Qur'an burning free speech in America?

Originally posted by markosity1973
Oh and one last thing America, why are you choosing to debate the so called God given right of the first amendment on a website that reserves and exercises the right to censor and remove posts that are "off topic" or "offensive" Wake up an smell the hypocrisy people. Freedom of Speech is just an illusion that you have all fallen for. You all go shooting off at the mouth about constitutions and God given rights, when the very site you are using as your platform 'violates' these rights.

Even in China where speech is definitely not free people still say and think what they want. They just have to be very careful about how they go about it - They just go underground instead. No-one could ever stop you saying and thinking what you want in your own homes. This includes burning bibles, korans and any other religious texts if you feel so inclined.

But when you do these things in the public eye, with the intention of inflaming hatred in the name of getting your 5 minutes of fame, this is an all together different matter. I don't think that any one person has the right to risk the lives of innocent people who may or may not even agree with their actions. And this is exactly what this hateful little man has done. I am sure that if I were one of the people killed in Afghanistan over this incident I would hold my blood over this man's head.

So enjoy your 'freedom of speech' and enjoy the right to arm every home with weapons like you are ready for armageddon. You might find it comes sooner than you think.......

I agree the pastor's actions didn't seem very wise, and too I'm not convinced it wasn't simply another PR stunt to try and get the Sheep to question the value of the 1st amend. AS to this website, I would say it is like a person's home in a way that you mentioned where a person DOES have the right in that instance to say what is allowed or not, being in that it is a privately owned domain.

You know, I definitely am not a fan of that fake pastor burning my Holy Book, but I wouldn't kill you, the next man, or even HIM. Some would try to say that I'm not correctly following my spiritual path, but that's just them tryna make me look like some kinda demon.

I'm not defending these people but I personally don't believe that these murders are even a result of the Qur'an burning. If they were, the protests and aggression would be far more wide spread. I'm actually gonna start a thread about that in 3, 2, 1....

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant

Qur'an burning free speech in America?

rt.com

The incident has pushed many to question just how far free speech goes in America. If what you say or do causes the death of others, are you free to say or do it? Issues surrounding the US First amendment are becoming more debated. Some feel, the principle trumps the outcome, while others contend free speech must be limited.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Quite pathetic that humans kill innocents because some scrub burnt a book. I am daily reminded of why George Carlin has given up on the feeble human mind and self on this planet.

For this guy to not think about a possible retaliation for burning a book that religion holds sacred, is ridiculous. There are many Christians here in the states that would completely flip out over them burning a bible.

For instance, the old lady that hung a dog for it chewing on the bible... Thats just an example, but there are plenty of people that would do similar if not worse things.

Is it a human right to burn a book? Yes, but that doesn't mean its THE right thing to do...

Originally posted by Tecumte

Originally posted by markosity1973
Oh and one last thing America, why are you choosing to debate the so called God given right of the first amendment on a website that reserves and exercises the right to censor and remove posts that are "off topic" or "offensive" Wake up an smell the hypocrisy people. Freedom of Speech is just an illusion that you have all fallen for. You all go shooting off at the mouth about constitutions and God given rights, when the very site you are using as your platform 'violates' these rights.

Even in China where speech is definitely not free people still say and think what they want. They just have to be very careful about how they go about it - They just go underground instead. No-one could ever stop you saying and thinking what you want in your own homes. This includes burning bibles, korans and any other religious texts if you feel so inclined.

But when you do these things in the public eye, with the intention of inflaming hatred in the name of getting your 5 minutes of fame, this is an all together different matter. I don't think that any one person has the right to risk the lives of innocent people who may or may not even agree with their actions. And this is exactly what this hateful little man has done. I am sure that if I were one of the people killed in Afghanistan over this incident I would hold my blood over this man's head.

So enjoy your 'freedom of speech' and enjoy the right to arm every home with weapons like you are ready for armageddon. You might find it comes sooner than you think.......

I agree the pastor's actions didn't seem very wise, and too I'm not convinced it wasn't simply another PR stunt to try and get the Sheep to question the value of the 1st amend. AS to this website, I would say it is like a person's home in a way that you mentioned where a person DOES have the right in that instance to say what is allowed or not, being in that it is a privately owned domain.

A private domain in a public place......... This is how people get away with all this nonsense in the first place. They ignore the spirit of what was intended when the constitution gave you the rights. Freedom of speech was meant to give everyone a voice, but if you believe in it, then it must apply in all places at all times i.e even on a privately owned website, especially one that is open to the public. You can't use it to let the Pastor get away with his actions and then go, oh its okay, I don't mind what I say on the internet being censored by the owners of the site because even though it is a site that lets me voice my opinion in public it is privately owned and so there are suddenly some different rules now that never applied when the pastor went on youtube.....

