Qur'an burning free speech in America?

Originally posted by StealthKix
Depends how you look at the world....

Do I give a toss about the pastor? NO
Do I give a toss about religious texts? NO
Do I give a toss about people acting out and killing each other? NO

We are free to say what we want no one can have control over what comes out of our mouths but us. If some people want to curse so be it there choice. If some people want to be racist so be it there choice.

The world has over 6 billion individuals all with there own mind, some not as stable as others. Doesn't take a lot to know that there are bigger things to think and ponder about.

FOCUS ON THE FINGER AND YOU'LL MISS ALL THE "HEAVENLY" GLORY...

You get it Freedom is a double edged sword and children or the primitive are incapable of handling real freedom. Its a state of mind. In a sound mind, the freedom to burn a book or flag wouldnt be really a reason or thought do it.. unfortunately some cant understand the concept enough to see what they are doing. Only making themselves known.
My opinion of course.. I may still like those who burn a book or worship one very much. Maybe even love them. Doesnt mean i dont find that particular action absurd. I tend to find the wholesale murder of others using beiung offended by it by far the greater trespass...where I find the burning of paper and ink or fabric just a waste of money and time.

Oh and BTW.. love your avatar.. wow!

Originally posted by markosity1973
America, when does a message of hate, ignorance and intolerance become freedom of speech?

It is time that the good people of your nation stood up and said enough is enough. Freedom of speech is nothing but a veil that cowards hide behind to commit terrible acts and get away with it. You gotta have some sort of boundaries.

NO. I may not agree with what this pastor said, or in this case how he said it, but I defend to the death his right to say it. Free speech is our second most important right(behind gun ownership which acts to preserve all other rights) and should never be abridged, modified or surrendered.

reply to post by Advantage


Exactly I actually didn't even read what had been posted in this thread except the OP's post before I made my post. I made my comment on page 8 flicked thru the few posts above and yours was the actual one that only made sense.

BTW thanks

Waaaayyyyy too slippery a slope to try to paint Jones as needing some sort of legal prosecution over this based on some sort of incitement clause in regards to Freedom of Speech.

I view this in the same vein as Westboro Baptist Church. I disagree entirely with their crap, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a beer for whoever punched one of them to the ground and stomped a mud hole across their face, but I am vehemently opposed to any action by the government to silence them. Look at it this way, if tomorrow public sway causes the ruling to be handed down: "Terry Jones is guilty of incitement, hate speech, causing violence, etc. This is NOT free speech..." then what about next year or 5 years from now when the same precident is used against someone who's pointing out the overreaches of the Federal government and thousands of miles away we see some idiot repeat the Tucson shootings?

Furthermore, what about equal protection under the law in the United States? Lord knows we've seen enough imbeciles burn the Christian Bible. Hell, Manson did it on stage at a concert. Funny thing, this Qu'Ran burning... I've read so very many politicians and strategists discussing it the past couple of days and it is never just called the Koran. It is always referred to by these American officials as "The Holy Koran." To me that alone speaks volumes. When was the last time an American official talked about "The Holy Bible", "The Holy Torah", "The Holy Shruti", or even "The Holy Book of the Dead?" I'll give you a hint, likely no American official has ever referred to one of these books as "Holy" unless they, themselves practiced whatever religion considered it Holy in the first place.

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by JerryB08

 

When America is lily white I will accept that statement.

But when you go marching into foreign countries under the guise of searching for weapons of mass destruction that don't actually exist, when you openly support the nation of Israel that is committing genocide on the Muslim people of Palestine well what do you expect.

Islam is merely a common voice these people have found. The true reason these people rise up against you is because of the evil your nation does just so you can keep driving your stupid oversized SUV's and gas hog V8's.

Yep, you certainly have gotten a part of it, I agree. It is odd too by comparison we had people like Dick Cheney get up over and over and over on T.V. and basically yell fire, when he knew there was not one and it has cost the lives of hundreds and hundreds of thousands if not more. And it seems so strange to me that more American's overall would turn a blind eye to this, while pointing out things that have cost so much less in terms of life and damage done. Somehow we give our so called leaders a pass to inflame hatred and violence, and so many focus on the gnat on the gorrilla's arse while ignoring the 800 lb monstrosity in the room. The hundreds of millions spent on keeping the populace dumbed down and focused on nonsense sure seems to be a good investment.

