It's time for mankind to break his Earthly bonds. Commercialise space and let NASA die!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Star and Flag slayer, as per the norm, your post is delightful to read. I agree with you for the most part, but I think that NASA still has a roll to play. I have ever confidance that we will see interstellar travle before three thousand rolls over. Which is awesome considering what our race was doing in the year 1000. I for one am hoping that the nerd rapture (Tech Singularity) happens and we all get nanomechanical bodies and can then sight see the universe at will.

NOTE: Sorry about the spelling, I'm playing Eve right now and dont feel like comming out of the game to do a spell check.

The dreaded free market": Branson Rutan et al are the answer.

I liked O..P.s'movie reference: a long time sci- fi junkie I can add a few
"op's credit: ""moon": h3 mining...
Kubrick's 2001 a space odyssey ( pan am airline logos everywhere)
"silent Running" :"American airlines "space freighters" hauling domes with different environments"remnants of earths last forests.: ( a long time favorite)
"Aliens": Sigourney Weaver( ripley)s "nostromo" was a commercial tug.
"Outland":sean connery sheriffs a corporate mining outpost.
I'm sure theres more.
We are forever attached at the hip to corporations.

The "one world govt thing" could go horribly wrong for a million little unforeseeable reasons.I wish I could accept it as the benevolent.system it is billed to be.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by PixelDuster

No... but you need connections. Also consider it's the PTB and the Elite that are going to be your companions

And you will need to pick up one of these babies; the Mars1 Humvee

Oh dear, oh dear! Dreams dashed! Connections are lacking...

Would it be those types of folk really? I know you know more than most about this sort of thing, but I'd thought that the volunteers were to be culled from amongst a group of any of "us" wacky enough to go... ah, well, not sure I could dwell forever with Elite PTBs.

You thinkin' they want Mars as well as Earth?

Man, I'd sic a fluke-armed "rock" on 'em! Maybe two!

Oh, as to that Humvee... might be interesting. The ones I see around here are usually not too good at being able to successfully pass a gas station, though... what'll we do up there?

Peace,
Pixel

Nope
I can't agree with this at all Slayer. I don't feel we belong in space, until we can at least take care of our own
planet. We start mess'in up out there, the way we have our own home? I think you of all people should know where i'm coming from. Look at us right now. The planets close to being devestated and everybody is looking for some place to run. Well do you think we deserve an easy way out? I don't. I think we deserve what we get. That's how things will most likely be too.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Soulsofwe

 

Well some could argue that if more of us got up out into space and looked back on Earth the first thing they would notice is A. How small our planet really is and B. The fact that there are no imaginary artificial boundaries or lines signifying individual countries and reaffirming that we are all one species.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/31f2ab7da784.jpg[/atsimg]

Sorry, but i thought that what you said needed to be repeated. And its not only the points you raised, but also, How quickly could that little world come to a cataclysmic end at the hands of a really really big space rock from the heavens .

Private space research is the only way to go for space travell, NASA must die. We have followed our governments and there agencies for to long, we have be taught to believe that the Leaders will drive us in the right direction, we have been taught to believe, to follow them and to have trust in TPTB, as they are supposed to know which is the right path to take and which moral decisions to make as we head down the path of life, only to find out that the Idiots in-charge has just lead us all down another dead end street.
Its time to take the drivers seat and kick these idiot leaders out of the car. Its time to set our sights to the stars. To infinity and beyond .
And the only way we will get there is through private funding.
NASA has proved that they cant take photos with smudging and or misplacing all of the good photo's
NASA has lost a few of their space cars at the parking lot of space on more than one occasion, only to have them say i lost the car, but....... it happens But we are still looking for it

So.......
Could you imagine sitting on anything made by NASA? Their track record speaks for its self
Could you imagine giving NASA a blank check every year for them to squander on Bad photos, on equipment that fails.
Could you imagine giving NASA's money to hire sane people through their strict selection process, only to pick an astronauts that would suddenly snap, stick an adult diaper on and drive have way around the country to try to murder a lover of another astronaut that she loved.
No......... wait a minute... NASA does do that........ and you DO give them blank cheque's and all of the above has happened.... Sorry, i forgot.

