Freemasons - I have a few questions.

reply to post by Masonic Light


You are correct, I should have said "some of the Masons" and not "the Masons" which would imply all of them. My apologies.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Laokin

 

Yes, he's s big jokester! Hahahaha

Were all these ex-Masons you cite 33rds? Probably not. You shouldn't equate rank with the Scottish Rite degrees. That's not how it works. The SGIG of Idaho (or any state) can go to Lodge and will only be recognized for their accomplishments in the Blue Lodge. In fact, Grand Lodge officers are usually accorded honors in the other appendant bodies while the appendant bodies only get introduced at special occasions in the Blue Lodge. Another fact is that every appendant body requires permission from the Grand Lodge to operate in that jurisdiction.  

There are several Scottish Rite Masons in my Lodge, but are neither officers nor have they achieved the title of Past Master, which in my jurisdiction is a voting member if the Grand Lodge, and unlike the top 3 Lodge officers (delegates to Grand Lodge) can vote how they feel not how the Lodge voted.

As I said before the various appendant orders may not legally operate in a jurisdiction without approval of the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge. If one is expelled membership in the Blue Lodge he is expelled in all bodies of Freemasonry.

Ones position comes from election held by the Brethren or appointment by the presiding official of the body. Even at my young age I've sat on Grand Lodge committees, and even presided as Chairman.

The 33rd degree is special in the Scottish, but it is quite an accomplishment. The York Rite has many invite only bodies that branch from it and actually outnumber in amount of degrees/orders. The AASR was actually founded by 11 York Rite Masons in Charleston, SC.

Most 33rds are just honorary ones (not to diminish their involvement) as there are only 33 active 33rds per Supreme Council (there is more than just one - each being sovereign unto itself). 

I am a member of 7 different Masonic bodies and have gone through 15 initiation ceremonies. None of these, however, make me feel superior to someone not s member of that body or even a Mason at all. And nowhere in any if these rituals, lessons, and so on of Freemasonry do we wish for world domination. I sit with many Brothers who hold positions in the Grand bodies and also at the National/International level. They give me no reason to suspect they've lied to or misled me.

I think you missed my point. I was being sarcastic as self proclaimed "Freemasons" were claiming there is no such secret information, simultaneously being non-important Masons themselves....

If it's kept a secret, and you aren't anybody who is anybody, why would you then know the secret? All this thread did was prove to me how well they indoctrinate people....

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by AntoniusBlock

 

I am a confirmed Catholic and a mason. I don't know what my standing in the church is as I haven't asked. I don't agree with most organized religions on a lot of topics, so I found myself in a void spiritually. Masonry is disliked by the church for the wrong reasons. Because it negates control, it is feared. Masonry teaches that everyone is equal, every religion, every belief. That is not conducive to making sure all the 10% goes directly to the church. I am sure I am a bit jaded on that topic and that is my problem with churches. But masonry should not be even a factor with the church as it has very little to do with it, other than reinforcing the stories that are taught in the bible. There is no worship of anything, there is no laws being broken, legal or of the church. We are not here trying to convert anyone, only to answer questions with truth rather than slander.

edit on 5-4-2011 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus has too much beer and won't share

Emphasis my own

The most fundamental reason that the Church condemns Masonry among its members is because it is directly contradictory to the Catholic faith. The sentence which I have emphasized above is in direct conflict with Catholic theology (and, indeed, all of mainline Christianity). In this regard, the Church doesn't pick on Masonry necessarily any more than it picks on other groups which contradict Catholic faith or morals.

It isn't about being close-minded. It's simply about remaining faithful to that which you believe gives you life. Your lodge wouldn't totally accept and encourage one of its members to reject fundamental tenets of Freemasonry. Why should the Church?

Now, the Church has historically spoken more about Masonry on a global level than other secret societies, but there are different reasons for this.

Son's of Belial and Law of One. Are these masonic faction's? Is James Cameron a high rank member of the mysteries? Art Bell?

reply to post by no1smootha


Thankyou for your advice. It does seem rather more compatible with my beliefs.

getreadyalready previously mentioned (I can't find the post anymore) that having a spiritual belief was necessary for guidance/instruction as a Freemason to be worthwhile.

