It's time for mankind to break his Earthly bonds. Commercialise space and let NASA die!

I think we did, but we forgot to or we just left behind a few individuals. Hence our present day predicament. Apollo 20 found and brought back some ancient and not so ancient artifacts. The usual debunkers will appear soon enough.

Just check the NASA archives at Arizona State University. Its "ALMOST" all there.

reply to post by Kratos40


I have an idea! Let's go find it ourselves in space. We don't need Arizona to hold artifacts for us to look at. We can venture out and do it ourselves

reply to post by SLAYER69


Great thread, S&F, but..

Well, I'll answer with if we privatized space "We" wouldn't be spending money on it. [Tax Dollars - Not using Tax payers money while running up larger debt. ]. "They" would be. Meaning Corporations and Private citizens. They would be spending their money and hiring people to accomplish these multitude of tasks while simultaneously generating tax revenue that would help pay for all the variously needed social programs which would also accelerate R & D of newer technologies that we are presently playing with or only using for military applications.

..I doubt this will happen in near future. There is much talk about commercial and private spaceflight lately, and for a good reason. Just look at SpaceX, they developed new rocket and capsule for less than a billion, while NASA struggles to develop Ares I for 8 billion.

But in the end, it is payed for mostly by taxpayer money, too (nasa COTS and CCDEV programs). There is simply not much profit to be made in spaceflight without government money, with the exception of launching commercial satelites (and this market is worth just a few billion a year worldwide).

That said, with companies like SpaceX, SpaceDev, Bigelow Aerospace, Ad Astra, or ULA, there is something like a small revolution happening currently in spaceflight. That is where the money should go, not to the moloch that is NASA (with all due respect for its past achievements).

The future of spaceflight is brighter than we think!

reply to post by GaryN


or perhaps they fear us what we may become or create.
A galactic empire Dominant among other races
using earth standards we kill what we fear, and we were made in there image right?

reply to post by Kratos40


So you're referring to this?
link

Not to derail this thread or anything, but I find this quite interesting. Never heard about an Apollo 20 conspiracy before.

reply to post by Maslo


NASA is stupid. ATS members should form the next space program and rule the world of space flight and exploration.

Originally posted by Kratos40
reply to post by internos

 

Good show Internos! That is what I like. Sometimes I have to tease this out of people in order to promote a good argument and further elucidate evidence for the sake of the subject in question.

I have analyzed the LPI/NASA images and there seems to be two shadows cast by two individual objects. But lets just focus on "The Whale", the cigar shaped one for now. It's triangular partner will come later because obfuscation has been used to conceal the other derelict ship and I will elucidate more on this later on.

The following evidence seems to show a striking similarity when you overlap the "Rutledge" footage with what is available at the LPI website:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/565bda9666ee.jpg[/atsimg]

These landmarks seem too close and precise to be made by a hoaxer (insert Speth/Scantamburlo here):

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5f30da7e3680.jpg[/atsimg]

If you mix the pixelation from the two sources you get this:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/55a968dc1e1d.jpg[/atsimg]

But what a coincidence that someone would choose the date of August 16th, 1976 to be the launch date of this supposed "Apollo 20" mission, when a few days earlier Luna 24 (E-8-5M-412) with its undeclared Lunokhod rover launch on August 9th, 1976 (Ref. www.zarya.info...). So guess what you see outside of the Phoenix lander?...the Lunokhod rover with a NASA moon rover in the middle ground:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2613a2a67258.jpg[/atsimg]

But I will agree with you that "The City" video is a hoax, and any one could have planted this as disinformation. In observing such clues, there seems to be a similar structure at top left of the following video screenshots:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2613a2a67258.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8da0cd072686.png[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3defb8734168.png[/atsimg]
As much as I miss debating Internos (May he/her rest in piece) and I think this is why "we never returned"....

Sure looks a lot like Hoagland's (?) Moon Cathedral doesn't it?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/71a05c61e4f7.jpg[/atsimg]

This is a long way from being a hoax. We just have to separate the wheat from the schaff...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/26591964428b.jpg[/atsimg]

Our science fiction used to read, way back in the day, of moon bases and colonies on Mars. The early Heinlein comes mostly to mind. It set us to dreaming. We dreamed of the brightest and best going out risking their lives to carry mankind into the future. The explorers and adventurers we dreamed of came from the history we had taught ourselves. We took Columbus and sent him to the moon and Magellan on to Mars. We fancied Edison building us rocket-ships and Bell inventing moon colonies and all it took was the engineers, the welders, the steamfitters, and the mechanics who had built Hoover Damn and the Empire State to go out and build.