Its time to leave NASA behind and trust the privateers on this one.

Well Slayer another well thought out thread.I have to agree with you. Private is the way to go. There is much profit to be made in space. The moon in particular since we already know that we can get there. Mars with some terraforming can start to be a new home for mankind. Certianly this will take some time. We should not forget all the new technology that has come from the present space program. However NASA has seen better days and now finds itself mired in the bureaucracy that sooner or later takes over any government program. I sometimes wonder what will happen when we get to the asteroid belt where the resources are likely to benearly endless
.
I see that some folks here are concerned that space junk will cause problems. Well to you folks did you ever consider that the corporations would find a way to clean up this stuff to protect their profits?The folks who think that we need to solve earths problems first need to think a bit deeper. Many problems are being solved right now by tech that had it's origins in the space program. Where do you think solar panel tech came from, just to name one. Don't you think that the corporations could profit from selling the technological advancements to advance life on earth?

Mankind will always have problems. We make our own. We no sooner solve one then we manufacture another. Man was built to explore. If we waited to explore till we solved all our problems we never would have left Africa.
S&F Thanks for the heads up.

Originally posted by randyvs
Nope
I can't agree with this at all Slayer. I don't feel we belong in space, until we can at least take care of our own
planet. We start mess'in up out there, the way we have our own home? I think you of all people should know where i'm coming from. Look at us right now. The planets close to being devestated and everybody is looking for some place to run. Well do you think we deserve an easy way out? I don't. I think we deserve what we get. That's how things will most likely be too.

edit on 9-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-4-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

I agree, but i dont agree. If you know what i mean
I understand that we have stuffed this world up. But what if some private company can get to another world.
And the company said they want humans to help populate this new world.
And that #1 That this new worlds energy will be run off renewable / green resource's,
#2 and that on this new world no violence will be tolerated or you are sent back to earth.
#3 what if on the new world that all religious faiths had to be practiced behind closed doors, and that if any religion tries to force another to follow their religion they get sent back to earth too.
Would you come then??

reply to post by lonegurkha


Interesting perspective.
Another opportunity.

I posted earlier that these people may be upset if the Moon is mined.

The Lunar Registary

I found it amusing, as I'm sure did others, that somebody has paid out about $20 for an acre of the moon and someone else can go and dig a dirty great hole on it with no recompense to them.

BUT.

What if a multi national corporation laid claim to the Moon?

America, through NASA, is the only country or people to have been to the moon.(Ignoring for a moment the arguments that they didn't). Does this mean that the U,S, has sole rights to it?

And if so, can they be sold to the highest bidder?

If the likes of Exon, Monsanto, McDonald's or even Walmart get there first can they lay claim to the whole satellite?

The legions of lawyers corporations have on payroll could shut down a smaller enterprise indefinitely, Ensuring a "Moon Monopoly". And what then? Is another company going to plough funds into research to get to Mars? Or is the first corporation with the ridiculous wealth that owning an astral body gives them going to be the only viable, and legal, option? (Shades of "The Company" in Alien?).

Does NASA need to go? No. Sized down? Yes.

"We the people", the entire planet, own our closest neighbour and the rest of the Solar System.

We have to keep some sort of oversight. NASA, ESA, are governmental bodies. Governments voted for by "us". That in a small way gives us a voice to what happens to humanities only future. Left solely to the corporations we have none.

i'll post an edited(so it makes sense for this thread) version of a reply i made in another thread that was basically saying space exploration is worthless. obviously i don't think it's worthless but i think this will also add to this thread.

how about asteroids? all the asteroids discovered from 1980-2010. green are asteroids that are highly unlikely to ever come close to earth, yellow more likely and red, well....red are bad.




