Proof Of Alien Contact? Could This Be The Smoking Gun?

Originally posted by Itop1
Just remember.... an alien could slap some skeptics in the face, and they still wouldn't believe it

I know alot of people that your statement would apply to..LOL

Originally posted by XRaDiiX
I feel extremely skeptical about this one he found multiple 'alien' implants? In several patients.? Wouldn't other doctors be finding these too

The problem: Doctor finds strange implant - sends it to LANL /NMT / UC etc for tests - results received which seem to be pretty ambiguous - ET? May be, may be not.

So why would these results look ambiguous? Is it that the CIA / DIA or some other three letter clubs are keeping a tab on such tests? If those scientists don't tow the established official line, their funding would come to zilch? So would anyone risk putting out the truth? Just saying...

Originally posted by holtdani
Results:
www.alienscalpel.com...
www.alienscalpel.com...

Originally posted by dereks

Nothing in those "results" shows THE METALS AND THEIR COMBINATIONS IN THE IMPLANT WAS MANUFACTURED AND EXTRATERRESTRIAL IN ORIGIN.

So where are the results that show that they are alien in origin....

Is this guy a troll or just inept at making simple inferences from the raw data? There are a lot of factors in the data that support the claim. Skimming through the results, given in the documents it is clear that the object is unearthly giving credence to it's origin being that of extraterrestrial.

This is of course is indicated by the significant number of trace elements that we would consider rare earth elements, and already known extraterrestrial elements.

List of REE's detected:
Ytterbium
Yttrium
Cerium
Praseodymium
Neodymium
Samarium
Europium
Gadolinium
Dysprosium
Erbium

To put this into perspective this object had 10 out of the 17 REE's known. You may wish to do further research into REE's at en.wikipedia.org...

Also another factor in determining if an object is extraterrestrial, is analysing the isotope ratios in each element. I would like to confirm and regurgitate the following post by Ross that sums it up quite well.

Originally posted by Ross 54
.... A given element has a known mixture of different isotopes, which are slightly different versions of that element. If the ratio is different, it is a strong indication that the element originated from somewhere other than Earth. The sample shows Copper 63 and Copper 65 in nearly equal amounts, differing by only about 1%. The normal Earthly proportion is 69 to 31%, respectively. The normal ratio of Iron isotopes is: Iron 56 =92%, Iron 54=6%, Iron 57= 2%. The sample shows Iron 56 and 57 in a ratio of 78 to 22 %. Iron 57 is clearly more abundant than expected. Iron 54 was not reported at all.

The significant deviations from the expected norms of these elements would indicate a extraterrestrial origin as our earthly elements have been studied exhaustively and their ratio's are well known.

Lastly, now that the origin of this object is cleared up; I would like to consider real hypothesises as getting hit by a meteorite albeit possible, would most certainly not go unnoticed causing serious harm or infection post impact. The impact itself, the force of impact could be similar to that of being shot by a small fire arm.

On a side note I attend University of Toronto, and could do some investigative work to the tests conducted at our material science lab any ideas on what I should look for and or ask to see? As seen from this snippet on the discovery channel. www.youtube.com... (4min long if you would like to watch, just briefly talks about the tests conducted on the object)

I'm posting this response blind to the content of the thread from around page 3 onwards...

I reviewed the evidence presented so far, and in light of some very knowledgeable posts in-thread, have come to some mildly uncomfortable conclusions, both in terms of the evidence presented, and in terms of my reaction to these kinds of news releases.

Firstly, to the person who posted the electron microscope image, showing the tangle of nerve and the blood platelets, thanks for making that point so early on. I wondered why we were only seeing a low-magnification image of a crystalline structure meshing with some possibly biological medium... it is clear to me that the image presented in the evidence could be that of a protrusion from the implant, surrounded by tissue - but it is equally clear that the image may in fact depict something entirely ordinary in some sort of unknown medium.

That, for me, is the 'smoking gun' that this doctor (if entirely responsible for the authorisation of the way in which his research is being presented) is being a little ambitious in reaching out and claiming that these amazing 'connect-to-nerve' properties are in fact a feature of the implants he claims to have removed.

