Freemasons - I have a few questions.

reply to post by Masonic Light


@MasonicLight One of the requirements for freemasonry is to have a belief in a divine being. Just curious, what religion do you consider yourself a part of? Or what Divine Being do you worship??
I ask because I am simply curious

reply to post by AntoniusBlock

And yet, they cannot give you any solid reasons for their existence or their goals. How is a group which is supposedly just for male bonding and camaraderie the most prolific and powerful man-made institution in the world?

The only answer masons usually give for their existence or goals is "we teach morality and ethics to humanity and make them better". This is their standard response to any such questions. And that is also the biggest lie they tell; society in general and various institutions of education, religions etc. in it are also teaching morality and ethics and are making people much better than what Freemasonry can ever do. And they don't use any rituals prescribed in freemasonry to do that."we make good men better" is just another lie of Freemasonry. Masonic lodges provide an excellent place for corrupt world leaders and similar other like minded people to discuss their agendas in secrecy, without worrying about anything getting leaked into the public arena.

Another excuse that Freemasons state every time you discuss with them about presence of illuminati members in freemasonry, new world order etc. is; "we are members of freemasonry so we know everything about it". This is similar as saying, that a person working in a company or a student studying in a college knows everything about what happens in administration, no person can claim to know everything about the organization which he is a part of, unless he is at the very top. And that top in freemasonry comes after the 33 degrees.

The higher degree Masons are Satanists who are hell bent on infiltrating and overtaking the Catholic Church in order to create a one world government.

Satanism is actually a science of creating mind controlled slaves, it is not related to worshipping an entity called Satan. In freemasonry, the real administrative ranks starts after the 33 degrees of freemasonry. Administrative members (illuminati) of freemasonry are satanists/mind control programmers, the rituals used in masonic initiations are designed for manipulating the mind and consciousness of it's initiates, in order to have total control over them. This is also why oaths of secrecy are so strictly adhered by Freemasons, as trauma based mind control techniques have a profound impact on the members of freemasonry. The fears of breaking such oaths of secrecy are instilled during those hypnotic rituals.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by AntoniusBlock

 

Masons will not receive Holy Communion, but they are not excommunicated. Your original statement was that they are excommunicated.

The fact that they are not permitted to receive Holy Communion is evidence that, because they have taken up a religious creed and practice which is contradictory to the Catholic faith, they incur a latae sententiae excommunication, which is automatic and incurred at the moment of the offense.

In another clarification of the Church's teaching on Masonry, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith asserted in February of 1981 that:
"1) the present canonical discipline remains in full force and has not been modified in any way;

2) consequently, neither the excommunication nor the other penalties envisaged have been abrogated;"


Also, from CatholicAnswers.com: "The Church has imposed the penalty of excommunication on Catholics who become Freemasons. The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374).

reply to post by illuminazislayer


I don't think any Mason ever said there were not plenty of other ways to learn good things. Universities, Churches, and other groups are definitely good avenues for becoming a better person. Nobody ever said Masonry was "better" than any of those other ways. In fact, if we are to "take good men" and "make them better" then we need all of those other avenues to help us find good men.

Also, "making better" is an easy and relative goal. I have been made better in thousands of ways by thousands of different people. ATS has taken a good man and made me better. My son has taken a good man and made me better. Sometimes, just witnessing another human do something that I might not have thought to do, makes me re-evaluate my actions, and makes me a better person.

That is all we seek to do. I think, I probably learned the most, and made the most significant change in myself after the Entered Apprentice lecture. I thoroughly enjoyed the Fellowcraft degree and lecture, because I am a man of science. I loved the Master Mason degree and lecture, because it helped to bring everything together, show me some history, and reallly define my obligations for me, but the most significant change in myself, came after the EA degree. I'm sure others have different experiences. Each time I attend Lodge, I learn something new from a brother.

Here is the catch. I become "better" through my interactions with people each and every day. My Masonic interactions are only 1 day per month, but I cherish that day, and I seek to connect with someone and learn something each time. There are many more days in the month where I seek to make a connection with someone, and improve myself, and it has nothing to do with Masonry.

Masonry is just one avenue, one resource, one hobby, one paradigm of thought. I love Masonry, but it doesn't define me, it is just one layer of my persona.

reply to post by AntoniusBlock

In 1974 Cardinal Seper, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, signed a document that stated, in part, that "The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith... has ruled that Canon 2335 no longer automatically bars a Catholic from membership of masonic groups... And so, a Catholic who joins the Freemasons is excommunicated only if the policies and actions of the Freemasons in his area are known to be hostile to the Church ..."