If for no other reason asteroids will be the one thing that gets us off the earth and further into the solar system and eventually beyond. We're a species of unlimited potential, we've proved it by gaining supremacy on this planet and our swift technological incline. We've made mistakes, many of them are hard to undue and take a lot of time and resources. That doesn't mean we're unworthy.

Space exploration, even the limited amount we've done, brings and has brought to us many technological advances that are to the benefit of the planet and humanity as a whole. Perhaps when we start colonizing other worlds it'll bring other benefits, more space for the various "tribes" of humanity , more resources via planets and asteroid mining, greater understanding of the universe and it's underlying structures and principles...etc.

There are many things about humanity that will be a long time coming in changing (war one among them) that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for the stars, in fact i think we need to strive harder and farther than ever before. There's so much to learn and see in this universe and we haven't even been past our moon. If that doesn't excite you, then you have never really looked at how big and wondrous our universe really is.



i'd also like to add that mining asteroids is going to be where it's at. tens of trillions of dollars in raw materials just floating out there. some of them we've probably never even imagined, but we'll find uses for them and it'll be glorious.

you know what? lets go for it. Not only will private or commercial funding make us more active in space, it would allow job opportunities for the civilian community to travel into space. engineers etc, and not just hot shot military jocks... not that they deserve it any less, but not any more either.

Never as in Star Trek lore would you really want The Borg or The Kardasians running the show? You know The Mirror Universe is disgusting and the ISS are Nazi's.

No privatization of space as a law already exists banning any particular nation or company from laying a claim or stake to any portion of space.

One year I was invited by friends to attend the summertime open house at JPL (NASA) in Pasadena, CA. I will just cut to the chase and tell you that it was an utter disappointment. I could not believe the scene. Many of the exhibits looked like chunks of old movie props that they must have been hauling out since the 70's. The place was packed with kids on field trips and it was so hot and crowded. But I can tell you there was nothing there. In the end all I got was a do it yourself paper glider shaped like the space shuttle and this voice in my saying, 'NASA, never-a-straight-answer'. It was then that I began to remember all of the funky things that I had heard about them. I couldn't believe it. They are obviously providing some other service than progressing this countries endeavors towards space exploration.
And as far as the Moon and Mars and man's future in space are concerned I would like to offer this...

Space is a harsh environment that affects the body in many ways. In microgravity, bone loss occurs at a rate of 1 to 1.5 percent a month, leading to an acceleration of age-related changes similar to osteoporosis. Decreases in bone density and strength are more pronounced in some skeletal regions, such as the pelvis, although much of the loss is reversible upon return to Earth.
Prolonged exposure to weightlessness also increases the risks of kidney stones and bone fractures, which are both associated with bone demineralization. In addition, studies suggest that microgravity alters the ability of bones to heal after fractures.
Long stays in space also impact muscles. There is loss of muscle mass, strength and endurance, especially in the lower extremities. Changes in muscle performance, coupled with the effects of microgravity on connective tissues and the demands of activities of varying intensities, place astronauts at risk of fatigue and injury.
The heart is a unique muscle, and diminished cardiac function and the possible occurrence of heart rhythm disturbances are concerns faced during space flight. The details of these cardiovascular changes and risks are not yet completely known, however. In microgravity, body fluids are redistributed away from the extremities, which results in puffiness in the face during flight as well as changes in cardiovascular physiology. Upon return to Earth, some astronauts experience impaired orthostatic response, which means that their blood pressure drops abnormally low when they move from lying down to a sitting or standing position.
Similarly, microgravity also impacts the neurovestibular system--an integrated set of neural sensory, motor and brain circuits that allows humans to maintain balance, stabilize vision and understand body orientation in terms of location and direction. Exposure to microgravity often leads to disorientation and decreased neuromuscular coordination upon return from prolonged missions. Immediately after landing, astronauts may have problems standing up, stabilizing their gaze, walking and turning.
In space, circadian rhythms are disrupted because the 24-hour day/night cycle is absent. Sleep loss, stress related to workload, high performance expectations, and psychosocial factors all affect the body on long-duration missions. The body also suffers loss of blood volume, immunodeficiency, and transient post-flight anemia (low red blood cell levels), despite adequate nutritional intake.
Space radiation is rich in heavy ions and poses one of the greatest risks to humans on prolonged missions. Radiation can induce cataracts and cancer, as well as adversely affect many physiological processes. As space missions grow longer, much remains to be learned about just how the space environment alters the body and how complex physiological and psychological changes vary with mission length.
The reader also inquired as to what doctors recommend astronauts do to counteract these effects. Astronauts and crews are carefully selected, trained, and monitored to minimize risks and to promote health and safety. Improvements are constantly being made to spacecrafts, in-flight medical care capabilities and countermeasure protocols, as well as post-flight rehabilitation. During prolonged missions, exercise is effective at minimizing large muscle atrophy, and astronauts use a cycle ergometer and treadmill with downward applied pressure to maintain fitness. Certain tasks, such as extravehicular activities, are not routinely performed until bodily fluid redistribution stabilizes and astronauts have an opportunity to acclimatize to space. Prior to re-entry to gravity, increasing fluid intake is helpful in minimizing the effects of orthostatic hypotension.

