Freemasons - I have a few questions.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


John Paul II and Benedict XVI have prayed with other religious leaders on several occasions.

As for "not attempting to bring them into the Catholic fold," the same argument could be given against working at most places of employment or attending public schools.

Is the worship of Lucifer tolerated by your members?

Originally posted by jrstock
Is the worship of Lucifer tolerated by your members?

I'm not aware of any Luciferian religions in which Lucifer was the creator of the universe. Usually, he's subordinate to God, where God is the Supreme Being. So probably not, simply from a logistical standpoint.

(And, fair to say, I'm not sure ANYONE actually worships Lucifer... There are both theistic and atheistic Satanist churches... I'm just not sure I've ever actually heard of a group that explicitly worships Lucifer. (not to mention the fact that even the nomenclature of Lucifer is the equivalent of a typo in the bible...))

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
the Catholic is called to not be quiet about his belief that outside the Church there is no salvation (extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

With this and with your talk of Freemasons needing Ex-Communication you represent a fringe group of Ultra-Catholics, not mainstream Catholicism. It has always been the extremists who have a problem with Freemasonry because Freemasonry invites all Religions to participate in their gatherings.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by jrstock
Is the worship of Lucifer tolerated by your members?

I'm not aware of any Luciferian religions in which Lucifer was the creator of the universe. Usually, he's subordinate to God, where God is the Supreme Being. So probably not, simply from a logistical standpoint.

(And, fair to say, I'm not sure ANYONE actually worships Lucifer... There are both theistic and atheistic Satanist churches... I'm just not sure I've ever actually heard of a group that explicitly worships Lucifer. (not to mention the fact that even the nomenclature of Lucifer is the equivalent of a typo in the bible...))

Satanist? Is Michael Aquino a mason?

Originally posted by jrstock
Satanist? Is Michael Aquino a mason?

The questions you ask reveal that you've been reading propaganda literature. Freemasons are not concerned with Satanism or Luciferianism.

Propaganda to you, for me to understand this complex issue of occult, blood oath's, esoteric, secret society, ect. I must explore many dark avenues. I am not bias.

reply to post by jrstock


Michael Aquino is not a Mason.

Originally posted by jrstock
Propaganda to you, for me to understand this complex issue of occult, blood oath's, esoteric, secret society, ect. I must explore many dark avenues. I am not bias.

Your line of questioning is almost word-perfect for the allegations of fundamentalist anti-Masonic propogandists. I'm willing to believe that's not your intention, but you must understand that most of these questions are not new to us, and usually come from the same sources.

Yes, my line of question's have taken a different turn. The prior Q&A of other's on this thread have led me to back- track other related thread's. Following lead's. The ' Being', Creator that is God above. The One True God. Is his son Jesus also a major factor or a member-by-member basis?

Originally posted by jrstock
Satanist? Is Michael Aquino a mason?

No. He's an ATS member though. (Haven't seen him on for a while, but he used to pop in from time to time...) The LeVey Church of Satan is atheistic... they don't believe in any God, much less a devil. I'm not really familiar with Temple of Set's beliefs. I think they're generally theistic, worshiping the Egyptian god Set, but I really don't know the particulars.

I doubt very much that he'd have any interest in joining the Masons.

Originally posted by jrstock
Is his son Jesus also a major factor or a member-by-member basis?

That would be entirely member by member. There are a large number of groups who have two prerequisites in common for membership though: 1. that the member already be a Master Mason and 2. that the member be a Christian, or swear to uphold the Christian faith.

I'll never join any of those groups, because I'm not Christian, myself. But there are a lot of them.

As has been said, general Masonry accepts christians, jews, muslims and other individuals with theistic beliefs, regardless of affiliation with any organized religion.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by jrstock
Satanist? Is Michael Aquino a mason?

No. He's an ATS member though. (Haven't seen him on for a while, but he used to pop in from time to time...) The LeVey Church of Satan is atheistic... they don't believe in any God, much less a devil. I'm not really familiar with Temple of Set's beliefs. I think they're generally theistic, worshiping the Egyptian god Set, but I really don't know the particulars.

I doubt very much that he'd have any interest in joining the Masons.

Yes, I read his 4 post's. Part of the back-threading I am doing on this subject. I saw him on the talk show trail's durning the '80's.

Originally posted by SecretSky
reply to post by no1smootha

 

Thankyou for your advice. It does seem rather more compatible with my beliefs.

getreadyalready previously mentioned (I can't find the post anymore) that having a spiritual belief was necessary for guidance/instruction as a Freemason to be worthwhile.

What do you think about this no1smootha? How does continental Freemasonry differ in its instruction than regular Freemasonry?