What do you think about this no1smootha? How does continental Freemasonry differ in its instruction than regular Freemasonry?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by SecretSky

 

I won't be trying to convert you since that is one decision that only you can make and only you would know why you believe what you do. But I will leave you with this. I questioned my belief in God many times after the initial growing up and "believing" what you are supposed to believe, and I came up with a firm yes. I talk to God and he listens and sometimes talks back. Please don't ever give up searching for your truth. But none the less, as long as you are a good person, and help other when you can, you are doing what any man can in trying to leave this world better than you found it. Thanks again for such a nice thread.

Thank you for the kind words. I thank you and all the contributors.

I may have started the thread, but I think what makes it great has been the honesty and openness of everyone contributing, particularly the Freemasons here. It is fascinating to anyone interested in Freemasonry, and I believe answers a lot of questions people may have. (Myself included).

All the best to everyone, whatever you believe.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by AntoniusBlock

 

Masonry teaches that everyone is equal, every religion, every belief.

The sentence which I have emphasized above is in direct conflict with Catholic theology (and, indeed, all of mainline Christianity).

The premise is wrong here - Freemasonry does NOT teach that every religion is equal.

Freemasonry teaches that every person should follow his own religion with fervor, no matter what that religion may be. It never attempts to compare them at all, either by saying that they are equal or not.

Freemasonry teaches that a catholic should be a devout Catholic, and if he chooses to be Catholic, he should be the best Catholic that he can be.

What is expected from a Freemason is that he is tolerant of other people's beliefs (not of other religions). A Catholic Freemason has every right to believe that his path is the only path to heaven. Freemasonry would encourage such a Catholic to pursue such belief, if this is what his religion teaches.

However, a Freemason only expects such a Catholic to respect another person's right to believe something different, without trying to impose his beliefs on another.

I do not see how this conflicts with Catholicism at all.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
...
According to most accepted modern theories, the universe is finite, but expanding. This led to the Big Bang Theory: the universe evidently had a beginning at some finite point in history.

We can think of God as that which was, before the Big Bang. The technicalities of such Being are expounded in the mysteries of the Kabalah, under the names Ain, Ain Soph, and Ain Soph Aur, which are called "negative existence".

According to Martinus, everything is part of a bigger entity. Our organs are living entities that are a part of our body. Our body is a living entity that is a part of the earth. The earth is a living entity that is a part of the solar system. The solar system a part of a galaxy. Galaxy part of galaxy clusters etc. Universe is also just a part of a bigger entity according to his experiences etc. etc. etc. In fact everything is a part of one infinite entity that is God, WHICH HAS ALWAYS EXISTED. The sum of everything being God. It's just like math: you can always find a bigger number, and you can always find a smaller number. You can go up or down infinitely. Say, your liver is overburdened. It sends signals to your brain telling you that it is not feeling good because you drink to much. So you feel pain or whatever symptom is associated with this. So the human saying a prayer is the same thing: sending a signal to a higher entity.

Are you saying that you don't believe god exists after creating the big bang? =)

reply to post by pslind69


God existed Before, Now and After, but those terms don't really mean anything. Time and space have no meaning in the context of God.

We are all a part of God and God is a part of us.


This is, I believe, the point of what Freemasonry (and every other religious and esoteric tradition) is trying to tell us. There is a great book I just finished, "The God Theory", in which a lifelong scientist has proposed a scientific theory that not only explains the quantum universe, but may actually prove the existence of God.

reply to post by Laokin

Don't just brush it aside. Refute my post.

And as a Master Mason, we are entitled to all the light of Freemasonry. The Master Mason is the highest degree.

Your last post was about ex-Masons. Plus you said I was low on the totem pole, but you have yet to describe this hierarchy. I gave my response to why you are wrong on your assumptions.

reply to post by Saurus


I may have worded that wrong as far as the official teachings, but that is how I see it. I have always had a problem with assuming that only the Catholics would get in, or only the baptists, or only the Muslims. That kind of thinking seems to go directly against God. A loving God who only asks that you be a good person and believe in him. I know you could read into the passages of John and interpret it to be a Christian thing only, but I don't see it that way. And since I am talking about my personal faith, that's all that matters. There is the fundamental problem with organized religion. They are telling people what to believe. It's nobodys place to tell you what to believe, only to guide you spiritually and give advice.

As to the big 'Secret'...

