,some people love the 911s that happen and bring misery to the innocent, so I guess it is wrong for them to pat the ill girl down, some people will love to see another 911,not just love, but are wishing it will happen…it wont happen again, thanks to the new design of safety.

Point blank, if this safety input was put into place before 911, then 3000 plus Americans wouldn’t of died, let alone 50,000 troops being disabled for life, and over 4000 troops who have died in the war. So for the moment we can stop the devil and the Judas blood lines from further more terrorist acts from happening…………………………….PERIOD !
NO MORE REPLIES FROM PEOPLE THAT THINK ITS WRONG WHAT TSA IS DOING .

Your creeping me out!!!!
But then again,if jesus was betrayed why not your fellow human...huh ??

Why dont you all get together and picket, so the safty of your fellow humans can deminish to the low 20% of safty.you would love that huh?

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

There are already cases in the middle east of women and teenagers wearing bombs. To think that a really determined bad guy wouldn't use a child is naive.

There was the discovery of an attempt to use a "womb bomb" overseas several years ago. And there was the discovery of communications that revealed efforts to recruit western-looking individuals, to circumvent profiling by our security forces.

And so much more that we have no inkling of...

Something I haven't seen in this thread is the mention of what lead to people wearing bombs. Pretty much boils down to people with destroyed lives that want to get even. They can't wage an "official" war like the wealthy countries. Maybe the solution to this whole situation is to stop killing people that our government tells us too. Violence begets violence.

The poverty in most of the mideast and Africa is staggering. That makes for easy fishing grounds for terrorist groups. They have no jobs, no food, no nothing. We should be helping them learn to be self-sufficient instead of being warmongers.

Problem is, we help them plant food. We turn our back and al Qaeda comes in and burns the villages and slaughters the people.

reply to post by Immortalgemini527


Keep dreaming there bub. Back when 9/11 happened, metal detectors and xray scans were in all airports... Funny how they miraculously all got box cutters on the flight. Last year a dude accidently brought a loaded gun on a flight... Time and time again they fail, even thought they are radiating and molesting people.... You ARE NOT any safer, you are being conditioned to accept being violated, and to lick the feet of uniformed people.

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard

All this talk of tyranny, rights and lots of big words. You do understand that airports are under federal control and they can stop you and search you for no apparent reason... Right? It's been that way as long as I can remember. And also, you never answered my question. a or b?

If you are paying attention to what I am saying, I am undoubtedly questioning the imagined authority the federal government has in claiming control of airports. I have and will continue to steadfastly argue that all of this government control is about nothing other than aggregation of power.

Further, you do understand that on 9/11 the federal government claimed control of the airways and airports then, don't you? You do understand that one snafu after another led to the tragedy of 9/11, don't you? You do understand that government failed miserably then, and the next time they fail miserably there excuse will be they do not have enough power. This is their game. Competent incompetence.

As to your question you asked, either you are referring to the initial rhetorical question I responded to and you clearly failed to discern my answer to that, or you asked some other question I missed in this thread. If it is the initial question, which was a hypothetical asking what people would do if a six year old boarded an American airplane and killed all the crew and passengers, then let me make this perfectly clear, this does not in anyway change the existence of natural and unalienable rights of people.

Rights are not malleable concepts invented by humans, they are natural phenomena that exist in the same way that gravity exists, in the same way that the laws of motion exist and in the same way that the 2nd law of thermodynamics exist.

When people use human tragedy as an excuse to dismiss the rights of people this makes the person using the tragedy an opportunist, and the opportunity they are seeking is power. Power over other people. Controlling other people. It is a highly cynical view of humanity that is no where near representative of the goodness of humanity. Yes there are evil people in the world, but just because there are, this does not excuse more evil. Evil people trample other peoples rights. It is just more evil to argue that rights must be trampled in order to prevent evil people from trampling rights.

All people have certain rights. These rights preexist government, they are not given to people by governments. I understand there are far too many people all too willing to surrender their rights, for whatever reasons. This is precisely why the founders of the United States established a Constitutional republic, not a democracy, but a republic to restrain the majority from using politics as a way to disparage the rights of minorities. There is no greater minority than that of the individual. No matter who tragic events get, I will never ever cry for a collective surrendering of rights, and I have no respect for individuals who surrender their rights. That is your answer. I do not care if you agree with it or not.

reply to post by mishigas


Not to mention that just about every conflict we've entered into has been against Muslims. The recent support of Muslims in Libya is the exception.

reply to post by dragonsmusic


Everyone should realize that they are not patting you down in the airport for bombs, that is what the machines that sniff out explosives that are all over the airport do.