Wake up people!

I can't imagine what this Pastor was thinking? Probably one of those idiots who wants to force Armageddon would be my guess. We talk sometimes about the hatred for Muslims, how all Muslims are evil but then we are reminded that there are a great many Muslims among us who are just like us...Eating, sleeping, working, tax paying members of our communities and none of them are blowing stuff up? At the end of the day it's only the "Extremists" that give us grief...Could be, but the more idiot like this Pastor go AWOL from the common sense brigade insulting Muslims globally, more and more of the peaceful ones we mingle with will simply reach their threshold of ability to endure anymore hateful crap directed their way! A percentage of them will turn to the dark side. This fool is lobbing grenades of self serving hate propaganda as I see it with a very clear agenda. We don't have too much more road to travel if we don't put this "My God is better than you're God" crap away!

Originally posted by markosity1973

Originally posted by Tecumte

Originally posted by markosity1973
Oh and one last thing America, why are you choosing to debate the so called God given right of the first amendment on a website that reserves and exercises the right to censor and remove posts that are "off topic" or "offensive" Wake up an smell the hypocrisy people. Freedom of Speech is just an illusion that you have all fallen for. You all go shooting off at the mouth about constitutions and God given rights, when the very site you are using as your platform 'violates' these rights.

Even in China where speech is definitely not free people still say and think what they want. They just have to be very careful about how they go about it - They just go underground instead. No-one could ever stop you saying and thinking what you want in your own homes. This includes burning bibles, korans and any other religious texts if you feel so inclined.

But when you do these things in the public eye, with the intention of inflaming hatred in the name of getting your 5 minutes of fame, this is an all together different matter. I don't think that any one person has the right to risk the lives of innocent people who may or may not even agree with their actions. And this is exactly what this hateful little man has done. I am sure that if I were one of the people killed in Afghanistan over this incident I would hold my blood over this man's head.

So enjoy your 'freedom of speech' and enjoy the right to arm every home with weapons like you are ready for armageddon. You might find it comes sooner than you think.......

I agree the pastor's actions didn't seem very wise, and too I'm not convinced it wasn't simply another PR stunt to try and get the Sheep to question the value of the 1st amend. AS to this website, I would say it is like a person's home in a way that you mentioned where a person DOES have the right in that instance to say what is allowed or not, being in that it is a privately owned domain.

A private domain in a public place......... This is how people get away with all this nonsense in the first place. They ignore the spirit of what was intended when the constitution gave you the rights. Freedom of speech was meant to give everyone a voice, but if you believe in it, then it must apply in all places at all times i.e even on a privately owned website, especially one that is open to the public. You can't use it to let the Pastor get away with his actions and then go, oh its okay, I don't mind what I say on the internet being censored by the owners of the site because even though it is a site that lets me voice my opinion in public it is privately owned and so there are suddenly some different rules now that never applied when the pastor went on youtube.....

Wake up people!

Well I guess we'll have to disagree on this one, because I have to assert that it's alot like porn on T.V., nobody is being forced to watch, they make the choice, and they can change the channel if they find the comments or viewing in any way offensive. And yes too, I think just like a shop owner can ask somebody to leave their business that they own and pay for it is a bit of a different standard than one that is public that everybody owns, pays for by taxes, and has a right to use, as regarding free speech under the 1st amend.

I personally think there are already enough laws and limitations here in America, especially on the right to speek freely and openly, we are drowning in them, if anything I would like to see about half of the useless and arbitrary laws rescinded and an attempt made to restore this Republic to the ideals the founders envisioned instead of what it has become a prison planet of sorts. We are living in a very dangerous time with Globalist minded totalitarian wannabes trying to avert criticism from their huge power grabs, we need free and open speech more now than at most any time I can recall in my life, even if we have to live with such knuckleheads as the pastor. The real fault to my way of thinking comes from those who decided they needed to react violently to a non violent (and perhaps stupid) act. They OVER reacted and they are the ones that need to be held accountable. If I reacted with force to every stupid comment and act I have encountered in my life there would likely be a few less humans around and I might likely not be around either.

reply to post by Essan


Figuratively,

The people in DC are crapping on the constitution and laughing at people who dig the bible.

And we aint off'ed one of the sorry S.O.B's to my knowledge.

The mussies just need to get a thicker skin and a better control of their "machismo".