To my mind, there are a few options as to what the truth of this matter is - and I think I should be clear and say that I do believe he has removed actual extraterrestrial implants from abductees. Unfortunately, these options (and the quagmire we find ourselves in, regarding the decision about which option is true) are a little disconcerting, possibly meaning that this case - while having genuine information and evidence to offer - will in the long run not advance the cause (of the search for a smoking gun that will be accepted by the masses). Only a couple of the options would imply fault on the part of the doctor and his team, and they may in fact imply (indirectly) that he has indeed found the proof he was seeking. I will leave the reader to determine how this is in fact the case; I think it's quite obvious. The sad part is, that even if the doctor is doing his best to present as much as possible without going over the line in the sand, the debunkers and pseudoskeptics will nail him to the wall and this case will become part of UFO folklore, while a disinfo campaign roles out over the next few months and years, drawing attention to the (merely superficially apparent) 'issues' with the veracity of his claims.

a) The doctor is a hoaxster. I don't believe this is the case, but I think that issues in the presentation of the evidence will be leapt upon by the debunkers and pseudo-skeptics and used as a means to discredit the man and all of his findings...

b) The doctor does not control the release of this information - or if he does, his editorial control is loose and weakly-enforced. I believe that this presentation may suffer from a poor choice of materials/ slack journalism. By this, I mean that someone with responsibility for preparing the release has dropped the ball and put the wrong (or unsatisfactory) images forward as 'proof of one of the genuine findings of the case. This may have occurred, for example, if the person who discovered the 'implant-to-nerve' connections under an electron microscope either did not take photographs of what was found, or that they did not - for whatever reason - release the images to the person compiling the release. If there was to be one little thing that the PTB could do to disrupt this case, and stop it from being the smoking gun it actually is, it would be to enforce the censorship of some of the 'proof images'. (And yes, such images would be considered absolute proof, if they were released with the implants to a non-government/corporate/ PTB controlled scientific community and the data could be checked and re-checked etc. Sadly, there are very few of such communities in this world - at least that have much influence)

c) The doctor does not have the money to hire or purchase the equipment/ lab time to replicate the initial findings if such disruption of the release of certain images has in fact taken place. Again - the simple act of 'national security censorship' (even though only partial, considering some of the technical reports have been released) would have the impact of damaging the doctor's position, forcing him to lose out financially - or making him look like he is hustling for donations if he turns to his supporters to finance the ongoing investigations.

d) Someone outside the control of the doctor had some sort of input into the way in which material was presented in this report. If that were the case, it could be a simple matter to find out from the doctor whether he has any actual electron microscope images that will more clearly reinforce that aspect of the research.


There are a couple of final options, now I think about it:

e) The doctor is scared to research too deeply, and as a result is being coy with the evidence to avoid opening a rabbit-hole of terrifying proportions - this is the least likely option, but it remains an option.

f) He has been threatened directly by the PTB - as a result, he himself has mildly sabotaged his own report, in order to adhere to the conditions imposed by the threat-makers... This is why I mentioned not crossing the 'line in the sand' - or as Curt Kobain once said (paraphrased), to 'sell out just enough to be able to...' in this case, present the Truth.

My overriding assumption here (if option 'f' is to be considered as the Truth) - the damning electron microscopy images, and other critical aspects of the report - such as the implants themselves or the details of the victims, were/ are being withheld either by the doctor or by someone involved in presenting the material. Can anyone confirm this or refute it - where are the implants and the images in question? Threats against the person compiling the evidence would be easier to make, as the doctor would know that these people are less likely to be missed than he, meaning the doctor might be scared to risk other people's lives/ careers by continuing his research...

It would be better to disrupt the veracity of the claims by interfering with the presentation of evidence than to completely silence the doctor's findings. If he were 'removed' and all his research was 'confiscated', then there would certainly be a leak regarding the actions taken against him - such would be the mother of all 'circumstantial proofs', that the doctor had in fact completed what he said he would - that he had found actual proof of extraterrestrial and interference in human affairs.

Not forgetting one final thought (in case it wasn't complicated enough). Extraterrestrial or Covert Terrestrial?



- To silence a group of people associated with MUFON, who are also registered as professionals with many high-profile bodies would become very messy very quickly.
- To cripple the information being released would be a much more viable solution, useful in terms of ruining his reputation and tarnishing the research as unreliable.


The problem now is trying to prove that something along the lines of options b - d has taken place. The first step would be to ask Dr Lier directly - whether any information had been withheld, either by him, or as a result of some kind of interference from other parties. If so, can he now release that info or is there some kind of risk associated with that decision?