Listen....for years the people in the middle east have been burning US flags, paper US presidents, and the list goes on. For years they have been chopping the heads off of innocent people and not a single person in the US seems to care. Give the guy a break, he burnt a book. He didnt behead someone like the people he is trying to expose as what they are. Any suggestion to limit someones rights on free speech is an attack on Liberty. If you were to open that can of worms it would never end. If he really wanted to offend people he could have wiped his a$$ with the pages.

Shouldn't burning the Koran be more "freedom of religion" than "freedom of speech"?

Why does it seem like alot of conservatives use their imagined view of all libs, indies, atheists, muslims, artists, etc as being extremists as an excuse to be an extremist? I havent read alot of posts saying we need to pass laws to shut people up. What I have read is alot of people trying to explain why we should not do stupid things that offend someone for the sole reason of offending them, because its really stupid, disrespectful, and thugish. And because most of us have been raised to be civil humans and not act like an idiot.
Then we have a bunch of people trying to explain why its ok to be idiots. And its 'Freedom' of all things. (Insert Blue faced Mel Gibson)
Seeing as how its usually CONservatives Christians doing the burning, from The Qur'an, to Ozzy and Beatle Records, Countless Novels, Shakespeare, and of course Witches, I think Ill go with what I know instead of this New and Improved American Idiot the CC's are wanting us to be.

I'll agree the 'pastor' is an idiot, but not enough people are putting the blame where it really lies. With the medieval mental midgets over in the middle east.

I am not going to go around walking on eggshells for fear of offending these throwbacks. You don't like freedom of speech, too damn bad. Stay in your little # hole country and burn your towns down. I really don't give a damn.

Double post deleted.

reply to post by Tecumte


Would you please stop insulting holocaust victims with your paranoid generalizations..


Does anyone else tire of seeing this very tragic poem abused for a cheap point?

Originally posted by Miraj
reply to post by Tecumte

 

Would you please stop insulting holocaust victims with your paranoid generalizations..


Does anyone else tire of seeing this very tragic poem abused for a cheap point?

Insulting holocaust victims??? Which ones? Native Americans? Germans? Russians? Chinese? Arabs?

Ohhhhhhh. You mean the one and only holocaust victims history has ever had I guess?

I forgot. They're 'special'.

Are you posting from Israel?

The level of propagandists and apologists for the brutal Jihadists on this Board used to amaze me. Now it sickens me. No matter what the U.S. or any individual has done, there is no justification for senseless slaughter. That Qur'an burning had zero to do with this. It was just a convenient excuse.

The radical Progressives have jumped on board with this to their own peril. When they have been used up, their new friends will turn on them. When they are not needed anymore, they will be among the first to die under a Theocratic Dictatorship. Only a Fool would believe otherwise. Lot's of fools out there, but mostly liars pretending to be who they are not and spreading propaganda.

As to that fake Christian(s) who burned the book ; he has blood on his hands. He has every right to burn whatever he wishes, but is responsible for what it causes.

There is no right side in this. Just Bigot's, insane Jihadists and their sick supporters doing what they do best, destroying peoples lives. God / Allah have nothing to do with any of this. This is all man's insanity. You think the world is bad now, wait until you see what is coming if the Jihadist's and the Progressives Radicals are not stopped. Billions will suffer for no good reason.

Muslims killing their fellow Muslims, so far overshadows anything being done during military actions, that people's ignoring of the killing, makes them complicit. Nobody is being fooled here, other than those who wish to be fooled. Jihadists are just common mass murderers and Allah has nothing to do with it.

The weirdest part is how many who claim to be anti-religion are among the apologists for these madmen. You claim to not believe and yet you support religious zealots on a murdering spree? Liars.

Originally posted by Tecumte

Once the First amendment has been burned good luck ever getting it back.

Bravo. An honest person.

Freedom of speech is fine.

But why is freedom of intolerance fine?

A poster earlier talked about "piss Jesus" and while I am not a Christian, (or any other religion for that matter) I found that very offensive.

Again, why is intolerance tolerated?

Looking through this thread I see a lot of intolerance for a religion, and an intolerance for a people. Why is that tolerated? When is hate acceptable?

How are we better than those we condemn when we tolerate the same actions that we blame them for?

Many in this and other threads have lauded this man a hero. Why is that? Why is this man a hero for what he did? Why do you exalt his actions when you condemn the same actions taken by others?

