Freemasons - I have a few questions.

Originally posted by jrstock
You take an oath upon death. Period. Why the secret? Why not make everyone 'better'? The 'craft', at the higher level is witch-craft. Former 32 degree member Jim Shaw wrote a book on what it IS.

That is an ancient oath, based on the parable of when people had to keep the secrets of their trade-craft to keep from becoming enslaved. At the time of that parable, it was better for one person to die, than for the entire community to become enslaved.

As for the other nonsense. No it isn't. Nothing more needs said. There are plenty of 32nd Degree Masons right here in thread that will tell you that is entirely false.

For the record, I am "only" a 3rd Degree Mason, and it has never kept me out of Grand Lodge Events, or from serving as Worshipful Master of my Lodge, or from participating in anything that Masons participate in. I have been in the Divan of the Shriners, sat in every office of my Lodge, etc., etc. I have been seated next to 33rd Degree Masons, and Grand Lodge Officers. The idea of "rank" is really kind of moot.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by SecretSky

 

LOL! Please don't take it wrong, I didn't need any physical resistance whatsoever, and nobody ever would need such a thing in a Masonic degree. It always turns out to be more funny than anything else. I was only speaking of my internal thoughts, before entering that first degree, nothing more. (You are right on about the nakedness though. My fear started when they told me to be sure and wear clean socks and underwear that night!)

Not knowing what was lying ahead, the thoughts going through my mind did include an escape plan! That is probably just me, but I don't go into any building without first knowing where the exits are, the obstructions are, the potential weapons are, and who in the room could be a potential threat. That takes all of about 10 seconds upon walking up to the building or into the room!

edit on 31-3-2011 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

Haha! The nakedness - I knew it! LOL!
and yes, the escape plan thing I relate to - I never plan to do anything bad, but wherever I go I always make a mental note of any security cameras, and exit routes. haha.

I think that in explaining your feelings of fear about the degree, you're winning the Freemasons some new fans. Discussing the personal experiences of being a mason seems really positive from what I see going on here, and very interesting and satisfying for most of us non-Freemasons in terms of new information. It just underlines the (hopefully) obvious that we're all just humans with the same feelings in the end.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by RisenAngel77
Given what is happening to the world and people linking the NWO with the mason's. What are the mason's doing to try and ease the publics view and give them clarity without revealing the secrets?

Some try to enlighten our detractors, others just ignore them. We've suffered such attacks for hundreds of years, and we're still doing ok.

If there is nothing being done, is there any plans for the future?

Since there's no centralized Masonic authority, no. A particular state might try to promote awareness through some sort of marketing campaign, but they'd only be speaking for their lodges, and not Masonry world-wide.

What is your personal view on the Federal Reserve and it's criminal actions?

A, I'm not sure what my personal view has to do with anything, and B, I'm not sure what the actions of the Federal Reserve, criminal or not, have to do with Masonry. So it's a moot point either way.

The reason I ask this, is because more and more people are having negative thoughts on secret society's and if there ever is a revolution in the U.S the masons may end up being targeted by those who blindly points fingers without knowledge.

Oh, I have no doubt they will. Hitler rounded up the Masons along side the jews. Saddam made it illegal to be a Mason in Iraq, punishable by death. Tyrants are always going to be afraid of us. It comes with the territory as long as we've taken an oath to support liberty and equality.

Thank you for answering. It is much appreciated.

On the subject of liberty and equality.

I am an honest person when it comes to outside the net. I always tell the truth even if it hurts me.

I stand by my beliefs and ignore the laws that I think are (sorry to say) bs.

Off course, I do research on said laws and try to find their justification, and so far most laws are placed mostly for greed. Because of my honesty. I know that if I am asked if I ever did drugs, I will point out that I use cannabis for a large various of reasons.
1. for autism
2. Chronic depression
3. spiritual healing
4. Mental Awareness or third eye stimulation.

and others...

My question is, would I be rejected upon saying these things or will they evaluate me based on my honesty and answers?

I know many Mason's who are open minded on the subject, however I also know they try to abide by the law. Can you give me any advice on the subject when it comes to that? Or am I on the right track with honesty and my beliefs?

Originally posted by SecretSky
It just underlines the (hopefully) obvious that we're all just humans with the same feelings in the end.

You'd be surprised... a lot of conspiracy theorists, on or off ATS, think that Masonry is all-powerful. They ask, if you're so benevolent, why haven't you stopped famine, genocide, etc??? But we're just men, with no more or less power than the next man. Some people really don't get that for some reason. No idea why... (perhaps they feel impotent in their own lives and feel like they have to blame that which they don't know...)

reply to post by RisenAngel77

My question is, would I be rejected upon saying these things or will they evaluate me based on my honesty and answers?

