Tripoli Shock: Minders Snatch 'Rape Victim'

I saw this some hours ago on Euronews.

Here is a link to their piece with slightly different footage.

Originally posted by Blackmarketeer
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

What does that have to do with this woman's plight? Was Ray McGovern raped by capitol police? Was he held for 2 days being beaten and raped? She was, and the instant she tried to get her story out Gadhafi's security forces, the ones she claimed abducted her and raped her, attacked her and threw her into a black hood and made her disappear.

I don't even know this woman, she's a stranger with zero credibility.. if you want to make a determination based on rank hearsay.. go for it.

I listened to people like you deride saddams so called henchmen and cry "oh the inhumanity" when a woman on TV with a plight named "Nayirah".. related how she saw evil WMD addicted saddams henchmen toss babies from incubators (sniff, sniff..) it was oh so tear jerkingly sad..

Turned out she was a filthy liar & the daughter of a Kuwaiti emir, coached by a PR firm on how to act traumatized.. a ploy to stir emotions and elicit knee-jerk emotional reactions.. this reeks of the same old crap for the warmongers cause de jure.

The Kuwaiti Incubator Baby Hoax
911review.com...

You know, the people crying "western propaganda" sicken me almost as much as the bastards that did this to the woman in the news and countless others too afraid to speak out.

She's a brave woman who has probably been murdered for speaking out of line like in most countries where tyranny rules under a despotic dictator.

Lets see some of your relatives raped right in front of you and see if you call them "filthy liars spreading western propaganda".

Seriously, some of the replies to this thread have not only angered me that people could just dismiss a clearly traumatised woman and the reporters being tackled to stop the footage getting out, they've also caused a few IQ points to drop due to the sheer stupidity.

If you hate the west so much and feel it's nothing but propaganda then # off and live under Gaddafi's regime and see how long your mothers, sisters and spouses last under maniacs like this.

Have we not seen this scenario play out before? Saddam/Quadaffi are shown to be evil, mad, despotic tin-horn dictators who kill their own people, and are a threat to the whole world. In comes the allied cavalry, who end up killing and maiming far more people than the tin-horns ever did. Later, after the dust settles, and the blood seeps into the sand, they were found to be not much of a danger at all...

If you listen hard enough through the muzzle blasts and the brass rain, you can faintly hear the cash registers...

PS - I do NOT say this to excuse anything done by Saddam or Quadaffi or any other dictator.

reply to post by Romanian


WTF? What do processors and satellites have to do with raping women?

What's even sicker is the people that allowed her to be taken away... Maybe "shock and awe" is justified when it's done to this people...

reply to post by GovtFlu

I don't even know this woman, she's a stranger with zero credibility..

Really? And you watched the video? By that same reasoning a stranger on fire could scream fire, fire...and you wouldn't believe them because they are strangers with zero credibility...

if you want to make a determination based on rank hearsay.. go for it.

If you want to make a complete ass out of yourself on the internet, go right ahead...oh wait...

I listened to people like you

What the hell kind of argument is that in ANY case? Are you even capable of reasoning?

deride saddams so called henchmen and cry "oh the inhumanity" when a woman on TV with a plight named "Nayirah"..

So YOU did not see that woman, Nayirah, being gagged, beaten and dragged off in a car with tinted windows. RIGHT, I SEE HOW THE TWO OCCASIONS ARE PERFECTLY COMPARABLE.

related how she saw evil WMD addicted saddams henchmen toss babies from incubators (sniff, sniff..) it was oh so tear jerkingly sad..

Could it be that you are doing THE EXACT same thing as those you accuse? Pulling on emotional strings of readers by making them out to be idiots if they believe the woman? So sad...

Turned out she was a filthy liar & the daughter of a Kuwaiti emir, coached by a PR firm on how to act traumatized.. a ploy to stir emotions and elicit knee-jerk emotional reactions..