And if you truly believe that the people in the middle east are completely uncivilized barbarians and savages, then how can you really blame them for their actions? Would you blame a monkey for killing someone if someone else hands it a gun? Who is really to blame? The monkey or the person? The monkey is just doing what a monkey does.

Why is it that when a koran is burned the muslims react with such violence but when the flag or the bible is burned nothing happens? Draw a cartoon of muhammad....death sentace, virgin mary covered in feces....art. to me the operative word is REACT!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
The level of propagandists and apologists for the brutal Jihadists on this Board used to amaze me. Now it sickens me. No matter what the U.S. or any individual has done, there is no justification for senseless slaughter. That Qur'an burning had zero to do with this. It was just a convenient excuse.

The radical Progressives have jumped on board with this to their own peril. When they have been used up, their new friends will turn on them. When they are not needed anymore, they will be among the first to die under a Theocratic Dictatorship. Only a Fool would believe otherwise. Lot's of fools out there, but mostly liars pretending to be who they are not and spreading propaganda.

As to that fake Christian(s) who burned the book

; he has blood on his hands. He has every right to burn whatever he wishes, but is responsible for what it causes.

There is no right side in this. Just Bigot's, insane Jihadists and their sick supporters doing what they do best, destroying peoples lives. God / Allah have nothing to do with any of this. This is all man's insanity. You think the world is bad now, wait until you see what is coming if the Jihadist's and the Progressives Radicals are not stopped. Billions will suffer for no good reason.

Muslims killing their fellow Muslims, so far overshadows anything being done during military actions, that people's ignoring of the killing, makes them complicit. Nobody is being fooled here, other than those who wish to be fooled. Jihadists are just common mass murderers and Allah has nothing to do with it.

The weirdest part is how many who claim to be anti-religion are among the apologists for these madmen. You claim to not believe and yet you support religious zealots on a murdering spree? Liars.

Murdering anyone for their oil, lands, strategic bases, minerals, economic considerations, or from slanted misplaced 'religous' views IMO is unacceptable no matter who is doing it.

Hopefully civilized and enlightened people from all parts of the world will come to realize this and confront those so called 'leaders' and wolves in sheeps clothing that lead their flocks astray.

See this is what America has become. Sick, twisted christian fundamentalists who think that every other religion is wrong. Little do they know that the 3 great religions christianity, islam and judaism are intertwined in the same mythology. This is why America is so hated.

To be honest, I did not read the whole thread and I am not american but I just wanted to add a comment on this matter.
Don't think this has much to do with free speech.
If you want to burn things that you have bought anywhere with your own money it doesn't matter what exactly you want to burn.
Books you don't like, bad videogames or boring porn magazines, as long as it's yours you should be able to burn it or use it as toliet paper.
Oh, people feel offended by that? Bad luck, it's yours so you can do whatever you want with it.
Look at those uneducated retarded idiots burning flags every day. Does anyone feel offended by that? Yes of course. Do they care about that? No.
I just would like to know how they get all those flags. As soon as there is someone they don't like they get out their flags and burn them. Do they have a hidden warehouse full of all flags available just to be prepared? Seriously, I want to know that... Does their government stop them? NO!
So, you think it's OK to burn a Quran? In my opinion it is. As long as it is yours. Also, I don't care about religion. I wouldn't be happy about someone burning my favorite fiction book but everyone can do whatever they want with their own possessions...

Oh and one last thing America, why are you choosing to debate the so called God given right of the first amendment on a website that reserves and exercises the right to censor and remove posts that are "off topic" or "offensive" Wake up an smell the hypocrisy people. Freedom of Speech is just an illusion that you have all fallen for. You all go shooting off at the mouth about constitutions and God given rights, when the very site you are using as your platform 'violates' these rights.

Even in China where speech is definitely not free people still say and think what they want. They just have to be very careful about how they go about it - They just go underground instead. No-one could ever stop you saying and thinking what you want in your own homes. This includes burning bibles, korans and any other religious texts if you feel so inclined.

But when you do these things in the public eye, with the intention of inflaming hatred in the name of getting your 5 minutes of fame, this is an all together different matter. I don't think that any one person has the right to risk the lives of innocent people who may or may not even agree with their actions. And this is exactly what this hateful little man has done. I am sure that if I were one of the people killed in Afghanistan over this incident I would hold my blood over this man's head.

So enjoy your 'freedom of speech' and enjoy the right to arm every home with weapons like you are ready for armageddon. You might find it comes sooner than you think.......