OMG! FYI, the OED is like all TMI. Can we still be BFF? LOL.

I think short hand has its place in the world but not in face to face conversation. I find it to be insulting when someone talks to me and uses abbreviations rather than words.

I also believe that a lot of the time emotions get lost in translation in text messaging. I've had my share of misunderstandings with friends thanks to text messaging and short hand.

Language is evolving, much like it has since humans started talking.

I predict in 50 years time we will be able to communicate a large section of text in just one sentence.

Great post. Pretty ridiculous, eh? Not sure about you all, but I most definitely saw this coming. However, you can all stop posting abbreviations now. It was pretty funny in the title, but it stopped there. Twelve pages of people crackin' the same joke is flat out sad. Stop it. This isn't the Aristocrats.


Cheers,
Strype

I think part of the problem people have with this (myself included), is the perception that this isn't evolution of language, but is instead a quantum leap. Instead of a few words here and there, it seems as if a whole new language has been invented overnight using English as it's base.

One of the other problems I have with some text speak is the lack of vowels. I'm sorry, but while reading I need a few vowels! Lol I can handle, but srsly (?), brb (be right back?). There is no flow or rhythm for me. I agree that this could have a terrible effect upon poetry and music if it gains a wider following.

IGIJAOC (I guess I'm just an old coot).

BTW (sorry couldn't help it) thanks for the definition of "orly".
Edit to add: The one I currently hate the most is "L8tr"

I've been trying to cut down on the chat speak and internet language for awhile now, and I go out of my own way to use proper grammar and punctuation (unless there is a REAL good "LOL" that'll come out of it). The reason is because it's becoming increasingly abhorrent to me. When someone I'm talking with can't take the diligence to properly type their sentences out, my mental image of that person becomes that of a lazy guy/gal who has a short attention span. Not to mention the fact that it's difficult to understand someone who is typing as if he only has a cell phones' worth of buttons to do so. I don't take anyone who writes like that seriously nor do I expect to be taken seriously if I do.

I like to do what I do professionally, and "LOL" and "OMG" are not professional. At least not in this current (professional) society. I hope it stays this way. I would go insane if my boss started talking to me like a typical high school girl.

reply to post by Mr Objectivity


No, there is no such thing as evolution. Anyone can tell just by looking at our language that it was intelligently designed, in 5 days, just 97 years ago.

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by orangetom1999

What also concerns me as well as the deterioration of the language ability is the deterioration of real life experiences and knowledge.

For many years now I have noticed people around me describing a moral concept or idea in terms of some movie they watched or a television program. It took me some time to get the pulse before I was able to narrow it down. What I concluded was that so many have no real life experiences of their own. Their thoughts are someone else's thoughts. Their emotions someone else's emotions. Their experiences second hand vicarious from television and movies.

Hmmm. I grew up on a farm, went to a one-room school with a library the size of a closet. Read everything in it a hundred times before I hit Grade 4 (skipped Grade 3). Didn't experience much besides reading til I was in my '20's.

And I still talk and write like a book written by a schiz.

Do you really think that's better? Why? ...Honestly interested in what you have to say.

Soficrow,

I almost missed your post back on page 9 of this thread. If you read everything in the closet sized library of your school..I would say you read more books than do most whom are adults today.

So you think you talk and write like a schiz. Do you carry on with thoughts and emotions of someone else..like so many movie and television "Watchers" of today. You do not come across in this manner.
Most peoples of today spend most of their youthful influential years in front of a television or movie screen and public education has for all purposes become a television/movie education.

I would be more concerned if my writing, thinking, and emotions are all television/movie reflections..meaning no individual thinking going on. Just xerox copies of what we see from an artificial medium.

I was told by an educator many years ago that people of today have gelled down to a vocabulary consisting of some 1000 to 1200 words and most of them four letter words. In years past..educated peoples had a vocabulary of some 4000 to 4500 words and most of them not four letter.

And now to keep up with the speed of life..and technology we are going to de evolve to techno speak...to fit our lives into the speed of technology. To me this is technology running us..not us running the technology.

In like manner to me of people who do not know what to do with themselves if the electricity goes out. They dont know how to do a manual overide.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by Crakeur

 

Can we add "Fubar" to that too

Actually I did not know what Snafu was until about 5 years ago!

Military acronyms both, and in use for fifty or more years.

Wait, are you telling me that morons actually SAY this stuff out loud? Someone will actually SAY "Oh em gee" instead of oh my god? They will SAY "ell oh ell" instead of actually laughing? HOW is that some form of "evolution of language"?

I guess it just shows I'm getting old when I start thinking the kids these days are bunch of idiots.

Originally posted by Enderdog

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by Crakeur

 

Can we add "Fubar" to that too

Actually I did not know what Snafu was until about 5 years ago!

Military acronyms both, and in use for fifty or more years.

I did my time in the military. Dont care to live and think that lifestyle. I got very tired of living out of a suitcase..no roots.

Thanks,
Orangetom

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I'm more worried about people not reading books anymore.
They don't have the attention span required.
You ain't seen bad yet!