How you can even compare the two is beyond me. Everyone should take great notice here...too much conspiracy theory will eventually cause cognitive dissonance and this is EXACTLY what you are experiencing.

this reeks of the same old crap for the warmongers cause de jure.

I bet you didn't even watch the video. Sure, this case can be SPUN into a pro-coalition news piece, but does that make the story of the woman less true? NO, IT DOES NOT.

This woman seems very distressed and desperate , the voice and body language scream help me...and then the ganging up on her...one guy most likely whispering threats into her ear at the table - acting as if he wants to hug her - which makes her scream and resist even harder.

It is NOTHING to be put down as easily as you ignorant know-it-alls do. Go get some people experience...

So a Woman is raped by a number of Gaddafis supporters and she had 3 options.
1. go to the hospital
2. go to the police
3. go to a hotel full of foriegn media

people have to make up their own mind.
The conspiratory side of me says pure propoganda

The intellectual side of me says propoganda

the human side of me says what type of world have we allowed to be made for us.

We just has a state election, one party was handing out how to vote cards, they looked like the real deal and where handed out by people wearing the right clothes, unfortunately they where supporting the other side and the cards where in fact wrong and would have helped the other side back into power.

reply to post by munkey66

So a Woman is raped by a number of Gaddafis supporters and she had 3 options.
1. go to the hospital
2. go to the police
3. go to a hotel full of foriegn media

Can you tell me, and please do as I'm intrigued to your answer...WHAT makes YOU believe she had those three options? Are you there in Libya to know how stable the conditions for a hospital visit are? Do you think the police - on the side of the rapists - would do anything about it?

I cannot for the life of me understand why you must come up with an ignorant statement like that..."she had 3 options, dur dur"...

What the HELL man?

Originally posted by Zamini
So YOU did not see that woman, Nayirah, being gagged, beaten and dragged off in a car with tinted windows. RIGHT, I SEE HOW THE TWO OCCASIONS ARE PERFECTLY COMPARABLE.

I saw a man putting his hand over her mouth (or at least trying it) three times, I saw a woman trying to cover her head with some cloth twice but I didn't saw her being beaten.

At what time in the video does that happen?

reply to post by Zamini


we all have options and it would be ignorant to think we don't.

Why would his men rape a woman outside a hotel full of foreign media.?

Sorry to be blunt and yes I know what I am talking about, rape victims don't tend to look for film crews, they are embarrased and scared and want to get to somewhere safe like a police station or home.

False flags dont just have to involve blowing up of ships or burning down buildings, the media is played like a cheap fiddle in the world of global propoganda when ity comes to oil rich countries.

reply to post by munkey66

we all have options and it would be ignorant to think we don't.

Bla bla, Generic statement leading into nonsensical post bla bla.

Why would his men rape a woman outside a hotel full of foreign media.?

And now you also seem to know WHERE it happened.

Sorry to be blunt and yes I know what I am talking about, rape victims don't tend to look for film crews, they are embarrased and scared and want to get to somewhere safe like a police station or home.

Erm...NO. You do NOT know what you are talking about. What you are talking about are people who have become victim to rape at the hand of familiar people. They indeed, in most cases, say nothing. But LOOK at the woman. This might have been her ONLY chance of sharing her story with ANYONE...

False flags dont just have to involve blowing up of ships or burning down buildings, the media is played like a cheap fiddle in the world of global propoganda when ity comes to oil rich countries.

Look...a woman can be raped and tell her story - that is not propaganda. However, the way her story might be spun by news agencies CAN be propaganda. You lot trying to discredit a woman in that desperate of a state is just disgusting to the fullest extent of the word.

What's next? Western journalists booked the entire hotel, hired middle-eastern looking actors to set this all in play just so the ignorant, insignificant pawn half the globe away, can be swayed into war? REALLY?

reply to post by ArMaP

I saw a man putting his hand over her mouth (or at least trying it) three times, I saw a woman trying to cover her head with some cloth twice but I didn't saw her being beaten.