These types of body searches are done looking for drugs.

I am not saying that that by ANY means excuses what we just saw, but it is worth saying that the TSA person was NOT looking for explosives.

Originally posted by kathael
Either there's too much security or when something happens there isn't enough. I agree that it is pretty much taboo for this. I work in this industry and we have been informed via internal memorandums that there was an incident in England where a mother had strapped an IED on her child, whether that's true or not or just created to condone additional screening, it's still terrible. It's really sad to see what this world is coming to..

However, I would like to add that this TSA agent went about her job very professionally and made every attempt to explain the procedure to the family and the girl as it continued, and no, it's not a drug test (like stated by the mother at 1:25). Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.

edit on 10-4-2011 by kathael because:

The stated intent and the actual intent are often not the same.

The TSA person likely doesn't know WHY they do things, they only know that they must do things because that is what they are told to do. Just like any other job.

They have no reason to pat the child down for bombs, but it is well known that parents use their children to traffic drugs because they are not as likely to get searched.

Anyone who believe this is for explosives needs to sit back and think about that for a minute.

Originally posted by TKDRL
Keep dreaming there bub. Back when 9/11 happened, metal detectors and xray scans were in all airports... Funny how they miraculously all got box cutters on the flight. Last year a dude accidently brought a loaded gun on a flight... Time and time again they fail, even thought they are radiating and molesting people....

Wow, so according to your "logic", if security fails, or makes a mistake, or someone finds a hole in the security, then ALL security is useless? I guess we can get rid of all firefighters, police, doctors, etc., because one time firefighters failed to put out a fire, and police officers failed to stop a crime, and doctors were not able to save a life.... They are all useless since they have failed before... That is idiotic...

9/11 happened because security was not very high.

That "loaded gun" that accidentally got on the flight happened because the bag holding the gun didn't go through a metal detector but only an x-ray machine that is watched by a TSA agent, and the agent didn't see it. It was a human error...

Both of your examples could have been prevented by higher and better security at airports.

Originally posted by TKDRL
You ARE NOT any safer,

Yes, we are safer. Increasing security decreases the available methods that lunatics can take advantage of.

It's like a house with many doors. The more doors you close and lock, the more secure and safe the inside of the house is from intruders. Not every door can be closed and locked, but not every door is the same size, so if you close all the big doors then intruders have to try to go through the smaller more difficult doors which increases the chances of detection and intruder error. Increased security also demoralizes the intruders.

So you are wrong yet again... an increase in security does cause an increase in safety. That is just common sense too...

Originally posted by TKDRL
you are being conditioned to accept being violated, and to lick the feet of uniformed people.

It seems more like you suffer from a psychosis, and you have created this illusion of some big bad monster trying to "condition you" and make you "lick feet of uniformed people".

I think your fears of a big bad monster government are blinding you from reality and common sense.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


Wow. So much to respond to... Let's start with rights. This term is something we are taught. Nothing natural about getting on a plane and flying. Someone else owns the planes. Somebody else regulates the way they operate airports. If you want to fly, get in line and play by their rules. Otherwise choose another mode of transportation. You do not have the right to simply walk on a plane unhindered. You have to pay for a ticket that has all sorts of rules on it about how you can use the ticket. In effect, you are purchasing the "right" to fly, nothing else.

Going on and on about tyranny and using that tone you use, be real. Face the reality that you are granted access to air travel and unless you follow the rules of those granting you that access, you will have that access revoked. Fair? Maybe, maybe not. But that's besides the point. Face it. You are not in charge.

Back to rights. Consider that, man, however it happened, appeared on earth. As a living being man has the ability to make decisions and reason. The human race has used their ability to exercise what you call their rights and we've managed to wreak havoc and destruction on the earth and each other. In my book these rights we've been exercising are mostly selfish attempts to separate ourselves from any responsibility for the actions of the whole. If we'd stop insisting that we are individuals with the right to pursue our own agenda, and started focusing on helping each other and taking responsibility for the problems we create, the world, and that little girl would be better off. But no. We all scream about rights while we take part in destroying ourselves and the earth.

