Israeli schoolbus hit with anti-tank weapon fired from Gaza, critically wounding teen

Reply to post by SLAYER69




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Reply to post by SLAYER69

Just when i put a person on a pedastle they reveal themselves to be dumb pricks! Yes you "slayer"..


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reply to post by jackflap

The people of Ai.

There were no survivors.

Some of you who THINK you're disagreeing with me are really disagreeing with the time-proven principles of warfare that have been tested and proven true since the first recorded battle in 1479BC.

Argue with principles proven true time after time for millennia - argue with the Sun if you will.

Doesn't change a truth as much as you hate it or would like it to be different.

I no longer live in a fantasy world - I was forced to face and acknowledge some very painful truths years ago. I was forced to admit that not everything is "talkable." You can't talk through everything.

Every border, every people, every worthwhile endeavor in the history of mankind were obtained, influenced, or determined by brute, ruthless force.

Get over yourself. Your opinion of fighting, war, and killing won't change a damned thing, certainly not a principle of warfare or a truth that exists because it's never, ever, been found in error. The only thing that you have the slightest bit of choice over - is whether you want yours to survive, or you and yours can die at the hands of your foes.

You can say what you want - but when it's YOU, it's a bit different thought process than here ragging about your high moral standards.

Although from what I see, there's a lot of folks whose genetic track will come to a quick and conclusive end, given the choice.

Not me.

Not mine.

reply to post by FarArcher

I no longer live in a fantasy world - I was forced to face and acknowledge some very painful truths years ago. I was forced to admit that not everything is "talkable." You can't talk through everything.

This coming from a man who equates himself with a spider and relates to morbid Biblical tales of savagery as time tested tactics that should be followed.

Stick with that spidey, just don't take any loot as your flattening your enemies because you just may get stoned and burst into flames.

You really are living in a delusional world my friend. What makes you so angry that you have to let everyone know that destroying lives is the only way forward?

You live by the sword you die by the sword. You reap what you sow. Time tested quotes there.

reply to post by jackflap

You live by the sword well, and your enemies do the dying.

Delusions are not virtues, as much as you'd like them to be.

I spoke of a combat mindset - the patience of a spider - but the childish, immature johnny-come-lately in you has to automatically equate anything to do with a spider to Spiderman.

I just know you make your momma proud.

Principles of warfare are just that. Principles.

They will never - ever - change. The trick is learning them.

Not studying them. Not quoting them. Not discussing them.

Knowing them.

Sure helps keep you alive, and your foes at a distinct disadvantage.

I know this is going right over your head, but I had to at least extend the courtesy of replying to your kind, thoughtful, mature, and obviously KNOWING perspective.

Reply to post by FarArcher

I have fought and killed very officiently in my life, but i dont have peace. My family dont trust me, they fear me as a killer. I have a 169 iq too! ..


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Originally posted by Yissachar1
Reply to post by FarArcher

 

I have fought and killed very officiently in my life, but i dont have peace. My family dont trust me, they fear me as a killer. I have a 169 iq too! ..

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

You know even though we sometimes disagree on issues you remain one of my favorite posters here on ATS in part because you seem like a 'real' soldier, which I typify as one who has come to see the horrors of war for exactly what they are, and see no glory in it.

I tend to think the gungho crowd of braggards and let's kill them all and let God sort them out as only being armchair warriors or guys stuck in the rear with the gear who have never seen the hard and ugly part of war.

For those that have it usually has a maturing effect, very much like you display, where your passions still run deep but are tempered from a wisdom that comes through hard experience.

When I was a kid the guys from World War I and II and Korea never liked or would talk about their combat experiences in polite company and would only say War is Hell and nothing to glorify, and they didn't like to talk about it.

Of course many of these men were mature reasoned men before being drafted in war time, not volunteers to an all volunteer army that many join because War Video Games are fun.

I really wonder about some of these guys. I truly do.

I hope you know real peace one day my friend, I hope we all do.

