Tripoli Shock: Minders Snatch 'Rape Victim'

Originally posted by mydarkpassenger
If that woman was acting, she should get an Academy award. It's real.

it's real ???
oh you mean like this one ???



this one started the first gulf war

and it was fake.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Arent the media there under government control?

I could look at this from another view point when I posted my comments at the beginning of this topic. How come the Sky news reporter managed to get thier footage out. When we can clearly see,other reporters being attacked, ruffled up by those minders,whom supposingly did not want this footage to get out to the wider world.

Why just allow that new reporting team to break the news. When the Lybians did not want anyone to supposingly know that this is happening in Lybia.

But

On the worrying side, those waitresses, did you see how they put that jacket over that womans head,the force they used. Are they part of Gadaffe's forces also, maybe members of his army?

Victim claims Gaddafis militia humiliated and filmed her ordealLibya says it has released a woman who burst into a Tripoli hotel at the weekend to tell foreign journalists she had been raped by members of a government militia.

read from source: libya news

reply to post by Danbones

ps did you see the video posted here the other day where a dumb $$ woman went ape in a restaurant and the staff jumped her and called the cops in AMERICA

to be honest that was my first thought when i saw the media reporting on the rape victim being silenced, i have wondered also if the whole thing was set up, but there is no evidence of it that i have seen, so i am taking it as fact, i have no reason to doubt it other than usual tactics the media use, what happened with this woman was wrong.

but the thing that crossed my mind is that i have seen simular things in america, people expressing their freedom of speech only to be arrested. obviously the case in libya is wrong and people can identify that. however they seem blind and excuse it (because they disagree with them) when it happens closer to home.

just to back up my point.......




lol overkill with the gear, what were they expecting? a full scale war?



yeah it does not just happen in america, it has started to happened in most western countries, u.k., europe etc, in the last decade or so. i just find it sickening our media and governments try to condemn one country for doing what they are doing on a daily basis to, squashing dissent.

people complain about other countries doing it and are shocked, but then when it happens in the u.s. or other, it is largely ignored by the media and everybody else are like, "well hes from some group i don't like so it is o.k." or "well you don't know what happened off camera etc"...... making up excuses.

reply to post by boondock-saint



Here is herr shrub daddy, some diplomat looking tool probably at the UN, and poor traumatized "Nayirah" repeating the official scat.. I especially dig on W's feigned righteous indignation.. lol.. flailing arm of anger, furrowed brow of authority and an elevated serious voice.. ooohh, ahhh.. the finest of party leader high drama low budget acting.. bravo!! dear leader, now lets go kill some people and blow stuff up!!


www.youtube.com...

Her name wasn't being concealed to tarp over "official" bullpoop, oh no sir!!.. she was in grave danger from saddams baby killing henchmen and needed to be protected!! In the face of invading evil do'ers, this brave courageous young freedom lover had the virtue and selflessness to throw caution to the wind and volunteer to help babies.. awwwww, my eyes are tearing up with vomit.. OMG!!.. it's so sad.

reply to post by boondock-saint

it's real ???
oh you mean like this one ???

Seriously, stop comparing the two instances. It makes you look like a complete nutcase. 1- Nothing had happened to the girl testifying, she is reporting an observation. 2- I can't believe you Americans fell for that crap acting back then. 3- There is no desperation in the voice of the Kuwaiti royal, no fear. One can HEAR it's fake.

This case is DIFFERENT. There won't be any wars fought for this woman. The incubator-story is how propaganda works. It pulls on ALL your strings. "Oh no babies - they must have absolutely no morals!". When was the last time a war started because of the rape of ONE(1) woman? Women are raped on a daily basis in the US(and the rest of the world at a frightening rate), how often are incubator babies flung out of their incubators?*THINK BEFORE SPEAKING*

However, as previously stated, the tragedy COULD and most likely WILL be used to sell a bunch of newspapers and rile up some anti-gadhafi henchmen sentiment(which in this case is not that bad of a thing, looking at track records). But that's simply how the world works for now...

reply to post by GovtFlu

Someone on fire has flames, burning hair & melting flesh to bolster their credibility. This stranger has a story.

This stranger has desperation and fear in her voice. The way they treat her should tell you that her story IS credible. If not I would strongly suggest that you go out and get some people experience...this goes to the other people shouting fake as well.