I know many Mason's who are open minded on the subject, however I also know they try to abide by the law. Can you give me any advice on the subject when it comes to that? Or am I on the right track with honesty and my beliefs?

In my opinion, we all make judgements based on our own experiences. Personally, I would appreciate your honesty and directness, and I see no problem with some personal usage. However, the Lodges have a high number of old men from a different era. It is likely that someone might be offended by that answer, or view you in a different stereotypical fashion than I would. It takes a unanimous yes vote to get you initiated.

The good news is, I've never heard of anyone asking that particular question.

We do a criminal background check, so a felony would rule you out. Some misdemeanors related to drugs might need explanations, but a clean record would probably keep you from having to answer anything similar to that question.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
We do a criminal background check, so a felony would rule you out. Some misdemeanors related to drugs might need explanations, but a clean record would probably keep you from having to answer anything similar to that question.

Yeah, I don't know if a misdemeanor possession charge would constitute "moral turpitude" or not. I know some members both young and old that have partaken, but I don't know if any have ever been caught and charged, or what effect it may have had on their standing. (They're all in good standing now, including at least one past master of my lodge...)

Originally posted by ILovePeace
We could debate the true nature of freemasonry for eons.. I have no intention to do so

If you want to discuss the intentions of the Masonic powers-that-be, it's incumbent upon you to establish their existence.

What you have just said is that you know 33rd degree masons as well as some 'grand masters'. I take it the grand masters are privy to more information than the 33 degree'ers?... confirming the hierarchical structure.

Grand Master is a position, not a degree, and anyone who holds the third degree, or Master Mason, may hold that position. So no, it would effectively disprove at least the most prevalent strand of the hierarchy theory.

(Also in my opinion, in the grand scheme of it 33rd and grand masters are probably nowhere near the top.)

Then, as has been asked before, provide us with a working model for the Masonic hierarchy.

You may not have worked directly for a known mason, but again, the decision to hire may have come from someone a little higher than your personal 'boss'.

It's not called the burden of could.

As for your bosses being female, I would have thought you would have been aware that there are certain sects that allow women into freemasonry

The OES does not "allow women into Freemasonry". I would have thought you would have read a source you cite; it makes several distinctions between Eastern Stars and Masons.

You say:
"I do honestly believe that the leaders at the tip top of Freemasonry hold the same morals and qualities that I do.

On a site that denies ignorance, and this is my opinion i mean no offense, that sentence is ignorant.

For someone who bases so much on "opinion", you're awfully uncharitable toward "honest belief". Especially given that the "opinion" in question is pure speculation and/or flawed research while the "honest belief" comes from a combined century of personal experience.

I'm sorry but you nor me will ever know the leaders at the 'tip top', nor the strings they pull to keep most of the world in chaos...

Despite this, you're still dead-certain they exist.

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by SecretSky
It just underlines the (hopefully) obvious that we're all just humans with the same feelings in the end.

You'd be surprised... a lot of conspiracy theorists, on or off ATS, think that Masonry is all-powerful. They ask, if you're so benevolent, why haven't you stopped famine, genocide, etc??? But we're just men, with no more or less power than the next man. Some people really don't get that for some reason. No idea why... (perhaps they feel impotent in their own lives and feel like they have to blame that which they don't know...)

edit on 2011.3.31 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)

I think that probably a lot of people spend too much time worrying about problems which might arise rather than focusing on the evidence at hand and the current situation. They then get paranoid and start jumping to conclusions with no foundation in reality. I genuinely knew almost nothing about Freemasons prior to starting this thread, other than hearing a few negative comments from people with no connection to any freemasons, and a few conspiracies from history. Thanks again for the reply

edit: when I say I knew almost nothing, I mean via contact with actual Freemasons - I'd only heard from media and second hand info.

Hi,

I also have a few questions:

Since people outside of Freemasonry knows very little about what Freemasons do - what makes them want to join in the first place? Curiosity?

Also, Since it is more a rule than an exception that people in powerful positions are Freemasons, I'm talking about Kings, Presidents etc., doesn't it make it an elitist "religion"? Why should such people specifically join Fremasonry, and not just be a Christian or whatever they were to begin with? Is it because when powerful people gather - they become more powerful? Is Freemasonry then just about having power over the world?

To me it seems like Freemasory is at the top of the "religion" heirarchy. They choose their members carefully and let other lesser religions and beliefs have all the peasants.

What are your thought on these questions/statements?

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by getreadyalready
We do a criminal background check, so a felony would rule you out. Some misdemeanors related to drugs might need explanations, but a clean record would probably keep you from having to answer anything similar to that question.