Following this, it would be useful to know what (if anything) is required in order to finalise the actuality of the evidence in the public perception (because without access to the actual implants, or to the electron microscopy images and accompanying reports in full etc, we will not be able to prove that these reports are in fact fully true).

Threats made might disrupt any chance of getting that information/ commitment to release data from the doctor.

I suspect that a final and less reasonable explanation (second only to his being a hoaxster in terms of the kind of moral fibre it would demonstrate) is that:

g) Some of the implants he has removed have turned out to be ordinary objects, and perhaps the doctor is reluctant to do a 180 and say that he was wrong in some instances. If that is the case, then it is a matter of professional pride/ misplaced fear (a fear that if some results are proven wrong then somehow that will destroy the credibility of the whole research project).

If these final, very human problems are the actual cause of the lack of definitive imagery/ access to the implants, then he needs to wake up and realise that he is damaging his own cause.

reply to post by StargateSG7


whoa whoa dont forget what happened to

MK ULTRA
Duncan O'Finioan

when he went through an MRI !

(His Site)

16 Questions With Robert Duncan O'Finioan
Conducted by Winter Steel: May - June 2006
www.duncanofinioan.com...

2- Q. When did you first realize you were part of a "Government Project?" A. I knew something wasn't "right" from a young age. But in the late 1980s I was involved in a major car crash in which my head was nearly torn from my body. When I was placed in the MRI machine and it was turned on, the world as I knew it faded away, very painfully. The only way I can describe it is like seeing hundreds of TV screens rushing at me at once, and each screen was a different memory. I suddenly realized the nightmares I had been having for years were in fact real. During the few seconds I was in the MRI and the machine caught on fire, I began screaming, thinking I was losing my mind. Thus started my quest.

RFiD CHiP iMPLANTS MK ULTRA MUST STOP NOW!!!!.flv ( A Must See ) Clinton Apologized..


Conclusion it could be TPTB & CIA and a Higher Being were Helping them with the implants or it could be
just an back engineered Implant ? its a long Stretch

But There is alot of of branches of MK ULTRA , It Started from the Mid 50s through the late 70s Then it stopped (actually a slight pause) as they the CIA got caught as Their Victims has put them on the Spot light as they Exposed The Branches that tortured Them In 1977 a Congress Testimony They were exposed and the CIA Admitted . then it started again in the later months of 1980 I know of this as the CIA FBI ETC that come here daily in every hour know of this As they would Know who I AM

and later on President Bill Clinton made a Apology speech ..


MK-Ultra Victim Testimony A


The CIA's Project MKULTRA: Secret Human Experimentation April 1980 (video)
www.youtube.com...[



=====================================================================


Ever Seen Invaders from Mars !

Invaders from Mars (1953)
www.imdb.com...

Invader from Mars Implanter & the Implant !!! ') ''
unexplainedcinema.blogspot.com...

Implanter


Implant


Now there's a clue!!

First mind Control Movie ive Seen with Aliens like Grays Small & Tall that live in Under Ground Alien BASES that put Implants in People to control them and it was made in 1953

Kinda Sound's pretty Familiar, ? or Am i WRONG with that ?

Invaders From Mars ( 1953)

I don't need, the Smoking gun evidence of extra terrestrial life, or a UFO to land in my back yard, in fact I don't care when disclosure is going to happen or how.

All I know is that we as a human species did not start as moss or a bacterium, something made us, the proof is in our DNA. We are surrounded by proof, its just that we are blinded by our own single minded stupidity that we are superior to all living beings in the universe... pathetic really.

Well I read all 13 pages and watched the videos.

The foot doctor didnt even do the operation on the foot, so he probably didnt do the operation on the neck either, he clearly says in the first interview people come to him because they know he believes, so it makes sense he was at the other operations.

As far as a meteorite hitting you and you not knowing, even as sceptical as I am about being visited, I would put that ahead of an unknown meteor impact of miniscule proportions.

Also, the people who come to him claim to have been abducted so it would be a coincidence if everyone who came forward to have a foreign object removed from them after claiming they had been abducted had all been hit by tiny meteorites.

With the entry wounds, objects can move or maybe it was implanted under the nail.

I also recon that some abductees are mad attention seekers who after hearing about this stick some foreign object into themselves and so looking for Dr Leir hence his reported cock up on a TV i read on one page.