Heady days for dreaming.

The Russians made orbit and the dream went public. No longer was it just scientists and sic/fi fans who dreamed, but a nation. We dreamed our way to the moon, and then we woke up. In our dreams it was all free. Free because all in the dream worked for the greater good and in the end, all were rewarded from the bounty of the future.

We woke up because the moon is harsh. Ask Heinlein. We jerked awake and sat up, eyes wide open because the moon was not only harsh but barren. We'd known it but we had been dreaming. There was no pot of gold, no treasure chest to split amongst the daring and intrepid star farers. We awoke and understood that the adventure and glory were only for some and then only through the sacrifice of the rest.

In 1951, "When Worlds Collide" had suggested this to us, that we would have to kill each other so a few could go on. No one wanted to listen.

As we awoke from our national dream , some began to cry foul as we noticed the finances were mounting and the profit was beyond the horizon but we pushed on anyway, inch by inch. As we did, our science fiction changed.

Sic/fi moved on farther and farther into the future, while our space efforts crawled. It foresaw innumerable futures spreading from one end of the solar system to the other and on out across the galaxy. While some of our best sic/fi speculators traveled the stars others stayed home and focused not just on technological futures but social and economic futures as well. They began looking at futures which took into account the growing information being presented to the pool of human knowledge by the expanding sciences of psychology, ecology, sociology and so many others. While those who traveled to the stars continued in glory, those who stayed at home were presenting a much bleaker perspective of the near future.

The British movie "Things to Come" brought the H.G? Wells story to the screen in 1936 depicting not a smooth transition into space but one fraught with peril and social unrest. Through the 50's and 60's this perspective was pretty much over looked. It came home to roost in the fiction of the late sixties , seventies and eighties. A common theme that ran through the stories of this period was that of the bottle neck. The hour glass. That period where the flow of human history undergoes traumatic change pressure and turmoil before it manages to reorganize itself and finds it's way to the stars. Another common suggestion at this time was the suggestion of the OP. That government was not capable of the continued expansion into space and that individual entrepreneurs would be needed to make that transition.

Well folks from where I stand we are here. The throat of the hour glass, the neck of the bottle. Not enough of us trust government for government to be able to focus the minds and resources of the nation to get us established in space before we self destruct. Likewise we now understand enough about the economic system to know that even though a few may profit by near earth orbit enterprise, those in control of most of the worlds wealth have no interest in long term gain. They are focused on short term profit and there is little to no short term profit in space for long long time.

There is little on the moon to help us and the profit is to far away. There is nothing on Mars or Venus to help us and no profit.

Without help from outside we are stuck here. There is nowhere to go. We are isolated. Imprisoned in a gravity well so far from anything else we might exploit that to even dream it is futile.

Once again, baring outside help or some huge scientific breakthrough we will remain here until we get ourselves organized and go about this in an adult and mature manner.

But first the bottleneck.

reply to post by Kratos40


Whoa! That's fascinating...hope it isn't all a hoax :/

Originally posted by Ihsahn
reply to post by Kratos40

 

Whoa! That's fascinating...hope it isn't all a hoax :/

The usual debunkers will arrive soon. But a group of us did enough research to conclude that these anomalies are real structures and the Clementine data actually is hiding data. Do the research and it will open your eyes.

reply to post by Kratos40


I've been doing just that in the past couple minutes. Thanks for sharing that with me!

reply to post by meathed

I agree, but i dont agree. If you know what i mean
I understand that we have stuffed this world up. But what if some private company can get to another world.
And the company said they want humans to help populate this new world.
And that #1 That this new worlds energy will be run off renewable / green resource's,
#2 and that on this new world no violence will be tolerated or you are sent back to earth.
#3 what if on the new world that all religious faiths had to be practiced behind closed doors, and that if any religion tries to force another to follow their religion they get sent back to earth too.
Would you come then??

First off. What are companys all about ? Companys only exist for profit. And I'm not even going to entertain this
Sci fi dream. You can't honestly even hope for such a thing. And people think believing in God is weird. I just get more comfortable with all the time. What if they just tell you, you're going to a land filled with breast milk and sex and honey do. Then when you get there ? You find out they ment to serve man alright. Just not the way you thought.