It's not exclusive to Freemasons. Anyone can discover the real truth about who we are, why we are here and what happens to us when we die. You don't need a mystery school, a church or a fraternity. However, when you gather with others on the same path, searching for the same thing, it's a lot easier to understand.

People really try to overthink the 'secret' thing. It's really quite simple and it's been stated over and over again throughout history, basically:

- God (in whatever manifestation you believe) exists
- We were created by God (we are a part of God and God is a part of us)
- All of humanity is one family, brothers and sisters, children of a loving Creator
- We have a spirit which transcends physical death
- The entire point of life is altruism (love for others, love for God)

And that's it!

The hard part is believing it.

The hard part is accepting that those simple statements just because I say so.

Freemasonry is only one path where a person can seek, learn, understand and apply the Truth. There are many others.

In that context you might be able to understand why masons find theories of 'controlling the world' to be ludicrous and hilarious. To want to control others, or to control resources, or to control any aspect of this material world holds no interest to those who have discovered the Truth.

Life is not about our brief 70-or-so years in this world. Life is about letting go of your selfish desires, learning to love unconditionally, developing yourself spiritually to be selfless and to return to the eternal loving embrace of the Creator.

There is nothing to be gained by exerting control over even a single person or grain of sand on this world.



I don't expect anyone to believe me though. That is the delicious ironic icing on the cake of life. Everything that we are and everything we experience is brought about by free will. Our lives would be meaningless if we weren't granted the absolute free will to decide for ourselves what "it" is all about and act accordingly.

You don't need Freemasonry to learn the truth, but it does make it easier.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Saurus

 

I may have worded that wrong as far as the official teachings, but that is how I see it. I have always had a problem with assuming that only the Catholics would get in, or only the baptists, or only the Muslims. That kind of thinking seems to go directly against God. A loving God who only asks that you be a good person and believe in him. I know you could read into the passages of John and interpret it to be a Christian thing only, but I don't see it that way. And since I am talking about my personal faith, that's all that matters. There is the fundamental problem with organized religion. They are telling people what to believe. It's nobodys place to tell you what to believe, only to guide you spiritually and give advice.

Personally, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think most Masons do.
Perhaps this is why many see it as the official stance of Freemasonry.

reply to post by Saurus


It conflicts because the Catholic is called to not be quiet about his belief that outside the Church there is no salvation (extra ecclesiam nulla salus). This means that he cannot truly pray with others or not attempt, out of true charity, to bring them into the Church as well.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
reply to post by Saurus

 

It conflicts because the Catholic is called to not be quiet about his belief that outside the Church there is no salvation (extra ecclesiam nulla salus). This means that he cannot truly pray with others or not attempt, out of true charity, to bring them into the Church as well.

And thus wars could be fought over the interpretation of one phrase... "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

I know I'm in the minority, but I interpret that as Jesus saying he set an example, and we should live by his example. (Which is what the Masons are doing through charity, brotherly love, etc...)

Just my 2¢.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


I always thought Jesus was spending his life trying to get people to follow the word of his father. He wasn't trying to get everyone to worship him. The fact that everyone followed his teachings and eventually created a whole religion based on the same is a testament to what a great thing he did for all of us. But to jump into a belief that only a fundamentalist believer can attain everlasting life seems to go directly against the teachings of the very source of their worship. Jesus was the son of God on earth, but in life, and in death he is God. the same that all religions point to no matter what he is called. (IMHO)

Originally posted by jrstock
Son's of Belial and Law of One. Are these masonic faction's? Is James Cameron a high rank member of the mysteries? Art Bell?

Will anyone shed some light upon this?

Originally posted by jrstock
Son's of Belial and Law of One. Are these masonic faction's? Is James Cameron a high rank member of the mysteries? Art Bell?

No, no, and no.

reply to post by jrstock


I saw that earlier, but I wasn't sure what it was regarding. Was it directed to those ATS members, or is that some theory that I'm not familiar with?

ETA: ML got it!

Originally posted by KSigMason

And as a Master Mason, we are entitled to all the light of Freemasonry.

Actually, the ritual of most jurisdictions state that a Master Mason is "now about to receive all the light in Masonry that can be conferred in a Symbolic Lodge".

He is not yet entitled to all the light in Masonry that can be conferred in a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, or Consistory of Princes of the Royal Secret.