At what time in the video does that happen?

Probably sometime when the camera is panned away. Most likely out of sight of the camera. Most definately in the car or after she got out. But it's not the beating that's the worst thing that is happening to her...it's preventing her from speaking and saying what happened to her.

Psychological pressure will shut up a lot of people, but not all. That is what we are seeing here.

Originally posted by Zamini
Probably sometime when the camera is panned away. Most likely out of sight of the camera. Most definately in the car or after she got out.

So, does that mean that you mixed what she said and what we could see with som speculation from you?

Isn't that also a way of applying some "psychological pressure" to those reading your post?

But it's not the beating that's the worst thing that is happening to her...it's preventing her from speaking and saying what happened to her.

Obviously, because you don't know if she was beaten on that occasion, do you?

Don't get me wrong, I think that what we saw on the videos is most likely to be truth than propaganda, and living in a country that had a 48 years long (from those I lived through 11) dictatorship, so I now how those systems work, but precisely because of that I also know that we should stick to what we really know and can prove.

reply to post by ArMaP

So, does that mean that you mixed what she said and what we could see with som speculation from you?

Absolutely not. You have to take a look at 1- what is going on 2-the people dealing with here 3-her state of being 4-what is she saying...

Isn't that also a way of applying some "psychological pressure" to those reading your post?

In some way, everything is psychological pressure. But I'm sure not doing it with that intent, rather, to clearly make a distinction to show that not all posters in this topic are conspiracy nutcases. Usually I have no urge to do this but to see this womans cries be turned into some bullcrap theory is, simply put, aking to protecting rapists and that's simply disgusting. These things happen and just because some cushioned youth in American suburbs thinks it's propaganda....

Obviously, because you don't know if she was beaten on that occasion, do you?

You and I seem to have different definitions of beating...would you say the choking her with that jacket was not part of a beating that most likely continued elsewhere? Silly me...of course it wasn't a beating it was a choking!

Don't get me wrong, I think that what we saw on the videos is most likely to be truth than propaganda, and living in a country that had a 48 years long (from those I lived through 11) dictatorship, so I now how those systems work, but precisely because of that I also know that we should stick to what we really know and can prove.

Excuse my french but that's bullcrap logic. Sure, stick to what you know and can prove...that's exactly the same logic the countless talking heads used when it came to the genocide in Rwanda - to save their own behind(sound familiar?). Sometimes when you see things like this, the best bet to make is that there is something seriously wrong going on, and just because you define beating by punching someone and you don't SEE a punch, doesn't mean that there wasn't a jab...a stab...a choke...etc.

Or is it an Israeli spy trying to destabalize Libya some more?....

Wow....tough call here.
What would Hotel staff do if a woman in a NYC hotel suddenly started screaming?
They would throw her out (especially in swanky hotel like this one)
I could not make out any cuts or bruises on her face.
Rape is usually accompanied by other physical violence.
Why was she allowed to continue talking while they dragged her away?
Why was she walking and barely resisting if at all before being put in a car?
Also, how do we know any of these people were Ghaddafi's "minders" or "security forces"?
Fact is, we simply do not know nor can we find a definitive answer.

These are the questions I would like answers to.
It is impossible to make a judgement here with just a few minutes of video.
What I hate most about this is not feeling like I can't trust my instincts or empathy.

Am I a monster or just being intelligent for ignoring my feelings in trying to discover the truth of what actually happened?

It’s awfully fun to be cynical when it’s an article that you don’t like because it makes a non-Western government look bad, for a change, but in this case the Libyan government have confirmed that this happened and that they have the woman in their custody. They said that they would investigate it "properly" - not by their standards, then. Let's hope that her fame keeps her safe, if she's still alive that is.