I also didn't see this alleged rape victim "gagged", "beaten" or, OMG!!... "dragged off" in a spooky gaddafi rape wagon with a nefarious window tint..

I'd also suggest a visit to the optician.

It's not a "conspiracy theory" a Kuwaiti emirs daughter delivered a scripted propaganda piece.. and that govt subservient MSM lackeys dutifully reported her lies.. lies that just so happened to conveniently bolster the war monger neo-clown narrative.

See, you are on the way to be a nutcase. I didn't say that instance years ago wasn't a conspiracy, in fact - I'll agree, but THIS INSTANCE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW. It would be a conspiracy if the entire hotel was booked off by Western powers to put this in motion to get YOU, yes YOU, the insignificant pawn to support an invasion(reading between the line - that is what you are saying right?).

Thats only one example, a drop in the cesspool swamp of "official" bull# emanating from establishment sources.... trusting the MSM / Govt in search for the truth is a fools errand.

"In search for truth"...

You must also pay attention to your fellow humans, their voice, body language, their plight.

You can fight your war with the MSM but don't pretend that you know what is happening in Libya for a fact - because years ago you fell for propaganda -...that's just ignorant.

Even the Libyan government’s propaganda machine is not pushing the idea that it was staged. If they wanted to appear even less credible, then perhaps they would offer some of you lot a job. Again, a government spokesperson confirmed that they have the woman in their custody and he even defended the actions of his men.

They have claimed that she's insane and had a bit too much to drink, but even they would not go as far as to suggest that she was an actor or that it was all staged. It happened, it’s real, get over it.

Originally posted by Laurauk

And if it is proof? Will you then admit that you are wrong?

Sure, but how is it going to be proved at this point? She refused a medical exam, and hence no rape kit.

Honestly? This isnt even good propaganda. I know not everyone is good at recognizing emotion on faces, but this lady isnt even in the ball park. Her face would have to be pumped totally full of Botox for her to be experiencing fear and grief and anguish and terror and look like that.

Originally posted by Laurauk

This to me just disturbs me what has happenned to this woman.

It disturbs you that she has been paid to break into a press conference and make a scene?

reply to post by Soshh


www.philly.com...

Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim claimed in an interview with the Associated Press that the woman was a "prostitute" who refused to undergo a medical examination, and that she is now with her sister in the Libyan capital.

This was even accessible last night on other sites, but you had to go back several pages on Google search to find it. What a surprise that the version you are SUPPOSED to see has a higher search rating.

The fact that you arent seeing anything that counters her claims is purposeful.

reply to post by Aeons


No its not. I suggest you google some facial expressions. I know not everyone is a natural at reading faces, but this woman is not even in the ball park, she is really, really bad. Not to mention the whole script is really, really bad. Its not even good propaganda.

The only way her face could look like that if she were telling the truth is if she were pumped full of botox.

Not to mention you have to overlook OBVIOUS objective lies the media is making about the bruising on her face and wrists.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Sure, but how is it going to be proved at this point? She refused a medical exam, and hence no rape kit.

We do not know if she was or was not offered an examination or a rape kit,so your just speculating.

It disturbs you that she has been paid to break into a press conference and make a scene?

Yuh right have you ever seen a rape victim, and what it does to them, if not then you,have no clue what your talking about.

reply to post by Laurauk


I actually have seen someone who has been raped.

I have also seen people who were anguished for various other reasons and I am one of those people who is just naturally good at reading people. The girl who lied about the incubators was a better liar, quite frankly. Whomever is being paid to make this propaganda for Libya needs to refund the money, because they suck at it.

The only way this is even close to being passable is that,

1) Rape is such a hot issue among women a lot of men are going to be afraid to accuse her of lying, and a lot of women are going to jump to her side out of sheer emotion.

2) A lot of people already have a negative opinion of Gaddfi from his past exposures in the Western media, and so its already waaaay too easy to believe badly of him.

3) I think the propagandists count on the majority of people, even if they dont buy the horrible acting, being too afraid of the reaction of others to speak out and call bull#. If you are wrong, you might have to face condemnation if you call bull#, but if you are wrong and you believe the woman, you can just play it off by saying how sympathetic you were, and any kind person would believe her..............yadda yadda.