Been awile since that happened. Double post.

reply to post by Ihsahn


Yes it does, but you must muddle between the disinformation that was presented right after the initial footage was uploaded to YouTube. Do your research.

Originally posted by kid_cudi
reply to post by Maslo

 

NASA is stupid. ATS members should form the next space program and rule the world of space flight and exploration.

NASA is stupid, but it has the money. Private companies are wise and innovative, but they do not have the money.

The solution? Use NASA money to buy what you need from private companies (like COTS and CCDEV programs).

sometime way down the line, sure, but we have zero freaking business playing in space right now. it's a complete nightmare, and we are still using primitive technology to explore it (rockets...?). and re-entry is another joke.
i agree that space exploration would be absolutely amazing, but is the final frontier for a reason.

i know this is a really stupid way to relate to this subject, but having spent some time on this site, i have read about the "galactic federation", which let me just clarify, i don't believe in at all, but their supposed message is indeed profound: that we can't leave our planet and represent earth until it is peaceful, unified, and safe.

it's far from that. i otherwise love your threads and stuff, but disagree with this one for the time being. i also don't think we should think of space as a source of commerce... money itself being probably the number one issue, if not number two, next to religion, with our planet, and not to mention that we can only call OUR planet our own, and we don't know what will happen to us if we start taking from other planets, E-SPECIALLY if it's in the name of rebuilding earth that we knowingly helped destroy. that's just crazy selfish.

While I too like to dream of spaceflight It is hard to imagine how we are going to get there when astronauts have these types of problems just in LEO...

Along with the rest of the criteria that make for a good astronaut–some heavy degrees in science or technology, a tolerance for cramped spaces and freeze-dried food–let’s add another one. The ideal astronaut should have narrow hands to prevent his or her fingernails from falling off. National Geographic reports that the design of astronauts’ space suit gloves can lead to hand and finger injuries, including an icky condition called fingernail delamination in which the nail completely detaches from the nailbed. While missing nails do grow back in time, if the nail falls off in the middle of a spacewalk it can snag inside the glove, and moisture inside the glove can lead to bacterial or fungal infections in the exposed nailbed.
MIT astronautics professor Dava Newman told National Geographic that astronauts take this medical prospect seriously: For now, the only solutions are to apply protective dressings, keep nails trimmed short—or do some extreme preventative maintenance.

“I have heard of a couple people who’ve removed their fingernails in advance of an EVA,” Newman said.

The problem begins when the astronaut’s space suit is pressurized for a spacewalk (more technically called an extravehicular activity, or EVA), which makes the flexible fabric of the gloves hard and stiff. Newman decided to determine how these rigid gloves could make fingernails fall off, and found to her surprise that fingernail delamination was not linked to the length of astronauts’ fingers, which would cause more contact between the nails and the glove. Instead, astronauts with wide hands reported losing the most nails on the job. Her study, to be published in a forthcoming issue of the journal Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine, focused on measurements of the metacarpophalangeal joint, where the fingers meet the palm. Peter Homer, who runs the commercial space suit design company Flagsuit LLC and who has studied astronaut gloves in great detail, told National Geographic that Newman’s findings make sense.
“The bigger the hand is, the more the glove squeezes on [the metacarpophalangeal] joint and cuts off blood flow.” Circulation getting repeatedly shut off then restored at the knuckle joint would damage the tissue underneath the fingernail, leading to delamination. It could also explain why so many astronauts have reported that their fingertips get cold during EVAs despite their thermal gloves, Homer said.

Source: blogs.discovermagazine.com...

I can't help but find some kind of dark humor with the idea that theses guys are willing to remove their own fingernails rather than go through the tortures of LEO and the brutality induced by the equipment it takes to hang out there. So considering this how do you suppose we are going to get to mars?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
The private space industry was going to overtake public at some point anyway. There's just more money and professional resource available in the private sector.

Look at the Virgin guy and all the stuff they've done in the past 5 years compared the NASA. Besides, NASA has far too much red tape to do anything " game changing" in the industry for another 20 years.

And Slayer, can you take it easy on the crazy quality threads, my star/flag fingers are starting to hurt

~Keeper

if it turns commercial imagine all the people seeing what the governments all ready have out there+on the moon.

reply to post by randyvs


Well we will just leave you on earth with the rest of them then.
Your loss.

We are on it!

Not sure if anyone already mentioned this:

Dutch space port