Originally posted by munkey66
So a Woman is raped by a number of Gaddafis supporters and she had 3 options.
1. go to the hospital
2. go to the police
3. go to a hotel full of foriegn media

people have to make up their own mind.
The conspiratory side of me says pure propoganda

The intellectual side of me says propoganda

You don't have to put a lot of spin on a video showing an alleged rape victim being hauled off by some goons and it is impossible to present the story without it emotionally affecting anyone. It's propaganda, by the way.

She could have gone to the hospital first, but she could have come from there. The police are the last people that she'd go to. Firstly because rapists are rarely punished because the sexual/domestic violence laws are pathetic. Rape victims seeking justice tend to get charged with having extra-marital sex and sent to one of Libya’s famous “social rehabilitation centres” where she can expect more of the same or a pretty horrific experience at the very least. If she's incredibly lucky then the rapist(s?) will be forced to marry her as punishment instead.

She’s either an extremely emotional woman who wishes to get her story out and have a pop at the regime, or an absolutely suicidal actor. Either way, unless due to her fame she is released to the press cue fanfares and confetti, she does not have a bright future ahead of her.

In Libya, “tarnishing the country’s reputation or undermining confidence in it abroad” will get you life imprisonment. Not to mention speaking against Gaddafi and showing dissent publically and to the international press. If they decide that she's acting in support of an anti-Gaddafi organisation then she's likely to be executed, as this carries the death penalty. Every Libyan is well aware of this.

Including two cameramen shooting from two angles i count a total of 13 video and still cameras in the hands of male western journalists , who did sweet fu*k all . Absolute cowardice . 1 female and one male journalist did follow the goons out to the cars as she was being kidnapped again . No way she was acting or faking . With half a brain no one would walk into a crowd of Gadaffis henchmen and accuse them and the emotion is very real .

The henchmen , most of them can speak English , that's why they are minding the journalists and if the journalists didn't have the nuts to fight they all should have put the cameras on the thugs and told them that they'll hang from a tree for war crimes and crimes against humanity as soon as their boss is taken care of and they have the photographc evidence of who all of them are . Scream at the barbarians that if one hair is harmed on that womans head they will die for their crimes .

I don't understand people . They knew she had been gang raped and now being dragged off , probably for it to happen again before she's executed and nobody fought to save her . Not the job of a journalist ? When you're there you're a participant not just an observer and being a human being you are obliged to fight to help and save that woman and any woman in a similar situation .

They could have over powered some or most of the minders , grabbed the concealed guns and not let with women be taken by the secret police . Absolutely disgraceful . No difference here , sadly . If a people hear a woman screeming behind the bushes or down an ally folks will quickly walk away . Cowards .

Originally posted by Zamini
You and I seem to have different definitions of beating...would you say the choking her with that jacket was not part of a beating that most likely continued elsewhere? Silly me...of course it wasn't a beating it was a choking!

Maybe we also have different definitions of "choking", what are you calling "choking"?

Excuse my french but that's bullcrap logic. Sure, stick to what you know and can prove...that's exactly the same logic the countless talking heads used when it came to the genocide in Rwanda - to save their own behind(sound familiar?).

That's my way of doing things, I always give precedence to things that can be proven. In the Rwanda case there were proofs of genocide, in Libya we have many proofs of human rights abuse, but in these videos we do not have any proof that what the woman says is true, in the same way we do not have any proof that it's just propaganda.

Sometimes when you see things like this, the best bet to make is that there is something seriously wrong going on, and just because you define beating by punching someone and you don't SEE a punch, doesn't mean that there wasn't a jab...a stab...a choke...etc.

I don't see a punch, a jab, a stab or a choke (or at least my definitions of those words).

Show me where, in the video, the woman was jabbed, stabbed or choked

Or is it an Israeli spy trying to destabalize Libya some more?....

From what we can see in the video it can be anything, including a Libyan woman that was arrested and raped by the regime's forces.

Originally posted by munkey66
Why would his men rape a woman outside a hotel full of foreign media.?

She was supposedly held somewhere for two days and raped by 15 men, it's not supposed to have happen in that place at (or near) that time.