People seem to forget it's the peacemakers that are blessed, and I am not talking about the one's made by Colt.

reply to post by FarArcher

I know this is going right over your head, but I had to at least extend the courtesy of replying to your kind, thoughtful, mature, and obviously KNOWING perspective.

What is going over my head? Your obvious immaturity and need to promote yourself at all costs so that your little band of followers can star you? Please. I see right through all that stuff.

reply to post by Yissachar1

In time, more and more peace will come. In time, more and more trust will come.

You're a lot better off than many - some who didn't seem bothered too much by the killing - and as you will well know - it gets easier the more you do.

I would find an older combat vet - they can often help get some of the misplaced nightmares and regrets suitably placed.

There is no discussing the subject with non-combatants. They have no valid reference point to even begin to understand, much less help navigate you to more accepting perspectives of days past. But to another, older, combat vet, there is nothing you can say you saw or did that will shock him.

Nothing you did or experienced will make him think any less of you. There were hard things we had to do at the time that in any other moment or environment would be considered barbaric, cold-blooded, uncaring, and soul-less. But at that moment, in that situation, it was right, necessary, and required.

It will take years, and maybe a decade or more if you don't get with some others and talk this out. Once you realize that the capacity for great violence is not to be equated with the preference for great violence, it goes a long way toward minimizing the nightmares.

Oh. They'll never completely go away, but when you have worked through it with others who have experienced it and worked through it - you're half way home.

You are what you are. Not what you were. What you are.

And you decide that every morning when you awaken.

reply to post by jackflap

Oh.

So the real weed up your butt has something to do with stars?

Go to the nearest kindergarten teacher.

She'll give you some stars.

Reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I have watched the light of humanism become death in Bosnia. You think it cant happen here? Its happening right now! Thank you PT, you r a good man


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reply to post by FarArcher

So the real weed up your butt has something to do with stars? Go to the nearest kindergarten teacher. She'll give you some stars.

That doesn't bother me at all. No weed up the butt as you put it. I was just pointing out something that I noticed is all. I would go to the kindergarten teacher like you have obviously been doing throughout our conversation but I'd rather read about your exploits because I'll find what I'm looking for.

reply to post by jackflap


Not had time to read full thread but can I ask, do school children in Isreal take stuffed toys with them to school ?

Only ask because where I live they do not. Perhaps the toys were the drivers, I mean sometimes buses do carry such things sitting in the front window area although it would be a bit unusual.

This is a long time, but someone has to answer for it soon

reply to post by bigyin

Not had time to read full thread but can I ask, do school children in Isreal take stuffed toys with them to school ? Only ask because where I live they do not. Perhaps the toys were the drivers, I mean sometimes buses do carry such things sitting in the front window area although it would be a bit unusual.

I'm not sure if it is a common practice for the children to take their stuffed animals with them to school. I know for a fact that the children here aren't allowed to bring toys with them to school. Maybe it was a show and tell day? I have no clue.

I do find it strange that there seems to be no indication that the bear in the windshield area was exposed to an anti tank weapon blast though. I know the U.S.'s anti tank weapons penetrate and then turn into a molten mass of shrapnel that incinerates anything in the interior of the tank. Really nasty. A stuffed animal would not survive that for sure.

There is as we seen an animal at the foot of the door as well. It is conceivable that they were placed there to play on the emotions. There doesn't seem to really be anti tank damage done to the bus I don't believe but then again I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination.

Maybe FarArcher could tell us what kind of damage an anti tank weapon will do to the likes of a school bus.

reply to post by jackflap

Maybe FarArcher could tell us what kind of damage an anti tank weapon will do to the likes of a school bus.

The way FarArcher talks that might be considered as an invitation to go out and fire on a school bus with an anti-tank weapon so he can tell us about how he has wasted plenty of School Busses and knows the whole process inside and out.

Considering the only student on the bus was a 16 year old the presence of two count them two teddy bears on the bus is a bit circumspect.