So has Dr Leir actually removed (or witnessed removal) a piece of rare metal containing a number of REE from several people who claim to have been abducted, or, has he never removed anything or sent anything to any lab and is a complete leir?

Well, there is no evidence to say he has lied, but loads of evidence he is telling the truth, so I put this one as Plausible and certainly not busted.Thanks to the OP

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

Wow! What an amazing analysis! I wish I could give you more stars! It's a 10/10 for you FITO!

reply to post by WideAwakeNow


Can you bring forward your proof that we were genetically engineered by Aliens(Extra-Terrestrials). Were you present at the time they were crafting us my friend? You seem to be so objective about the notion.

I think we evolved from primates they are proven to be our common ancestors through genetic and DNA evidence. Do you think that the aliens created the monkeys too?

Or second option do you think when we split off from the monkeys the Aliens raised us or genetically modified us to become humans?

I think i'll stick with the evolved from monkeys theory but to all his own.

reply to post by ai123

Thanks for clearing up what's included in those test reports, ai123! So does it mean that implant could be of extraterrestrial origin? Even if there's a 1% chance it is, then all I can say is, "Hell's bells!" Now what?

reply to post by ai123


Do you have the rest of that You-tube video it seemed very interesting and compelling ! I want to see the rest of it can you guide us to the next part(s)?

I really want to see the conclusion they came to in the video it sorta leaves you on a cliffhanger!

If Dr Leirs findings are so important why haven't they been submitted to scientific journals for peer-review? Think about it.

reply to post by cripmeister


You have a good point i think the scientific community would not shun the finding of extra-terrestrial technology. But TPTB might have a different view since it makes them look like they further have no control because it would become apparent the supposed (E.Ts) would be in charge or be able to take complete control of our society or world.

They talk about 2 billion Earths type planets existing in our galaxy and thats a conservative number. I have a thread on it in Space exploration. So why would they have such reluctance to submit this research and have it peer reviewed other than the point i made above.

FlyInTheOintment has a point that he Dr. Lier may possibly be receiving death threats from TPTB about his discovery if it turns out to be valid.

But that in turn makes me think if TPTB really didn't want this to get out because it would probably be of upmost importance to them why didn't they assassinate him instantaneously from disclosure and confiscate the technology. Makes you think whether its true or not.

I will quote from the an anonymous person who commented about the scientist who invented the first artificial leaf
"Guy better go into hiding, the oil barons will be sending out the assassins..."

Originally posted by Kaiju
I'm the opposite of the OP, to an extent. I know there are disc shaped craft flying around because I saw one fairly close up. Who manufactures and flys them? I have no idea.
But I have my doubts about this implant stuff. I just don't get why these implant always seem to come from the hands or feet. These are the areas most likely to have foreign bodies in them anyway. I would think, since they are areas with a lot of flexibility and motion, items embedded in the skin would be more likely to cause discomfort and be detectable. Why not put the implant between the shoulder blades or something. Or why not just implant it deeper, beyond the skin? And why is there not a standard spot? You would think they would pick a spot where these things would remain undetected and undisturbed.

You're thinking like a logical human would think (of course), that however is your mistake.

We are not talking about human logic, were talking about hypothetical ET logic instead. What preconceptions humanity has regarding 'standardisation' of placement may not necessarily be ET's idea of 'standard'.

Symmetry, common placement locations and other human practices, may not be an option when dealing with the technology of implantation into human beings.

One human being, although 99.999% similar to the next human being is not *exactly* the same. Human 'A', will have a different shaped body structure to human 'B'. He may be taller, shorter, heavier, lighter, wider, thinner, older or younger.

Human 'A' will have a different genetic map than human 'B' will have.

It may well turn out that the placement of implants being (in our view) 'non-standardised', has it's reasons rooted in any or all (or additional) of the differences between people including the factors mentioned above.

For all we know, the placements of implants although different among individual 'subjects', is in the ideal location for each individual, for whatever purpose they serve, whether that purpose is tracking, behavioural influence, memory suppression, real time biometric data gathering...or something completely different.

So while your reasoning is impeccable, it is only so in regard to what we know...humanity.

reply to post by MisterBurns


At the speeds at which debris can enter our atmosphere, I doubt there would be any way of surviving even a minescule impact from a meteorite. Bullets are slowpokes in comparison, and the shock of impact , no matter where on the body, would surely represent an incredible displacement of force. Just the hyrdostatic shock of such an oddly shaped object entering the body would be enough to stop the heart cold I would have thought.