I think the loss of attention span translates, academically, to people learning only the most precursory and superficial information on any given subject. People's attention today is more divided than ever so I believe people's working knowledge of the world will proportionately become both wider and shallower. And this will get worse.

Reading an entire book is becoming nearly unfathomable! What modern person can possibly spend that much time reading about one idea? It's as if any idea that can't be expressed in one sentence will be lost. This has even more alarming long-term ramifications than the much-bemoaned News sound-bites.

all this acronym and shortened word usage reminds me of the William Steig books c d b and c d c

www.amazon.com...

reply to post by Asktheanimals


The text language fits its medium, if a person is all thumbs. I totally agree that people don't read anymore, and that is a crying shame. My kid is a student at a prominent private college (for which tuition was awarded in a full ride scholarhip, I am by no means wealthy enough to afford it), and lives in an apt level with and right next to an elevated train track.

I was visiting/helping with the move into this apt last year, and both my kid and the helping kid were sitting there while I looked at them, visiting from 600 miles away, texting. Sitting next to one another in an empty room with a parent there watching them text to others unseen and unknown. Furthermore, they may have been texting ABOUT one another, i.e. "snarking", or even about me. I find texting when among acquaintances, friends, or family highly offensive, but then I have always been somewhat suspicious of what people are saying when they suddenly shut up as I walk into a room....haven't we all?

Anyway:

I said, "Excuse me, but, um, I don't have any invisible friends here at the moment, may I have your attention as my hosts?"
This initally got a 'whatever' response, but I insisted.
Over the next few hours we discussed at length the poor manners of a host or guest texting rather than attending fully the host or guest sitting physically in the room. I think it's appalling, and I said so. Longer story available on request, but in the end we agreed on...

"The Train Rule."
The only time texting was allowed while I was present was when the train went by, because ONLY THEN was it TOO LOUD to speak and be heard. The rest of the time, those present were fully present and expected to be engaged in actual conversation, either contributing or listening.

The Train Rule..I loved it. The sad part is, these kids realize their communication skills are being limited and that active listening is no longer the norm. I am a writer, I love to read, and I think it's sad that "tweeting" has become the way people exchange ideas and thoughts. Furthermore, I do not feel I am getting through to someone who is staring at a phone while I am speaking. So, when I see someone do that, I simply become silent until they notice. (IF they notice)...he he
Just my opinion, I'm rather "old school."

Maybe I'm getting old but I refuse to abbreviate even when sending a text, I'll throw in an lol from time to time but that's the extent of it. Occasionally my younger siblings and even some friends who like to think they're still in their early twenties will try to make fun of me, funny thing is their spelling is for crap and I can't help but think it's got a lot to do with years of using shortcuts. Ah, the times they are a changing.

Ugh, the dumbing down of society. Has anyone seen the movie 'Idiocracy'? I'm pretty sure this is how it starts. At my job I have several younger people working under me and they say 'j/k' or 'omg' all the time like it's normal speech. Why say 'omg'? It's the exact same number of syllables as 'oh my god', it takes the same effort.

Posts here are funny, thoughtful, informed. I'm impressed - and thinking. Initially, I found the source article amusing and just wanted to share it - yes, I recognized the issue was big, but no, I didn't realize how big.

FOR THE RECORD: I do NOT think ATS rules should change to allow netspeak initializations in our news and other fora. I DO think the process of developing and communicating ideas, in detail, facilitates the learning process - paramount if we are serious about denying ignorance.

However, I also think initializations are becoming a real language - most akin to mathematical communications: an efficient hybrid, and equally impenetrable for many of us. ...Simply because initializations are becoming a legitimate, international language (arguably) - I suspect it may be time for another ATS experiment.

How about a Texting Forum?

One where members may address any topic they like in netspeak initializations? ...It may be that initializations accelerate the thinking and analytic processes, or conversely, the language might preclude the development and communication of complex ideas. Why don't we find out? ...The experiment might require a sister "translation" forum, and a dictionary link, but imho, that would work too.

Worth discussing?

The following post might be the best description of the initialization language on this thread, and of it's rationale and role in contemporary society:

reply to post by Doyder

I learned shorthand by playing World of Warcraft. The learning curve of the game is quite steep. Some of the greatest challenges happened to be: multi-tasking, the number of keys and combinations used, and player language. At first I didn't know what anyone was talking about because everyone used shorthand, but YOU HAVE TO. It is nearly impossible to communicate a concept to other players while controlling your character with a million key-binds. Everything is fast! If I didn't understand an abbreviation in a message from another player, all I would have to do is ask. After a little while, I was able to understand new phrases without asking. It's actually pretty interesting, and I haven't really thought about it until now.

Wouldn't you say our lives have become chaotic and fast paced due to technology in general? If I wasn't able to juggle a seemingly impossible number of tasks on a daily basis, I would feel like I fell off the wagon. The same principle applies to shorthand, in a way. You either learn it, or you fall behind.