So in other words, the price for being wrong is higher if she really was raped and you called bull#, than the price for buying into the bull# if she turns out to be lying. But oh well. Im still calling bull#. If I am proven wrong, I will admit it.

But Im not wrong. Im just less susceptible to having my emotions manipulated than some.

And just something to remember people. Please watch this.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Soshh

 

www.philly.com...

Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim claimed in an interview with the Associated Press that the woman was a "prostitute" who refused to undergo a medical examination, and that she is now with her sister in the Libyan capital.

This was even accessible last night on other sites, but you had to go back several pages on Google search to find it. What a surprise that the version you are SUPPOSED to see has a higher search rating.

Libya: Woman allegedly raped by militia has been freed, says regime

This was right at the top of the first page when I "googled" last night, along with several other similar articles on the first page.

The fact that you arent seeing anything that counters her claims is purposeful.

Don't assume that I'm not seeing anything just because you're bad at looking. Do you believe Ibrahim then? If so, why?

Also, what is the "true" version of what happened to this woman in your opinion? Please back it up with something more substantial than your dubious knowledge of how emotions influence facial expressions.

Any Libyan in her position would be scared whether they were an actor or not, because the authorities could argue that what she did is against the law. If she wasn't scared, then she was either not being handed over to the authorities (all sides, apart from the conspiracy theorists of course, agree that she was) or it was staged by the Libyan government and she was promised immunity beforehand (which is extremely unlikely). I think that your facial expression argument is ridiculous.

reply to post by Soshh


Im glad for you? What do you want me to say?

My personal feeling is that you will support the claim that she was raped no matter what. Sometimes people support ridiculous stories for personal reasons.

So.........good for you? You are going to post over and over again that you believe it is real? Ok.

Fine by me. I disagree. She is faking it, and as ridiculous as you feel the facial expression argument is, and the lack of bruising argument is, your argument is what? That we should believe it just ..........because?

And why I believe that she refused medical treatment like the spokesperson says is that rather than going first for medical care, she just so happened to run straight to a press conference going on at some hotel? After being brutalized and raped for two days, how did she even know there was a press conference at that hotel? Or was that hotel on the way to a medical facility and she staggered in looking for water?

So rather than get medical care first, and then seek to get her story out, she just "happens" to run into a press conference where she just happens to have JUST enough time to tell what has happened to her before she is hustled out by officials.

Ok.

And I am supposed to have a hard time believing that someone who looks to me to be acting, in circumstances that are oh so convenient and totally against what most women raped for 2 days by 15 men would do, would refuse to allow a medical exam which would prove her lying?

I really dont have any problem believing she refused an exam.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I see bruising on her in that picture. And I see terror.

You can google faces all you want - real life is a much better teacher.

That you don't understand the difference between being terrorized and enacting subordination, compared to grief is quite telling.

That you don't realize that the Asch experiment is not applicable to this discussion is also. Claiming essentially that anyone who doesn't agree with *you* is just bowing to the herd. Subtle and nasty.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by Soshh

 

My personal feeling is that you will support the claim that she was raped no matter what.

Why is that? Because I don't buy into your ridiculous theories and so therefore I must believe anything that you don't? I have made it quite clear that my mind isn't made up. In my very first post for example I said that she was an "alleged rape victim" and that "she’s either an extremely emotional woman who wishes to get her story out and have a pop at the regime, or an absolutely suicidal actor." If I am supporting the claim that she was raped in the process of attacking other people's far less plausible claims, then that's fine by me, as long as you know that I don’t think that she was raped - I don't know.

I don't believe the Libyan Government when they claim that she is a drunk, insane prostitute amongst other things, I believe that this is a blatant attempt to discredit her and I don't see any reason to believe any other part of their version of events because they are not known for telling the truth. Unless I have misread, they claim to have attempted to conduct a medical examination, she refused and that is when they claim she was arrested initially, not that she refused a medical examation after she was arrested at the hotel. In any case, there is no evidence of her having refused any medical examination anywhere. It's her word against theirs and I would believe an unknown woman’s plausible argument over the opposing argument of a known liar.