The rare earth metals together in such an alloys in this piece is quite interesting, they should do further testing on it , to see if it responds in any way to radio signals , electromagnetic fields , or something of this nature.

How many cases of ET technology have you heard of being peer reviewed ?

Originally posted by XRaDiiX
But that in turn makes me think if TPTB really didn't want this to get out because it would probably be of utmost importance to them why didn't they assassinate him instantaneously from disclosure and confiscate the technology. Makes you think whether its true or not.

And that would have created a furore and forced many to dig deeper as to why he was assassinated! Because there's no smoke without fire! So the best course of action is for controlled disclosure laced with half truths! That way, the PTBs are happy and no one needs to die!

Great thread.

I question whether it's alien or not. My opinion is that this may be government created.

Open Letter On Scientific Evidence for Extraterrestrial Implants By Dr R Koontz, PhD.

Dr. Robert Koontz is a Ph.D. experimental nuclear physicist now attempting to create technology that will allow extraction of usable amounts of energy from the vacuum. This research follows the work of Nikola Tesla and Dr. Thomas Henry Moray.

Open Letter On Scientific Evidence for Extraterrestrial Implants from Dr. R. Koontz

May 26, 2009
To Whom It May Concern:

I am a Ph.D. experimental nuclear physicist, and I was once with the US Navy’s Naval Security Group. While assigned with the National Security Agency, I taught electronics related to remote intelligence gathering. My clearance is a lifetime National Security Agency Top Secret with Cryptographic Endorsement and Code-Word Access.

In the web page linked to below, I have posted news articles and background
information that substantiate my credentials.

www.doctorkoontz.com...

Regarding Whitley Streiber’s reports about alien implants and his recent interview of Dr. Roger Leir, and also regarding Whitley’s interview of an American scientist who says he was implanted with some sort of technological device, I find the evidence very compelling.

In particular, I note the reported non-terrestrial isotope ratios of the putative implant,the reported emissions of electromagnetic energy and the apparent microstructure of the possible device. This is physical evidence that has been and can be analyzed.

I also note that the interviewed scientist seems quite clear-headed and sensible. Furthermore, the scientist has demonstrable knowledge about carbon nano-tubes and appears to indeed be the scientist he claims to be.

I see no reason whatsoever to discount what these men are saying. Indeed, quite the opposite is true: My opinion is that this matter should be taken very seriously and, eventually, should be openly addressed by both federal authorities and by the public.

However, I realize that federal authorities are unlikely to openly address this matter, and my opinion is that mainstream news media will not write even a single, unbiased, article on the subject.

Nevertheless, if it is true that extraterrestrial persons are placing implants in the bodies of US citizens and US scientists, then the matter is of a national security nature that could be more serious than the threat from al-Qaeda and North Korea.

It is possible that my comments will be met with mockery and derision in some quarters. But that does not dissuade me in the least. Let the chips fall where they may. Truth is an ally; possible life on what could turn into a slave planet is not.

Sincerely,

Dr. Robert W. Koontz, Ph.D.
Web Site: www.DoctorKoontz.com...

Interesting! More spice for the broth!

Originally posted by OrionHunterX
reply to post by dereks

 

Why don't you ask Dr Leir, DPM instead? Are you implying that he is talking through his hat? If he was he would have been taken to task by these labs/Universities. Can you show me where they have denied these claims?

And check this out....

feairplane.canalblog.com...

And, if you have the time and patience...

So everyone is really out their minds! Including members of the National Press Club, The X Conference, the media etc. Move on,,,Nothing here! Case closed! Feeling better now? I am!

Well, I watched most of the vid.

At one point, he starts talking about a magnetised wooden spoon. Video please?

He also mentions that on this implant were found sodium chloride crystals. He then waxes lyrical about how crystals are found in crystal set radios. Umm, sodium chloride is simple table salt.

Basically the guy is a doctor and qualified only to remove the damned thing using a scalpel (if they had actually let him -- turns out someone else did that). He's not a scientist (his words not mine) and has no idea what he's talking about. I actually find it hard to believe a good doctor would have such a profound lack of knowledge about basic science.

I see no reason to doubt that this "implant" is part of a meteorite. How it ended up inside someone's toe is anyone's guess. But from a scientific point of view, it was the least interesting thing he mentioned in that video.