You have no right other than to take responsibility for Your part in perpetuating the delusion if individuality.

I'll sit back and watch the stones fly as many will react negatively to the thought they had any part in creating the situation we find ourselves in....


Peace to you all.

Originally posted by SRTkid86

Originally posted by kathael
Either there's too much security or when something happens there isn't enough. I agree that it is pretty much taboo for this. I work in this industry and we have been informed via internal memorandums that there was an incident in England where a mother had strapped an IED on her child, whether that's true or not or just created to condone additional screening, it's still terrible. It's really sad to see what this world is coming to..

However, I would like to add that this TSA agent went about her job very professionally and made every attempt to explain the procedure to the family and the girl as it continued, and no, it's not a drug test (like stated by the mother at 1:25). Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.

edit on 10-4-2011 by kathael because:

The stated intent and the actual intent are often not the same.

The TSA person likely doesn't know WHY they do things, they only know that they must do things because that is what they are told to do. Just like any other job.

They have no reason to pat the child down for bombs, but it is well known that parents use their children to traffic drugs because they are not as likely to get searched.

Anyone who believe this is for explosives needs to sit back and think about that for a minute.

edit on 4/13/11 by SRTkid86 because: (no reason given)

Anyone who believe this is for explosives needs to sit back and think about that for a minute

After sitting back and thinking for a minute.
Anybody who believes 5 or more terrorist with box cutters could cause the 911 event should sit back and think about it for a minute… DAMN, it already happened.
UMM>>>>>
Any body who believes a man with a shoe bomb could,,DAMN IT,THAT ALREADY HAPPENED TO.

TextBetween 1948 and 1957 there were 15 hijackings worldwide, an average of a little more than one per year. Between 1958 and 1967, this climbed to 48, or about five per year. The number grew to 38 in 1968 and 82 in 1969, the largest number in a single year in the history of civil aviation; in January 1969 alone, eight airliners were hijacked to Cuba.[4] Between 1968 and 1977, the annual average jumped to 41.

TextSeptember 11 presented an unprecedented threat because it involved suicide hijackers who could fly an aircraft. The "Common Strategy" approach was not designed to handle suicide hijackings, and the hijackers were able to exploit a weakness in the civil aviation security system. Since then the "Common Strategy" policy has no longer been used

Its allot of souls that wish airport security was strengthened when they was alive, and are litterly rolling over in their graves by looking at this thread on safety.
The American airways are safer now, safer.

Click here for more information.

There are more ways to smuggle a weapon onboard an aircraft then just through the security, baggage handlers, cleaners and airport staff are still just as likely to get something past.

Correct me if I'm wrong, haven't the last "terrorists " attacks on airports been very different then what TSA have planned for. For example the

2007 Glasgow International Airport attack

...a dark green Jeep Cherokee loaded with propane canisters was driven into the glass doors of the Glasgow International Airport terminal and set ablaze.
en.wikipedia.org...


Domodedovo airport bombing-RUSSIA

A SUICIDE bomber has killed at least 35 people and wounded more than 130 others this morning.
...an explosion went off in the international arrivals hall of Domodedovo airport," the Russian investigative committee said in a statement.

www.news.com.au...

We can go "pat down" (violate) 6 year olds and shoot potentially harmful radiation at pregnant mothers all in the name of airport safety.
As you can see this would will not stop someone wanting to blow you up

Were better of getting some more sniffer dog squads, a few psychologists around the airport to observe suspect behavior.

From my understanding the airline owns the planes and the TSA are only a government agency who enforce this rule, not a private company.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Wow, so are we supposed to pretend you even have a clue as to what logic is?

Wow, are we supposed to pretend you even have a clue, period?

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
The point that TKDRL is making is that no matter how many rights you and other petty tyrants trample upon, the security you use as the promise of exchange for those rights will never be fulfilled.

TKDRL does't have a valid point... and neither do you. All you have done is insulted me and others and called them "petty tyrants" because you erroneously and ignorantly concluded that your rights are being taken away.

Tell me, was your right to travel and fly taken away? NO IT WAS NOT. You can still travel and fly.