I don't believe that it was staged because the alternative makes far more sense, including what the Libyan government is putting out. It says something that the Libyan government is saying one thing, the woman and her family are saying another and the theory that it was staged, if not completely out of line with either party’s version of events, must be haphazardly hammered into either argument to make any sense whatsoever and results in an extremely unlikely tale indeed. The people claiming that it was staged have not given a detailed account of what they believe actually happened and I personally can't come up with a scenario that makes sense. It's easy to claim that some unidentified sinister organisation has pulled something off without explaining how they did it, what they intended to happen or even what actually happened.

The press have been carted around Tripoli for weeks, before returning to the government-allocated Rixos al Nasr hotel. If I know where they are and you (should) know where they are, then anyone who actually lives in Tripoli should certainly know where they are. In her and her family's version of events she was held as a political prisoner, who are not protected in any way by the law and so those detaining her could do anything they wanted to her. It is not inconceivable that she was raped because as I have explained, the law in Libya effectively protects rapists and punishes victims (as if she would get anywhere with any claims of abuse in the first place) and those who have the duty of interrogating and generally mistreating political prisoners are not particularly wholesome individuals to say the least.

If she was raped, it is certainly not inconceivable that she would want to get her own back on a regime that condones her mistreatment. She can't go to the authorities, there isn't an overt opposition presence in Tripoli that she is able to join and so making damaging claims to the international press is virtually her only option left, save doing absolutely nothing.

If you want me to believe that it was staged, it would be helpful if you could now explain your version of events fully from beginning to end, as I asked you to do in my previous post, and explain what this unidentified sinister organisation's plan was and what they did to make this happen.

reply to post by Aeons


Actually Aeons, I didint mean to imply that you were just bowing to the herd. I dont think that about you at all. I think you are somewhat of a manhater, who thinks the worst of men even on a good day, and I think any possible scenario that would reinforce that belief draws you like a moth to a flame. So I am quite sure that your opinion of this womans story being true has nothing at all to do with peer pressure, and much more to do with your own psychology.


My posting of the Ashe experiment was more a reminder how propagandists try to create a false sense of a majority to bully you into overriding your own opinion. It wasnt really aimed at you at all.

I am not really concerned that you might be bullied out of your opinion, at all.

Originally posted by Soshh
It's her word against theirs and I would believe an unknown woman’s plausible argument over the opposing argument of a known liar.

But see, I feel exactly the same way, and the media IS a known liar when it comes to instigating war in the Mid East. And while her argument is plausible, her appearance and behavior do not fit with her argument.

en.wikipedia.org...

The authorized biography, I Am A Soldier Too: The Jessica Lynch Story, by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Rick Bragg states that Lynch had been raped during her captivity, based on medical records and her pattern of injuries.[20]

Lynch does not recall any sexual assault and was "adamantly opposed to including the rape claim in the book", but that Bragg wore her down and told her that "people need to know that this is what can happen to women soldiers".[21]

She denied the claims that she fought until being wounded, reporting that her weapon jammed immediately, and that she could not have done anything anyway. Interviewed by Diane Sawyer, Lynch claimed, concerning the Pentagon: "They used me to symbolize all this stuff. It's wrong. I don't know why they filmed [my rescue] or why they say these things."[30] She also stated "I did not shoot, not a round, nothing. I went down praying to my knees. And that's the last I remember." She reported being treated very well in Iraq, and that one person in the hospital even sang to her to help her feel at home.

Originally posted by Soshh
I don't believe that it was staged because the alternative makes far more sense, including what the Libyan government is putting out. It says something that the Libyan government is saying one thing, the woman and her family are saying another and the theory that it was staged, if not completely out of line with either party’s version of events, must be haphazardly hammered into either argument to make any sense whatsoever and results in an extremely unlikely tale indeed.

I dont agree. Just because the Libyans are not claiming this is not staged doesnt mean it wasnt. The two versions do not exclude each other.

Originally posted by Soshh
The people claiming that it was staged have not given a detailed account of what they believe actually happened and I personally can't come up with a scenario that makes sense.

Detailed account. She burst into the hotel and started a scene, with some rather bad acting.

Originally posted by Soshh
It's easy to claim that some unidentified sinister organisation has pulled something off without explaining how they did it, what they intended to happen or even what actually happened.

Its actually irrelevant who did it. If the claim is "this is piss poor propaganda designed to inflame public opinion further against the Libyan government" who the specific people are who orchestrated it is utterly irrelevant. Im not trying to convict a specific group of a crime. If I were it would be relevent. I am just saying that the people who have been responsible for the anti-Libya propaganda really suck at it. Because it looks fake as hell, and then I said why. Crappy acting, no bruises, etc.