Yeah, I don't know if a misdemeanor possession charge would constitute "moral turpitude" or not. I know some members both young and old that have partaken, but I don't know if any have ever been caught and charged, or what effect it may have had on their standing. (They're all in good standing now, including at least one past master of my lodge...)

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by RisenAngel77

 

My question is, would I be rejected upon saying these things or will they evaluate me based on my honesty and answers?

I know many Mason's who are open minded on the subject, however I also know they try to abide by the law. Can you give me any advice on the subject when it comes to that? Or am I on the right track with honesty and my beliefs?

In my opinion, we all make judgements based on our own experiences. Personally, I would appreciate your honesty and directness, and I see no problem with some personal usage. However, the Lodges have a high number of old men from a different era. It is likely that someone might be offended by that answer, or view you in a different stereotypical fashion than I would. It takes a unanimous yes vote to get you initiated.

The good news is, I've never heard of anyone asking that particular question.

We do a criminal background check, so a felony would rule you out. Some misdemeanors related to drugs might need explanations, but a clean record would probably keep you from having to answer anything similar to that question.

Thank you both for answering. Gives me a bit more confidence when comes to questions. Some of my frats already know I use it and my reasoning, after some facts thrown their way they accepted it.

My reasoning as to why I want to join, is because I believe some of my internal answers is there. There is something that just keeps telling me to initiate. I am mostly waiting on bettering myself spiritually before I do send in my request. The lodge I visited was amazing. The symbols and some meanings are just beautiful and I do wish some of those meanings were taken to heart by the rest of the world.

Just a message to send out to conspiracy theorists.

Andrew Jackson declared war on the Second Bank of the United States Nicholas Biddle, head of the bank, made it clear to Jackson that he will destroy everything, he will collapse the economy, destroy the banks, ruin the people, crash the trade, and tear down the every institution of civil government he could if Jackson dared to destroy his bank. Jackson refused to back down, he tore the bank down and Biddle came through with his promise to Jackson, in 1837 a Panic occurred followed by a 5 year depression meant to convince the public that Jackson was wrong.

Andrew Jackson was a Freemason.

Another famous quote you may take to heart. And there are no truer words than these.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."

Benjamin Franklin -Freemason

These are people who fought to keep the banks away from the U.S. If you are good at making connections, you have proof right here that the Freemasons do not have a conspiracy going on.

reply to post by getreadyalready


youtube

Originally posted by pslind69
Since people outside of Freemasonry knows very little about what Freemasons do - what makes them want to join in the first place? Curiosity?

Partially. I knew a member, knew he was a good man, and he walked me through the basics...

Also, Since it is more a rule than an exception that people in powerful positions are Freemasons, I'm talking about Kings, Presidents etc., doesn't it make it an elitist "religion"?

That's a poor assumption to make. In fact, I challenge you to name 5 people currently in a "position of power" (however you care to define that yourself) who are actually Masons. The last US president who was a Mason was Gerald Ford, more than 30 years ago. Only 14 of the 44 US presidents have been masons, so that's hardly a majority. It is, in fact, less than one third.

Why should such people specifically join Fremasonry, and not just be a Christian or whatever they were to begin with? Is it because when powerful people gather - they become more powerful? Is Freemasonry then just about having power over the world?

All that is nonsense. Masonry encourages you to be an active member of your church, should you be a member of a church-going religion. It's not a substitution for religion, it's not a religion itself, it's only a fraternity.

To me it seems like Freemasory is at the top of the "religion" heirarchy. They choose their members carefully and let other lesser religions and beliefs have all the peasants.

What are your thought on these questions/statements?

It's hard to formulate a genial response to such utter nonsense. They don't "choose their members", you have to come to us to join; we're not in positions of power; we're not a religion, much less "at the top of the religion hierarchy". It's all foolishness, so I don't know what kind of response would please you.

Originally posted by pslind69
Hi,

I also have a few questions:

Since people outside of Freemasonry knows very little about what Freemasons do - what makes them want to join in the first place? Curiosity?

I would say that curiousity makes them ask questions, but not necessarily want to join. Wanting to join probably comes from the answers to those questions, and what they know about Masons they meet. Hopefully they see good things, and they want to emulate those things, or learn from those people, or just be part of that group of people. I suppose for each person the choice is for different reasons though.

Also, Since it is more a rule than an exception that people in powerful positions are Freemasons, I'm talking about Kings, Presidents etc., doesn't it make it an elitist "religion"? Why should such people specifically join Fremasonry, and not just be a Christian or whatever they were to begin with? Is it because when powerful people gather - they become more powerful? Is Freemasonry then just about having power over the world?