The source I lifted this from contains a long list of public persons who were both Catholics and Freemasons.

Is this web site dominated by the Masonic apparatus?

reply to post by jrstock


You'll have to be more specific. What is the "Masonic apparatus?" What do you mean by "dominated?"

As far as I know the owners are not Masons, and only a handful of the Mods are Maosns, and only a very small percentage of the registered members are Masons.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by jrstock

 

You'll have to be more specific. What is the "Masonic apparatus?" What do you mean by "dominated?"

As far as I know the owners are not Masons, and only a handful of the Mods are Maosns, and only a very small percentage of the registered members are Masons.

The question is plainly written. And your answer is clear. You do not have to ask what I mean by dominated.

reply to post by jrstock


I gave a generic answer, but I really did want clarification on "dominated" and "apparatus."

Do you mean is it lead by Masons, or did you mean is the membership heavily Masonic?

By apparatus, did you mean the morals and teachings of Masonry, or did you mean some organized Masonic entity like the Scottish Rite, or a Grand Lodge?

I wasn't being facetious, I was trying to get you an accurate answer. If my generic answer was good enough, then great.

Originally posted by jrstock
Is this web site dominated by the Masonic apparatus?

No.

reply to post by mkkkay


Which society? The general society or the Masonic one? The Masonic one is just some of the same people in the former who have an association separate from general society.

Does each of your club houses have an altar? If so, does it become tax exempt like a church?

reply to post by jrstock


The Altar does not make it Tax Exempt, our "not-for-profit" status makes us tax exempt, but the answer is yes.

Each Lodge has an Altar, and Freemasonry as a whole is tax exempt.

That status is actually very important. It is one of the reasons we are NOT a "secret society." To keep our tax exempt status, we have to operate as a 501c (3) corporations with certain filings, and a regular account of our activities, funds generated, etc.

Originally posted by The Benevolent Adversary
personally i think there is a big difference between historical freemasonry and masonry today. in the past one can clearly see that there were politics involved in freemasonry and amson were most definately involved in the workings of the world at the highest levels.

While Freemasonry was traditionally a hobby of the European nobility, the whole of history records brethren on both sides of most wars; while Masons may have been in positions of authority, country came first at any conflict.

there have been many known instances of masons being involved in things that seem obviously opposed to what mason here are posting. here are two examples. the case of daniel morgan (i hope i the name was daniel i am pretty sure about the morgan). this was the event around the 1820's that led to the formation of the largest third party in american history 'the anti-masonic party'. this case involved said morgan breaking masonics oaths and telling secrets where upon members of his lodge (including the local law enforcement) kidnapped morgan and spirited him from the county in new york where he lived to the u.s. border (with help from other lodges along the way) and he was never heard from again!

We'll never know the full truth of the (William) Morgan Affair. While your recap more or less squares with the available facts, it's important to note that the three kidnappers being Masons in no way ensured an escape from the law.

the second the peculiar events surronding the P2 lodge in italy with its involvment in banking scandels, dirty politics, mobsters and possibly murder.
now much as modern masonry seems to have changed from its early powermongering ways the P2 case means maybe not.

Propoganda Due was declared irregular (illegitimate) by the Grand Orient of Italy in 1976, a full five years before the extent of their corruption and political interference was known. Freemasonry is not a police force or a government; beyond expulsion, I'm not sure what could be expected of the GOI.

i have at least one mason who was a very good person and seems just as posters here to be an ordinary person but i believe he joined originally because it was somewhat expected in his job (he worked at rockwell).

This is what we term "mercenary motives" and "undue solicitation", and would cause a petition to be turned away.

now i am not about to say that masons control the world but there do seem to be many in highly placed positions

Such as?

and there does seem to be at least some truth to the old boy network type of thing still happening.

the point of all this being that like others have said before me i do not believe that things are alike all the way up to whatever the top of freemasonry might be.

The "top" of Freemasonry is the country or state's Grand Lodge. There is no international governing body.

i do believe that most of american masonry has been freed from things that might lurk above but i am pretty sure there are places (england and italy being two) where such a thing might not be said.

I agree; however, the thing that lurks above is human nature. I think Italy and England were (and probably still are) too populous for one Grand Lodge, and the undesirable traits in man crept into Masonry when the governing body was too busy to watch what was going on.

Originally posted by doomsdaymachine
i read in a book about cults that it was punishable by death. i guess depending on how important the secret was. maybe they don't do that now-a-days but im pretty sure they used too.