Not to you but in general, why does the "omnipotent" allah (small "a") need humans defending him any way? Pretty comical in a dark sense.

reply to post by SpeachM1litant


I've said this in another thread, but it bears repeating. Just because an idiot burns a book, that does not justify a person to murder someone else. All it does is prove that a person who would murder another person over something as dumb as burning a book was more or less just waiting to commit that act in the first place.

What the book burner did didn't cause the death of anybody, the people who murdered other people caused the deaths.

Iran just burnt an american flag lets riot and kill all muslims. what u mean i cant do it, but its ok for them too? does everyone forget the un officials that died not for burning a quran but for some one else 3500 miles away they dont know burning a book. lets get ride of all this man made religion and stop killing in the name of good vs evil its a never ending nor winable battle.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Sorry, but calling that act a breach of peace seems laughable to me. What worth is a peace that is so tenuous that a nation has to alter it's way of life in order to accommodate a group of people on foreign soil because we fear being murdered over the slightest misstep?

If you ask me, all this incident reveals is that the world isn't yet ready for peace. The crusades, religious conflicts, misc wars, etc aren't quite yet ready to end, and humanity isn't yet ready to mature.

As someone said, live free or die. But realistically humanity is just going to die because of all of this immature, selfish crap.

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

I've said this in another thread, but it bears repeating. Just because an idiot burns a book, that does not justify a person to murder someone else. All it does is prove that a person who would murder another person over something as dumb as burning a book was more or less just waiting to commit that act in the first place.

What the book burner did didn't cause the death of anybody, the people who murdered other people caused the deaths.

Mechanically sound but the machine is broken! There are most likely vast numbers of people/Muslims worldwide who are just waiting for more idiotic acts such as this for an excuse to malfunction and kill more! Again it won't be the perpetrators of this stupidity who cause the death of anybody, but people WILL die! Understanding the logic of the argument unless accepted globally won't change this outcome

Burn a Koran and you're a Muslim hater and asking for terrorist to take action, burn one of the Jewish holy books and you're a Nazi, but burn a Christian Bible and it's free speech and anyone who says otherwise is a radical religious nut. Welcome to America.

Originally posted by minkmouse

Originally posted by arbitrarygeneraiist
reply to post by SpeachM1litant

 

I've said this in another thread, but it bears repeating. Just because an idiot burns a book, that does not justify a person to murder someone else. All it does is prove that a person who would murder another person over something as dumb as burning a book was more or less just waiting to commit that act in the first place.

What the book burner did didn't cause the death of anybody, the people who murdered other people caused the deaths.

Mechanically sound but the machine is broken! There are most likely vast numbers of people/Muslims worldwide who are just waiting for more idiotic acts such as this for an excuse to malfunction and kill more! Again it won't be the perpetrators of this stupidity who cause the death of anybody, but people WILL die! Understanding the logic of the argument unless accepted globally won't change this outcome

The logic that is behind the article excerpt in the OP is that American citizens need to have certain freedoms revoked in order to accommodate the extremists and terrorists, which in effect is America breaking it's own policy of not negotiating with extremists or terrorists.

It's also like punishing the entire classroom because a couple of idiot children can't behave themselves. In the end all it does is piss off the entire classroom.

I'm a Jedi, part of the Church of Jediism. We are appalled that VHS Star Wars movies are being tossed in the trash! It is a declaration of war! From now on, Free Speech may not include the disrespect of ANY Star Wars movie!

reply to post by thomasc83


Well said America is so full of double standards and hypocrisy it makes my mind boggle. You tell yourselves that you live in the greatest nation on earth and yet you can't even make a stand on a moral issue like this that is really so black and white.

sorry....what anyone says or does (concerning free speech)... does not cause death or pain....period

If i burn a flag and it pisses someone off, and said person goes crazy, what i did doesn't give anyone a right to hurt another...

the only thing thats cause death, hurt, pain is the person who doesn't like what was done and retaliates...and that my friend is uncalled for....

now if the person who disagrees with burning the flag wants to retaliate in their own form of free speech that does not harm another that is fine to.... let them burn a bible .....

doesn't anyone else find this obvious??

Do you people REALLY think this Pastor did this just because he can? He KNEW what the response would be over in the middle east. This is what he wants. For people to see how Islam really is. To see how they overreact to anything anyone says or does against their religion. He burns a book, they kill innocent people who had absolutely nothing to do with it. And riot for days.

Yeah, I can see where you might think he's actually the crazy one.

reply to post by markosity1973


take a small view of the population and turn it into a mass consensus of the American population...now that is ignorance....have fun with that bro...

it makes you morally as wrong as what you accuse others of being...

you are the same...

reply to post by poncho1982


you said it how islam reacts....lets censor people because of how we think people will react....ludicrous....