Originally posted by Soshh
The press have been carted around Tripoli for weeks, before returning to the government-allocated Rixos al Nasr hotel. If I know where they are and you (should) know where they are, then anyone who actually lives in Tripoli should certainly know where they are. In her and her family's version of events she was held as a political prisoner, who are not protected in any way by the law and so those detaining her could do anything they wanted to her. It is not inconceivable that she was raped because as I have explained, the law in Libya effectively protects rapists and punishes victims (as if she would get anywhere with any claims of abuse in the first place) and those who have the duty of interrogating and generally mistreating political prisoners are not particularly wholesome individuals to say the least.

Very well informed about the details surrounding this bit of street theatre.

Originally posted by Soshh
If she was raped, it is certainly not inconceivable that she would want to get her own back on a regime that condones her mistreatment. She can't go to the authorities, there isn't an overt opposition presence in Tripoli that she is able to join and so making damaging claims to the international press is virtually her only option left, save doing absolutely nothing.

Look, Im not trying to insult your script. The storyline itself COULD in theory occur. Im just saying that I dont believe it based on her. Her appearance, her lack of bruising, her behavior, her facial expressions or lack there of, the behavior of the other people in the room, particularly the behavior of the waitstaff, who also did not believe her, obviously.............. No matter how good your storyline, it has to be implemented well, and this wasnt. Its hard on a live stage. You dont get to yell "cut" and give direction. I also think its unlikely that someone would burst into a room all dramatic after just having been freed, it WOULD be more reasonable to get medical care first, get a rape kit done. SO that you have proof to take to your international audience.

Originally posted by Soshh
If you want me to believe that it was staged, it would be helpful if you could now explain your version of events fully from beginning to end, as I asked you to do in my previous post, and explain what this unidentified sinister organisation's plan was and what they did to make this happen.

You can ask me a thousand times, and Im still not your bitch. Im not going to make up a story and speculate about things not in evidence. Because thats not what I am doing. I am judging evidence that has been presented. And I find it lacking. I have given you my reasoning on that and you are just claiming I cannot judge her facial expressions and her lack of the bruises ...............well you really dont address that. Nor do you explain the incredible lack of empathy by the wait staff and hotel security people, who should not need to participate in dragging her out, and yet they voluntarily do more to get her out of the hotel than the "government goons" do.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
You can ask me a thousand times, and Im still not your bitch.

That’s a shame. You came up with this idea that it’s all staged, yet you don’t know or can’t even imagine what actually happened, or what “they” did or how “they” did it.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
I have given you my reasoning on that and you are just claiming I cannot judge her facial expressions and her lack of the bruises ...............well you really dont address that.

You can judge her facial expressions all you like, but it is not an exact science. I’m not an expert, but I know that much. It’s certainly not enough to support fanciful theories in any convincing way.

Even if she doesn’t appear frightened or upset and most people would agree that she does, her not being genuinely frightened or upset would make no sense as I explained here:

Originally posted by Soshh
Any Libyan in her position would be scared whether they were an actor or not, because the authorities could argue that what she did is against the law. If she wasn't scared, then she was either not being handed over to the authorities (all sides, apart from the conspiracy theorists of course, agree that she was) or it was staged by the Libyan government and she was promised immunity beforehand (which is extremely unlikely).

I can see bruises in the pictures and the bruise on the left side of her face is easily visible in the videos. She also pointed to bruises and a cut on her leg, apparently, and you would expect her to have bruises elsewhere so let me know when you get hi-def pictures of her in the nude! Front and back of course.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/67f2d0ca686f.jpeg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/04568a51e265.jpeg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6f5e816a9b89.jpeg[/atsimg]

Nor do you explain the incredible lack of empathy by the wait staff and hotel security people, who should not need to participate in dragging her out, and yet they voluntarily do more to get her out of the hotel than the "government goons" do.

You do not remain dictator for over 40 years unless you have at least some people who support you and people who obey the law. They are also the only kinds of people who are likely to be allowed to work in the capital in one of the most prestigious hotels in Libya, where there also happens to be foreign journalists and film crews hanging about. They may be fishing for a reward, why not ask them? I think that their minders did more, though.