Honestly, I don't think any of that is correct. I think we have 13 out of 44 presidents? That is not "the rule." I have no idea how many Kings, but I bet there have been just as many kings toppled as there have been raised. Masonry is not a religion at all, but it is religious to an extent, because we require a belief in deity. It doesn't have to be any specific deity; it only has to be a deity that speaks to your morality and character.

There are plenty of poor Freemasons as well......including me! We are certainly not elites. I think the type of men that are drawn to Freemasonry also happen to be strong, confident character types, and they succeed well in leadership roles. It certainly doesn't hurt to surround yourself with other men of the same character and in similar roles, but there is no central dominion or central purpose for garnering more power.

To me it seems like Freemasory is at the top of the "religion" heirarchy. They choose their members carefully and let other lesser religions and beliefs have all the peasants.

What are your thought on these questions/statements?

I don't even fully understand the question. What are lesser religions? Geography plays a role. In Israel, most Masons are probably Jewish. Here in the South, probably mostly Baptist. In Iraq, probably mostly Muslim. That is just my guess, but there is no such thing as a "lesser" religion. I have seen Jews and Muslims both in my Lodge, but our regular members are all Christian......(except possibly me.)

Originally posted by pslind69
Since people outside of Freemasonry knows very little about what Freemasons do - what makes them want to join in the first place? Curiosity?

An admiration of the institution and a desire to be counted among its members, ideally. That's what my petition said was the only reason for joining. If you'd like a more specific answer, look at the responses to the OP.

You're operating from a flawed premise here, though. There's very little people outside Freemasonry don't know about what Freemasons do, if they've bothered to do their homework.

Also, Since it is more a rule than an exception that people in powerful positions are Freemasons, I'm talking about Kings, Presidents etc.,

That might be true for three centuries ago, but it no longer is. Only 14 presidents have been Masons, and the closest Freemason to a monarchist throne is currently 93rd in line.

doesn't it make it an elitist "religion"?

It's not any kind of religion at all.

Why should such people specifically join Fremasonry, and not just be a Christian or whatever they were to begin with?

Given, as stated, that Freemasonry isn't a religion, no one leaves their religion to join it. Given that it's largely a Western institution, most Freemasons are Freemasons and Christians. Should they leave Christianity before or after becoming a Mason, it generally will not have had anything to do with their Masonic membership.

Is it because when powerful people gather - they become more powerful?

Springing though it does from a flawed premise, this statement slightly modified might help you understand Freemasonry. When good people get together, they become better, and the world for it.

Is Freemasonry then just about having power over the world?

It'd be pretty hard to take power over the world when you can't talk about politics together.

To me it seems like Freemasory is at the top of the "religion" heirarchy. They choose their members carefully and let other lesser religions and beliefs have all the peasants.

Hopefully you realize now the faulty arguments this conclusion is built upon.

reply to post by SecretSky


After one becomes a Mason, then they can become a Shriner, and that is where the fun happens!

reply to post by boredsilly




I do readily identify myself in public. I wear a ring, I have emblems on my car and motorcycle. And I have some T-shirts that I wear in the gym or other places.

How do you identify yourself in public? Do you wear a sign around your neck with all of your personal beliefs?

I listed all of the ways we identify ourselves. Our meeting place and time. Our clothes, rings, emblems on our cars, etc.

And, does it really seem strange that trying to be a good person, would lead to more success? If that seems strange to you, then you have the answer to your struggles

let the lies from the 'freemasons' spill forth.... IT WILL BE NEVERENDING

this is going to be one very interesting thread s&f for you!!

reply to post by getreadyalready


LOL - that clip is quite insane haha. The acting is priceless though - worth watching just for 0:50 and the last 10 seconds
Not that I know much about 'Shriners', although Wikipedia indicates all members wear red fezzes. Snazzy.

Every year between 1955 and 1964 there were more than 4 million Masons in the United States*.

The US population in 1960 was about 180 million. So estimate about half that male, or 90 million. Doing the math, that puts roughly one in 20 men in the US was a Mason in the early 1960s.

Is it so hard to imagine that all things being equal, and politicians in the 60s being entirely male, that 1 in 20 politicians in the 60s were also Masons?

This isn't a sign of "the power of Masonry" or any undue control over the policial system, it's just a statistically sound estimate. So in the 60s 5% of politicians may have been Masons.

Now let's take that forward to today. Since 2007 there have been less than 1.5 million Masons in the US. The 2010 Census estimates that we're up to 307 million people in the states*. Again, cutting that in half to only account for males, and we're down to 1 in 100 men in the US being a Mason. And now days, we have more women in "positions of power" as well. So it's probably far less than 1% of "people in power" who may be Masons.