I use some of the shorthand I acquired while playing WoW when I text, as I am a very busy person. I am so busy these days that I don't even have time to play. If I use an abbreviation in a text that a friend does not understand, they will ask, and then I find that they will start using it, too. My texts aren't riddled with shorthand, but it gets the job done efficiently. Just like in the game.

While I don't think shorthand should replace everyday language while speaking, it doesn't bother me when somebody else inserts a word here and there. I can deduce what they mean when they say lol by the way it is pronounced. The main thing is that we both understand what is being communicated. I also understand that some of these words are nothing more than a fad. Just like any new term "those darn kids are using these days," some will stick while others fade. However, there is no excuse for using shorthand in an English assignment. English class teaches us how to create whole sentences. Learn to walk before you run.

Like it or hate it, shorthand is here. Why limit yourself by remaining ignorant of the dialect because you find it unintelligible?

CAUTIONARY NOTE: I confess I personally do NOT want to see ATS facilitate the establishment of yet another elitist closed shop - and language always is the gatekeeper. (Welcome to Babylon.) Moreover, I also suspect there is a danger such a forum might accommodate "terrorist codespeak," just because it already IS a kind of code - but I doubt the opportunity and danger would be any greater than it already is.

Off the top of my head,

reply to post by Mr Objectivity

Not really a good thing. I collect old dictionaries and the lack of definitions and words in our newer dictionaries is appalling - which is why I started collecting old ones. We are being dumbed down and taught NOT to be able to differentiate and discern the world around us, thus resulting in an ape-like language that is devolving, along with our intelligence - not increasing in sophistication or complexity. So, go ahead, become a string of nonsensical letters. And I hope you enjoy using your stripped branch to stick inside anthills and lick off the ants - just like our chimp brothers do.

Well I couldn't care less, or should that be I COULD care less???
Yes they say that language is organic, and constantly changing. The problem with that is that if a majority start speaking a language incorrectly or wrongly it becomes correct and right.
The could care less above is a great example, could and couldn't are the opposite of each other and yet some people use the expression as if it means the same thing.
It used to be considered wrong, but a lot of people in the US now say 'I could care' less so now its seen as ok.

Originally posted by orangetom1999

Originally posted by soficrow

Originally posted by orangetom1999

What also concerns me as well as the deterioration of the language ability is the deterioration of real life experiences and knowledge.

For many years now I have noticed people around me describing a moral concept or idea in terms of some movie they watched or a television program. It took me some time to get the pulse before I was able to narrow it down. What I concluded was that so many have no real life experiences of their own. Their thoughts are someone else's thoughts. Their emotions someone else's emotions. Their experiences second hand vicarious from television and movies.

Hmmm. I grew up on a farm, went to a one-room school with a library the size of a closet. Read everything in it a hundred times before I hit Grade 4 (skipped Grade 3). Didn't experience much besides reading til I was in my '20's.

And I still talk and write like a book written by a schiz.

Do you really think that's better? Why? ...Honestly interested in what you have to say.

Soficrow,

...If you read everything in the closet sized library of your school..I would say you read more books than do most whom are adults today.

Unfortunately.

So you think you talk and write like a schiz.

No - I said "like a book written by a schiz." It's different.

Truth is, a love of books and "book learning" result in a "lack of socialization," diminished social skills, and often, social isolation. At it's best, communication media promote learning AND socialization. A different kind, granted, but I think the jury's still out.

Do you carry on with thoughts and emotions of someone else..like so many movie and television "Watchers" of today. You do not come across in this manner.

I'm glad I don't. But the fact is, most of my life "experiences" were totally vicarious 'til later in life, and my thoughts and emotions were largely derived from others' experiences communicated via books, and processed through my imagination.

I was my generation's version of a "geek," and now I've gone back to my roots.

These days, I relate best to Reich's character on Bones - neighbors and friends compare me to her - and I sometimes wonder if I have undiagnosed Asberger's (complicated by early dementia). lol

My point is - every individual and generation works with the tools at hand. Expect miracles.

Most peoples of today spend most of their youthful influential years in front of a television or movie screen and public education has for all purposes become a television/movie education.

Unfortunately and detrimentally.

...I was told by an educator many years ago that people of today have gelled down to a vocabulary consisting of some 1000 to 1200 words and most of them four letter words. In years past..educated peoples had a vocabulary of some 4000 to 4500 words and most of them not four letter.

I recall a news article criticizing one of Obama's speeches on the grounds that it used a Grade 9 vocabulary instead of a Grade 4 one. Sad.

But this is one reason I see ATS as playing an essential role in our society - encouraging people to communicate, think, communicate, rethink.

And now to keep up with the speed of life..and technology we are going to de evolve to techno speak...to fit our lives into the speed of technology.

Not sure it's a devolution. The jury is still out methinks.

To me this is technology running us..not us running the technology.

Transitions and population control - but you are not factoring in the vaunted human spirit.


Thanks, sofi

reply to post by Crakeur


You can't stop the masses from using more and more of this. How about this for a solution. Code the site with a small popup that explains acronyms when you put your cursor on top of them or something?