Was your right to be secure in your persons from illegal search and seizure taken away? NO IT WAS NOT. Nothing is "taken"... you must give your consent to a search. If you don't give your consent they you are not searched. If you don't give your consent then you also can not board the aircraft because it invalidates your aircraft ticket. If you want to fly you can still fly but you have to fly on PRIVATE aircraft, not PUBLIC aircraft. Nobody is forcing you to fly on public aircraft but your own self.

Since you can't even fathom the idiocy of your arguments, I really don't see a reason to reply to you.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
If you and the other petty tyrants cannot devise a security system that respects the rights of people then get the hell out of the way and let someone who has a clue make a go of it.

Do you even see your own ignorance?

A "security system that respects the rights of people" is what we already have. The security system goes as follows; You give your consent to a search, or you don't get on the aircraft. If people give their consent, then no rights are violated or "taken". How do you not know this? Maybe because you are clueless?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


I'm sure your a pleasant person in real life but you come off pretty rude. You managed at least 4 insults in that last post.

Don't feel so hostile. This is only a discussion. You can be passionate but name calling and derision is just mean and detracts from taking you seriously.

What I'm saying is a fundamental truth. Maybe I can't express it in words well I can try.

The guy selling you the ticket has rights too. Read that tickets fine print. Read the signs in the airport explaining federal jurisdiction. Entering an airport may be something you desire to do, but you do so at the expense of the desires of those in charge that have a rulebook, or selling the service. Rights aren't things that apply to everything you desire to do. You attempt to act out intent and are free to. But there is no guarantee in the natural world that you will ever be able to exercise all of your intent or desire at any time you want to. Like some aisan guy said, life is suffering.

We created this system. If we really want to we can change it but not by complaining about rights. We can fix it by unlearning all we think we know and starting anew with positive intent.

Right now I exploit the violation of some beings rights, as you term them, by typing up this message. Somebodys rights were violated in the acquisition, manufacture or sale of the equipment im using. You violate someones rights every time you go to the store.

Asserting that you have the "right" to do any thing, assumes that nothing should ever interfere. This simply isn't so.

The USA is founded on a system that is an avenue and even allows profiting by violation of somebodys basic human right. You willingly contribute too and take advantage of this system if you live there. Wether you know it or not.

So since when has this country been keen on what they call rights? They haven't. All i hear about is having them takin away.

Rights are something we were taught we should have but that someone would always try to take them away. I don't buy it. We have the responsibility to make the best of our lives and our reality but we fail miserably by being self centered, complaining, fighting and finger pointing.

Notice I said we. I'm as guilty as the next guy. Maybe someone will read this and connect with what I'm saying.

And to think it all started by wondering what would be said if they didn't search kids and one walked on a plane wearing a bomb undetected.


Peace

Originally posted by Frogs
That wasn't about security. That was about conditioning and training. Conditioning and training that whatever the government wants to do is "for your own good".

Thats EXACTLY what I think it was cause notice how LONG she took for that. A pat down can be performed in about 10 seconds or less to find a weapon on you. I know. I have been in jail before and was use to it on a daily basis like come back from like the road crew picking up bottles n cans (trustee). Thats all it could be is to train us to submit to authority. Now take a good look at this vid folks. THIS is how cops act behind closed doors. They are God you are nothing and you will do every thing they say and if you resist? They will just call for 3 more cops to back then up and if you still resist? They just beat you till you submit. All this police state stuff REALLY is they are becoming more open and public with things they have been doing behind closed doors forever. You think they talk bad to ya when they pull you over you have no idea how they talk to you when your behind cement walls out of the public eye. And they train cops to be this way too. If ever they get a good cop who tries to be fair and polite the other cops will dog him until he quits.

reply to post by reeferman
Muslims are subject to different and BETTER standards than we terrifically less suspect? WTF?!?

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard The Constitution is being broken for security of exactly who? Not me, bubba. We know that the various shoe/underwear sorts are being USHERED onto the airplanes regardless of their qualifications to fly. We know that 9/11, the supposed root cause of this police state, is as BS as any false flag operation ever.

To defend the rights of the public authorities and publicly owned corporations to inflict their will upon us is BS also.

I am supposed to have the ability to travel freely anywhere I choose. I have the right to go unmolested unless their is DUE CAUSE for suspicion of my person.

So they can butt the hell out.

reply to post by Mike.Ockizard