It would mean the children who had been on the bus and already unboarded at their stops lost their precious little stuffed friends through absent mindedness or the bus driver has a teddy bear fetish or the sole remaining sixteen year old on the bus hasn't quite 'matured' for his age.

Now as awful and distasteful as I find it to actually have to consider something as innocent as a child's teddy bear in something as ugly as an attack that hurt a child and an adult, it still is important, in that if the Teddy Bear was placed at the scene later for a photo op that at least some of the ellements regarding the attack were staged by the Israelis.

So once you establish that the Israelis are deliberately staging the scene it opens up the door to how much staging was really involved, up to and including whether the Israelis targeted a near empty bus to attack and to blame it on Hamas, likely by an annonymous 'fighter' calling in and claiming responsibility for the attack.

So is the Teddy Bear part of a little 'white' lie, or all part of a very big 'dark' one?

reply to post by jackflap

I never fired an anti-tank weapon at a school bus, never had reason to, and even if given a reason, would refuse. I only had three rules: we don't intentionally hurt children as they can't pick their parents - much less their parents politics, we don't rape any women - kill them if you want and you'll have to live with it - but you damn certain won't rape them, and never, ever, let me catch you sleeping on guard duty, or I'll cut your throat myself. You will not endanger me and everyone else but once, and there will be no discussion.

I admit, that's not much for rules, but those are the important ones.

If your question was to ask what a bus hit by an anti-tank round should look like - it depends on the anti-tank weapon.

The most effective anti-tank weapon is a sabot fired from a high velocity, large bore gun. It's basically just a rod penetrator, and while it melts steel as it punches through, igniting things inside, if used against a bus, it would just leave a small hole entering and a small hole leaving.

If you're talking about a shaped charge, then again, the hole is small as the explosives are formed to concentrate their explosive force into a very small area, thus enabling it to punch through multiple inches of armor. Since a school bus is a tin can on a chassis, there's not much to punch through and concentrate, so most of the explosive would dissipate rather quickly.

Folks here seem to equate anti-vehicle mine damage with anti-tank weapon damage, and expect to see massive deconstruction of the bus.

Not even close as they work on different principles, and include a significantly greater mass of explosive.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yeah, Proto, the way you talk - you wouldn't have made it to sundown in my world.

What's with the personal attacks?

Can't make your points on merit?

Once again, your slop jar appears full.

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Yeah, Proto, the way you talk - you wouldn't have made it to sundown in my world.

What's with the personal attacks?

Can't make your points on merit?

Once again, your slop jar appears full.

Let's see where to begin on this off topic post where everyone in your world would be working for me anyway and calling me Sir!

But honestly I woundn't expect you to know much about the real proto, just like you don't know anything about the land purchases of the United States from the nations who had claims here also that we would go to war with and win the right to buy their lands from them.

Or how the land ownership of pre-mandate Palestine really was set up or the true original cause for tensions regarding Zionist Immigration into Palestine.

Glad to hear that you would draw the line at 'deliberately' targeting children with that great intelligence that the US is known for like just where weapons of mass destruction are, who is at a wedding, and where Osama Bin Laden is.

I feel safer for the children of the world already!

Good on you man!

reply to post by FarArcher


Well, I certainly didn't ask for your regular bravado and list of codes to live by that's for sure. I was interested to see if you ever had the chance to witness an anti tank weapon's effect on a bus or something similar. I see what you're saying about the ballistics of the weapons used and it makes sense to me.

I'm still not convinced however that the damage done to the bus can be attributed to an anti tank weapon though. I'll keep researching for sure. Why would they use such a valuable weapon like that on something as insignificant as a school bus? It doesn't add up.

I wanted to edit this to add a link that our friend Oaktree put in another thread about the Kornet. Very good find!

The missile utilizes a tandem shaped charge anti-tank warhead or a thermobaric (fuel-air explosive) charge, for anti-personnel and anti-material blast and incendiary effect. The manufacturer claims penetration of 1,200mm of steel armor or 4.5 meters of concrete. The NATO designation of the Kornet is AT-14.

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