Although I am a spiritual person and have religious belief, I think that ethical behavior is possible without such a belief. Most of us are reasonable human beings who can understand that to treat one another as we would be treated is conducive to a pleasant community. Whether we come by this knowledge as a result of the teachings of our religion, studying the philosophers or by logical deduction is of no consequence, what matters is that we continue to strive to put these lofty ideals into practice. Freemasonry is not a religion, it is a way of life, a way of thought and a way of behavior that seeks to instill in the mind the ideals of Freedom, Equality, Brotherhood, Justice and Solidarity. However, it isn't incompatible with religion and many find the lessons inculcated strengthen them with faith to trust their conscience and to comprehend our environment and also the inner self.

Originally posted by jrstock
Yes, my line of question's have taken a different turn. The prior Q&A of other's on this thread have led me to back- track other related thread's. Following lead's. The ' Being', Creator that is God above. The One True God. Is his son Jesus also a major factor or a member-by-member basis?

How did we get back to this?

What Masons call the GAOTU is not necessarily "that is God above" and he doesn't necessarily have a "son Jesus." Those are purely Christian notions, and a lot of Masons are Christians, but there are also a great number of Jews, Muslims, Gnostics, etc., etc.

I think your "back threading" has caused a relapse.

The founding fathers of the US were largely Masons, and they were also largely Deists. They identified themselves as Christians, but their beliefs were highly tolerant of other religions and highly reliant on science. My own views are probablly closest to being defined in that way. I would venture to say that a large percentage of people in Christian churches do not believe the line Josh quoted earlier, that "no one gets to the father but through me." If I am correct, and if my opinion on religion, science, and the sacred texts is actually a pretty mainstream opinion, then most of the country is closer to Deism than Christianity.

Masonry happens to be a very, very good fit for that view. A view which I held for at least 2 decades before becoming a Mason. A view that helped to construct a unique and tolerant country in the face of Religious persecution.

These are just my opinions, and the Masonic fraternity does not have a political agenda, but I think the US would be much better off if the Masonic fraternity did adopt a political agenda!

Originally posted by jrstock
Is Michael Aquino a mason?

Michael Aquino is not a Mason. He is, however, a member of this forum and has posted here on occassion.

Originally posted by jrstock
Yes, my line of question's have taken a different turn. The prior Q&A of other's on this thread have led me to back- track other related thread's. Following lead's. The ' Being', Creator that is God above. The One True God. Is his son Jesus also a major factor or a member-by-member basis?

Originally, Freemasonry was a Christian-only organization. In fact, it still is in those Grand Lodges who work in the Swedish Rite.

However, in English-speaking countries (where Grand Lodges work in the York Rite), the Christian-only requirement was removed in 1724. The reasoning behind this was that it seemed prejudicial to discriminate against Jews, as Masonic ritual is based on the Jewish scriptures.

Nevertheless, most of the invitational degrees require that those admitted be Christians (sometimes by default, as they require initiates to be Knights Templar).

Originally posted by getreadyalready
The founding fathers of the US were largely Masons, and they were also largely Deists. They identified themselves as Christians

Most Deists did not identify themselves as Christians. Some of them (like Paine and Jefferson) were openly hostile to Christianity at times.

I would venture to say that a large percentage of people in Christian churches do not believe the line Josh quoted earlier, that "no one gets to the father but through me."

I agree, but this saying of Jesus is often grossly misinterpreted by fundamentalists. After all, Jesus said "No one comes to the father but through me"....he did NOT say "No one gets to heaven unless they are Christians". Fundamentalists apparently assume that Jesus meant only Christians get to heaven, which of course is not what he said.

If I am correct, and if my opinion on religion, science, and the sacred texts is actually a pretty mainstream opinion, then most of the country is closer to Deism than Christianity.

One of the views shared by most Deists is that God is completely aloof when it comes to the state of the universe. The view is generally that God wound up the universe like a clock, and lets it run by itself without interference. Hence, I disagree that most of the country is closer to Deism, as most theists believe they can have a relationship with God.

While there have been Deists who have been Masons (Voltaire and Franklin being the most prestigious), Deism and Masonry does not always correspond well. If a Deist does not believe that God has much interest in the universe, or in human beings, there doesn't seem to be any particular reason for a person to put his trust in such a God. However, Spes mea in Deo est.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
the Catholic is called to not be quiet about his belief that outside the Church there is no salvation (extra ecclesiam nulla salus).

With this and with your talk of Freemasons needing Ex-Communication you represent a fringe group of Ultra-Catholics, not mainstream Catholicism. It has always been the extremists who have a problem with Freemasonry because Freemasonry invites all Religions to participate in their gatherings.

No, I represent a faithful Catholic who simply affirms the authority of the papacy on this matter. That's not extreme Catholicism, but just true, fundamental Catholicism (the primacy of Peter).

Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by AntoniusBlock

 

John Paul II and Benedict XVI have prayed with other religious leaders on several occasions.

As for "not attempting to bring them into the Catholic fold," the same argument could be given against working at most places of employment or attending public schools.

Yes, as they have also consistently condemned Catholics being Masons. What is your point?