Source:www.scientificamerican.com...

We are just not meant to be out there for prolonged periods of time. At least not in our meat-envelopes.
And that is what I think of that. I hope they overcome the problems keeping us from space travel some day.

reply to post by optimus primal


I agree. Asteroids are the resource for us.

We are not going to go there first though. Asteroids are to far away,to small, and move to quickly compared to the Moon and Mars. The Moon then Mars are the most financially viable.

If we commercialized space we could find so many new fascinating things it would be unimaginable. I agree with you slayer. We should let NASA die out and give us citizens the power to research and go where ever we please without restrictions. We have some citizens in this world that are far more intelligent than people at NASA, imagine if we took a trip to space with those people endless possibilities my friend!

reply to post by zorgon


Great timing the buddy!

Post information about shielding straight after I say that shielding and protection is key to space colonisation.

Going into space worries me at the moment, I feel our technology for the next few years (minus some major advancement) will just be floating around like ducks in space with meteors/what have you that can easily turn a joy ride into your last ride ever.


I'm all for going into space though, if we had better technology... you can guess where I'd be in a heartbeat.

You guys do know that space exploration will more than likely be afforded by the ultra rich only.

In the 50s and 60s they thought that normal people in 2000 would be able to take a vacation on the moon, look at how that turned out.

Us "commoners" will only be allowed to go up to suborbital or maybe even orbital space, up to the ISS, but that is as far as we go.

No way will they just let anyone land on the Moon or Mars especially when there might be aliens/artifacts on there.

I don't know maybe when they disclose ET or in 200-300 years. *sigh*

reply to post by NuclearMitochondria


Well then you can look back on life and say "I had the chance to joy ride in space" or you could say "I died in space while enjoying every moment of it" or you could be a weenie and be afraid to go into space! But as for me! I'd love to joy ride in space, do some research, meet ET's and call them my friends, discuss future events and plans with ET's but most of all it would be the most beautiful thing you could ever see when you are 150,000 feet above earth looking back down on it.

S&F, another quality post.

I have always wondered why any space-travel corporations haven't jumped right on top of the idea of commercializing space. While I'm sorely disappointed in NASA's failure to advance past it's 60's tech (in a sense), I don't think the program should be completely shut down. I like the idea proposed by another poster of allowing NASA to continue doing the research aspect of space travel, riding in the wake of the real effort made by the private sector. We may see a huge leap forward in terms of progress once space travel is privatized.

With the film "Moon" being a good example, I also can't help but think of how corporate colonization of Mars is portrayed in "Total Recall," and how it may parallel what my come in the next few centuries...




Well, then there's the whole "hoarding air for profit" thing too, but that's a different discussion...