There's your trouble. You're not likely to find reliable information from a source that throws around pejoratives without bothering to check whether it's accurate.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
The vast majority of Masons believe that they are simply part of a helpful fraternity of men who espouse a largely pluralistic theology at their core.

Nope. There is no theology at our core. The vast majority of anti-Masons incorrectly believe this.

Who the Masons truly are, however, can be found in their history and their texts. The higher degree Masons are Satanists who are hell bent on infiltrating and overtaking the Catholic Church in order to create a one world government.

Care to quote the texts which state this?

This is why your local Masonic lodges have areas which are curiously absent of windows.

That an entire state recently opened for tours.

If their secrets are nothing more than hand shakes and passwords why do they need this kind of secrecy?

If your pantry has nothing more than cans and a broken toaster, why doesn't it have windows?

Many of their symbols, especially the pentagram, are direct references to Satan.

Because only Satanists use pentagrams, right?

The people on this forum are largely wise enough to see the writing on the wall as far as other secret groups are concerned, but for some reason the Masons aren't questioned, even though they have a lodge in nearly every town in the western world.

What do you mean, the Masons aren't questioned? You're new here, aren't you?

And yet, they cannot give you any solid reasons for their existence or their goals.

Actually, minus the theology part, that first sentence sounds like a pretty solid reason to exist.

[quoteHow is a group which is supposedly just for male bonding and camaraderie the most prolific and powerful man-made institution in the world?

Unless you count, of course, the Catholic Church.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
One at least has to recognize that there is a contradiction between Masonry and more traditional forms of Christianity.

On the contrary, Masonry preserved traditions of Christianity put to flight by authoritarian religious leaders.

Yes, the Masons have been trying to infiltrate the Catholic Church

Beyond encyclicals, can you show an actual example of this?

See Clement XII’s In Eminenti, Pius IX’s Quanti Cura and Leo XIII’s Humanum Genus.

I'm assuming you live in the Vatican, don't vote, never paid taxes, and went to Catholic shools your entire life. Otherwise you're in violation of at least some part of Humanum Genus.

The constant talk and praise of the "light" is quite unusual. The Light Bearer?

Yeah, who is the Light of the world, and the morning star? Those Masons can't be trusted if they're followers of That Guy.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
As Pius VIII stated, "Lying is their rule, Satan is their God, and shameful deeds their sacrifice."

I like the Catholic Church. I really do. But for this one bone of contention, I find them a remarkably good organization on the whole. So don't presume I like saying this at all:

A Catholic deriding anyone about lying, shameful deeds, or lying about shameful deeds is, in the wake of the last decade, laughably pathetic.

Originally posted by illuminazislayer
The only answer masons usually give for their existence or goals is "we teach morality and ethics to humanity and make them better". This is their standard response to any such questions. And that is also the biggest lie they tell; society in general and various institutions of education, religions etc. in it are also teaching morality and ethics and are making people much better than what Freemasonry can ever do.

So because other organizations are doing something, that means we're not?

And they don't use any rituals prescribed in freemasonry to do that."we make good men better" is just another lie of Freemasonry. Masonic lodges provide an excellent place for corrupt world leaders and similar other like minded people to discuss their agendas in secrecy, without worrying about anything getting leaked into the public arena.

Please give one concrete example of this happening.

Another excuse that Freemasons state every time you discuss with them about presence of illuminati members in freemasonry, new world order etc. is; "we are members of freemasonry so we know everything about it".

No Freemason has ever said that. We are, in fact, instructed never to assume we know everything about Freemasonry. Anti-Masons like to wave this straw man around as if finding a tiny sliver of possibility for their theories is tantamount to proving them.

And that top in freemasonry comes after the 33 degrees.

Where?

Satanism is actually a science of creating mind controlled slaves, it is not related to worshipping an entity called Satan.

Most Satanists would disagree.

In freemasonry, the real administrative ranks starts after the 33 degrees of freemasonry.

Given that 4-32 aren't part of Freemasonry, I find that hard to believe.

Administrative members (illuminati) of freemasonry are satanists/mind control programmers, the rituals used in masonic initiations are designed for manipulating the mind and consciousness of it's initiates, in order to have total control over them.

Please explain using quotes from Duncan's Ritual.

This is also why oaths of secrecy are so strictly adhered by Freemasons, as trauma based mind control techniques have a profound impact on the members of freemasonry. The fears of breaking such oaths of secrecy are instilled during those hypnotic rituals.

Once again, what element is traumatic or hypnotic?

reply to post by AntoniusBlock


There are five Masons in my lodge who are Catholics, as well as being Knights of Columbus, and still receive communion. Their monsignor is aware of their decisions to join.